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Posted: 12/31/2021 11:37:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2021 5:04:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I finished the holiday 200k challenge and should be getting another pin in January. I'll join the team, but my meters will be cut back due to training for other events this year.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 12:24:28 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm in. Adding row to supplement some of my other workouts.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 4:54:17 PM EDT
[#3]
I signed up and chipped in 5000m.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 6:39:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I signed up and chipped in 5000m.
View Quote

You guys are already kicking my ass. I'll catch up.
But not today. Drinking.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Concept 2 gives a hell of a full body work out.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 8:49:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Not sure why I thought this would be a fun challenge in addition to couch 2 10k. I'm on week 6 and ran 3 miles right before rowing my 5k.

Ouch
Link Posted: 1/2/2022 12:33:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 1/2/2022 1:11:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Put another 5k on the books.
Link Posted: 1/2/2022 2:50:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Put another 5k on the books.
View Quote


+5k
Link Posted: 1/3/2022 7:49:02 PM EDT
[#10]
I put 5K in this afternoon. I’ll put another 5K in tomorrow afternoon. We’re no. 43 in the 8-20 group.
Link Posted: 1/3/2022 7:53:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I put 5K in this afternoon. I’ll put another 5K in tomorrow afternoon. We’re no. 43 in the 8-20 group.
View Quote

I'll go do 2k now.
Link Posted: 1/3/2022 7:54:34 PM EDT
[#12]
I use one daily and track it via my Garmin Instinct.  If I can just link via that to the Concept 2 I am in but I don't want another tracker I have to start when I row.
Link Posted: 1/3/2022 8:55:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I use one daily and track it via my Garmin Instinct.  If I can just link via that to the Concept 2 I am in but I don't want another tracker I have to start when I row.
View Quote
The simplest way is to connect your phone to the PM5 via the ergdata app and record it as you workout. Then it automatically syncs to the online logbook. (it doesn't automatically sync, you have to click the "sync" button). I am not sure if garmin has an interface that syncs. The bluetooth feature is also great for people who want to use machines at their membership gym or friend's house etc.
Link Posted: 1/3/2022 9:13:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 1/3/2022 11:13:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


That’s hilarious!
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 1:10:19 AM EDT
[#16]
What do you guys normally like for drag factor/damper setting, stroke rate etc?

I set the machine around 125 on the drag factor (damper ~4) and seem to average 28spm. Would I be more efficient by opening up the damper and slowing down the strokes?


Link Posted: 1/4/2022 6:52:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Disclaimer: I'm just a desk jockey trying not to get fat

28 spm would be fast for me. For a 5K I usually average 20 spm. I put all the effort into the pull then the recovery is pretty slow and relaxed. I don't know which is more efficient, but for a given pace my knees, ass and lower back are happier with a lower spm than a higher one.

I never really paid attention to drag factor. When I first got my rower I dicked around with the damper to get a feel for the different settings but it has been set at 5 since forever. Here are the stats on my Sunday 5K if it helps for comparison:

Time: 22:23.7
Pace: 2.14.3
Avg Watts: 144
Stroke Rate: 20
Stroke Count: 448
Drag Factor: 109

.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 7:38:26 PM EDT
[#18]
I looked at the ones I am using at the base gym, I have been setting the resistance thing on the side to 8, 26-28 spm, I vary the stroke effort by doing intervals every other day.

a 5k takes me from 24-26 mins.

I suspect this sucks but I am new at rowing as an exercise.  I would note that my HR is HARD to get up on a rower compared to running and cycling.  My exercise HR is normally in a zone 3 and to get above that I just shell myself.  It is obvious to me a long time athlete, that it doesn't exercise cardio as aggressively as running or cycling. I does work my back and shoulders much better than other cardio exercises.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 8:12:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Disclaimer: I'm just a desk jockey trying not to get fat

28 spm would be fast for me. For a 5K I usually average 20 spm. I put all the effort into the pull then the recovery is pretty slow and relaxed. I don't know which is more efficient, but for a given pace my knees, ass and lower back are happier with a lower spm than a higher one.

I never really paid attention to drag factor. When I first got my rower I dicked around with the damper to get a feel for the different settings but it has been set at 5 since forever. Here are the stats on my Sunday 5K if it helps for comparison:

Time: 22:23.7
Pace: 2.14.3
Avg Watts: 144
Stroke Rate: 20
Stroke Count: 448
Drag Factor: 109

.
View Quote

Quoted:
I looked at the ones I am using at the base gym, I have been setting the resistance thing on the side to 8, 26-28 spm, I vary the stroke effort by doing intervals every other day.

a 5k takes me from 24-26 mins.

I suspect this sucks but I am new at rowing as an exercise.  I would note that my HR is HARD to get up on a rower compared to running and cycling.  My exercise HR is normally in a zone 3 and to get above that I just shell myself.  It is obvious to me a long time athlete, that it doesn't exercise cardio as aggressively as running or cycling. I does work my back and shoulders much better than other cardio exercises.
View Quote
Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185.

For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging?
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 8:54:54 PM EDT
[#20]
The machines at the gym just have the lever thing over the fan unit to set the load.  How do I compare that to the load numbers shown here.

I don't see that data on the screen while working out.  I have cycled through the display and found the watt meter which I understand because of my competitive cycling days.  

The 7/8 setting on the fan section just feels "normal" because heavier is like pulling mud while lighter is not a workout for my arms and shoulders.  

Should I shoot for wattage and not worry about anything else?  I would imagine the watts are pulled from the flywheel via a load meter of some sort, if it isn't than the entire reading is junk.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 8:58:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185.
https://i.imgur.com/IHOuqzM.png
For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging?
View Quote



Your stroke rate/wattage don't look like mine.  My wattage would be around 210-225 at your stroke pace.  You no doubt have less resistance on the machine compared to me.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 9:11:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The machines at the gym just have the lever thing over the fan unit to set the load.  How do I compare that to the load numbers shown here.

I don't see that data on the screen while working out.  I have cycled through the display and found the watt meter which I understand because of my competitive cycling days.  

The 7/8 setting on the fan section just feels "normal" because heavier is like pulling mud while lighter is not a workout for my arms and shoulders.  

Should I shoot for wattage and not worry about anything else?  I would imagine the watts are pulled from the flywheel via a load meter of some sort, if it isn't than the entire reading is junk.
View Quote


If you're using a C2, you should be able to go through the menu and find the "Drag Factor" option. Then, you row for a little bit and it will be displayed on the screen. Olympians train between 125-135, from what I've read.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 9:15:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I would note that my HR is HARD to get up on a rower compared to running and cycling.  My exercise HR is normally in a zone 3 and to get above that I just shell myself.  It is obvious to me a long time athlete, that it doesn't exercise cardio as aggressively as running or cycling. I does work my back and shoulders much better than other cardio exercises.
View Quote


Work on keeping your back straight and pushing with your legs primarily. I find my HR gets up there when I push hard with the legs and allow the momentum to carry my torso and arms back with me. Almost like you're sling-shotting your upper body by pushing off with your legs.

I've been putting in 1ks around 3:30 the last couple days and really been concentrating on the push-off for power.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 9:42:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If you're using a C2, you should be able to go through the menu and find the "Drag Factor" option. Then, you row for a little bit and it will be displayed on the screen. Olympians train between 125-135, from what I've read.
View Quote



It is a C2 with a generic looking LCD display.  The typical machine you see in a CrossFit gym which is basically where I work out in my gym (the USAF calls the area the "Functional Fitness" area)

The C2 is black and low to the ground, it appears to a basic device which is fine with me.  My indoor running is on an AirRunner, now that is a workout.
Link Posted: 1/4/2022 10:15:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Your stroke rate/wattage don't look like mine.  My wattage would be around 210-225 at your stroke pace.  You no doubt have less resistance on the machine compared to me.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185.
https://i.imgur.com/IHOuqzM.png
For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging?



Your stroke rate/wattage don't look like mine.  My wattage would be around 210-225 at your stroke pace.  You no doubt have less resistance on the machine compared to me.
The 125 drag factor corresponds to the damper setting line between 3 and 4 on my rower. As someone mentioned you can thumb through the menu on the PM5 until you find "display drag factor" and then give it a few pulls. This will tell you the specific drag factor of that damper setting on that machine. You can use that method to find the same drag factor setting for an equivalent workout on other machines if you wish. I am not sure how much variation there really is between machines.

The ergdata app is the only way I've found to get these data displays. The online logbook does not generate the graph with USB upload.

I am still learning how to maximize efficiency on this thing. My cycling FTP is about 250 watts. It will be interesting to monitor the rowing power over time and see if it trends closer as my conditioning and form improve. I am a very novice rower.


Link Posted: 1/5/2022 7:18:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185.

For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging?
View Quote


I'm 5'11" and my stroke length usually averages 1.3m. At 6'4" I would say you're leaving some length on the table and that adds up over hundreds of strokes.

Also, looking at your heart rate #'s I'd say you're not sandbagging in terms of effort.

Lots of good vids on YouTube for proper form. Dark Horse rowing has a lot of content. I liked Training Tall's early vids too.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 7:42:57 PM EDT
[#27]
I found the drag factor. I am running around 140.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:38:27 PM EDT
[#28]
I set the damper to 0 and focused on getting full extension and slowing the pace down. The flywheel spins for quite some time in that setting allowing me to focus on the recovery and catch. I reduced average strokes from 27 to 23, and finished today's 5k at identical pace but in ~80 fewer strokes. I think most of my strokes were 1.3-1.4 meters. HR averaged a little higher at 169 but I ran 3 miles prior to rowing today.
Link Posted: 1/6/2022 1:56:07 PM EDT
[#29]
FWIW, I’m 5’ 9” and my stroke length is usually 1.24m.  This is for the longer steady state rows at a rate of 21.  I keep the drag factor between 120-125.  When I get lazy, I’ll notice that it drops down to 1.21m and that makes me refocus.  I try to keep a straight back, shins no further than vertical when I start the catch, upper body rotating at the hips from 11 to 1, straight arms at the catch, and try for an “explosive” drive.  A stroke length of 1.3m at 6’ 4” sounds like it’s a little bit short.

I think Erik said that he has a hard time getting his HR up compared to running or cycling. I don’t have that issue and am usually trying to modulate my HR to keep it in a zone.

I’m just an amateur that rows for general fitness.  The Concept2 Forum has many elite rowers and coaches that can answer your questions much better than I can:

Concept2 Forum
Link Posted: 1/6/2022 7:05:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
FWIW, I'm 5' 9" and my stroke length is usually 1.24m.  This is for the longer steady state rows at a rate of 21.  I keep the drag factor between 120-125.  When I get lazy, I'll notice that it drops down to 1.21m and that makes me refocus.  I try to keep a straight back, shins no further than vertical when I start the catch, upper body rotating at the hips from 11 to 1, straight arms at the catch, and try for an "explosive" drive.  A stroke length of 1.3m at 6' 4" sounds like it's a little bit short.

I think Erik said that he has a hard time getting his HR up compared to running or cycling. I don't have that issue and am usually trying to modulate my HR to keep it in a zone.

I'm just an amateur that rows for general fitness.  The Concept2 Forum has many elite rowers and coaches that can answer your questions much better than I can:

Concept2 Forum
View Quote
I have been studying this a lot and things are starting to make a little sense. The attached video has some nice explanation and drills. I think due to the high stroke rate, I was having difficulty spinning up the flywheel quickly enough and lost several inches of length on each stroke. This was due to the disparity between velocity of the flywheel and acceleration of the stroke. Essentially, the first ~6" inches of my stroke were lost or wasted because it was slower than the flywheel's speed.

Did my best splits yet in today's workout. Power is up 26%, stroke rate down to 20, drive length 1.42. HR increased nominally but the results of this effort are largely attributed to improved form and efficiency. It's been a fun learning experiment so far.  

Maximum Power on the Rowing Machine

Link Posted: 1/6/2022 10:56:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 1/11/2022 6:08:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If you cycle through the displays it will show you a graph of force vs stroke distance. That's very informative, try to avoid flat spots in the graph. Ideally force should ramp up quickly and stay  more or less constant through the stroke.

Here's a very brief discussion, hopefully it has pointers to more information https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve

The notion of optimizing damper setting or using it to tune the workout for different objectives is near to my heart. As soon as I'm healthy I'm going to run a series of experiments. Right now I have a positive covid result and symptoms so I'm probably a few days away from going back to the gym.
View Quote
Feeling any better? I'm curious about the experiments you have planned. I finally cracked 20 minutes on the 5k through a comedy of errors.

I used this Dark Horse video for timing and tempo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuD7OL1_0M4

Unfortunately, an ad popped up right around the 7 minute mark. What a catastrophe, I was just hitting my stride and could barely push the button to skip the ad. By the time I got it, I was pretty much off the reservation. Started fast forwarding and rewinding between every stroke to try and get close to the program. I would have been fine being slightly ahead of pace, but I accidentally closed the video.

I restarted the video while thinking that I most likely blew it. Pretty gassed at this point, realized at the final 1k that I still had a chance. Finished the row with a quarter of a second to spare. When I stopped the video, I realized I accidentally restarted the 19 minute 5k video. That increased pace in the second half is probably the only thing that kept me in it.
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 12:51:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 3:13:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes! I just clocked in 4500 m, my first post-covid workout. I did 500 m intervals at a 1-3-5-7-9-10-6-4-2 damper settings, tomorrow I'll see if a pattern emerges. I expect to find an optimum setting in there somewhere. I think it probably depends on workout length as well: higher damper settings probably suit me better for sprints, lower settings for longer workouts. From here on in I'll probably tend more toward endurance, maybe spend 20 minutes on the machine and just grind out meters.


Looking at the team standings, I have some catching up to do!
View Quote

Glad you are feeling well enough to row. Any ill effects noted or still too early to tell?

I'm really impressed with the workouts everyone is doing. It's great motivation.


Link Posted: 1/12/2022 10:29:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 12:38:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Glad you’re feeling well!
Link Posted: 1/12/2022 10:24:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 1/14/2022 1:35:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 1/14/2022 1:44:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
5,480 m tonight.

My butt hurts. Also my hams cramped hard when I went to do power cleans. All worth it. Nobody ever died of muscle soreness, and that pain is weakness leaving my body.
View Quote
You're killing it. I recently ordered a vapor fitness butt pad, it should be here Monday.
Link Posted: 1/14/2022 12:49:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 1/14/2022 3:18:15 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm suffering through a case of the Wu flu.  I haven't rowed in a week.  I feel like shit.  Maybe starting this weekend.
Link Posted: 1/14/2022 5:20:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 1/14/2022 10:34:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:01:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:06:53 PM EDT
[#45]
I ordered one.

been thinking about getting one for a while, this thread pretty much sealed the deal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:25:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I ordered one.

been thinking about getting one for a while, this thread pretty much sealed the deal.
View Quote


IMHO, it’s money well spent.  If it was 3X the price, I’d still get one.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:34:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
11,100 m tonight.
View Quote


Damn! You’re killing it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:55:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


IMHO, it’s money well spent.  If it was 3X the price, I’d still get one.
View Quote


has good reviews, and the arfcom stamp of approval.

For me its in addition to MTB.

I've got pretty reasonable cardio, but big down hill chunky rides my core and upper body start to get tired and I get sloppy and start making mistakes.

after a lot of thought a rower seemed like the best tool to fix that.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 1:07:31 AM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 1:08:51 AM EDT
[#50]
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