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Posted: 7/22/2021 7:20:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 7:43:12 AM EDT by JHS]
I am trying to determine if a meme is legitimate data from the Israeli govt.

On Tuesday, WRAL (local news in Raleigh NC posted a story at noon indicating our recent statewide breakthrough covid case rate was nearly 25%. This is newsworthy because our population vaccinated rate is ~43% and we know vaccinated people have less symptoms (causing them to seek testing at a lower rate) and we know doctors recommend testing at a lower rate in vaccinated people.

Those two factors (clinical symptom severity differences and clinical testing guidance differences) would make vaccinated case rates lower than the fraction of vaccinated people in the total population.

The only explanation for why being vaccinated could actually drive up the vaccinated case rate is that vaccinated people are throwing caution to the wind (rawdogging life itself).

Attachment Attached File


The wral story got edited at least four times before 9:00pm that night including title changes. Original story title is in screenshot above, and that was “the newsworthy part” of the story.

Changed to:
Attachment Attached File


Other US news sources like Lexington KY reported same as original NC story.

Attachment Attached File


A meme says that vaccination makes just about zero impact in the case rate:

Attachment Attached File


It cites data source:

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

I can’t read this shit:

Attachment Attached File


Can someone directly read the israeli govt page (many other charts) and see if the vaccinated case rate mirrors the vaccinated population percentage?

Thanks.


Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:23:12 AM EDT
You read it from right to left not left to right like we do in English.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:30:49 AM EDT
Surely someone in here is bar mitvahed?
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:34:00 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:
Surely someone in here is bar mitvahed?
View Quote
Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:37:40 AM EDT
Cmon, broheims, where ya at?

I thought we had a ton of .IL members?
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:38:42 AM EDT
I guess i can google translate but i just read that they lie about shit too, trying to KISS here.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:46:53 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:
I guess i can google translate but i just read that they lie about shit too, trying to KISS here.
View Quote

So you think your odds are bettter in GD in the middle of the night?
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:48:00 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:

So you think your odds are bettter in GD in the middle of the night?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By JHS:
I guess i can google translate but i just read that they lie about shit too, trying to KISS here.

So you think your odds are bettter in GD in the middle of the night?


GD knows all.

GD never sleeps.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:48:50 AM EDT
Google translate hangs for 10 mins on safari

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:49:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 7:57:27 AM EDT by AlanStanwyck]
Originally Posted By JHS:
I am trying to determine if a meme is legitimate data from the Israeli govt.

On Tuesday, WRAL (local news in Raleigh NC posted a story at noon indicating our recent statewide breakthrough covid case rate was nearly 25%. This is newsworthy because our population vaccinated rate is ~43% and we know vaccinated people have less symptoms (causing them to seek testing at a lower rate) and we know doctors recommend testing at a lower rate in vaccinated people.

Those two factors (clinical symptom severity differences and clinical testing guidance differences) would make vaccinated case rates lower than the fraction of vaccinated people in the total population.

The only explanation for why being vaccinated could actually drive up the vaccinated case rate is that vaccinated people are throwing caution to the wind (rawdogging life itself).

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/C6B7BEB7-E961-488F-946F-4CED2503D6E9_png-2023538.JPG

The wral story got edited at least four times before 9:00pm that night including title changes. Original story title is in screenshot above, and that was “the newsworthy part” of the story.

Changed to:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/788A9810-3050-4626-82F0-3938027E58E6_png-2023539.JPG

Other US news sources like Lexington KY reported same as original NC story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/5A2407AB-8FFE-47A7-9FBF-DCCED83AE780_jpe-2023540.JPG

A meme says that vaccination makes just about zero impact in the case rate:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/3E832FB4-BA63-4483-9725-749D81538FE7_jpe-2023546.JPG

It cites data source:

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

I can’t read this shit:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/F5AAD384-E6AC-4242-9F2C-0309AC62B8A4_jpe-2023547.JPG

Can someone directly read the israeli govt page (many other charts) and see if the vaccinated case rate mirrors the vaccinated population percentage?

Thanks.


View Quote


top line in bold says "vaccinated by age"
The blue is "first dose"
green is "second dose"
bottom line says "% of those covid vaccinated by age"
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:51:06 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:


GD knows all.

GD never sleeps.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By JHS:
I guess i can google translate but i just read that they lie about shit too, trying to KISS here.

So you think your odds are bettter in GD in the middle of the night?


GD knows all.

GD never sleeps.
GD also never gives correct answers until page 2.

In before "that fucking pisses me off!" (not directed at you OP, but another poster who bitches about such things)
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:54:04 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
GD also never gives correct answers until page 2.

In before "that fucking pisses me off!" (not directed at you OP, but another poster who bitches about such things)
View Quote

sheket bevakasha
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:00:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 8:02:25 AM EDT by JHS]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlanStanwyck:


top line in bold says "vaccinated by age"
The blue is "first dose"
green is "second dose"
bottom line says "% of those covid vaccinated by age"
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlanStanwyck:
Originally Posted By JHS:
I am trying to determine if a meme is legitimate data from the Israeli govt.

On Tuesday, WRAL (local news in Raleigh NC posted a story at noon indicating our recent statewide breakthrough covid case rate was nearly 25%. This is newsworthy because our population vaccinated rate is ~43% and we know vaccinated people have less symptoms (causing them to seek testing at a lower rate) and we know doctors recommend testing at a lower rate in vaccinated people.

Those two factors (clinical symptom severity differences and clinical testing guidance differences) would make vaccinated case rates lower than the fraction of vaccinated people in the total population.

The only explanation for why being vaccinated could actually drive up the vaccinated case rate is that vaccinated people are throwing caution to the wind (rawdogging life itself).

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/C6B7BEB7-E961-488F-946F-4CED2503D6E9_png-2023538.JPG

The wral story got edited at least four times before 9:00pm that night including title changes. Original story title is in screenshot above, and that was “the newsworthy part” of the story.

Changed to:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/788A9810-3050-4626-82F0-3938027E58E6_png-2023539.JPG

Other US news sources like Lexington KY reported same as original NC story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/5A2407AB-8FFE-47A7-9FBF-DCCED83AE780_jpe-2023540.JPG

A meme says that vaccination makes just about zero impact in the case rate:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/3E832FB4-BA63-4483-9725-749D81538FE7_jpe-2023546.JPG

It cites data source:

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

I can’t read this shit:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239441/F5AAD384-E6AC-4242-9F2C-0309AC62B8A4_jpe-2023547.JPG

Can someone directly read the israeli govt page (many other charts) and see if the vaccinated case rate mirrors the vaccinated population percentage?

Thanks.




top line in bold says "vaccinated by age"
The blue is "first dose"
green is "second dose"
bottom line says "% of those covid vaccinated by age"


@AlanStanwyck
Mazeltov­!

I mean “toda”

The specific chart i screengrabbed doesnt give the vaccinated case rates but the rates themselves seem to match the meme (maybe time periods a bit different.  

Can you take a look at the israeli govt link?
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:04:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AlanStanwyck:

sheket bevakasha
View Quote

LOL.

Unfortunately my bar mitzvah was in 1981 and I can't read Hebrew anymore.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:07:02 AM EDT
I could get my wife or daughter, but this fake news should be shit canned.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:14:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bolboda:
I could get my wife or daughter, but this fake news should be shit canned.
View Quote


I would think that a competent read of the IL govt data could say whether the original meme is fake or the original wral and current kentucky news is fake, or the wral redactions are fake news.

I know CDC decided as a matter of policy to not even count covid breakthrough cases in May.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:21:35 AM EDT
Edge translates it automatically if you choose to do it.

Couldn't find the page that the meme picture came from though.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:24:27 AM EDT
ohh boy... that data says... vaccines dont do shit at preventing this variant.

% vaccinated cases rate almost exactly matchs the % of age group vaccinated.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:30:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 8:31:49 AM EDT by AlanStanwyck]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
ohh boy... that data says... vaccines dont do shit at preventing this variant.

% vaccinated cases rate almost exactly matchs the % of age group vaccinated.
View Quote


It's clear almost all the people getting covid in Israel are vaccinated.  That's because israel's vax rate is so high.  That said, the data is still not there (at least not on the gov.il web site) i.e. how effective the vaccine is.  But yes, people with the vax are getting the vid and apparently spreading it to other vaxxed people.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:38:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:38:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DaGoose:
Edge translates it automatically if you choose to do it.

Couldn't find the page that the meme picture came from though.
View Quote


@DaGoose

Link it IL is in OP
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:40:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By d16man:
I picked up my case of covid in Fuquay-Varina, NC last week.
View Quote


I caught it in durham co from family who had vacationed in FL.

Vaccinated ppl in my family and another family caught it at same dinner
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:44:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 8:48:35 AM EDT by erwos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlanStanwyck:
It's clear almost all the people getting covid in Israel are vaccinated.  That's because israel's vax rate is so high.  That said, the data is still not there (at least not on the gov.il web site) i.e. how effective the vaccine is.  But yes, people with the vax are getting the vid and apparently spreading it to other vaxxed people.
View Quote

Yeah, I agree that the meme's claims about Israeli vaccine effectiveness are not on that website, or if they are, they're buried. I read Ivrit alright, and Chrome's Google Translate works fairly well on that website.

Personally speaking, I don't care about getting the 'rona, I care about being hospitalized and DYING from the 'rona. Thus, I care more about how many vaccinated people die from the 'rona, and right now, that number seems to be pretty damn low.

ETA: https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

If the above link is true, half the cases were with vaccinated people. But the math you need to do there is that most of the Israeli population is vaccinated. That means unvaccinated people were picking it up (perhaps symptomatically) at a MUCH higher rate.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:47:42 AM EDT
Vaccine seems very limited in effectiveness. Nobody should be surprised at this but with all the propaganda out there everyone’s perception is skewed.

It is probably a good idea to get it if you are obese or old or have other health issues.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:49:45 AM EDT
If you don't like the numbers, just declare that "Those numbers are all bullshit."

The ultimate ARFCOM argument to settle the science.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:50:09 AM EDT
I have this, no clue what it is or says. I assume its from the raiders of the lost ark haul.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:53:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 8:59:18 AM EDT by destaccado]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:


@DaGoose

Link it IL is in OP
View Quote



That meme picture isn't on that page. Perhaps they grab various data and compile it themselves but I'm not seeing where it even breaks down vaccinated infected or non-vaccinated infected on that website.

Further, the meme graphic is a different layout to the ones on that site.

In any case; the data they're referencing is suspect since they don't list the specific hyperlink to the data they compiled and just link the generic main page.

I would guess - but can't confirm - fake news.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:54:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gewehr98:
I have this, no clue what it is or says. I assume its from the raiders of the lost ark haul.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/434737/P1000327_JPG-2023585.JPG
View Quote

So Jew-Haul?
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 8:58:48 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By erwos:

Yeah, I agree that the meme's claims about Israeli vaccine effectiveness are not on that website, or if they are, they're buried. I read Ivrit alright, and Chrome's Google Translate works fairly well on that website.

Personally speaking, I don't care about getting the 'rona, I care about being hospitalized and DYING from the 'rona. Thus, I care more about how many vaccinated people die from the 'rona, and right now, that number seems to be pretty damn low.

ETA: https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

If the above link is true, half the cases were with vaccinated people. But the math you need to do there is that most of the Israeli population is vaccinated. That means unvaccinated people were picking it up (perhaps symptomatically) at a MUCH higher rate.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By erwos:
Originally Posted By AlanStanwyck:
It's clear almost all the people getting covid in Israel are vaccinated.  That's because israel's vax rate is so high.  That said, the data is still not there (at least not on the gov.il web site) i.e. how effective the vaccine is.  But yes, people with the vax are getting the vid and apparently spreading it to other vaxxed people.

Yeah, I agree that the meme's claims about Israeli vaccine effectiveness are not on that website, or if they are, they're buried. I read Ivrit alright, and Chrome's Google Translate works fairly well on that website.

Personally speaking, I don't care about getting the 'rona, I care about being hospitalized and DYING from the 'rona. Thus, I care more about how many vaccinated people die from the 'rona, and right now, that number seems to be pretty damn low.

ETA: https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

If the above link is true, half the cases were with vaccinated people. But the math you need to do there is that most of the Israeli population is vaccinated. That means unvaccinated people were picking it up (perhaps symptomatically) at a MUCH higher rate.


Whether it is half or 75% or on-par rate depends upon the time window for data.

This is because vaxxed pop rate increases over time.

Short recent period (say past month) is what you need.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:00:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By destaccado:



That meme picture isn't on that page. Perhaps they grab various data and compile it themselves but I'm not seeing where it even breaks down vaccinated infected or non-vaccinated infected on that website.

Further, the meme graphic is a different layout to the ones on that site.

In any case; the data they're referencing is suspect since they don't list the specific hyperlink to the data they compiled and just link the generic main page.

I would guess - but can't confirm - fake news.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By destaccado:
Originally Posted By JHS:


@DaGoose

Link it IL is in OP



That meme picture isn't on that page. Perhaps they grab various data and compile it themselves but I'm not seeing where it even breaks down vaccinated infected or non-vaccinated infected on that website.

Further, the meme graphic is a different layout to the ones on that site.

In any case; the data they're referencing is suspect since they don't list the specific hyperlink to the data they compiled and just link the generic main page.

I would guess - but can't confirm - fake news.


The meme doesnt claim to be an IL web screen shot. It merely cites that website as data source.

A gringo made that excel table.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:00:40 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By JHS:


Whether it is half or 75% or on-par rate depends upon the time window for data.

This is because vaxxed pop rate increases over time.

Short recent period (say past month) is what you need.
View Quote


Well, start by providing actual reference to that data then instead of leading everyone down the rabbit hole of fake news Twitter memes you saw.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:02:01 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:


The meme doesnt claim to be an IL web screen shot. It merely cites that website as data source.

A gringo made that excel table.
View Quote


I'm aware someone used that website and provided an extremely generic reference to the data they're claiming they pulled; data that doesn't appear to be present on the site or even one of the fields to compile it yourself.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:03:38 AM EDT
@TontoGoldstein
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:05:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:08:56 AM EDT
If it were written in plain English, that would just mean half of GD would get it backwards.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:10:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 9:11:31 AM EDT by destaccado]
The percentage of population vaccinated in that meme doesn't line up with the percentage on the website.

According to that website, as of 21 July, only 56.67% of Israeli's have had their second dose. It's close to 90% in 60+ but definitely not in the entire population.

That lines up with this website since the chart shows 55.75% on the date this article claims 56%.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-vaccine-data-how-many-have-already-been-inoculated-for-covid-1.9626604


So your chart on Israeli vaccine percentages is #fakenews
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:10:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:11:16 AM EDT

If I don’t like the data, then it is fake news.

If I don’t like the data, Your a…… “insert you approved pronoun here”

Protect the vaccine…

Protect the vaccine…

All lie unless they are pro vaccine…


Lol
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:12:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2021 9:12:50 AM EDT by destaccado]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peanutman:


If I don’t like the data, then it is fake news.

If I don’t like the data, Your a…… “insert you approved pronoun here”

Protect the vaccine…

Protect the vaccine…

All lie unless they are pro vaccine…


Lol
View Quote



...or you just read the data and see what it says.  If you make up numbers on either side - you are fake news. Doesn't matter what the numbers you're making up are about.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:21:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:21:47 AM EDT
I agree, read the data….


Verify the data….


Act on the data.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:22:38 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By destaccado:


Well, start by providing actual reference to that data then instead of leading everyone down the rabbit hole of fake news Twitter memes you saw.
View Quote

At least he's trying to verify the meme rather than just pass it off blindly discrediting conservative memers everywhere.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:28:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peanutman:


If I don’t like the data, then it is fake news.

If I don’t like the data, Your a…… “insert you approved pronoun here”

Protect the vaccine…

Protect the vaccine…

All lie unless they are pro vaccine…


Lol
View Quote


Yup. There is a lot of fake anti-vaccine stuff out there but the pro-vaccine people have been caught in too many lies too.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 9:46:42 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlanStanwyck:


top line in bold says "vaccinated by age"
The blue is "first dose"
green is "second dose"
bottom line says "% of those covid vaccinated by age"
View Quote



This.
Link Posted: 7/22/2021 7:48:01 PM EDT
The twitter discussion posted earlier is interesting.

The israelis definitely reported something like a detected 35% delta breakthrough rate among fully vaccinated people.

This was announced about when they said they were going with a third shot Pfizer booster.

Now, red-state health depts are saying that ~25% of recent-timeframe cases are in fully vaccinated people.

The data looks very strong that double vaccinated people are less likely to catch it, but there is a difference between a 2% chance (initial claim), a 25% chance, a 50% chance (rough what honest data looks like), or a 100% (meaning that vaccinated are on-par with unvaxxed).

Two factors suggest that we are underdetecting actual covid infections in vaccinated:
Their milder symptoms and belief in invincibility make them reluctant to test
Similarly caregivers won’t recommend tests at the same rate as for unvaxxed patients.

Because vaccination makes the patient feel invulnerable, they will travel more and congregate.

This last effect will boost infections.
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