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Posted: 1/4/2006 6:50:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
At the request of NorCal_LEO, here's my take on getting into the fire biz.
It's not intended as a "everything you need to know, all inclusive sure-fire way to get hired" post, but it is my take on getting started in the business of being a firefighter. To all my future brothers and sisters, I look forward to working next to you at "the big one" someday. Good luck in your pursuit! This post will address Volunteer & Part time FD’s. 
Original Thread here Here's my advice, FWIW: Call the Fire Department's non-emergency number, and speak to the Department Secretary, if they have one; otherwise, one of the FF's hanging out at the station will usually answer the phone, or else the dispatcher will. Ask them what night of the week training / drill / meeting is, and at what time. Explain your interest. Most VFD/PTFD's have an evening drill (practice) one night a week, usually about 4 hours long. They also usually have a "business" or "association" meeting, to handle the paperwork and "official business" of the Department. Show up a little ahead of time, bring a copy of your DL and your DD-214, as well as your dive certs and log book. You may have to submit to a physical / psych / drug screen - or you could get on if you're able to breathe. FD's vary widely in requirements, especially for V & P/T. Don't worry about the F/T'rs bashing the vollys. I've been F/T for 13 years, and a member of a VFD for 16. Most of the F/T's outside of the big cities (Chicago, NY, LA, but even many of these guys do) come from VFD or P/T experience. When you're fighting a fire, the fire doesn't care if you're making $60k or $5. And if a department calls for help from the next town over, they'll just be happy to see "big red" pull around the corner no matter if it's from a F/T or V FD.
Too true, FireBlade. 71% per US Bureau of Labor Statistics... but they only rate departments that pay for services in some way or another... so a true "volunteer" FD (the few that are still around) wouldn't count, AFAIK. From FEMA & USFA
71+17 = 89% volly / mostly volly. Let the insecure laugh. Fire doesn't care how much you're making to be there. As I told my mom when I started @ my VFD, and she made a crack once about me "not doing it for real" ... "professional" is a mindset and an attitude, not a pay classification. Besides, old man fire doesn't care how much you're making to be there - he just wants to burn you. Your FD may be a true "volunteer" gig (no $ reimbursement), or it could fall under one of the following general types: Paid-On-Call - basically, you become an hourly employee for the duration of the call. Usually for minimum wage, this allows you to be covered by the Municipality's Workman's Comp insurance more easily than a true volunteer gig. Paid-Per-Call - you receive a flat stipend to reimburse you for the duration of the call, no matter how long. Part-Time / Call-Standby - you receive a token compensation for being on call (say, $5 for 12 hours), and a higher rate if you actually respond to an incident - either hourly or per-call as above. There are about a gazillion variations. If you're paid, you'll either be an employee of the Municipality (Village, Town, WTF), the Fire Department or Fire Protection District. (Differences in how they receive and administer their tax and fee-for-service revenues) Now for the fun stuff: Good things: A feeling of contribution to the community. Being a part of a team of folks in a "High Speed - Low Drag" business. (Memo to my brothers in LE - I know, I know the only "High speed" we do is to the bakery in the morning, and then "low drag" is greasing the la-z-boy. Gimme a break ) A chance to make a hands-on difference on a real level, not just sit on the curb and hope someone else takes care of it... or drive by and pretend not to see. Drive the big red truck and make the "woo woo" noise. Be a firefighter. It's still right up there for little kids with Cowboy and Indian Chief for careers. Bad things: Trainings and meeting can put a strain on your domestic situation. So can the pager lighting off at 0300. Or just as you sit down for dinner. Or as the movie starts. Or as you  (you get the idea) . In addition, you're going to see a side of humanity that many folks never do. You'll be dealing with folks that are at or near (or past) death - tragic losses of life and property. Kids, cars and houses all burn... some are replaceable, some aren't. It's gonna be your job to deal with it while those around you are losing their grasp of reality. In addition, you'll see blazing examples of modern technology keeping Mr. Darwin's theorems at bay in the form of drunks, druggies, and some folks that are just too stupid to have made it this far without mondo help. You'll also get "Mrs. Schmedlap" - the nice old lady who falls out of her wheelchair, and calls the boys in blue to pick her up again... And again... And again. Sometimes, she's nice enough to not do it at 0300. All of this stress can wreak real havoc with your spouse / SO & kids. In addition, many LE & FD spouses have problems with their loved one going off to work and potentially never coming home again. Ask your (intended) department if they have a way for spouses to become involved - either a "Ladies Auxiliary" , or regular social events (Xmas party, etc.) or some kind of support network for spouses. Sometimes it helps the wives to talk to each other and know that they're not the only ones staying up when we're out after the pager hits. Again, I wish you the best of luck, and thanks for getting off the couch and wanting to make a difference! Please let us know how it goes, and feel free to IM if you have any questions. More to follow shortly. Tango7 ("V"FD for 17 years, "FT" for 15) |
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Posted: 1/4/2006 6:53:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#1]
(apologies for the dupe from my VFD post - I'm on shift, and will edit as needed)
As far as full-time goes, there are a number of variations too: Private Industry Fire Brigades Federal Fire Service. Private companies doing municipal fire suppression (Metro, Rural-Metro, PSI, PSSI) Municipal FD's Fire Brigades: Usually a part time gig, done when there’s an emergency at the plant you work at. (Abbott Labs has one, most refineries and other big industry does as well). More akin to the VFD’s but you still get paid from your day job, and work at your work. F/T gigs for Brigades are pretty scarce, and they usually hire from within, or go to a Private Contractor to get staff. Private companies (contractors) do the FF gig for the Cities, but handle all the management of personnel for them. You are not a municipal government employee, are not sworn, and generally work "at will" of your employer. You may be unionized, but not through the IAFF, thus restricting your ability to redress issues. You will have limited choice of where you work, when you work, and who you work with. In addition, the vast majority of “Contract FF’s” are on a muni list somewhere. If there’s an guy who works contract who isn’t picked up before he’s 35, odds are he’s got something in his history that DQ’d him from getting hired. Not saying that the contracts are a bad place to start, but that alone should tell you something. ETA - since I wrote this years ago, I discovered that there are two other groups of folks pulling contract gigs - people who were too old for career when they discovered the business, and retired former full timers. After I retired in 2019, I got hired in 2020 by a contract service when my P/T decided to staff one medic spot per shift. Federal Fire Departments – my Alma Mater of paid gigs. Good things – ability to transfer to any .gov facility with a FFD – Army, Navy, and USMC bases usually have civilian FF’s (GS employees). Some AFB’s do, but IIRC most don’t. Some VA facilities do as well. Okay bennies. The new retirement plan sucks (glorified IRA) but OK if you plan; health coverage is great, and the Sick Leave accrual is decent. If you have former .mil time, it will usually transfer into your pension - so if you are USMC for 3 years, you still start @ day one pay, but you're three years closer to retirement. Lots of training. One of the neighboring FD’s called the Navy Base FD a “paper factory” – since they don’t have many fires, they train a lot, and you have a chance to get qualified in lots of skill areas. This makes these great as training grounds for working towards a spot on a Muni FD. Bad things – with the exception of the (Washington) DC FD, and certain VAFD’s – a 24/24 schedule. Unlike most muni FD’s (at least in my area) that work some form of 24/48’s (work 24, off 48), the feds work 24, then off 24. You’re going to or coming from work every day. Side gigs are tough, and a marriage is tougher. ETA2 - the base I used to work at adopted 48/48's. Ugh. I can't imagine that as a daily grind. Federal certification doesn’t always transfer to the civilian (muni) side. A lack of fires.   Cal your local base's Civilian Personnel Office for info. Municipal FD/FPD's (including City/Villages, Townships, Counties, and Districts here) Most Muni FD's hire through a Board or Commission. (Some don’t – be careful) Most municipalities are required to establish lists on a certain schedule - depending on State law - from annually to "whenever" (ask the guys who sat on Chicago's list for 12 years). Usually it's every two to three years. They advertise in the local papers, as well as post at City Hall or the FPD headquarters station. Call or stop by the FD you're looking into and see when they start their next testing cycle (when their current list expires). The Board establishes criteria for applicants, sets testing schedules, regulates the testing procedure, performs background screenings and oral interviews to establish "the list", which is usually compiled from all the applicants that successfully complete the following: Written Application: usually accompanied by a fee ($10-$50), it asks name, address, DOB, criminal history, military experience. Some ask about financial history, and personal and professional references. Many require a fingerprint card to be completed by the local PD and submitted with the app. Written Examination: a general knowledge test with some FF knowledge helpful. Only a few FD tests actually use real world FF skills in writing their questions. Physical Agility Examination: anything from run/jump/situps to an actual FF skills simulation with ladder climb, dummy drag, and hose lifting, or a combination thereof. ETA3 - most agencies are utilizing the Candidate Physical Aptitude Test, or CPAT (link). This test consists of: "a pass/fail test based on a validated maximum total time of 10 minutes and 20 seconds. In these events, you wear a 50-pound (22.68-kg) vest to simulate the weight of self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) and firefighter protective clothing. An additional 25 pounds (11.34 kg), using two 12.5-pound (5.67-kg) weights that simulate a high-rise pack (hose bundle), is added to your shoulders for the stair-climb event. Throughout all events, you must wear long pants, a hard hat with chin strap, work gloves, and footwear with no open heel or toe. Watches and loose or restrictive jewelry are not permitted. The events and distances between events are always the same... The events are placed in a sequence that best simulates fire scene events while allowing an 85-foot (25.91-m) walk between events. To ensure the highest level of safety and to prevent exhaustion, no running is allowed between events. This walk allows you approximately 20 seconds to recover and regroup before each event. Event 1: Stair Climb - For the test, you must walk on the StepMill at a set stepping rate of 60 steps per minute for 3 minutes Event 2: Hose Drag - For this event, you must grasp a hoseline nozzle attached to 200 feet (60 m) of 1 3/4-inch (44-mm) hose. Place the hoseline over your shoulder or across your chest, not exceeding the 8-foot (2.24-m) mark. You are permitted to run during the hose drag. Drag the hose 75 feet (22.86 m) to a prepositioned drum, make a 90 degree turn around the drum, and continue an additional 25 feet (7.62 m). Stop within the marked 5 foot x 7 foot (1.52 m x 2.13 m) box, drop to at least one knee and pull the hoseline until the hoseline's 50-foot (15.24 m) mark crosses the finish line. Event 3: Equipment Carry - This event uses two saws and a tool cabinet replicating a storage cabinet on a fire truck. For this event, you must remove the two saws from the tool cabinet, one at a time, and place them on the ground. Pick up both saws, one in each hand, and carry them while walking 75 feet (22.86 m) around the drum, then back to the starting point. You are permitted to place the saw(s) on the ground and adjust your grip. Upon return to the tool cabinet, place the saws on the ground, pick up each saw one at a time, and replace the saw in the designated space in the cabinet. Event 4: Ladder Raise and Extension - This event is designed to simulate the critical tasks of placing a ground ladder at a fire structure and extending the ladder to the roof or window. For this event, you must walk to the top rung of the 24-foot (7.32-m) aluminum extension ladder, lift the unhinged end from the ground, and walk it up until it is stationary against the wall. This must be done in a hand over hand fashion, using each rung until the ladder is stationary against the wall. You must not use the ladder rails to raise the ladder. Immediately proceed to the prepositioned and secured 24-foot (7.32 m)aluminum extension ladder, stand with both feet within the marked box of 36 inches x 36 inches (91.44 cm x 91.44 cm), and extend the fly section hand over hand until it hits the stop. Then, lower the fly section hand over hand in a controlled fashion to the starting position. The ladder is hinged/anchored, so it's nowhere near as challenging as doing in on the fireground. Event 5: Forcible Entry - This event uses a mechanized device located 39 inches (1 m) off the ground that measures cumulative force from a 10-pound (4.54-kg) sledgehammer. For this event, you must use a 10-pound (4.54 kg) sledgehammer to strike the measuring device in the target area until the buzzer is activated. During this event, you must keep your feet outside the toe-box at all times. After the buzzer is activated, place the sledgehammer on the ground. Event 6: Search - This event is designed to simulate the critical task of searching for a fire victim with limited visibility in an unpredictable area. For this event, you must crawl through a tunnel maze that is approximately 3 feet (91.44 cm) high, 4 feet (121.92 cm) wide and 64 feet (19.51 m) in length with two 90 degree turns. At a number of locations in the tunnel, you must navigate around, over, and under obstacles. In addition, at two locations, you must crawl through a narrowed space where the dimensions of the tunnel are reduced. Event 7: Rescue - For this event, you must grasp a 165-pound (74.84 kg) mannequin by the handle(s) on the shoulder(s) of the harness (either one or both handles are permitted), drag it 35 feet (10.67 m) to a prepositioned drum, make a 180 degree turn around the drum, and continue an additional 35 feet (10.67 m) to the finish line...The entire mannequin must be dragged until it crosses the marked finish line. Event 8: Ceiling Breach and Pull - For this event, you must remove the pike pole from the bracket, stand within the boundary established by the equipment frame, and place the tip of the pole on the painted area of the hinged door in the ceiling. Fully push up the 60-pound hinged door in the ceiling with the pike pole three times. Then, hook the pike pole to the 80-pound ceiling device and pull the pole down five times. Each set consists of three pushes and five pulls. Repeat the set four times. Oral Interview: The Board (or other predetermined individuals) who may or may not be FF’s will ask you a series of questions, usually reading off of 3x5 index cards. Things like “why do you want to be a FF?” hint – avoid the phrase “because I want to help people!”  “What do you do if you see you coworker steal something on a call?” hint – tell your company officer – usually a LT.… etc.From here, you get placed on “The List”. You usually have 2 versions – the Initial or Preliminary Eligibility List is without .mil (veteran) points. If you’ve served (your state law determines how many points for how long), you can apply to have the points added to your score. The Revised or Final Eligibility List is with .mil points applied. Hint: if your .mil points won’t bump you above somebody else, don’t use them. Many states restrict your use of vet points to once in your career. Save ‘em for the LT’s test. In addition, many FD’s offer “points for paper” i.e. if you already have your basic training (in IL it’s FFII), EMT or Paramedic certification, you get extra points added for those skills (and saving the FD money). Some municipalities (actually the pension boards of the FD) allow you to "buy in" your time spent with .mil. Not everybody does, and it's usually a fair chunk of change to do it. But if you can , it put you that much closer to your EOS date... usually min 20 years / age 50. The FD usually hires in order off the list, barring federal interference, like “adjustments” for past quota compliance issues.  If you're selected, you'll get a time and date to show up for your medical screening examination. This is a glorified physical, where they'll check you for pre-existing injuries and medical conditions. They'll also "drop" you for drug screening. If you're on the list, stay off the weed .  , Our physical consists of an audiometric screening, vision test, EKG, weight carry, flexibility test, and a general physical. Some FD's will have you run the treadmill.During the preliminary phase you may also be subject to a psychological examination. Don't tell the shrink that you "wanna be a freman 'cuz burning stuff is kewl".  (I never understood the good of a psych screening for folks that are running in to a building that every critter with half a lick of common sense runs out of, but hey, I just shop, mop, and ride backwards)  During your probationary period  you’ll probably go through the following training:Firefighter Academy – usually 240 hours full time at a local Academy (FD). You’ll learn how & why things burn, and what to use to put them out; building construction, vehicle extrication and tools. How to pull hose off the engine, and how to re-fold it into place (repeat until exhausted). How to work in the bulky clothes, heavy gear, and SCBA you need to survive & thrive inside a 750 ° environment. Hazardous Materials & Technical Rescue (Awareness) – two one week (40 hour) classes that teach you the chemicals are bad, and holes are deep. Leave them for the idiots who enjoy that sort of thing.  Many times you’ll be going to Emergency Medical Technician class and then to Paramedic class – but that depends on whether or not your FD provides EMS or not. Sometimes those are options (for more $$) for folks that have been around a while. Take them if you can. Good things: (stolen from my original post, and modd’d for application here) A feeling of contribution to the community. Being a part of a team of folks in a "High Speed - Low Drag" business. (Memo to my brothers in LE - I know, I know the only "High speed" we do is to the bakery in the morning, and then "low drag" is greasing the la-z-boy. Gimme a break ) Being part of a brotherhood that means something. A chance to make a hands-on difference on a real level, not just sit on the curb and hope someone else takes care of it... or drive by and pretend not to see. (Municipal & .gov service) – working towards a 20 year pension of 50%, paid sick leave, vacation, and training. For guys - chicks dig firemen!  Drive the big red truck and make the "woo woo" noise. Be a firefighter. It's still right up there for little kids with Cowboy and Indian Chief for careers; and the coolest thing is, you’re making a living doing it. Bad things: For girls, some guys are intimidated by female firefighters. In addition, you can be straight as the day is long, but there will still be some folks who will question your orientation for wanting to do such a "butch" job. Forewarned is forearmed. When you’re doing it on a regular schedule, it means that you work every third day. This includes weekends. And holidays. And the day your daughter takes her first steps. And your Son’s graduation day. Your ability to take time off will be dependent on some guy who thinks that, just because he’s been on the job longer than you’ve been alive, he has some right to have your anniversary off instead of you. Deal with it, be PO’d until he retires, or go back to the 9-to-5 world. The "traditional" firefighter scehdule is alos exempt from the FLSA - meaning you'll be working 50+ hours in a week w/o OT. Of course, you're getting paid to sleep (if your customers let you), so it's not too bad a deal. In addition, many FD’s are bitchy about Sick Leave use. Kind of ironic, since we transport sick folks as part of the job, but hey... someone needs to answer the bells, right? Unfortunately, when the wife or kids are illin’, this can lead to domestic friction. You're also going to see a side of humanity that many folks never do. You'll be dealing with folks that are at or near (or past) death - tragic losses of life and property. Kids, cars and houses all burn... some are replaceable, some aren't. It's gonna be your job to deal with it while those around you are losing their grasp of reality. And doing this day in and day out will tend to give you an “us” v. “them” mindset similar to our brothers on the PD’s and SD’s. It doesn’t mean that you’re becoming insensitive, it means that you are developing coping skills to deal with the woman giving birth to what used to be a baby (before it died inside her two months earlier) who had zero prenatal care, or the “mother” who “disciplined” her child by strangling it with an extension cord, or the old man who dies alone in his house surrounded by memories (and piles of old newspapers, last week’s dinner, and cats) who has an answering machine full of “sorry, Uncle X, we won’t be there this week” messages. You have to see and soak all that up, but still be nice to the person on the next call. In addition, you'll see blazing examples of modern technology keeping Mr. Darwin's theorems at bay in the form of drunks, druggies, and some folks that are just too stupid to have made it this far without mondo help. You'll also get "Mrs. Schmedlap" - the nice old lady who falls out of her wheelchair, and calls the boys in blue to pick her up again... And again... And again. Sometimes, she's nice enough to not do it at 0300. All of this stress can wreak real havoc with your spouse / SO & kids. In addition, many LE & FD spouses have problems with their loved one going off to work and potentially never coming home again. Ask your (intended) department or Union if they have a way for spouses to become involved - either a "Ladies Auxiliary" , or regular social events (Xmas party, etc.) or some kind of support network for spouses. Sometimes it helps the wives to talk to each other and know that they're not the only ones staying up the nightswhen we're at work. Again, I wish you the best of luck, and thanks for getting off the couch and wanting to make a difference! While I definitely believe that this job isn't for everyone, if it works for you there's nothing else like it. And as someone who got PMR'd from Uncle, who never thought he'd get the chance to do it, I'm thankful every day I wake up to go to work for the chance to do something I love, and I hope you get to have the same feeling. Please let us know how it goes, and feel free to IM if you have any questions. Tango7, Firefighter / Paramedic. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2006 3:53:06 PM EDT
[#2]
+1
In California, many departments are a combination of FT and Paid-Call firefighters. Call your local county FD and ask them if they have a Reserve or PCF program. Most of the rural areas do, especially those covered by "Schedule A" California Department of Fire and Forestry (new name) contracts. The number is either in the front cover of your phone book, or in the Government section. In my county, our PCFs are trained in house, over the course of several 2-night/1 weekend day weeks. By the time this training is over, only the basics have been taught, and the FT and PCF officers take over and continue the training over the course of regular training nights, arranged extra training, and limited on-scene work. Once the officers are confident of the trainee's ability, then they can remove the trainee designation from their helmet. Regular company training is scheduled once a month, and includes a business meeting; multi-company drills and trainings are also once a month; specialized trainings are usually every 2-3 months and are scheduled for 8 hours on the weekends. Another option for training is to pay your own way through a fire academy. This will be a 5-month 40-hour week class, or an 8-month 2-night/2-weekend-day class. Expect to pay from $1500 to $3000 depending on class materials, lab/material fees, and uniform/equipment costs. At the end of this, you will have at least the following certifications (probably more): Firefighter 1 57-hour CDF Wildland Firefighter HazMat Operations Rescue Systems 1 These certs will get you hireable by any fire department in the state, especially as a seasonal Firefighter with CDF. CDF begins hiring seasonals with an application period in January, interviews in March and April, hiring and additional training in April and May, and in a station on an engine on either May 15, June 1, or June 15 depending on where in the state you are accepted. These certs are also recognized by many other states and Federal agencies as proof of training, and will allow you to get their equivalent certifications. More as I remember it. I'm also at work (on lunch) and don't have a lot of time. |
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Posted: 2/28/2006 3:44:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Great posts.
In my area once you volunteer ALL training and education is free. Right up through FF2, Hazmat OPS, Rescue tech, and EMt-P. More than a few have moved to the aea just to take a basic jo for a couple years, soak up every free class available, and move on to paid gigs. The Paramedic alone is a whole lot of $$$ if you had to pay for it on your own. I can't wait for this deployment to end so I can get back on the big red truck! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2006 10:52:36 AM EDT
[#4]
First things first...don't assume that you want to be a firefighter because you want to help people. That's too easy of an answer...and you won't always be much help . If you pull up on a major 10-50 with a fatality, and all you're doing is extracting a dead body, then you're not helping that person much at all. Or if you are responding to a fully involved mobile home fire when you know that it's going to be a total loss, you're not likely to feel very helpful to the family of four that used to live there. In both of those cases, if your greatest desire is to help people, then you might as well roll up and leave because you're not being honest with yourself. However, if you are truly looking to become a part of something that is much bigger than yourself, and you can back the brother (or sister) standing next to you...with your own life if need be, then being a firefighter can give you that. If you can check your ego at the door and realize that the beast can teach even the most seasoned jake a new lesson or two; if you're willing to take advantage of every opportunity to glean from the experience of others that do what you do, then being a firefighter will give you the chance to do just that. If you can accept the fact that you won't always be able to breathe life back into the child who you pulled from the rich family's pool; that every rescue attempt is just that...an attempt...and that just sometimes, you're fortunate enough to beat the odds, and you will only know that the child may live because she puked in your mouth while you were doing mouth to mouth on her; if you can live with the fact that dispatch can and will give you less information than you really need, and sometimes even the info they do give you is inaccurate AND that the public will not always look fondly upon you because of it; if you can ignore the back breaking pain and fatigue induced by wearing full structural gear, an airpack, and pulling a fully charged 2-1/2" line because your entire interior hose team is relying on you to, then you may posess a minimum of what it takes to be a firefighter. Don't go into this job wanting to be a hero. Your shoulders aren't big enough to bear the burden that comes with wearing that t-shirt. Mine aren't either. My team, my brothers and sisters, are my heroes, and they probably don't even know it. Remember that a firefighter is just a member of a team that does what a lot of other people can't, don't, or won't do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+1 I've said that if stupidity were power, East Texas would be a nuclear reactor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And you just can't be angry with her because she IS so apologetic and thankful you came...and you realize that someday, you could be in the same situation. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2006 9:38:04 AM EDT
[#5]
also remember that fema is now requiring you to take nims classes also.
and also every department is different. Caller or go in and talk to them, they will be able to anwser any questions that this good write-up won't be able to anwser. Lt. AWDTerror St, Robert City Fire and Rescue |
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Posted: 9/3/2006 7:36:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 444]
[#6]
FWIW:
Speaking only for the department that I work for (Clark County FD, Las Vegas NV): the biggest asset to getting hired is a paramedic certification. On our department, this trumps any amount of previous fire experience, fire science degree, or whatever. Second, is physical fitness. The process to get hired is long and hard. A lot of people who have every other base covered can't hack it physically. Biggest shock for many people about this job: We do very little actual firefighting and a whole lot of other stuff. By FAR is EMS. We responded on 103,944 calls last year. 76,120 of them were medical. The other biggest surprise is that the VAST majority of calls we respond to are NOT emergencies (dispite what dispatch tries to make you believe). http://www.co.clark.nv.us/fire/firedept.htm |
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Posted: 9/4/2006 4:39:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Well said 444. Especially with the advent of the "Associate Paramedic Degree" (aka the two years of hell that used to be the year of hell) a lot of departments are looking at the pocketbook, and a Medic patch saves them time and $.
If possible, follow the ARFCOM maxim: Get Both! |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2006 10:44:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Greetings all. I tend to lurk a lot but I've never been a big poster.
Just found this thread and all I can say is, "Wow!". I had absolutely no idea what kind of hoops you have to jump through to get OTJ in other parts of the country. The bureaucracy, the out of pocket expense, etc, etc... Unreal. If I had to do all that, I probably would've ended up being a mailman. ; ) Honestly though, I think I'm gonna print this thread out, make copies and take them to the firehouse. Then, the next time one of the Brothers is bitchin' about work, I'll just hand them a copy and tell 'em to STFU. Be safe. "This could be the night." |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2006 8:01:19 AM EDT
[#9]
join the military(air force or marines), get as many certifications as you can, get out and start applying...i say AF or MC because i beleive their firefighter system is better than say the army who has mainly civilians at the conus bases, most of your duty stations are overseas. the training and certification system is just as good but duty stations are limited. the navy says, "everyone is a firefighter" but only certain ratings(jobs) actually go to the DoD fire school. all services can apply to become fire instructors at the school house but it is predominantly air force. i think the marines have it all in one tho if you still wanna play g.i. joe.
or volunteer somewhere for a looooooooong time, wait for a hiring cycle, take the tests, get picked up, be on probation for a year |
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Posted: 9/13/2006 7:25:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#10]
Originally Posted By dukduk:
join the military(air force or marines), get as many certifications as you can, get out and start applying... A good idea, if only for the "veteran's points". Unfortunately, in this hodgepdge world we live in, some states will accept DoD firefighting and rescue training, some won't. As an example, the base I worked at used to train all it's guys to the IL standards. Then DoD said it wanted the civilian guys to get fedgov standards, and they wouldn't accept IL FF II (or III, or engineer), so all these guys had to go back through and re-test. 
Hell, we don't even have any real inter-state reciprocity for most FF certs... not even a "test in" allowance like many offer for Medic. The one bennie is if you go to work at a base somewhere (or other fedgov service like VA) then your training (and retirement) should carry over. or volunteer somewhere for a looooooooong time, wait for a hiring cycle, take the tests, get picked up, be on probation for a year
Always an option. |
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Posted: 7/23/2007 3:10:32 AM EDT
[#11]
I learned something this week while in an ARFF (Airport FF) school. The class was taught by Huntsville, Al. Int Airport in combination with Redstone Arsenal, also in Hunstville, AL.
Classroom was done mainly at HIA, Pit fire and final at RA. If you are young and better yet single or have a spouse who doesn't mind travel and your being away from home so often. I would very seriously give becoming a DOD Firefighter serious consideration. Prerequisites, FF 1 & 2, ARFF, and Haz-Mat Tech, all pro-board certified . A FF can knock down 100k working overtime and also take a job where there is an opening at any DOD FS, the majority of which are on Military bases, with a large emphesis on aircraft crash rescue and Haz-Mat incidents. There are lots of ops to travel around the country and world. The only down side, they work 24 on 24 off, but they get 3 days off every 3rd shift, and 5 days every 7th, or something like that. You don't have to be a medic, or prior Military, but both help. If I were doing it all over again, and knew then what I know now, this is exactly the route I would take, no question. Also as I understand it, they are really looking for people. Max age in 37 which puts me out  .
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NH, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2007 9:29:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Hi all,
I've been visiting this site for a while now and found this post the other day. VERY well written by everyone and very comprehensive. This is an excellent guide. One thought/idea I can add is to check on whatever retirement system/pension plan is for the state you're in. In NH Firefighters and Police/Sheriff/corrections are all in the same retirement system. As I was volunteering and getting through all of my certs (firefighting and EMS) I became a corrections officer so that when I got hired I already had over 3 years into the retirement system. Also look into what benefit packages the Dept(s) you are interested in have to offer like Health insurance, Dental, Supplemental retirement investments. etc, etc. Every city is different. These things might not seem important at the start of your career but they could be down the road. I have a small child with many medical problems and all I can say is if we didn't have good health insurance we would have had to sell our house to pay the bills. It wasn't even a thought for me in my 20's but now we’d be in deep financial trouble without good insurance. Check to see if the FT Dept(s) you're interested in allow people to "ride along" or if they have a call force and ride often or join the call force. They will remember who you are if they see you often, but don't overdo it or appear too eager either. If you show that you're motivated and eager to learn that goes a long way when it comes time for interviews. Be prepared to make some big commitments and to have a long road ahead of you. You will probably have to take many classes at night and work a fulltime job during the day along with time "on call", and training meetings with your department(s) while you're getting your certs. On our Dept EMS certification is more important than fire certs when it's time for hiring people. Also be honest with your volunteer Dept about the fact that you want to go fulltime eventually. And once you are activley looking into getting hired, either entrance testing or on a hire list, let them know. That way they can plan accordingly. Having said that, don't become an FF/EMTanything, paid or vol, if you're not going to try to be good at whatever level you choose. People call us when they are having the worst days of their lives. You will see things you never thought possible. You will see some things you wished you had never seen. You will have days where nothing can get you down, and days you will want to quit. We are not heroes, there are no such things as heroes, there are only people who are willing to do what needs to be done when nobody else will. Stay safe.... |
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Posted: 12/8/2007 8:50:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#13]
Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike:
snip Some good advice there. (Welcome aboard and thanks for the compliment BTW  ).
In WI, most FD's are part of the State retirement system, along with lots of other .gov jobs... you can move from being a teacher to a janitor to a cop to a firefighter and not lose pension credits. You'll start at the bottom of the pay and vacation scales (AFAIK), but you'll keep your years. FEDGOV works the same way, and allows you to "keep" time in .mil service towards retirement. In Illannoys, most towns run their own FD and PD pensions, if only because it provides more flexibility than going with the state (IMRF) system. We also just (3 years ago) got "pension portability", that allows us to transfer "creditable time" from one FD to another; much like the ability to transfer your $$ from a company cafeteria plan to a private 401k. Once again, you have to start at the bottom for pay and vacation, but you can still retire around your original EOS date. We are not heroes, there are no such things as heroes, there are only people who are willing to do what needs to be done when nobody else will.
That's sigline material there. Not bad for a 1st post.
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Posted: 12/8/2007 9:09:10 AM EDT
[#14]
"One thought/idea I can add is to check on whatever retirement system/pension plan is for the state you're in. In NH Firefighters and Police/Sheriff/corrections are all in the same retirement system. As I was volunteering and getting through all of my certs (firefighting and EMS) I became a corrections officer so that when I got hired I already had over 3 years into the retirement system. "
This is very good advice. I work for the county. We have guys that had worked for the traffic light division, Parks & Rec., the county hospital, etc. that got on the fire department and got credit for their previous county time towards retirement. We get longevity pay and some of them started getting longevity pay their first day in the academy (normally takes five years) because they already had five years with the county. In addition, we are allowed to "buy time". Once you get on five years, you can buy retirement time: you pay for it out of your pocket; if you bought five years, you work 20 and retire with a 25 year pension as an example. The price of buying time depends on a number of factors including what you make, how many years you have on the job, your age etc. If you had worked for the county previously, that is all the sooner you can buy time and the price will be much lower because you arn't making as much when you first start out. Even better, we have guys working in training, the mechanical division, the warehouse, etc. that arn't firefighters but are working for the fire department. If they get hired as firefighters, they get credit for all that time with no strings attached: if they want to take a promontional test that requires five years on the job, they can take it the first day out of the academy even if they put in that five years working as a mechanic for the FD. |
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Posted: 12/9/2007 11:08:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#15]
Originally Posted By 444:
Thanks for the input! 
Even better, we have guys working in training, the mechanical division, the warehouse, etc. that arn't firefighters but are working for the fire department. If they get hired as firefighters, they get credit for all that time with no strings attached: if they want to take a promontional test that requires five years on the job, they can take it the first day out of the academy even if they put in that five years working as a mechanic for the FD.
 HUH!?  
Dunno if I agree with that. I can see buying pension time towards retirement, but I'd rather have an Ell-Tee (or Engineer / whatever next step up the ladder is) that knows which rigs roll for what calls and how the districts are set up that someone who still has price tags on their gear. |
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Posted: 12/10/2007 8:06:37 AM EDT
[#16]
That kind of stuff doesn't take long to learn, but it doesn't really matter: the alarm goes off and tells them who is going and where.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2007 11:20:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#17]
Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By 444:
Thanks for the input!
[div class='quoteStyle']Even better, we have guys working in training, the mechanical division, the warehouse, etc. that arn't firefighters but are working for the fire department. If they get hired as firefighters, they get credit for all that time with no strings attached: if they want to take a promontional test that requires five years on the job, they can take it the first day out of the academy even if they put in that five years working as a mechanic for the FD. HUH!?
Dunno if I agree with that. I can see buying pension time towards retirement, but I'd rather have an Ell-Tee (or Engineer / whatever next step up the ladder is) that knows which rigs roll for what calls and how the districts are set up that someone who still has price tags on their gear. I have to say I totally agree with Tango on that one. It is more than just what is going to where. Theres building layouts, water supply, vehicle extrications, EMS calls, what the capabilities are of each apparatus and what equipment is onboard and where, what each firefighters strengths and weaknesses are, the list goes on. A LOT of what this job is about is learning on the job. You get the basics in your training and classes but it is just that.... training and classes..... in a controlled environment. No matter how good a simulation is it never truly represents what happens in real life. I wouldn't want to work for some guy who just got OTJ and didn't have any real world experience, No matter how many classes or certifications they had. It takes time to gain the experience needed to manage the million different things that could go wrong or different on any call. I also think it's wrong that someone who was doing whatever for x years can get hired and get seniority for that time that he/she was doing whatever over anyone who was actually on the job Just my thoughts... Stay safe |
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Posted: 2/3/2008 11:16:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Since I just finished the long, tedious path of applying, testing, and finally getting hired (yay!) as a full-time career Firefighter/Paramedic, I'll post a little more about the actual process of getting hired.
Note: This is all based on PERSONAL experience, so where you live and apply might be slightly different, or totally different, so do your research. Applying First you have to decide WHERE (as in what general area) you want to apply. It might be where you live, might be somewhere else. Then you have to research the depts in that area. DO NOT get attached to one dept necessarily. I guess if you really want to work for FDNY or Chicago (they just closed a list 10 yrs old, so yeah they were hiring guys 10 yrs after they tested), you can do it, but you might be waiting awhile. Some depts want you to be certified before they will hire you, some will train you. Here in Texas, a Paramedic certification is a BIG deal, so it helps greatly your chances of getting hired if you have it. Also, realize that most FDs run mostly EMS calls, with Fire/Rescue calls being a much smaller number of runs. Once you have identified Depts that interest you, do some research. Most depts have a website where you can read about them etc. You'll also need to see what their hiring requirements are, and if/when they are hiring. Many depts establish a list of qualified applicants and hire from that, either for a certain period of time, or until they get to the bottom. So now you've established that said dept is hiring, and you meet the requirements. Time to fill out the application. At some depts this is merely a short form to register to take the written test, at others it might be the entire application w/ job history, etc. Just remember to be honest Testing. Note, some depts may not do all these things, or do them in a different order. Once again, you'll have to do some of your own research to see what its like where you are applying. Written Test First off, BE ON TIME for this, and every other step of the way, not only does it look bad, you can be disqualified. Use the guide of 'if you aren't 30 mins early, you are late', and you'll be ok. One guy showed up at a written test I took late because he thought it started at 0930, when it started at 0900. He went home. In the course of my testing 'career' I took 4 written tests, and they were all different. 3 of the tests were aptitude based tests, where you had to do simple math, read short paragraphs and answer questions, etc. Usually once you have signed up for the written test, the FD will either send you a study guide, or tell you where you can get one. If not, there are plenty of prep books on Amazon, etc. The other test was a knowledge based test where I was asked questions about Fire and EMS. The dept told us what textbooks the questions came from prior to the test so we could study. This was by far the hardest test. I made an 86 and was ranked #1 on the list. Which brings me to my next point. Some FDs use the test to establish a list, whereas some use it as a Pass/Fail. If the FD established a list, then usually the top X number of applicants are allowed to move to the next step, if its a Pass/Fail criteria, then usually everyone who passed goes on to the next step. If your test generated a list, and you were not in the top X number of applicants, that doesn't mean you are done, many times they will come back to the list and take more people from it. Also, most FDs will give you extra points on the test if you have mil experience. So now you have taken the written, passed, and been selected to move on, next up: Physical Agility In many cases this test is run like an obstacle course, where you go from station to station completing various fireground tasks in a certain amount of time. They are not hard tasks, and you can do them without any FF experience, but it is helpful. Also, many FD's will have a practice session before the real thing so you get a chance to see what it is like. GO TO THIS, it usually will give you a couple of weeks to see what you need to improve on. Usually you get one chance, sometimes if you can't do it the first try, you might get a 'retry'. In my experience these are not that hard if you are in any sort of physical condition. The best way to prepare for these tests is cardio and weightlifting. One test I ran in 9:13 and the time limit was 9:20 , and the other I ran in 7:40 and the time limit was 13 minutes or some ridiculous number.So if you've passed this step, you may either get told you will be called for the next step, or scheduled for the next step right there (usually oral interview). This is also usually when you get the full application, if you haven't already filled one out. Background Check So now you have this giant 'Personal History' packet in front of you (or maybe its small in your case). They will ask you about EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVER DONE. When you finish this part they will know more about you than your Mother (seriously). BE HONEST, if they find out you lied, you are out FOREVER. Most depts don't care if you smoked some pot in high school, but if you dealt drugs, or used any kind of hallucinogen, thats usually a DQ. (Dallas PD however will hire you if you used cocaine!). They will ask you about your drinking habits, especially drinking and driving. I was asked if any family members were part of organizations dedicated to overthrowing the US govt. You will be asked to list every job you ever had, all the places you have lived, and usually references. I was also fingerprinted for one FD. Then you send them this packet (if you are close enough to take it in personally, do so, God forbid the USPS lose your packet). Now you wait as they call all your old bosses, your references, run you through databases, etc. Sometimes they might call you on clarifications on certain issues (I'm squeaky clean so I had no problems). Once you've passed all that, you are given a green light to keep on trucking to the next step. Oral Boards/Interview Now you have to talk to actual people! Sometimes this is a pass/fail step, while other times this step is where you get ranked. Again, show up early. Also, WEAR A SUIT. Beg borrow or steal one (just don't get caught ) if you have to. Also shower, shave, have clean/cut fingernails, etc. You can make up for being a less than stellar candidate if you need to at this step, but not if you look like a bum.You will be nervous, its ok, they are not going to eat you. Generally you will be interviewed by members of the dept selected to interview you. So they are thinking 'Do I want to work with this guy?' They will try and make you second guess yourself, so hold your ground on your answers. IF you are not a good speaker, practice at home with family/friends or a video camera. You will probably be asked 'what would you do' questions, as well as tell us about yourself, etc. Make eye contact with all the interviewers (one interview I had 12 people interviewing me, so that was a chore in itself), speak clearly and plainly. If you need to think for a second, thats fine, but don't spend 5 minutes doing so. To me this is the hardest part of the process, and you can't prepare really well until you've done one. My first panel interview I did miserably on, but my second two got me job offers, so hang in there! So you've gotten to this point, and passed/done well enough on all the steps. If they are ranking you on the oral interview, you will have to wait until all the candidates have done theirs to find out if you advance. The next step is: Chief's Interview This may seem scary, but it really isn't. The two I went two mainly consist of you sitting down with the Chief, he'll ask you about yourself, tell you about the department and his vision for it, and give you the chance to ask questions. You should have some. Its shows you are interested, and you may learn things about the dept that help YOU decide if you want to work there or not. I think a lot of FDs are so used to people wanting a job badly enough they will go anywhere they forget they are being selected too, in a sense. This is the step where I decided that one FD was not the place for me. The Chief couldn't answer a few of my (very basic) questions, didn't even know I was a Paramedic (though he had a two-inch thick file on me sitting on his desk, and told me it was a possibility I would be going to Fire Prevention instead of suppression right of the bat. SCREW THAT!! (I didn't tell him that during the interview though). So the Chief's interview is much more laid-back. After this part, usually he will give you whats called a conditional offer, which means if you pass the few steps left, you will get hired. So now you are getting to the point where you are like 'Lord let it end' Don't give up yet, you are almost there. Generally you have 3 steps left, so here they are in no particular order: Polygraph Remember the big 'Personal History' packet you filled out a while back? Now they are going to grill you to see if you are honest. I really didn't think this part was that bad. I took two, and actually the same guy did both, and he was pretty laid back. I have heard horror stories about it from other guys I know, but I didn't have any problems. They will ask you all sorts of questions while you are hooked up to the machine. Mine was almost boring. The poly measures your fear response to the questions, so just relax and answer the questions. They mostly use it as a tool to get you to change your answers, so stick to you guns, and you'll do fine Psychological Exam Here you will answer about a billion multiple choice personality questions. Usually they are the same 30 questions asked about 30 different ways. Just don't over analyze them, or try and 'control' the test by answering what you think they want to hear. Most of the questions don't have a right or wrong answer, they are looking for consistency. Then again one of the questions I was asked was something about seeing faces in the corner out of the corner of my eye. If you don't know what the answer to that question is, you probably aren't going to pass  You also might have to sit down with a Psychologist. My session was with a pleasant lady and I don't remember what we even talked about, or what she was looking for. Medical Exam Here they will get a complete medical history, do a physical exam, EKG, draw blood, Xrays, lung test, hearing and vision test, drug test, etc. Not a lot you can do to pass/fail this except don't do drugs. So if you got this far Congrats, you are now a Rookie Firefighter. If you are already certified, you will usually go through and orientation process specific to your Dept. If you aren't, you will have to go through the Academy/EMT school, etc. The learning has JUST started. 
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Posted: 2/3/2008 2:04:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#19]
Originally Posted By ZootTX:
Since I just finished the long, tedious path of applying, testing, and finally getting hired (yay!) as a full-time career Firefighter/Paramedic, I'll post a little more about the actual process of getting hired. Note: This is all based on PERSONAL experience, so where you live and apply might be slightly different, or totally different, so do your research. Applying
First you have to decide WHERE (as in what general area) you want to apply. It might be where you live, might be somewhere else. Then you have to research the depts in that area. DO NOT get attached to one dept necessarily. I guess if you really want to work for FDNY or Chicago (they just closed a list 10 yrs old, so yeah they were hiring guys 10 yrs after they tested), you can do it, but you might be waiting awhile. Some depts want you to be certified before they will hire you, some will train you. Here in Texas, a Paramedic certification is a BIG deal, so it helps greatly your chances of getting hired if you have it. Also, realize that most FDs run mostly EMS calls, with Fire/Rescue calls being a much smaller number of runs. You'll also need to see what their hiring requirements are, and if/when they are hiring.
Many depts establish a list of qualified applicants and hire from that, either for a certain period of time, or until they get to the bottom. So now you've established that said dept is hiring, and you meet the requirements.
Time to fill out the application. At some depts this is merely a short form to register to take the written test, at others it might be the entire application w/ job history, etc. Just remember to be honest Testing.
Note, some depts may not do all these things, or do them in a different order. Once again, you'll have to do some of your own research to see what its like where you are applying. Written Test First off, BE ON TIME for this, and every other step of the way, not only does it look bad, you can be disqualified. Use the guide of 'if you aren't 30 mins early, you are late', and you'll be ok. One guy showed up at a written test I took late because he thought it started at 0930, when it started at 0900. He went home. In the course of my testing 'career' I took 4 written tests, and they were all different.
3 of the tests were aptitude based tests, where you had to do simple math, read short paragraphs and answer questions, etc. Usually once you have signed up for the written test, the FD will either send you a study guide, or tell you where you can get one. If not, there are plenty of prep books on Amazon, etc. The other test was a knowledge based test where I was asked questions about Fire and EMS. The dept told us what textbooks the questions came from prior to the test so we could study. This was by far the hardest test. I made an 86 and was ranked #1 on the list. Also, many FD's will have a practice session before the real thing so you get a chance to see what it is like. GO TO THIS, it usually will give you a couple of weeks to see what you need to improve on. So if you've passed this step, you may either get told you will be called for the next step, or scheduled for the next step right there (usually oral interview). This is also usually when you get the full application, if you haven't already filled one out.
Background Check So now you have this giant 'Personal History' packet in front of you (or maybe its small in your case). They will ask you about EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVER DONE. When you finish this part they will know more about you than your Mother (seriously). BE HONEST, if they find out you lied, you are out FOREVER. Most depts don't care if you smoked some pot in high school, but if you dealt drugs, or used any kind of hallucinogen, thats usually a DQ. (Dallas PD however will hire you if you used cocaine!). They will ask you about your drinking habits, especially drinking and driving. He didn't make the cut.
2018 addition - when applying for my p/t FD I had to pee in a cup. Imagine my surprise - as well as those of the investigator - when I, a 20+ year sworn FTer popped positive for MDMA.
Turns out that psuedoephedrine - like the decongestant in my Zyrtec I take daily - is a precursor compound, and used to indicate possible use. Now it's just amusing, but if I hadn't listed all my Rx and OTC meds, it might have gotten awkward. Be honest and thorough in your disclosures. I was asked if any family members were part of organizations dedicated to overthrowing the US govt. You will be asked to list every job you ever had, all the places you have lived, and usually references. I was also fingerprinted for one FD. Then you send them this packet (if you are close enough to take it in personally, do so, God forbid the USPS lose your packet). Now you wait as they call all your old bosses, your references, run you through databases, etc. Sometimes they might call you on clarifications on certain issues Oral Boards/Interview
Now you have to talk to actual people! Sometimes this is a pass/fail step, while other times this step is where you get ranked. Again, show up early. Also, WEAR A SUIT. Beg borrow or steal one (just don't get caught ) if you have to. Also shower, shave, have clean/cut fingernails, etc. You can make up for being a less than stellar candidate if you need to at this step, but not if you look like a bum.
You will be nervous, its ok, they are not going to eat you. Generally you will be interviewed by members of the dept selected to interview you. So they are thinking 'Do I want to work with this guy?' They will try and make you second guess yourself, so hold your ground on your answers. IF you are not a good speaker, practice at home with family/friends or a video camera. You will probably be asked 'what would you do' questions, as well as tell us about yourself, etc. Make eye contact with all the interviewers (one interview I had 12 people interviewing me, so that was a chore in itself), speak clearly and plainly. If you need to think for a second, thats fine, but don't spend 5 minutes doing so. To me this is the hardest part of the process, and you can't prepare really well until you've done one. My first panel interview I did miserably on, but my second two got me job offers, so hang in there! Chief's Interview
This may seem scary, but it really isn't. The two I went two mainly consist of you sitting down with the Chief, he'll ask you about yourself, tell you about the department and his vision for it, and give you the chance to ask questions. You should have some. Its shows you are interested, and you may learn things about the dept that help YOU decide if you want to work there or not. I think a lot of FDs are so used to people wanting a job badly enough they will go anywhere they forget they are being selected too, in a sense. This is the step where I decided that one FD was not the place for me. The Chief couldn't answer a few of my (very basic) questions, didn't even know I was a Paramedic (though he had a two-inch thick file on me sitting on his desk, and told me it was a possibility I would be going to Fire Prevention instead of suppression right of the bat. SCREW THAT!! (I didn't tell him that during the interview though). So the Chief's interview is much more laid-back. After this part, usually he will give you whats called a conditional offer, which means if you pass the few steps left, you will get hired. I hope none of you have to face a similar situation. Polygraph
Psychological Exam Medical Exam
Here they will get a complete medical history, do a physical exam, EKG, draw blood, Xrays, lung test, hearing and vision test, drug test, etc. Not a lot you can do to pass/fail this except don't do drugs. In IL the FD Pensions are run by a separate legal entity (The "XYZ FD Pension Board") that consists of active & retired FF's, the Chief, and the treasurer/comptroller of the AHJ. The medical exam (except for th e drug screening) is actually performed for them, as they need to be sure you're medically capable of working for a 20-year career. And usually, you're only getting the medical after you get a job offer (most letters will say "...pending a medical evaluation"). So if you got this far Congrats, you are now a Rookie Firefighter. If you are already certified, you will usually go through and orientation process specific to your Dept. If you aren't, you will have to go through the Academy/EMT school, etc.
The learning has JUST started.
Thanks for the input, Zoot! Great post! 
ETA - finally got off my *ss and cleaned this up. Thanks again to Zoot for the input. |
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Posted: 2/3/2008 4:12:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Kind a addon to what I already posted:
As Tango pointed out networking will go a long way in getting you ahead of the pack. You'll be able to know more about how a certain dept operates and how their hiring process works. As I pointed out several times, the process varies wildly across the us. It also helps if people that already work there tell the guys on your crew 'Yeah I know this guy, he has his shit straight' This doesn't mean you aren't going to get treated like a rookie. I however took the plunge and accepted a job at an FD 150 miles from where I lived and didn't know a soul there. YMMV EMS runs = a fact of life, unless you work for a very large dept like FDNY, or Chicago, you are probably going to be required to get at least your EMT-B and spend some time on the box (ambulance). Here in TX FD based ALS level EMS is huge, and if having your medic isn't a requirement, its at least going to give you a leg up. Most cities simply don't have the fire volume to run a straight FD. In Texas, you can go to the Fire Commision's website and they will list most of the FD's that are hiring, ranging from very small ones to very large ones. The only ones that aren't posted are ones like Dallas, Ft. Worth, etc. Fees to test are unheard of around here. That does remind me, when you test, save a receipt for all your expenses (food, lodging, etc), they are tax deductible. I spent something like $1200 bucks on job search this year, so thats nice. If the Chief had been abusive to me during my interview, I would have walked out. Tango's point about leaving for greener pastures brings up another thing, look at a depts turnover rate, it shows how happy the guys are to work there. One of my buddies works for another local FD. They have a very high turnover rate, even though they are one of the higher paid FDs in the DFW area. My dept however, had 2 people leave in the past two years. My medical screening was done by the dept, they scheduled my through one of those 'Doc in a boxes' Here in TX the pension/retirement is up to the city. Mine goes through TMRS, which is the state municipal retirement system, but its not required. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/7/2008 10:08:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Hey brothers, Just found this section (always too much for me to read in others I guess.)
Some great points made in the previous post's ..Great insight how the process goes in other sections of the country. Having served in NY (in combo dept) and now in South Florida , I have seen 2 completely different versions of this thing of ours. In Florida , most depts. are Career and they require you to already have your certs to even apply. What I suggest to those who ask me is go to the academy first ( on your own dime) see if you can deal with a paramilitary style of job which needs the ability to deal with great stress to the mind and body. If after 400 plus hours of this and passing your state exam you still want to be in the fire service, then move onto EMT school for 3-4 months. There you will get your first taste of seeing people in their worse conditions first in class and text books then on your ER rotations and Ride alongs with local depts. Then comes Medic school.. 1 1/2 years of more school and about 5k out of your wallet. and more time in both the ER and Ride alongs and in some cases instructors who feel it is their job not to make Good medics but to fail those who they feel shouldn't be a medic.. Now if you have done all that, kept a roof over your head , paid your bills, don't have a Bad driving record or arrests. Haven't done drugs or the many things that can get you dropped from the progress of many depts. You can start applying.. Remember a few things when you start.. Always think before you write something on a app.. Be nice and polite to the HR ladies as they can influence your process. Always dress professional when going anywhere near the Dept before being hired as you never know who you may run into. Just because you have graduated doesn't mean your a firefighter yet.. don't run out for every fire Tee or union sticker you can . Be patient and earn the right.. I have one more thing for when you get on the job, Always be 30 minutes early for shift, stay away from the recliners, learn your zone and the Rigs and Probies are scene not heard.. hold your tongue unless it is to ask the Sr guys questions. and learn about the traditions and history ofthe fire service, you cant move forward with out knowing about the past. Train everyday, take as many classes as you can and ask questions.. Ira G Fire Instructor I FTM PTB EGH |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2008 11:08:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Adjuster]
[#22]
It can not be stated enough, when thinking about applying to a dept, LOOK AT THE QUALIFICATIONS NEEDED!! You don't want to show up to a smaller dept and try to apply thinking they will train you, when in actuality, you need to be certified. This makes you look bad.
If you have your certs and are going to a larger dept that will train you, don't expect to skip ahead of everyone because you already have your certs. I myself am in the process for the San Antonio FD. I have already passed the entrance exam, and am high on the list. Second - PAY ATTENTION TO THE DATES!!! If you miss one step you can be GONE!! With SAFD, the next step will be an explanation of the CPAT, which is their physical test. If you miss this, you are out. Then comes an untimed walk through of the CPAT. If you miss that you are out. Then you have two timed walk throughs of the CPAT, do not miss ONE, or you are out. That's right, you have to make both. THEN, comes the actual test. Not all hiring processes are quick. SA's process takes about a year and a half before you get put into the academy. Some people from the '07 test will be entering a class in Jan of '09. Be patient. |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:45:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#23]
Originally Posted By Adjuster:
It can not be stated enough, when thinking about applying to a dept, LOOK AT THE QUALIFICATIONS NEEDED!! You don't want to show up to a smaller dept and try to apply thinking they will train you, when in actuality, you need to be certified. This makes you look bad. If you have your certs and are going to a larger dept that will train you, don't expect to skip ahead of everyone because you already have your certs. Good points. And remember, bigger cities (like NY or CHI) will look at your FireFighter 69.5, all your class certificates and commendations and you'll still have to go through their basic fire academy, simply so they can say you were trained in the way that they do it. I myself am in the process for the San Antonio FD. I have already passed the entrance exam, and am high on the list.
Good luck Bro! Second - PAY ATTENTION TO THE DATES!!! If you miss one step you can be GONE!!
With SAFD, the next step will be an explanation of the CPAT, which is their physical test. If you miss this, you are out. Then comes an untimed walk through of the CPAT. If you miss that you are you. Then you have two timed walk throughs of the CPAT, do not miss ONE, or you are out. That's right, you have to make both. THEN, comes the actual test. I successfully appealed a missed interview due to a post office delivery issue, but it was a long and frustrating process, and one that you generally don't end up winning. Not all hiring processes are quick. SA's process takes about a year and a half before you get put into the academy. Some people from the '07 test will be entering a class in Jan of '09.
Be patient. When I worked at the Navy base in 1992, we had a guy get a call from Chicago. He had been placed in the list in 1982. That's right - ten years on the list. Patience is a virtue, and a necessity.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2008 10:37:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#24]
Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By Adjuster:
If you have your certs and are going to a larger dept that will train you, don't expect to skip ahead of everyone because you already have your certs. Good points. And remember, bigger cities (like NY or CHI) will look at your FireFighter 69.5, all your class certificates and commendations and you'll still have to go through their basic fire academy, simply so they can say you were trained in the way that they do it. Patience is a virtue, and a necessity. Also Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio. If you are LUCKY, the bigger dept's may have a "fast track" where they speed you through training you on how to do things their way. SA currently does not do that, but Houston does. |
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Posted: 11/24/2008 2:33:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Your past history. This WILL come up.
For those of you who are still young. 17,18, 19 young, START KEEPING TRACK OF YOUR RESIDENCES AND ROOM MATES!!! Possibly even your neighbors. Not only will this possibly help in an FD or PD app, it will help with other apartment apps, and reg job apps. Keep track of Addresses and the dates that you lived there. If its an apartment, keep track of your, Apartment name, number roommate, apartment manager, rent amount, amount of utilities, and dates lived there. Same for every apartment, even if its just a different apt in the same complex. I wish I had known this years ago. |
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Posted: 11/30/2008 12:25:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Good point Adjuster.
I didn't even think about it, but especially for .MIL brats that could be a real issue. |
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Posted: 5/21/2009 12:28:31 PM EDT
[#27]
bump
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Posted: 4/26/2010 8:07:24 AM EDT
[#28]
I've started the journey to join your ranks.
A fellow Arfcomer sent me the EMT-Basic study book, and I've started my physical training. I have a little over a year before I will be in a position to actually enter EMT or Firefighting training. My main goal for the next year is to keep bringing in cash while my wife completes her BSN, while studying, researching, networking, and training. I'll be reinstated to the Volunteer department when I get back home. Thanks for the great guide. Polygraphs scare me, even though I've had a mostly tame life
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Posted: 4/26/2010 11:28:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By TexasDoubleTap:
I've started the journey to join your ranks.
Just stay with it... and don't worry about "the box". It's far from a universal thing. |
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Posted: 6/20/2010 1:40:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Banjaxed]
[#30]
........
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Posted: 6/20/2010 2:48:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Banjaxed: I have wanted to pursue this path for some time but just recently decided to get serious about it (near 30 pre mid life crisis). I have a good job now but it is boring and leaves me unfulfilled to say the least and not something I care to do for the next 20 years. A buddy of mine is an instructor for both para and fire. Ran into him last night at a party and he invited me down to the station on Wednesday to hang out and maybe go along on a call or two. His next training classes start this fall and he can get me in for just the cost of books so it looks like I'll take the plunge. Thanks for the informative write up. According to him the only way to make FT around here is to start volunteer so it looks like I'll be going that route first. Working FT it wont be easy but I think it will be worth it in the end. I've worked with guys who had 0 experience as well as guys with VFD experience. Not too many from other F/T FD's - we seem to lose folks to them instead of stealing them away. I've also worked with guys who started at 21 and guys who started at 35... some wanted to be FF's from when they were little, others had "nothing better to do the day of the test". Lots of the "wanna grow ups" go to the CommColl and get AS's in Fire Science and can tell you the NFPA standard for shoelaces but can't tell you how to take a window frame out during overhaul. And the "it's a job" guys could just as easily flip burgers or mow lawns for a living. While they give a litle more restrained demeanor to the usual "let's rush in" - their heart isn't in it.The best ones are the guys with some degree of outside work and life experience. They tend to bring more to the job in both skills and attitude. Good luck! |
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Posted: 6/30/2010 12:05:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Banjaxed]
[#32]
........
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Posted: 7/1/2010 10:17:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PreemptiveStrike]
[#33]
Originally Posted By Tango7:
"it's a job" guys could just as easily flip burgers or mow lawns for a living. While they give a litle more restrained demeanor to the usual "let's rush in" - their heart isn't in it. The best ones are the guys with some degree of outside work and life experience. They tend to bring more to the job in both skills and attitude. I would consider myself to be an "it's a job" guy but my heart is in it when it matters, unfortunately the job has turned into a lot of dub calls where people couldn't be bothered to take care of their own messes that they caused, and politics(which I couldn't care less about). There are many more important factors in my life that come before my "job". Don't get me wrong, I like the job, but it is a job. I think if you're lucky enough to work this job on a full time basis everybody gets that "it's a job" mentality to a certain extent. I totally agree. I'd rather have some guy who has worked for a living (preferrably with mechanical skills and knowledge)working next to me than some idiot (who's never worked an honest day in his life but has a bunch of degrees and can pass a polygraph) who just sits there with his head up his ass on the "Oh shit" calls. There are those who were given the job and there are those who earned the job. I'd much rather work with those that earned the job!! Stay safe... |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 9:05:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#34]
This is a work in progress - thanks.
-T7 So here it is, 6 years after my first "how to" post. A lot of water under the bridge, and a few things I figured I'd add, although this advice is more things to do once you get on the job, be it paid or not. Since it's geared for someone who is on the job, it's has a slightly different tone. Item #1 - Save your own records. Just like the folks who have worked for .Mil/,Gov will tell you, it pays to keep a set of your own records available to you, be it records of in-house training, certifications, medical or whatever. Stuff gets lost / misfiled / thrown out. I got turned on to using a flash drive to Another thing I started doing was scanning all of my certificates... from FFII all the way to FO II and Arson. That way if cert is asked for, and the TO is out of town, you always have a copy on hand that isn't crumpled, a ratty copy of a copy of a copy or one that has a coffee cup ring on it. I just tried using Google Docs to the same end... we'll see how that works. ETA - so far so good. I've been able to download PDF's of my certs wherever I am. Item #2 - train early, train often. While you're first learning the job and/or your department this concerns the basics. Know where the equipment is kept on each rig you're assigned to. Know the addresses and buildings in your district. Know how to don/doff until you can do it half asleep and blindfolded. Know who does what on what types of calls and what tools they need to bring with them to do it. There's no use in your being a Fire Officer 87 and not knowing that a set of irons is a Halligan and a flat headed axe, not a pick headed one, or that you were supposed to bring the truck instead of the engine to the hotel. 
Once you're off probation long enough to not be called "boot" - or at least While the course names and bundles vary from state to state, In Illinois, the Fire Officer I (FO I) series includes the following 40 hour classes:
While the latter 3 are more geared toward real officer type stuff (conflict resolution, discipline, understanding inspections and protection systems) the first two can help you be useful as a senior guy in training. Tac/Strat I is basic company officer "watch for this, watch for that" fire behavior and building construction type stuff that you really need to know, as an officer, a senior man with guys working under you or just to keep your own *ss alive. Instructor I will let you be the  " that's commonplace in the firehouse.
Leadership I is a basic "how to deal with people" class. As you work at a department you develop relationships... mostly (hopefully) good, some less so. This course will help you learn the finer points of having to deal with citizen complaints, problems between two guys on your shift, or other things that constitute the "dys" in the largest dysfunctional family to exist outside the military.
Leadership II is more of the same, geared slightly towards more administrative functions. FPP is a mini-inspectors class; you'll learn the basics about conducting inspections, fire drills, reviewing plans and the various systems that you might find in a building. It's not going to certify you as an inspector, but you'll know the difference in alarms and sprinkler systems when you're done. It's a lot of BTDT review for someone with as much time in as I have, but for someone who hasn't inspected as many places, reset as many alarms or shut down as many systems as us old timers have it's a good introduction. FO I is geared for the basic company officer. In order to be certified as an FOI you'll need FFIII* , 4 years OTJ in suppression and a year acting as an officer or crew (company) boss. In Illinois, the next step is FO II, which is geared towards supervisory personnel (Captains, Batt Chiefs), and includes:
TS2 is like TS1, but where 1 was geared towards you being the interior officer 2 is you as the BC with multiple companies, watching the outside and listening to your interior crews for indicators. Instructor II is where you actually create the lesson plans that the Instructor I's will be using. Leadership III and IV deal with items from department budgets to labor/management issues, employee discipline (time off/firing) and all sorts of things you'll be glad are above your pay grade when the class is over.
There used to be an FPP II that was required. They thankfully condensed FPP I and II into a single class. It's a fair amount of info, but overkill (timewise) for officers performing basic company orientations of occupancies, and after hour 24 it's OMG pull my teeth dull. There's been discussion about making Fire Incident Safety Officer the 5th 40 hour class, but it hasn't come down the pipe from OSFM yet. It seems the traditionalists (the guys who sat and suffered through FPP I and II) feel that
2018 update - Illinois is transitioning their officer training to Company Fire Officer (CoFO) and Advanced Fire Officer (AdFO), which, in addition to the above classes, will require Job Performance Requirements (JPR's) be attested to for several dozen skills and activities. Ill-annoys isn't the lead in this, it started elsewhere, and I'm surprised they're actually following it. The reasoning is to prevent someone getting FO I fresh off probation and sitting on it for 20 years before testing for officer, then having a paper cert with no real world experience to back it up. Nice thought, but the JPR's allow for lots of "simulated" activities. Oh, and you have to recertify every 4 years by providing 100 points worth of training or actual performance of duties (same for inspectors, rope rescue and pretty much every cert once they're done). And in return we still get no reciprocity or portability with our certs. This in a state where the OSFM is short staffed as it is. Item #3: you're a beautiful, special flower
No, you're another smoke eating idjit who owes me a cup of coffee for putting up with your during your probation.  . What I mean is there are a ton of specialties out there. Once you have a solid grasp on the basics, you can start to explore and see what you might like to geek in.
Just a few of the specialties: Hazardous Materials aka "Methyl-Ethyl-Death" or "the guys in the marshmallow suits". While most of you will be trained to the First Responder - Awareness level due to Federal law, there are more chances for you to sniff and die.
FR-Ops lets you works as a decon person, and Tech A v. Tech B is quantity and techniques. B=bigger. 
Technical rescue. "Dopes on ropes". This includes stuff like:
Rope Rescue. People climb up, but can't climb down. We go get them. Varies based on your locale. In some areas it could mean caving, in some areas 300' faces. Around here it's water towers, amusement parks and cell towers. You'll learn to trust that already tiny rope that seems to get thinner the closer you get to the edge. ConSpace - Just because the industrial space wasn't intended for human occupancy doesn't mean that someone won't have to go in there. We get them out again. 1910.146 CFR is your friend, as is a good hard hat and a bright flashlight. Trench - People dig holes that are longer than they are wide, don't shore them and climb into them. Walls slough (fall down), folks get stuck and we go get them. If you're 20 and still like playing in the dirt, this is your gig. Collapse - Buildings fall over/down with people inside. We go get them, using a variety of tools and techniques. A good place for people with building trades knowledge. Our state - and several others - copied the training levels from Hazardous Materials... that is, you have "Operations", "Technician" and some "Specialist" levels.**** In addition to those, here are some more specialties:
The difference between water (ice) rescue and diver? SCUBA. Many departments will train all of their folks to be able to make surface grabs using ropes and gumby suits, but being a diver requires a lot more time, effort, training and equipment, as well as most teams requiring you to make a certain number of drills and trainings throughout the year. Fire Prevention,Inspection and Investigation While we make fun of the bureau, the prevention of fires is part of the job description folks. I know, we give them grief for not satisfying our inner pyros , but it really is a needed part of the business. As I tell the n00bs when they complain - every building and life safety code is written in blood, dust, or ashes. Kind of lends a little severity to the matter.
Anyway, the general branches within the Prevention and Investigation category include:
FPO. Responsible for fire prevention activities, typically presentations to schools and other target audiences. The job may also include inspection activities - YMMV. Child Firesetter Specialist. The person who tries to explain to Johnny why fire isn't cool. May become involved with Child Protective Services, psych docs and/or the Courts. Fire Inspector. Goes around and enforces the code for the employing agency - the term "Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) will be well known to this person. Inspects businesses as a part of the initial permit process and at regular intervals thereafter (annually or bi-annually). May be involved in reviewing building/site plans and blueprints to ensure compliance with local, state and national building and fire Codes, and will likely interact with other agencies from local/county building departments to the State Fire Marshal. To get papered for this varies from state to state, but typically takes between 40 and 120 hours. Fire Investigator. Pretty self explanatory. Most states hold the local Chief responsible for "investigating and determining the causes of fires", or, in Illinois: investigate the cause, origin and circumstances of every fire occurring in such municipality or fire protection district by which property has been destroyed or damaged, and shall especially make investigation as to whether such fire was the result of carelessness or design. In IL CFI is a 120 hour course broken into (3) 40 hour modules. Everything from building construction and fire behavior to firesetter motivation to evidence photography and collection. NFPA 921 is your friend. While you can determine that a certain person started a fire for unlawful purposes using incindiary means, you collect your info and give it to the cops, who arrest the bad guy. You show up in court and provide your testimony and explanation. Unless you go to more schools and become.... Arson Investigator. Fire is an occurrence, arson is a crime. In order to arrest someone for arson you have to be a LEO. In Illinois you can become an CAI two ways. 1st, be a cop who goes through the CFI modules and passes a firefighter knowledge challenge or be a FF who goes through the CFI modules and takes a specialized version of the basic LE academy that's 200 hours in length and only offered at one facility in the whole state. 2 weeks, a break, 2 weeks, another break and then the last week. Not an easy process, nor a cheap one. The Arson Investigator program costs over two times what many of the part time LEO academies cost. A new(ish) change in the Fire Marshal's Administrative Rules now requires FI's and AI's to obtain 100 points every 4 years to keep their certification. Seems there have been significant changes in forensics and fire modeling since the program started, and there were 20 year old cases reopened and sometimes overturned due to convictions based on what was considered gospel then, but is now know to be false.  [war story] I had held off getting additional certs until fairly recently - then two things happened. First, I was bumped up to regular Acting Jack (Acting Shift Commander) when the Shift Commander was off. Lemme tell ya boys and girls you think it's interesting being a senior man? Put the whole damn Department (for that matter City) in your hands for a 24 and see how much sweat (or un-clenched seat cushion) you have left after your first shift.
Our Department - like many others - has no mentoring program to speak of. For years it was simply seniority and OTJ. Organized training? Please. Many of the older officers were against any kind of training requirements at all. I would not contradict the suspicion that it was a combination of them not having them, and not being able to pass the classes or tests if they were offered.
But while they were able to compensate for their lack of "book learnin" with experience, as we all know the number of fires has been steadlily decreasing over the past 20 years. I know several officers on other departments who were considered "salty" for having actually caught a garage fire. That's "a" "fire", singular. This lack of frequency not only makes it more difficult to get the OTJ training our older officers had, but makes it more likely that the situations we encounter will be unknown to us, and thus having no reference more dangerous. The only option left is schooling. While not as effective or accurate as working jobs, it doesn't require beginning a side career as an arsonist.
The last thing I ever wanted to do is to have to drive the buggy to the house of one of my guys and bring his wife to the hospital so she can find out she's now a widow, especially if there was a chance I could have prevented it. So I took the initiative and went to class. I was one of the older guys in the basic officer classes, and about midrange for the FO II stuff, which brings us to the second reason to start your classes earlier in your career than I did. Why all the young guys in FO I? Many departments establish conditions for their promotional exams for Lieutenant to included a section for "ascertained merit" - ie outside agency certificates, so there were a lot of young guys bucking for bugles who were surprised I didn't have any at all being 10-15 years older than them. Our City only recently adopted a similar policy (2010), after a contentious negotiation between the Chief and the Union, both of whom wanted different criteria for the officer candidates. Luckily, the Legislature had passed the Fire Department Promotion Act which made the criteria a mandatory subject of bargaining, and removed things like the "best of 3" policy, which allowed the City to promote any of the top 3 on a list in any order and without explanation** With my experience and the few classes I managed to take I did okay in that area, but I realized I could do better if needed with more paper. ETA 11/12 - Our new Chief has announced that the Acting SC's and SC's will be required to have FOI by the end of 2013 and FOII by the end of 2014. While we're in the midst of a promotion process right now, I'll bet that it will become a requirement to take the Lt. test next time (3 years). CAUTION - EDITORIAL CONTENT: * or the new "Advanced Technician Firefighter" that includes: Firefighter II or Basic Operations Firefighter Certification Course Completion: Written Exam Practical Exam Fire Service Vehicle Operator Certification Vehicle and Machinery Operations Certification (see the above comment about the folks who need the $$$ desiging the courses )
NIMS 200 3 Years Fire Service Experience from Firefighter II/Basic Operations Firefighter Certification Date ** A factor that may have resulted in a promotion to Lieutenant for a politically attached individual over two guys with more training, seniority and experience on the afternoon of the last day of an outgoing mayor's term.
**** IMO some of this was a funding grab by the state schools. After all, if you remove some of the advanced stuff and have a few more practical stations in the 1st class, then lobby the certifying agencies and the Admin Rules folks in the Legislature that means that you can make the same folks attend a 2nd class for more money, thus garnering ducats and justifying your staff and their salaries. Another lesson for the probies: politics are everywhere. [/Editorial]
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Posted: 11/1/2012 7:10:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tango7]
[#35]
Latest update (and some long-needed additions to the above post). Also still a work in progress.
Warning - editorial content inside.
Our previous department head retired in June. In the opinions of most inside and many outside our Deaprtment, this was a good thing. In leaving, he created a vacancy in the Lieutenant ranks, but in keeping with his career long mindset of "if it doesn't make me look good it's not worth pursuing" he never informed the Board that his departure would create said vacancy. Anyway, after several e-mails and a strongly worded letter, our (then interim) Chief finally was able to hand me my collar pins and new shiny badge the last week of August. After 5 years of lies, subterfuge and (mis)conduct unbecoming, I finally got my promotion letter. My ceremony in front of the Council made me almost as proud as when I raised my hand nearly 18 years ago in the same room. I just wish my folks had been there to see it, but I know they are proud of me wherever they are. Anyway, I figured I'd run this page for the person, promoted or not, who is in charge of other firefighters. This is a post for the senior/supervisory guys. As I mentioned in the previous post, my first exposure to how different it is between "just" leading a crew and running the whole shift was pretty significant. While the lives of your co-workers are priceless, when there's an actual pricetag on the equipment you have under your care it's suddenly of more importance to folks outside your Department. When I first started pursuing a promotion path, I made some small modifications of my behavior. Nothing so drastic as becoming a rule geek, but just little things that helped for a smoother transition later. 1) Do as I say, because I did it myself I originally titled this paragraph I tried to follow the rules - within reason, but I realized it's more than that. While we all follow the rules that we know will land us in front of The Man, we tend to ignore the smaller stuff, just as many folks speed without thinking about it, but wouldn't try to rob a bank. Even though I had been trained in the old days of even shorter staffed shifts to spot and back my own vehicle, I started actually getting out and backing up the rigs as per the SOP's. When one of the other older guys gave me some good natured grief, I told him that I couldn't write someone for violating a rule that I used to violate all the time myself. As far as examples, let me provide the following. I caught myself grumbling about being on the box (ambulance) again. I had (then) 16 years on... a junior guy should be on today... grumble grumble... And then I realized. I was signed up to take the Tactical EMS course, and here I was bitching about being in a fully stocked ambulance with a competent partner and a Level II ER less than 8 minutes away? Tango... S the F Up! 
After that I never complained - about being on the box - at least not until after the shift was over .
The same goes for any of the jobs you will expect your crews to perform. You may not be up with the latest technique from XYZ big city, and it may have been several months since you started an IV, but you better remember that the guys on the street doing the job in the street are why you're watching over them. Likewise - don't call in sick to go to a baseball game - then brag about it - and turn around and become the sick note king. 2) I started getting to work early. While many of the guys would roll in the door with three minutes to spare, our old SC would typically arrive an hour ahead of shift. While I figured it was a byproduct of his being in the trades for longer than he'd been on hte FD, I finally asked him about it. He replied "It's just as easy to get up at 5 as it is at 6, and that way if your truck has a flat or there's an accident blocking your way you don't wind up being late." An additional benefit is that if any of your crew calls in sick (our cut-off is an hour before start of shift) and you need to make last-minute station re-assignments it's a lot less stressful with 50 minutes before start time than 5, especially when the other station is 10 minutes away. Years later as an acting I actually had one of my guys comment about our SC (who typically arrives at 20 til), saying that they felt they weren't as ready to deal with things like that. 3) I started really watching my examples. When you think of a role model, everybody pictures the positive exemplar. Athletes imagine the MVP, Cops think of the trustworthy senior guy, we tend to think of the calm but concerned knowledgeable guy with the radio in his hand directing his crews calmly. <Insert Steve McQueen in Towering Inferno here> However, consider this - for every positive role model we know how many negative role models are there? The athlete who gets busted for DUI or drugs... the cop who gets caught taking bribes or who is "R.O.A.D." (Retired On Active Duty)... the firefighter who "took the test because he had nothing better to do that day", who nobody likes to work with and who admits he could just as easily be sweeping streets as saving lives and care just as much (or little). There are a lot, and sadly many of them manage through whatever means to rise through the ranks. Through my observation and experience I learned that there are two role models - the ones you want to emulate and the ones you don't. It's important to recognize the difference and keep it in mind. Now some folks can be opinionated *ssholes but still have good aspects. The early rising SC I mentioned above could be a racist, sexist d*ck who could piss off the Pope. That said, growing up here he'd been in nearly every building in town, and had seen enough fire to be a great resource... if you could pick the pearls from the poop (as it were). And much of his demeanor was based (IMO) on insecurity. He knew there were younger guys with more education and intelligence... he also had seen where political favoritism had put unqualified people in positions they had no business being in. When he finally would relax and open up he wasn't a bad guy, but you had to make it past the bluster and BS. 4) You're not "one of the guys" anymore. The first time I acted up for my current crew I spoke with the guys and told them that I wasn't looking to make any drastic changes, we all knew how things worked and who did what so let's do our job and all go home in the morning. A guy with 10 years more than me (who never expressed an interest in moving up) laughingly made the comment "Well, at least we don't have to worry about getting written up". While most of the crew gave him the WTF? face  I asked him "what do you mean?"
"Well, a union brother can't write up another union brother..." <facepalm> "Well Frank" I replied "I am a union member... but the position of Shift Commander is a management position, isn't it?" "Well, yeah" "I'll tell you what, Frank... you know the rules, you know what you're expected to do. Let's not put me in the position of having to issue a write up in the first place and I guess we'll never know if I will or won't". That kind of solved the issue. 5) Learn Up, teach down. Okay, officially it's "learn the job of the person in the rank or position above you, teach your job to the guys below you". While I'm not discussing "teh militarzation of teh fire departmentS!!111!OMGBBQ!!!!" we do borrow a lot from the military, and in some ways the fire service shares a lot with the various smaller special warfare units. Just as the teams will have a guy whose primary job is X and a secondary job of Y so they don't lose operational capability in the event of a casualty, the fire service needs to develop a multi-layered approach to the various skill sets as well. I started teaching the guys on my shift little bits and pieces of techincal rescue. Not so they could play hole mole and grab someone, but so if we had an incident they would understand what was going on and why, and be able to act as a line handler or secure equipment. While we (hopefully) aren't training for casualties mid-mission, we do have personnel absent for vacations, SL, holidays, Kellys and classes. We can't all be at all the incidents, so all we can do is teach each other enough of our knowledge to not get hurt or make the problem worse. As you're entrusted with more responsibility your relationship will start to change, from "buddy" to mentor to leader or boss. There is a difference, a big one, between the two, as anyone who has served under both can attest to. Pretty much anybody can be a boss. Yell, blame, expect as little as possible and your crew will be happy to comply and give you plenty of opportunity to exercise your authoritah while you micromanage. But it's harder to be a leader. |
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Posted: 7/15/2013 8:02:45 PM EDT
[#36]
On the advice from another thread, here's a version of the job description that got me (and my buddy) thi highest rating that Civilian Personnel had ever seen by non-veterans, proving that sometimes it's nto what you say, but how you say it.
This is taken (more or less directly) from the IFSTA "Essentials of Firefighting" table of contents, which is where many agencies would go to look to compare qualifications. The exact book may have changed, so this content may be somewhat outdated, but feel free to use it as a template. Applicant has knowledge of fire behavior, the sources of heat energy (including chemical, electrical, mechanical, nuclear and solar); the principles of heat transfer (including conduction, convection, radiation and direct flame contact); the principles of fire behavior, fuel characteristics, fuel-to-air mixture , the burning process, phases of fire, thermal layering of gases, products of combustion.
Applicant has knowledge of fire extinguishment theory, including extinguishment by temperature reduction, fuel removal, oxygen dilution and chemical flame inhibition. Applicant has knowledge of the classification of fires and extinguishment methods (A, B, C, and D). Applicant has knowledge of portable fire extinguishers, and the extinguisher rating system, as well as selecting and using portable fire extinguishers. Applicant has knowledge of the types of portable fire extinguishers, including pump tank, stored-pressure and aqueous film forming foam (AFFF) extinguishers; Halon 1211 and 1301 extinguishers, carbon dioxide extinguishers (hand carried and wheeled); dry chemical extinguishers (hand carried and wheeled); extinguishers and powder extinguishing agents for metal fires, as well as extinguisher inspection, maintenance requirements and procedures. Applicant has knowledge of firefighter personal protective equipment (PPE), including personal protective clothing, helmets, eye and hearing protection, protective hoods, protective (turnout) coats, protective trousers, hand and foot protection, as well as the proper care of personal protective clothing. Applicant has knowledge of Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA), including respiratory hazards, the limitations of protective breathing apparatus and the wearer; applicant has knowledge of the types of breathing apparatus, the mounting, donning and doffing of protective breathing apparatus. Applicant has knowledge of how to change cylinders, inspect and care for protective breathing apparatus, recharge self-contained breathing apparatus cylinders, as well as the safety precautions for SCBA use, emergency procedures and the function and operation of Personal Alert Safety System (PASS) Devices. Applicant has knowledge of ropes and knots, including rope materials (natural and synthetic), rope construction (including laid (twisted) natural or synthetic rope, braided, braid-on-braid and kernmantle rope) and the difference between life safety and utility rope. Applicant has knowledge of knots, including the elements of a knot, the bowline knot, the clove hitch, the half hitch, the figure-of-eight family of knots, the Becket or sheet bend and the overhand safety knot. Applicant is familiar with rope care and maintenance, including the inspection, cleaning and storage of rope, including coiling and bagging. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of using rope for the hoisting tools and equipment. Applicant has knowledge of extrication tools and equipment, including hand, hydraulic and pneumatic tools. Applicant is familiar with the use of cribbing for vehicle stabilization. Applicant is familiar with assessing the need for extrication activities, stabilizing the vehicle, disentanglement and victim removal procedures. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of rescue, including carries and drags (lone rescuer lift and carry, extremity (sit-pick) carry, and blanket drag). Applicant had knowledge of moving a victim on a long backboard or litter; performing rope rescue, fashioning or utilizing a harness, lowering a victim from a window and rescue from burning buildings. Applicant has knowledge of special rescue situations, including rescue from collapsed buildings, trench cave-ins, caves and tunnels, electrical contact, water and ice, industrial, elevator and escalator rescue. Applicant has knowledge of forcible entry tools, including cutting, prying, pushing, pulling and striking tools. Applicant has knowledge of the proper care and maintenance of forcible entry tools and axes. Applicant has knowledge of nondestructive and destructive opening and forcing techniques for swinging, revolving, sliding and overhead doors, fire doors, fences, gates and windows, including checkrail, casement, projected, awning and jalousie windows. Applicant is familiar with the methods used to overcome plastic, screened or barred windows and other openings. Applicant has knowledge of opening concrete and wood floors; breaching masonry and veneered walls, metal, wood frame and partition walls. Applicant is familiar with the principles of ventilation, including the advantages of ventilation during rescue, fire attack and extinguishment operations, as well as the effects ventilation has on property conservation, fire spread control, the reduction of flashover and backdraft. Applicant has knowledge of selecting the proper ventilation location. Applicant has knowledge of the various types of roofs, including flat, pitched, arched, concrete and metal roofs, as well as the methods of trench or strip ventilation. Applicant has knowledge of the advantages and disadvantages of forced ventilation, as well as the differences between negative-pressure, positive-pressure and hydraulic ventilation. Applicant has knowledge of ladders, including the parts and types of single, roof, folding, extension, combination, pole and pompier ladders. Applicant has knowledge in Aerial Apparatus, including aerial ladders, aerial ladder platforms, telescoping aerial platforms and articulating aerial platform apparatus. Applicant is familiar with ladder construction, maintenance and service testing of ground ladders, as well as handling, selecting, mounting and removing of ladders from apparatus. Applicant is familiar with proper lifting and lowering methods, as well as proper carries and placement of ladders. Applicant is familiar with pivoting and rolling of ladders, one, two, three and four firefighter raises, securing, climbing and working on ladders, as well as the placement of roof ladders, assisting of victims down a ladder and general ladder safety, including electrical hazards. Applicant is familiar with Water Supply systems, including the sources of supply and means of movement, processing or treatment facilities and the distribution system. Applicant knows the difference between static, normal operating, residual and flow pressures. Applicant is familiar with the different types of fire hydrants, as well as color coding and maintenance. Applicant is familiar rural water supply operations, including portable tanks, water shuttles and relay pumping. Applicant is familiar with the extinguishing properties of water, friction loss and water hammer. Applicant has knowledge of solid, fog and broken fire streams and nozzles and nozzle maintenance. Applicant has knowledge of the types of foams (AFFF, FFFP), including how foam is generated, application rates, specific foam concentrates, proportioners, and makers. Applicant has knowledge of assembling a foam fire stream system and troubleshooting foam operations. Applicant has knowledge of fire hose, including the construction of hose, the various hose sizes and uses, the causes and prevention of mechanical, thermal mildew, mold and chemical hose damage. Applicant has knowledge in general care and maintenance of hose, including washing, drying and storing hose. Applicant has knowledge of the different types of couplings, including threaded and Storz types and their care. Applicant has knowledge hose appliances and tools, including valves, valve devices and fittings. Applicant has knowledge of hose rolls, including straight, donut, twin donut and self-locking twin donut rolls. Applicant has knowledge of the various types of hose lays, including forward, reverse, and split lays. Applicant has knowledge of the various types of supply hose loads, including the accordion, horseshoe, and flat load, as well as coupling and uncoupling hose. Applicant has knowledge of preconnected hose loads, including flat, triple layer and minuteman loads as well as booster lines; applicant has knowledge of the methods of advancing hoselines into a structure, up a stairway, down inside and outside stairways from a standpipe and up a ladder. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of hoisting hose, as well as extending a section of hose, retrieving a loose hoseline and replacing burst section(s). Applicant has knowledge of operating medium and large-size attack lines, as well as supplying and deploying master stream devices. Applicant has knowledge of the methods for service testing fire hose. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of fire suppression, including direct, indirect and combination attacks, stream selection, suppressing class C fires, the use of water as a cooling agent, a mechanical tool, a substitute medium and a protective cover. Applicant has knowledge of the control and extinguishment of fires involving bulk transport and passenger vehicles and the control of gas utilities. Applicant has knowledge of the suppression of class C fires, including those involving underground lines and commercial high-voltage installation. Applicant also has knowledge of the methods of suppressing class D fires. Applicant has knowledge of Fire Company tactics, including those used for single-family dwellings, fires in upper levels and below grade in structures, at properties protected by fixed fire extinguishing systems. Applicant also has knowledge of the tactics uses for vehicle fires, trash and dumpster fires, fires and emergencies in confined enclosures and wildland fire techniques. Applicant has knowledge of the design and operation of automatic sprinkler systems, including wet-pipe, dry-pipe, pre-action, deluge and residential types; applicant has knowledge of the means of fire department connection, water supplies and various operating valves, drains and alarms typical to sprinkler systems. Applicant has knowledge of the method and principles of salvage and overhaul, including the selection, use and storage of salvage covers, carryalls, floor runners, portable pumps and water vacuums. Applicant has knowledge of the care and maintenance of salvage equipment, including the methods of folding, rolling and spreading salvage covers by one or two firefighters. Applicant has knowledge of constructing water chutes and catchalls. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of searching for and extinguishing hidden fires, as well as preserving evidence. Applicant is familiar with the various types and methods of building construction, including types I, II, II, IV and V. Applicant is familiar with the effects of fire on common building materials, such as wood, masonry, cast iron, steel, reinforced concrete, gypsum and glass. Applicant is also aware of the hazards related to building construction, including dangerous building conditions, and the hazards posed by lightweight and truss construction methods. Applicant has knowledge of fire alarms and communications, the methods of receiving alarms from the public, public alerting systems, central station, municipal monitoring and private fire alarm signaling systems. Applicant is familiar with the methods of alerting fire department personnel and proper radio procedures (including arrival and progress reports and calls for additional response if needed). Applicant is familiar with fire prevention and public fire education methods, including building inspections as a tool of pre-incident planning, proper conduct during inspections and fire company inspection procedures. Applicant is familiar with map and sketch making, taking photographs and constructing written reports. Applicant is familiar with common, special and target hazards. Applicant is also familiar with the principles of dwelling inspections and the promotion of home fire safety, including stop, drop, and roll, the different types, proper selection and installation of smoke detectors, as well as conducting fires station tours. |
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Posted: 9/1/2018 4:57:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Okay, after reviewing this for an applicant at my p/t FD, I realized that using the headers from the 2nd Edition of Essentials of Firefighting may seem a little dated - like mentioning Halon and pompier ladders. Hey, in 1991, the 1983 version was the latest we had, as they didn't print the 3rd until 1992.
What, you weren't even alive in 1983? I know, I know. Shaddup and get the coffee going youngster. 
Here it is updated to reflect the 6th Edition. Applicant has knowledge of fire service history, culture, tradition and mission. Applicant has knowledge of fire service organization and structure, including the types of fire departments, staffing models, line and staff functions and principles such as chain of command, unity of command, span of control division of labor and discipline.
Applicant has knowledge of fire service regulations, policies and procedures. Applicant has knowledge of laws statutes, ordinances, codes, standards, orders and directives, as well as SOP’s and SOG’s. Applicant is familiar with interacting with other organizations, including but not limited to Emergency Medical Services, hospitals, emergency and disaster management organizations, local, county, state and federal law enforcement agencies, utility companies, municipal and county public works agencies and media outlets. Applicant has knowledge of the leading causes of firefighter fatalities, injuries and illnesses, fire service safety standards, regulations and initiatives produced by multiple organizations, including the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and the International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC). Applicant has knowledge of risk management, fire department health and safety programs, apparatus and vehicle safety, fires station and facility safety, tool, equipment and training safety, as well as safety during emergency operations. Applicant has knowledge of internal and external communication methods, including radio systems, fire alarm and signals, the methods of receiving alarms from the public, public alerting systems, central station, municipal monitoring and private fire alarm signaling systems. Applicant is familiar with the methods of alerting fire department personnel and proper radio procedures (including arrival and progress reports and calls for additional response if needed). Applicant is familiar with the use of e-mail and text messaging. Applicant is familiar with the various types and methods of building construction, including types I, II, II, IV and V. Applicant is familiar with the use of common building materials, such as wood, masonry, cast iron, steel, reinforced concrete, gypsum, plaster, plastic, fiberglass and glass. Applicant is familiar with occupancy classifications, the components of buildings, including foundations and basements, floors and ceilings, walls, roofs, protected, exterior and unprotected stairs, swinging, sliding, folding and revolving wood, glass and metal doors, both standards and fire rated, and fixed, movable and security windows. Applicant is familiar with the effects of fire on common building materials, such as wood, masonry, cast iron, steel, reinforced concrete, gypsum, plaster, plastic, fiberglass and glass, and applicant is also aware of the hazards related to building construction, including dangerous building conditions, and the hazards posed by lightweight and truss construction methods, and the risks of structural collapse posed by exposure to fire. Applicant has knowledge of fire behavior, the forms of ignition, the types of combustion, the sources of heat energy (including chemical, electrical, mechanical, nuclear and solar); the principles of heat transfer (including conduction, convection, radiation and direct flame contact); the principles of fire behavior, gaseous, liquid and solid fuel characteristics, fuel-to-air mixture, the stages of fire development, the phases of fire, thermal layering of gases, the products of combustion and how fire behavior impacts firefighting operations. Applicant has knowledge of firefighter personal protective equipment (PPE), including personal protective clothing, helmets, eye and hearing protection, protective hoods, protective (turnout) coats, protective trousers, hand and foot protection, as well as the proper care of personal protective clothing and station attire, including inspection, cleaning and repair. Applicant has knowledge of open and closed circuit Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA), including respiratory hazards, the limitations of protective breathing apparatus and the wearer; applicant has knowledge of the types of breathing apparatus, the mounting, donning and doffing of protective breathing apparatus. Applicant has knowledge of how to change cylinders, inspect and care for protective breathing apparatus, inspect, clean, maintain and recharge self-contained breathing apparatus cylinders, as well as the safety precautions for SCBA use, emergency procedures and the function and operation of Personal Alert Safety System (PASS) Devices. Applicant has knowledge of fire extinguishment theory, including extinguishment by temperature reduction, fuel removal, oxygen dilution and chemical flame inhibition. Applicant has knowledge of the classification of fires and extinguishment methods (A, B, C, D and K). Applicant has knowledge of portable fire extinguishers, and the extinguisher rating system, as well as selecting and using portable fire extinguishers. Applicant has knowledge of the types of portable fire extinguishers, including pump tank, stored-pressure and aqueous film forming foam (AFFF) extinguishers, clean agent, carbon dioxide extinguishers (hand carried and wheeled); dry chemical and dry agent extinguishers (hand carried and wheeled); extinguishers and powder extinguishing agents for metal fires, as well as extinguisher inspection, maintenance requirements and procedures. Applicant has knowledge of ropes, webbing and knots, including rope materials (natural and synthetic), rope construction (including laid (twisted) natural or synthetic rope, braided, braid-on-braid and kernmantle rope) and the difference between life safety and utility rope. Applicant has knowledge of flat and tubular webbing materials, construction, uses, care and maintenance. Applicant has knowledge of knots, including the elements of a knot, the overhand (safety) knot, bowline knot, half hitch, clove hitch, figure-of-eight family of knots (including bend, bight and follow-through), the Becket or sheet bend and the water knot. Applicant is familiar with rope care and maintenance, including the inspection, cleaning and storage of rope, including coiling and bagging. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of using rope for the hoisting tools and equipment, as well as use in searching and stabilization. Applicant has knowledge of structural search, victim removal and firefighter survival, including building size-up and floor plans, situational awareness, search preparation and procedures. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of rescue, including carries and drags (incline drag, webbing drag, one rescuer lift and carry, extremity (sit-pick) carry and blanket drag). Applicant had knowledge of moving a victim on a long backboard or litter; performing rope rescue, fashioning or utilizing a harness, lowering a victim from a window and rescue from burning buildings. Applicant has knowledge of special rescue situations, including rescue from collapsed buildings, trench cave-ins, caves and tunnels, electrical contact, water and ice, industrial, elevator and escalator rescue. Applicant has knowledge of recognition of mayday situations, the importance of air management and communications, survival actions and rapid intervention crews. Applicant has knowledge of scene lighting tools, rescue tools, vehicle extrication tools and technical rescue equipment, including hand and powered (electric, hydraulic and pneumatic) tools, including cutting, stabilizing, lifting and pulling tools. Applicant is familiar with the use of cribbing for vehicle stabilization. Applicant is familiar with assessing the need for extrication activities, sizing-up and stabilizing the vehicle, securing vehicle electrical system, passenger safety systems, disentanglement and victim removal procedures. Applicant has knowledge of technical rescue incidents, including prioritizing of actions, securing the scene and mobilizing additional resources. Applicant has knowledge of the types of technical rescue incidents, including rope (high angle), structural collapse, confined space, vehicle, water (swift, surface ice, open water dive and ice dive), wilderness, trench, machinery, elevator, cave, mine, tunnel and electrical rescue incidents. Applicant has knowledge of forcible entry tools, including cutting, prying, pushing, pulling and striking tools. Applicant has knowledge of the proper care and maintenance of forcible entry tools and axes. Applicant has knowledge of nondestructive and destructive opening and forcing techniques for swinging, revolving, sliding and overhead doors, fire doors, fences, gates and windows, including checkrail, casement, projected, awning and jalousie windows. Applicant is familiar with the methods used to overcome plastic, screened or barred windows and other openings. Applicant has knowledge of opening concrete and wood floors; breaching masonry and veneered walls, metal, wood frame and partition walls. Applicant has knowledge of ladders, including the parts and types of single, roof, folding, extension, combination and pole ladders, as well as their materials (metal, wood or fiberglass). Applicant has knowledge of Aerial Apparatus, including aerial ladders, aerial ladder platforms, telescoping aerial platforms and articulating aerial platform apparatus. Applicant is familiar with ladder types and construction, maintenance and service testing of ground ladders, as well as handling, selecting, mounting and removing of ladders from apparatus. Applicant is familiar with proper raising, lifting and lowering methods, as well as proper carries and placement of ladders. Applicant is familiar with pivoting and rolling of ladders, one, two, three and four firefighter raises, securing, climbing and working on ladders, as well as the placement of roof ladders, assisting of victims down a ladder and general ladder safety, including electrical hazards. Applicant is familiar with the principles of horizontal and vertical ventilation, including the advantages of ventilation during rescue, fire attack and extinguishment operations, as well as the effects ventilation activities have on property conservation, fire spread control, the reduction of flashover and backdraft. Applicant has knowledge of selecting the proper ventilation location. Applicant has knowledge of the various types of roofs, including flat, pitched, arched, concrete and metal roofs, as well as the methods of trench or strip ventilation. Applicant has knowledge of the advantages and disadvantages of forced ventilation, as well as the differences between negative-pressure, positive-pressure and hydraulic ventilation. Applicant is familiar with Water Supply systems, including the sources of supply and means of movement, processing or treatment facilities and the distribution system. Applicant knows the difference between static, normal operating, residual and flow pressures. Applicant is familiar with the construction and operations of different types of fire hydrants, as well as color coding and maintenance. Applicant is familiar rural water supply operations, including portable tanks, water shuttles and relay pumping. Applicant has knowledge of fire hose, including the construction of hose, the various hose sizes and uses, the causes and prevention of mechanical, thermal mildew, mold and chemical hose damage. Applicant has knowledge in general care and maintenance of hose, including washing, drying and storing hose. Applicant has knowledge of the different types of couplings, including threaded and Storz types and their care. Applicant has knowledge hose appliances and tools, including valves, valve devices and fittings. Applicant has knowledge of hose rolls, including straight, donut, twin donut and self-locking twin donut rolls. Applicant has knowledge of the various types of hose lays, including forward, reverse, and split lays. Applicant has knowledge of the various types of supply hose loads, including the accordion, horseshoe, and flat load, as well as coupling and uncoupling hose. Applicant has knowledge of preconnected hose loads, including flat, triple layer and minuteman loads as well as booster lines; applicant has knowledge of the methods of advancing hoselines into a structure, up a stairway, down inside and outside stairways from a standpipe and up a ladder. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of hoisting hose, as well as extending a section of hose, retrieving a loose hoseline and replacing burst section(s). Applicant has knowledge of operating medium and large-size attack lines, as well as supplying and deploying master stream devices. Applicant has knowledge of the methods for service testing fire hose. Applicant is familiar with the extinguishing properties of water, friction loss and water hammer. Applicant has knowledge of the theory and operation of solid, fog and broken fire streams and nozzles (including cellar and piercing types) and nozzle maintenance. Applicant has knowledge of the types of foams (AFFF, FFFP), including how foam is generated, application rates, specific foam concentrates, eductors, proportioners, and makers (portable, apparatus mounted and compressed air (CAFS)). Applicant has knowledge of assembling a foam fire stream system, applying foam (roll-on, bank-down and rain-down) and troubleshooting foam operations. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of fire suppression, including offensive and defensive tactics, direct, indirect and combination attacks, hoseline and stream selection, the use of water as a cooling agent, a mechanical tool, a substitute medium and a protective cover. Applicant has knowledge of the control and extinguishment of fires involving bulk transport and passenger vehicles and the control of gas utilities. Applicant has knowledge of connections to Fire Department Connections (FDC)’s to supply sprinkler or standpipe systems. Applicant has knowledge of the suppression of class C fires, including those involving underground lines and commercial high-voltage installation. Applicant also has knowledge of the methods of suppressing class D as well as ground cover fires. Applicant has knowledge of Fire Company tactics, including those used for single-family dwellings, fires in upper levels and below grade in structures, at properties protected by fixed fire extinguishing systems. Applicant also has knowledge of the tactics uses for vehicle fires, trash and dumpster fires, fires and emergencies in confined enclosures and wildland fire techniques. Applicant has knowledge of the method and principles of loss control, including salvage and overhaul, the selection, use and storage of salvage covers, carryalls, floor runners, portable pumps and water vacuums. Applicant has knowledge of the care and maintenance of salvage equipment, including the methods of folding, rolling and spreading salvage covers by one or two firefighters. Applicant has knowledge of constructing water chutes and catchalls. Applicant has knowledge of the methods of searching for and extinguishing hidden fires, the use of thermal imaging cameras (TIC’s) as well as preserving evidence. Applicant has knowledge of fire origin and cause determination for accidental, natural, incendiary and undetermined fire types in structural, exterior and vehicle fires, as well as recognizing indicators of possible arson fires and preservation of individual items of evidence and scene integrity. Applicant has knowledge of the types of evidence (direct, circumstantial and physical), the importance of fire cause evidence, the roles and responsibilities of responders and investigators, as well as legal issues related to evidence gathering and preservation. Applicant has knowledge of the design and operation of fire protection systems, including fire alarm control panels, power supplies, initiating (pull stations, heat, ionization and photoelectric smoke detectors, infrared (IR) and ultraviolet (UV) flame detectors and flame sensor wires) and notification (horns, bells, buzzers and strobes) devices. Applicant has knowledge of automatic sprinkler systems, including wet-pipe, dry-pipe, pre-action, deluge and residential types; applicant has knowledge of the means of fire department connection, water supplies and various operating valves, drains and alarms typical to sprinkler systems. Applicant has knowledge of the components and classification of Class I, II and II standpipe systems as well as smoke management systems. Applicant has knowledge of the 16 fire and life safety initiatives, including safety-driven organizations, risk awareness and accountability, operational risk management and preparedness safety empowerment, training and education, physical health, research, technology, documentation, grants, emergency vehicle response safety, violent incidents, mental health, community risk reduction, life safety science and applications and apparatus and equipment design safety. Applicant is familiar with fire prevention and public fire and life safety education methods, including building inspections as a tool of pre-incident planning, proper conduct during inspections and fire company inspection procedures. Applicant is familiar with map and sketch making, taking photographs and constructing written reports. Applicant is familiar with common, special and target hazards. Applicant is also familiar with the principles of dwelling inspections, the promotion of home fire safety, juvenile instruction, including stop, drop, and roll, the different types, proper selection and installation of smoke detectors, as well as conducting fires station tours. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 3:34:10 PM EDT
[#38]
I skimmed through the posts. I apologize if I missed it.
But there is a current trend in bringing on student/intern positions. It is a great opportunity to gain job experience and have school paid for. My department runs 3 students per shift we use them as the emt on the ambulance. (Oregon requires emt-b and a paramedic to make an Als rig) In turn we offer Free fire training Live in the station 100% tuition reimbursement for fire or EMS classes $84 per shift in stipend. Time off shift for school. Most of our students take 2 years to complete the paramedic degree. We are currently trialing a non live in intern position. We are trying to catch the guys who are older and have established lives (married, kids) which do not allow them to live in the station. It is always an option to consider. The only requirements are EMT basic and 2 years driving experience. And ability to pass cpat, oral interviews, background check, and drug screening. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 8:20:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hungrymonkey:
I skimmed through the posts. I apologize if I missed it. But there is a current trend in bringing on student/intern positions.
We've got a local PTFD that has an intern program (non live-in), and my buddy's FD has a live-in one. It's funny - back in the academy we were taught that in the old old days - like horse drawn times - in some cities the firefighters were bachelors and would actually live in the fire house. Room and board would be their pay, and they'd be trained OTJ. Seems to be making a comeback of sorts.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2024 11:05:52 PM EDT
[#40]
About 15 years ago I gave some though to joining a volunteer fire company and looked into it a bit, but I didn't think I really had the time to commit to it. But now I think I got the time.
My county has a combined system. Fire companies it seems generally staff a truck/engine/both from 7pm-7am, while some rescue companies are 100% vol 24/7. There are about six fire companies within 15 minutes drive. Any advice as far as picking the company to join? I'd imagine it would be best to find one that you 'fit in' the best. Some might be cliquey I suppose. I'm well aware of drama existing in firehouses. How do you figure out which would be most in need of you skills? I'd imagine most would be inclined to take on nearly anyone willing to do it and meeting the basic requirements. Some companies have monthly meetings for potential volunteers to get info. What questions should I ask? |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 3:54:11 PM EDT
[#41]
USMC2671,
I work for a municipal dept in Texas, but way back in the day I volunteered for both a FD and a rescue squad in VA. If you have a handful of departments near by, you have some choices and I promise some are better than others. I would suggest going to a meeting / drill night and observing / "check it out." Did they train? Did it seem valuable and productive? Was there clear leadership involved? Was it a waste of time with guys goofing off? Ask how many members they have and how many are active. Look around the station and at the trucks. Are they clean, organized, maintained well? I assume from the user name you are a Marine. Think about it from that angle. Imagine if you were coming off of active duty and joining the reserves and you had a handful of reserve units near by that you could chose from. How do you know which one would be the best place for you? Apply the same logic and you will be fine. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 6:14:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Thursday night I went to an orientation meeting at the Co down the street from where I grew up. The company is actually three companies, though vols are only staffing two stations for now. I'm in the 'wealthiest' county in the country. Our fire rescue system is right there with the best in the country. It's well-funded, lots of new apparatus and stations, no lack of training. EMT training is required for all FFs, so I would be doing a nationally accredited 5-month fire academy and 3 months for EMT to meet the basic requirements to be on a crew. EVOC and other training would happen at some point. There are also regular weekend training events at the main safety center. Upon getting accepted I would be issued a full set of gear. The station I went to highly encourages recruits to come in during the evenings to start meeting the crews and learning to get ahead prior to starting the courses. Lots of white collar occupations at that station it seems, 100 operational members and about that many more in supporting roles. It's also an extremely busy company
I got a neighbor up the street I need to talk to the next I see him. He used to be the chief of the Co in my town. And the brother of my sister's best friend is an career Lt at another station and instructor. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 4:01:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Welcome to the club!
Glad it seems things are working out towards making your decision. There's differences between true volunteer, paid-on-call, paid on premises, part-time and full time.Among the questions I've asked and been asked... Pay Minimum number of hours required (be aware, training/probationary/candidate will often have to work or be present more than senior/non-probationary FF's) Uniforms - issued, or self-bought? Number required? Gear - first set new or used? (Many departments will issue used gear to probies because a)they';; often trash them during academy, and b) not everyone stays through or past probation) Training - how much? How long? Where? Who pays? Is reimbursement required if you leave before a certain period of time? Is documented response to a certain number or percent of incidents required for call positions? |
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