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Posted: 5/19/2020 11:27:09 PM EDT
[#1]
I honestly tried to take him seriously...at least give him a chance...while some may be..and I’ll admit, speaking of sex,drugs etc...not all rock and roll is satanic. Now the fact that he seems to strongly dislike the Beatles is a major plus in my eyes...what he said about them is true. And some of his points may be true, but honestly it comes across like a high school debater. I say that because I wrote the same way in high school. I can give you country songs and pop songs with just as suggestive language. As I have matured, I have changed what I will listen to..no more highway to Hell by AC/DC.. and honestly my music taste span a great deal of eras and styles..jazz and big band, classic country, classic rock , heavy metal. As to rock stars having a captivating effect on the listeners, so do actors etc..does that mean that tv shows are satanic? It is a broad brush that he is painting with. While I’m sure that some are, not all are. The Beatles? Definitely music from hell.
music from hell. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 12:19:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KD5TXX: I honestly tried to take him seriously...at least give him a chance...while some may be..and I’ll admit, speaking of sex,drugs etc...not all rock and roll is satanic. Now the fact that he seems to strongly dislike the Beatles is a major plus in my eyes...what he said about them is true. And some of his points may be true, but honestly it comes across like a high school debater. I say that because I wrote the same way in high school. I can give you country songs and pop songs with just as suggestive language. As I have matured, I have changed what I will listen to..no more highway to Hell by AC/DC.. and honestly my music taste span a great deal of eras and styles..jazz and big band, classic country, classic rock , heavy metal. As to rock stars having a captivating effect on the listeners, so do actors etc..does that mean that tv shows are satanic? It is a broad brush that he is painting with. While I’m sure that some are, not all are. The Beatles? Definitely music from hell. music from hell. What do you really think of the Beatles though?  To be clear, I am not proposing that rock and roll is evil per se. Also, the lyrics were not my primary focus although they are certainly relevant. I agree that other music genres have horrible lyrics too. Conversely, there is Christian rock, where lyrics are at least well intended. I was more curious about the music itself. The way I heard a priest describe it is that music where rhythm dominates over melody has a higher chance of stirring emotions, changing moods, and affecting ideas; therefore, he suggested that rock and metal are either to be avoided or approached carefully. Personally, I don't know enough about the composition of music to make a statement either way, hence this thread. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 12:44:15 AM EDT
[#3]
I grew up in a Baptist environment where there was an extreme focus on extra biblical personal standards which was used for control over children and church membership, not as a way to become more Christ like.
Where every personal preference of the pastoral staff was supported with incredibly weak hand picked scripture to support it. Where the music leaders stuffed this crap down our throats while taking about the sexuality and sensuality of music, while coming across as the creepiest sex crazed perverted old couple interacting with teenagers. You can hold whatever personal standards you want for your own personal conduct. But you can't elevate it to scripture. Anyone can twist scripture to support their extra biblical positions. And honestly, I resent having to grow up in that environment. And while I'm still a born again Christian who believes the Bible, my resentment of such obvious cult like behavior has made me seriously question pretty much all of my faith. I read stuff constantly about why the youth leave the church. I can tell you why almost my entire Christian high school class doesn't care much anymore, or why most all of my Christian college friends (in both cases very observant devout groups) left. It was the focus on cult like personal standards decided on by control focused traditional pastors. Once you realize that they're full of crap about music, alcohol, inter-personal relationships, etc... Why would any of us trust any of their theology? |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:24:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TCBA_Joe: I grew up in a Baptist environment where there was an extreme focus on extra biblical personal standards was used for control over children and church membership, not as a way to become more Christ like. Where every personal preference of the pastoral staff was supported with incredibly weak hand picked scripture to support it. Where the music leader succeed this crap down our throats while taking about the sexuality age sensuality of music, while coming across as the creepiest sex crazed perverted old couple interacting with teenagers. You can hold whatever personal standards you want for your own personal conduct. But you can't elevate it to scripture. Anyone can twist scripture to support their extra biblical positions. And honestly, I resent having to grow up in that environment. And while I'm still a born again Christian who believes the Bible, my resentment of such obvious cult like behavior has made me seriously question pretty much all of my faith. I read stuff constantly about why the youth left the church. I can tell you why almost my entire Christian high school class doesn't care much anymore, or why most all of my Christian college friends (in both cases very observant devout groups) left. It was the focus on cult like personal standards decided on by control focused traditional pastors. Once you realize that they're full of crap about music, alcohol, inter-personal relationships, etc... Why would any of us trust any of their theology? I grew up in a similar environment. I have learned how to tell when somebody is full of shit. When I took physics, the physics professor stood in front of the class and taught physics. He was presenting facts. He didn't have to use manipulative voice control, rant and rave, and pace back and forth across the platform to present FACTS. Anytime a preacher, politician or entrepreneur is "preaching" to you, they are selling you bullshit, not facts. Facts stand alone without a hard sell. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:59:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Reminds me of the Baptist preacher on my Israel tour who lost his shit on Beth Shan because a scene from Jesus Christ Superstar was filmed there. Just went on and on and on about the evils of rock n roll.
What a miserable existence |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 6:26:32 PM EDT
[#6]
I was saved because of Rock & roll. Or rather, Christian rock that the puri-tyrannical churches shut down in the early 90s. We used to go to an auto body shop in Southern California that had a stage built in the back. Great times.
The irony is that my first concert was for a thrash metal band called The Crucified that was held in the gym of a Catholic school.  The Pillars Of Humanity |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 6:54:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Mathematics teaches the harmony of the mind
Gymnastics teaches the harmony of the body Music teachers the harmony of the soul. these were the classic Greek "subjects" taught in school. Lyrics aside, music has a direct connection to mood. that's why movies have a soundtrack. You think you are scared or joyful or sad because of the plot? Not really, it's the soundtrack. rock and roll and even heavy metal have an aggressive and frequently dark mood. I've thrown away "Christian" heavy metal because it was musically very dark. right now I'm listening to Buckethead while I grade math tests. the aggression and energy motivates me, and the mood is not despairing or dark. but aggression is not necessarily an evil. Nor is hate. Psalm 97:10 says "you who fear God MUST hate evil". It's a command. I've given up on "labels" as they relate to Christian or secular. There is no secular. Scripture speaks to the proper use of all things, and so all things are sacred when used RIGHTLY, even aggression and hate. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 7:58:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Heavy metal loving (and playing) Christian myself. Was a yuge slayer fan back in the day and still listen to some of their stuff. Sure Kerry King is a butthurt atheist, but Tom Araya isn’t. Just a gag to sell records and freak out squares. *shrugs*
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:44:36 PM EDT
[#9]
2 Peter 2:1
King James Version 2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:25:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Psalm 150 King James Version (KJV)150
Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. 2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. 3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. 6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord. Psalm 33 King James Version 33 Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright. 2 Praise the Lord with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. 3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.  Saving Grace - The King is Coming - Deathless |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:36:09 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:43:02 PM EDT
[#12]
 Track 02 "Ne Plus Ultra" - Album "Fathom" - Artist "Mortal" |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 11:00:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Some Christian rock songs you might've heard of;
Read the lyrics:  Failed To Load Title "Just alright" is hippie slang.  Jesus is Just Alright - Doobie Brothers Written from the view of Jesus:  Lenny Kravitz - Are You Gonna Go My Way - Scroll Lyrics "22" |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 11:04:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a Baptist environment where there was an extreme focus on extra biblical personal standards which was used for control over children and church membership, not as a way to become more Christ like. Where every personal preference of the pastoral staff was supported with incredibly weak hand picked scripture to support it. Where the music leaders stuffed this crap down our throats while taking about the sexuality and sensuality of music, while coming across as the creepiest sex crazed perverted old couple interacting with teenagers. You can hold whatever personal standards you want for your own personal conduct. But you can't elevate it to scripture. Anyone can twist scripture to support their extra biblical positions. And honestly, I resent having to grow up in that environment. And while I'm still a born again Christian who believes the Bible, my resentment of such obvious cult like behavior has made me seriously question pretty much all of my faith. I read stuff constantly about why the youth leave the church. I can tell you why almost my entire Christian high school class doesn't care much anymore, or why most all of my Christian college friends (in both cases very observant devout groups) left. It was the focus on cult like personal standards decided on by control focused traditional pastors. Once you realize that they're full of crap about music, alcohol, inter-personal relationships, etc... Why would any of us trust any of their theology?Tj That's similar to my experience as well. While the majority of the pastors I've know are great people who try hard to be very understanding of how the real world works outside of their church bubble. There were always people that took it too far and made it a bad experience or enjoyed the power over the humility. And then there were just some monsters in amongst the sheep and they're always viewed as a project to save them from themselves while they undermine the entire thing. After 22 years of listening to modern Christian music, it's so terrible and I can't stand 10 seconds of it anymore. My son hears "bad" lyrics in classic rock songs, but I'm not hiding the world from him or telling him things are evil. I'll explain what things are and why people do what they do and he'll be prepared when the time comes to make real decisions, not parrot BS he's been fed from holy rollers. Good secular music is too important to my life to lose it. And words are just words. They hold power only through actions. So everybody lighten up and rock on. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 11:47:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Seems to me that for the last 20-25 years Christian radio has gone all-in on bland corporate music written so that intermediate level musicians can play it on Sunday with little to no rehearsal.
Musically interesting and challenging Christian rock music either predates this trend or is not on Christian labels. An example of phenomenal musicianship but dated (1993):  Iona - Bird Of Heaven More modern, but independent label:  Take me away-Globus-lyrics |
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Posted: 5/21/2020 12:10:33 AM EDT
[#16]
I have a more emotional response with Christian metal than softer genres, first time I heard this song, whew
 For Today - Crown of Thorns (lyrics) |
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Posted: 5/21/2020 1:42:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seamasterpro: I have a more emotional response with Christian metal than softer genres, first time I heard this song, whew  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqKoqsL2S40You would probably like some of the stuff from "Wolves at the Gate", if you haven't heard them |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 10:57:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Once my oldest son was old enough to understand song lyrics, I threw away a bunch of CDs. What lacked profanity I kept. When he could understand more complex ideas, I threw away some more. I did not put much more thought into this subject until not too long ago when I heard a priest I respect denounce rock and roll as evil. I used to just shrug off Christian opposition to rock and roll as puritanical. However, after spending some time reading about it, I found that there was a lot I did not understand. This page offers the most comprehensive explanation I've found. I'm sure this experiment with rats is probably not new to many. I've got virtually no music education, so I'm hoping someone better educated can chime in. Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things. We all must admit that most secular music does not pass the Philippians 4:8 test. The lyrics are impure and the devil uses it to influence people to sin or think about sin. When listening to music you picture yourself in the song. It will affect you in some way. Are there secular songs that promote things that are noble and has nothing to do with evil? Yes and we are free to listen to them, but remember we must be careful. Colossians 3:2-5 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. I copied this from: https://biblereasons.com/music/ |
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Posted: 5/23/2020 11:24:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirableif anything is excellent or praiseworthythink about such things. We all must admit that most secular music does not pass the Philippians 4:8 test. The lyrics are impure and the devil uses it to influence people to sin or think about sin. When listening to music you picture yourself in the song. It will affect you in some way. Are there secular songs that promote things that are noble and has nothing to do with evil? Yes and we are free to listen to them, but remember we must be careful. Colossians 3:2-5 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. I copied this from: https://biblereasons.com/music/ 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. It's all Romans 14 though. If it bothers you, don't listen to it; but also don't trouble those who do not find any sin in it. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:06:39 AM EDT
[#20]
I would argue that there's a lot of truth to the ideas in the article. There's likely a good deal of overlap with the problems in Hollywood, but I don't think it is fair to question "rock" music without questioning popular music in general. I think there is far worse out there than Stairway, as a recent GD post about a popular musician just released from prison highlighted. Granted, none of us actually listen to that stuff so the criticism of rock may be more relevant for us.
Still, I think it's possible to paint with too big a brush. Burzum is different than Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree. I think we all have to look at it on a case by case basis. Let me just say this. I think listening to Dan Schutte is way more destructive to Catholics than listening to Zeppelin ever will be. https://www.ccwatershed.org/2014/08/27/dan-schutte-mass-of-christ-the-savior-2/ |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:12:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Paul wrote that though all things may be permissible for him, he chooses not to do things that MAY cause a brother to stumble.
Applying that to the music that you play on the radio would mean that if the heavy metal song causes a person to incorrectly think that all heavy metal is ok because you are cranking it up in your truck and you are a "Christian", then all heavy metal must be good for your soul; though it is not. You would be guilty of the sin of leading your brother to temptation and leading to his/her downfall. Is that a sin that you want to be guilty of committing? Causing your brother to stumble? |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:17:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it bothers you, don't listen to it; but also don't trouble those who do not find any sin in it. That is an extremely unBiblical comment. Our duty as Christians is to assist others who are sinning to see what is wrong and to seek God. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:24:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I raise an eyebrow at quoting from Colossians 3 while ignoring this part in chapter 2: As in any writing, the final part of the letter is a summary of thought and a conclusion of context. So the context is not to be false in your humility and self seeking, but to set aside all things that may make you or your brother stumble. You are using a common tactic of taking a small part of scripture out of context of the entire Gospel and the entire Law as given by God. Remember Jesus said that He was not here to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it. He also said not one jot or tittle of God's Law will pass away. God said, "Be Holy, for I, your God am a Holy God." |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:30:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heavy metal loving (and playing) Christian myself. Was a yuge slayer fan back in the day and still listen to some of their stuff. Sure Kerry King is a butthurt atheist, but Tom Araya isn’t. Just a gag to sell records and freak out squares. *shrugs* bingo |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:30:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Paul wrote that though all things may be permissible for him, he chooses not to do things that MAY cause a brother to stumble. Applying that to the music that you play on the radio would mean that if the heavy metal song causes a person to incorrectly think that all heavy metal is ok because you are cranking it up in your truck and you are a "Christian", then all heavy metal must be good for your soul; though it is not. You would be guilty of the sin of leading your brother to temptation and leading to his/her downfall. Is that a sin that you want to be guilty of committing? Causing your brother to stumble? Look at Romans 14 above, he's talking about faith and conscience, i.e. one's confidence in Christ to have redeemed them from sin. Another one to look at is 1 Corinthians 8. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:38:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is an extremely unBiblical comment. Our duty as Christians is to assist others who are sinning to see what is wrong and to seek God. If righteousness came through the keeping of the law, then righteousness would have been by the law, and Christ wouldn't need to die on the cross. And thus the just shall live by faith. But the law is not of faith. But remember that the law is not of faith. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:40:01 AM EDT
[#27]
It appears that you are using semantics to debate a topic that is very clear in Scripture.
Do nothing that has the appearance of sin. Do nothing that may cause your brother to stumble and sin. Be Holy and Christlike. Consider weaker brothers and put the needs of others ahead of your desires. Therefore let us stop judging one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. Romans 14:21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything to cause your brother to stumble. 1 Corinthians 10:32 Do not become a stumbling block, whether to Jews or Greeks or the church of God 100 verses warning you NOT to make your brother stumble. Causing Your Brother To Stumble: https://www.openbible.info/topics/causing_your_brother_to_stumble If you wish to continue this debate of why it's OK to make your brother stumble because you see nothing wrong in that music, then you have a more serious issue to address. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:45:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It what is said in Romans 14 and Colossians 2. If righteousness came through the keeping of the law, then righteousness would have been by the law, and Christ wouldn't need to die on the cross. And thus the just shall live by faith. But the law is not of faith. But remember that the law is not of faith. Your are ignoring Romans 6 Romans 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? James 4:4You adulterous people!c Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”? |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 9:52:45 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are using a common tactic of taking a small part of scripture out of context of the entire Gospel and the entire Law as given by God. Remember Jesus said that He was not here to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it. He also said not one jot or tittle of God's Law will pass away. God said, "Be Holy, for I, your God am a Holy God." You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of. Yes, Christ came to fulfill the law. Once He fulfilled it however, the Law was done away with (Ephesians 2:13-15, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3-4, Romans 3-5, etc.) . And you even quote Leviticus.. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 10:37:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, Christ came to fulfill the law. Once He fulfilled it however, the Law was done away with Since Christ was and is the final authority on this subject, read His words: Matthew 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Simple put, the earth and heavens have not yet passed away. They will pass away after the tribulation and judgement of the earth and all mankind. Therefore, as Christ said, the law is still in effect. Christ said that if your righteousness, obedience to the law, does not exceed that of the scribes, you will not enter heaven. It is very clear. Many churches do not teach this because they do not understand how you can have the grace described in Romans mesh with Christ telling you that you MUST live a holy and pure life according to the law. Christ said "If you love me you will keep my commandments." Christ said "Many will come to me on judgement day and I will say to them, Depart for I never knew you." Saved by grace but also bound to obey the law of Moses is 100% substantiated by Christ's own words. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 10:41:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your are ignoring Romans 6 Romans 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Quote HistoryQuoted: Your are ignoring Romans 6 Romans 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? James 4:4You adulterous people!c Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, "He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us"? 11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? And remember what he wrote beforehand: 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. Also, take another look at Matthew 5, after verse 17: 21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire...27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart... It's interesting that people read Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, then pick out the sins that other people are doing and ignore that which condemns themselves. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 10:43:44 AM EDT
[#32]
I'm not picking your sins. I am addressing every excuse you offer to ignore the Law.
Go back to Matt 5:19 and tell me this, would you rather be the least in heaven or would you rather be among the greatest in heaven? That is the challenge that Christ outs forth. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 10:45:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since Christ was and is the final authority on this subject, read His words: Matthew % 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband." 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman." 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 10:47:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not picking your sins. I am addressing every excuse you offer to ignore the Law. 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vainif indeed it was in vain? 5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 10:52:24 AM EDT
[#35]
You are completely ignoring Christ's words and misusing other scripture.
Go back to Christ's own words. They are very clear and to the point. Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 11:16:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are completely ignoring Christ's words and misusing other scripture. Go back to Christ's own words. They are very clear and to the point. Matt 5: 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Are you just going to pick the same two verses and repeat them ad nauseum, ignoring the verses I gave you that show the Law has been replaced by a new and better covenant? There's a reason all pro-law people quote almost exclusively from Matthew. It's because they don't realize what Jesus was doing. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 12:07:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Steve Miller Band "funky shit in the city"..."funky kicks"?
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Posted: 5/24/2020 3:22:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would argue that there's a lot of truth to the ideas in the article. There's likely a good deal of overlap with the problems in Hollywood, but I don't think it is fair to question "rock" music without questioning popular music in general. I think there is far worse out there than Stairway, as a recent GD post about a popular musician just released from prison highlighted. Granted, none of us actually listen to that stuff so the criticism of rock may be more relevant for us. Still, I think it's possible to paint with too big a brush. Burzum is different than Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree. I think we all have to look at it on a case by case basis. Let me just say this. I think listening to Dan Schutte is way more destructive to Catholics than listening to Zeppelin ever will be. https://www.ccwatershed.org/2014/08/27/dan-schutte-mass-of-christ-the-savior-2/ Personally, I'm more of a Marty Haugen guy. 
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Posted: 5/24/2020 3:41:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Back on topic. There are secular songs that I listen to just to keep some perspective.
"Subdivisions" by Rush was basically my childhood. That song expressed my discontent with life and probably had something to do with my acceptance of Christ. "The Garden" is another Rush song that is good guidance. "She Talks to Angels" by the Black Crowes is about heroin. This woman talks about her former addiction to it. "These Kids Aren't Alright" by The Offspring for obvious reasons. There's an old Christian band called The Prayer Chain that had a song called "Some Love" that many Christians could heed. Some others but you get the point. |
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Posted: 5/24/2020 4:20:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I honestly tried to take him seriously...at least give him a chance...while some may be..and I’ll admit, speaking of sex,drugs etc...not all rock and roll is satanic. Now the fact that he seems to strongly dislike the Beatles is a major plus in my eyes...what he said about them is true. And some of his points may be true, but honestly it comes across like a high school debater. I say that because I wrote the same way in high school. I can give you country songs and pop songs with just as suggestive language. As I have matured, I have changed what I will listen to..no more highway to Hell by AC/DC.. and honestly my music taste span a great deal of eras and styles..jazz and big band, classic country, classic rock , heavy metal. As to rock stars having a captivating effect on the listeners, so do actors etc..does that mean that tv shows are satanic? It is a broad brush that he is painting with. While I’m sure that some are, not all are. The Beatles? Definitely music from hell. music from hell. So do preachers. Look at televangelists. |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 9:32:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would argue that there's a lot of truth to the ideas in the article. There's likely a good deal of overlap with the problems in Hollywood, but I don't think it is fair to question "rock" music without questioning popular music in general. I think there is far worse out there than Stairway, as a recent GD post about a popular musician just released from prison highlighted. Granted, none of us actually listen to that stuff so the criticism of rock may be more relevant for us. Still, I think it's possible to paint with too big a brush. Burzum is different than Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree. I think we all have to look at it on a case by case basis. Let me just say this. I think listening to Dan Schutte is way more destructive to Catholics than listening to Zeppelin ever will be. https://www.ccwatershed.org/2014/08/27/dan-schutte-mass-of-christ-the-savior-2/ I agree. I would say since the 80's Pop rock and even some country music has destroyed more souls than hard rock. Even as teens we all KNEW hard rock lyrics were a bad influence and forbidden fruit (if you could understand them) but justified to ourselves that the drums and guitars made it worth a listen. Pop (including "Hair bands") on the other hand were a family approved wolf in sheep's clothing and most definitely influenced the Gen X girls to liberate, sleep around, and emulate the MTV lifestyle. Now pop is worse than ever and the symbolism in the videos are straight up occultist. Modern Novus Ordo Church hyms are awful. No straight man with an ounce of testosterone wants to sing or hear that infantile feminine fluff. |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 12:49:01 PM EDT
[#42]
This interesting topic. I have tried to steer my 16 yo away from some music. But I definitely have found certain "secular" music to be beneficial to me throughout my life. I am definitely more toned down in my selection now.
I recently came across this Catholic priest who used to be a metal guy and converted to the Faith. He is now a hermit. Hermits must make all their own money. So, he asks for donations. But he has great music. Fr Maximilian Mary Dean I still sometimes need a little Metallica (old stuff) in my life though.  A Battle Cry Goes Out - Official Music Video - Fr. Maximilian Mary Dean |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 6:28:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you just going to pick the same two verses and repeat them ad nauseum, ignoring the verses I gave you that show the Law has been replaced by a new and better covenant? Why should I consider changing my position when you did not answer my questions and address what Christ said? Christ is the final authority. He said that all authority in Heaven and on earth have been given to Him. Therefore, when He says something, that is the final word. Your problem is you are relying on someone else who translated what the Apostles wrote. The words of Christ are very simple and plain. No need to do any heavy translation. His words are the same regardless of which version/ translation you pick. The letters from the Apostles are not so simple and are frequently misused by people as you are doing. Anytime there appears to be a contradiction in Scripture, you must first look at context and then the translation. But most importantly, you must take Christ's words as the final word on a topic; especially when the words are simple, plain and to the point. You remind me of the people that ask if something is a sin. When shown Scripture, they first deny it, then say "don't judge me man..." then they continue on doing that sin. I won't reply anymore in this thread because you refuse to answer the questions I posed to you. As Christ said, "Don't cast your pearls before the swine." |
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Posted: 5/25/2020 7:00:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why should I consider changing my position when you did not answer my questions and address what Christ said? Christ is the final authority. He said that all authority in Heaven and on earth have been given to Him. Therefore, when He says something, that is the final word. Your problem is you are relying on someone else who translated what the Apostles wrote. The words of Christ are very simple and plain. No need to do any heavy translation. His words are the same regardless of which version/ translation you pick. The letters from the Apostles are not so simple and are frequently misused by people as you are doing. Anytime there appears to be a contradiction in Scripture, you must first look at context and then the translation. But most importantly, you must take Christ's words as the final word on a topic; especially when the words are simple, plain and to the point. You remind me of the people that ask if something is a sin. When shown Scripture, they first deny it, then say "don't judge me man..." then they continue on doing that sin. I won't reply anymore in this thread because you refuse to answer the questions I posed to you. As Christ said, "Don't cast your pearls before the swine." I don't think Paul contradicts Christ. I think Christ prior to His rejection by Israel (around Matthew 23) was focused on getting the Jews to see the weakness of the Law (as Hebrews 7-10 explains) and their need for another way: Himself. Everyone sins. No man is righteous, no not one. The New Covenant isn't Judaism 2.0, it's something entirely new and requires a new way of thinking: Hebrews 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. There is very little that Paul writes that isn't in the OT or the Gospels. Jesus Himself Characterized His salvation in John 3:14-15 with a reference to Numbers 21:6-9. In short, when we are bitten by sin and judgment, we look to Him and we are saved - He who became sin so we can be the righteousness of God. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 11:14:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heavy metal loving (and playing) Christian myself. Was a yuge slayer fan back in the day and still listen to some of their stuff. Sure Kerry King is a butthurt atheist, but Tom Araya isn’t. Just a gag to sell records and freak out squares. *shrugs* same with whats his nuts from pantera, they put on this stage face for the "fans" which is why thye probably quit as well... playing this dark, angry serious person all hte time gotta weigh on ya... religion is for control, good old straight, simple, bible teaching doesnt need a big "council" on what to believe and spend your cash... granted they start motivated for good, i assume, at least most of the time. they eventually get corrupted over half a generation, ish, then get "reborn"... nothing new under the sun, bascially. thats why the "whats the most important commandant?" is because now life is way simplified, yet we technically held to an even higher standard... in terms of music, thats tough, it definitely factors in.... everyone has their "drug of choice"... i like it, but after the vegas thing, and seeing hellyeah in wichita, with all the dead eyed folk walking around it kinda freaked me out... and hellyeah sucks live, just screamin, not like hte actual mucho produced studio version... anyways, as long as you are a good parent, God says when your kid is old he "wont depart from the...." so have faith in that! |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:30:32 PM EDT
[#46]
In God's lamentation over the fall of Lucifer in Ezekiel, he mentions Lucifer's musical instruments which imply his musical talent. Music being a big thing in heaven.
When you look at music of today, you can often see and hear Lucifer's anger and lament and impotence in his state speaking through the musicians who are cut off from God. Some hear it and may fall into his sway. Other's hear it and see and feel the pain, isolation, confusion, terror, and anger that comes with isolation from God. As every tool, what matters is to what end it is put, but the world is under Lucifer's sway, and as a talented master, music is used for his purpose more than ever. Listen with discernment, share with caution. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:09:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Angels don't sing. I wonder if they are forbidden to sing now.
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Posted: 7/9/2020 12:08:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Angels don't sing. I wonder if they are forbidden to sing now. I wouldn't know. But in the Lament given to Ezekiel it is said that pipes and a tambourine had been crafted for Lucifer before he fell. Hence music. |
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Posted: 7/9/2020 9:05:18 AM EDT
[#49]
You guys going on about Satan should know that "lucifer" isn't a name in the Hebrew text; it's a Latin word. The early English translators got stuck on the Hebrew word heylel so they just transliterated the Latin word from the Vulgate as a proper name. Likely it simply means 'light-bearer' and in Isaiah 14:12 is possibly a reference to the planet Venus as a means of sarcastically illustrating the arrogance of the King of Babylon in seeing himself as divine.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/isaiah-14-12.html |
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Posted: 7/9/2020 10:28:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys going on about Satan should know that "lucifer" isn't a name in the Hebrew text; it's a Latin word. The early English translators got stuck on the Hebrew word heylel so they just transliterated the Latin word from the Vulgate as a proper name. Likely it simply means 'light-bearer' and in Isaiah 14:12 is possibly a reference to the planet Venus as a means of sarcastically illustrating the arrogance of the King of Babylon in seeing himself as divine. https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/isaiah-14-12.html And yet you understood who was being referred to, the term being therefore sufficient. Call him HaSatan, the adversary, the devil, which ever you prefer. The point is understanding his capability to influence through music, and the people off the path who become aligned to him as they leave their relationship with God. |
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