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Posted: 1/1/2021 5:05:49 PM EDT
[#1]
For the first number of months your gains in the gym are mostly due to your central nervous system rewiring and learning to maximally contract your muscles. Your muscle gains are just around the corner. Keep up consistent work and they will come.
The protein requirement of 1 to 1.5g/lb includes all your daily intake. Most people easily meet this and don't require supplementation. Check your daily intake of food against any on-line nutrition calculator. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:18:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Just some suggestions from my experience:
Increase your activity to a 2 day on - 1 day off routine at minimum. 4 on - 1 off maximum. Without knowing the reps, % max, etc, the frequency alone seems light. Also, up the protein shake to 1 more a day and count it as a meal. You need to be pushing 5-6 meals per day to get the metabolic rate and muscle repairs running high. Eventually you will have to make some more changes to keep challenging your muscles. Hope this helps. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:22:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Your not eating enough
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Posted: 1/1/2021 6:37:30 PM EDT
[#4]
You are eating to lose mass, not to gain it.
Recomping is possible, but it's a tightrope to walk. Most people do it in cycles, drop fat until you either stall on strength or like your BF percentage, then increase calories and work on gaining muscle. |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:36:38 PM EDT
[#5]
You only eat 40 grams total? Surely you have more protein than one shake. That's insanely unhealthy. No chicken, eggs, pork, beef? Just a shake?
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:43:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Weight loss is directly opposed to muscle and strength gain.
Eat more protein like tuna fish and cottage cheese and lift heavy. You'll get strong and build muscle. Then cut the cheese while still lifting heavy. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:26:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: From research it appears I need to be around 1g/lb of lean body mass , |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:31:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the first number of months your gains in the gym are mostly due to your central nervous system rewiring and learning to maximally contract your muscles. Your muscle gains are just around the corner. Keep up consistent work and they will come. The protein requirement of 1 to 1.5g/lb includes all your daily intake. Most people easily meet this and don't require supplementation. Check your daily intake of food against any on-line nutrition calculator. This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 4:39:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:02:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Try eating normally but have a protein shake immediately upon waking up, immediately after working out, and casein immediately before bed. That way you’re looking at an extra 75-150g of protein (150 if you’re doubling up scoops)
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Posted: 1/3/2021 1:13:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? Unless you're on heavy anabolics and insulin, you don't ever start slamming anything. You increase calories slowly until you have a surprlus that allows you to build muscle, strength, and slowly gain weight. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 1:34:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you're on heavy anabolics and insulin, you don't ever start slamming anything. You increase calories slowly until you have a surprlus that allows you to build muscle, strength, and slowly gain weight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? Unless you're on heavy anabolics and insulin, you don't ever start slamming anything. You increase calories slowly until you have a surprlus that allows you to build muscle, strength, and slowly gain weight. With one exception. If you are scrawny and it's your first bulk, slam away. It's good for both learning how to eat, and getting some weight up. My first bulk I went from 145-175 and was very happy with it. The next winter I was back down to about 160, wanted to try it again so I ate like a pig up to 180....almost all fat the second time, wasn't worth it, by the time I cut I was right back to where I started. I've decided since to just go slow and steady, and it's not as fun, but I feel a lot better. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 8:53:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With one exception. If you are scrawny and it's your first bulk, slam away. It's good for both learning how to eat, and getting some weight up. My first bulk I went from 145-175 and was very happy with it. The next winter I was back down to about 160, wanted to try it again so I ate like a pig up to 180....almost all fat the second time, wasn't worth it, by the time I cut I was right back to where I started. I've decided since to just go slow and steady, and it's not as fun, but I feel a lot better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? Unless you're on heavy anabolics and insulin, you don't ever start slamming anything. You increase calories slowly until you have a surprlus that allows you to build muscle, strength, and slowly gain weight. With one exception. If you are scrawny and it's your first bulk, slam away. It's good for both learning how to eat, and getting some weight up. My first bulk I went from 145-175 and was very happy with it. The next winter I was back down to about 160, wanted to try it again so I ate like a pig up to 180....almost all fat the second time, wasn't worth it, by the time I cut I was right back to where I started. I've decided since to just go slow and steady, and it's not as fun, but I feel a lot better. Even then, usually "hard gainers" are people that just don't eat. They don't naturally have an appetite. They say it's so hard to gain while they eat 1700 calories a day.  There are a few exceptions though obviously. If you feed a scrawny guy the food that got me fat, he'll be fat too. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 9:01:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even then, usually "hard gainers" are people that just don't eat. They don't naturally have an appetite. They say it's so hard to gain while they eat 1700 calories a day. There are a few exceptions though obviously. If you feed a scrawny guy the food that got me fat, he'll be fat too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? Unless you're on heavy anabolics and insulin, you don't ever start slamming anything. You increase calories slowly until you have a surprlus that allows you to build muscle, strength, and slowly gain weight. With one exception. If you are scrawny and it's your first bulk, slam away. It's good for both learning how to eat, and getting some weight up. My first bulk I went from 145-175 and was very happy with it. The next winter I was back down to about 160, wanted to try it again so I ate like a pig up to 180....almost all fat the second time, wasn't worth it, by the time I cut I was right back to where I started. I've decided since to just go slow and steady, and it's not as fun, but I feel a lot better. Even then, usually "hard gainers" are people that just don't eat. They don't naturally have an appetite. They say it's so hard to gain while they eat 1700 calories a day. There are a few exceptions though obviously. If you feed a scrawny guy the food that got me fat, he'll be fat too. That was me, and still is mostly. As long as I control myself with candy and sweet stuff, I eat pretty much to match my energy expenditure for the day, I always have. Big appetite on big days, almost nothing on lazy days. It was a hard thing to train myself out of, and still do it mostly. I'm just smarter about it now, I go for calorie dense food to pad lazy days. I haven't tracked to do a real bulk in a few years, I really should, but it's a PITA, and I know I'll just overdo it and end up over fat again. I've been gaining about 2 lbs a year, which is miniscule, but I'm fine with it, my BF% has stayed pretty much the same, so it's likely lean mass. All the guys I graduated with are either skinny fat or fat fat, I would rather keep looking good naked and go slower now. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 9:10:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was me, and still is mostly. As long as I control myself with candy and sweet stuff, I eat pretty much to match my energy expenditure for the day, I always have. Big appetite on big days, almost nothing on lazy days. It was a hard thing to train myself out of, and still do it mostly. I'm just smarter about it now, I go for calorie dense food to pad lazy days. I haven't tracked to do a real bulk in a few years, I really should, but it's a PITA, and I know I'll just overdo it and end up over fat again. I've been gaining about 2 lbs a year, which is miniscule, but I'm fine with it, my BF% has stayed pretty much the same, so it's likely lean mass. All the guys I graduated with are either skinny fat or fat fat, I would rather keep looking good naked and go slower now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is accurate. You can gain on your lifts, regardless of caloric level, for months as a beginner. You need not worry about macros, caloric surplus, etc. You won’t look different either, nor should you, since you’re not gaining muscle. Even once you are, it’s so slow you’d need progress pics over months to see any appreciable difference. Once you’d lifts stall (assuming it’s not form related or something else), a small (small) caloric surplus is necessitated. Protein requirements are a diminishing returns thing. More is generally better, but for most I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze past .8g/lb. So from what I'm hearing I'm good to keep working out as is? Maybe what I'm doing is accidently cutting phase and then once I'm at goal weight start slamming calories, which ideally should be muscle mass instead of fat? Unless you're on heavy anabolics and insulin, you don't ever start slamming anything. You increase calories slowly until you have a surprlus that allows you to build muscle, strength, and slowly gain weight. With one exception. If you are scrawny and it's your first bulk, slam away. It's good for both learning how to eat, and getting some weight up. My first bulk I went from 145-175 and was very happy with it. The next winter I was back down to about 160, wanted to try it again so I ate like a pig up to 180....almost all fat the second time, wasn't worth it, by the time I cut I was right back to where I started. I've decided since to just go slow and steady, and it's not as fun, but I feel a lot better. Even then, usually "hard gainers" are people that just don't eat. They don't naturally have an appetite. They say it's so hard to gain while they eat 1700 calories a day. There are a few exceptions though obviously. If you feed a scrawny guy the food that got me fat, he'll be fat too. That was me, and still is mostly. As long as I control myself with candy and sweet stuff, I eat pretty much to match my energy expenditure for the day, I always have. Big appetite on big days, almost nothing on lazy days. It was a hard thing to train myself out of, and still do it mostly. I'm just smarter about it now, I go for calorie dense food to pad lazy days. I haven't tracked to do a real bulk in a few years, I really should, but it's a PITA, and I know I'll just overdo it and end up over fat again. I've been gaining about 2 lbs a year, which is miniscule, but I'm fine with it, my BF% has stayed pretty much the same, so it's likely lean mass. All the guys I graduated with are either skinny fat or fat fat, I would rather keep looking good naked and go slower now. Its hard for me to judge on myself, i grow crazy easy, especially now that I'm on drugs. And i lost 70 pounds so my stomach has some loose skin and looks blurry even if I'm lean. I had pec, ab, and quad veins when i was natural but barely a 2 pack starting. I can gain 2 pounds a week without really trying. I started lifting again 10 weeks ago, I'm doing 45 minutes of cardio, eating bro, only lifting 8 sets a day and I'm gaining. Averaging 2050 calories a day. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 9:43:06 AM EDT
[#16]
OP, you can't gain over a couple pounds of muscle/month (naturally).
Eating anything over a surplus in support of that isn't productive. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 10:15:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are eating to lose mass, not to gain it. Recomping is possible, but it's a tightrope to walk. Most people do it in cycles, drop fat until you either stall on strength or like your BF percentage, then increase calories and work on gaining muscle. This |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 10:25:15 AM EDT
[#18]
I was able to lose weight, simultaneously cutting fat and adding muscle. You need more frequent workouts, add some cardio and eat a lot of low fat/cal and high protein foods. I tried to aim for protein sources that were at least 1 gram of protein per 10 calories; tuna, grilled chicken breast, protein shakes and bars.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 9:55:35 AM EDT
[#19]
You need to be eating at least 1g of protein per lb. of body weight in order to effectively start maintaining the lean muscle mass you have. The research shows that as long as you are getting enough protein, you can slide your calories in several different ways more effectively. I shoot for about 10-25% deficit from BMR, which is moderately aggressive, but not TOO aggressive. But calorie wise, I eat my 190g of protein, however many calories that ends up being, and fill the rest of the calories with carbs and healthy fats. Once I go to a bulk phase, I'll increase until I'm 10-20% surplus, but again, eating AT LEAST 1g of protein per lb. of body weight.
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Posted: 2/12/2021 9:58:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to be eating at least 1g of protein per lb. of body weight in order to effectively start maintaining the lean muscle mass you have. The research shows that as long as you are getting enough protein, you can slide your calories in several different ways more effectively. I shoot for about 10-25% deficit from BMR, which is moderately aggressive, but not TOO aggressive. But calorie wise, I eat my 190g of protein, however many calories that ends up being, and fill the rest of the calories with carbs and healthy fats. Once I go to a bulk phase, I'll increase until I'm 10-20% surplus, but again, eating AT LEAST 1g of protein per lb. of body weight. I thought it was 1g per 1kg of body weight to maintain? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 10:46:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Assuming your goal is to gain lean muscle mass, lower your BF% first. A lean mass reacts more efficiently to protein uptake. Remove simple carbs first (bread, pasta which convert to sugar at a faster rate). Ex. Tuna salad, etc. If that still doesn't get you where you want to go, remove the complex carbs (fruits and vegetables). Roughly 30% of the 180 Amino Acids in a protein chain won't get digested unless attached to a fat cell. This means you need "good" fat like flax seed oil.
Muscle cells are formed by the destruction of actin and myosin https://biologydictionary.net/actin-and-myosin/ This means when working out, focus on the eccentric motion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentric_training Many factors go into building lean muscle. Most supplements do not work and only add stress to your kidneys and liver. If you want to do it naturally, stick with the basics and be patient. If you want gains and don't mind androgenic side effects, hormones are the only way. Most athletes are on them, yes, even cyclists and golfers. Good luck and make sure you get your blood work done to be safe. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:27:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: So started dieting in early October. I've dropped from 230 to like 204. Eat around 1500-1800 calories a day. I've been working out in the gym, for the past couple of months. My schedule is M/W/F and I skip t/t/sat/sun. I've noticed increases in strength/ability, but not much as far as look. I usually also take a protein shake per day, maybe around 40grams. From research it appears I need to be around 1g/lb, or roughly 5 times what I am taking now. I'm also wondering if I have some conflicting goals, weight loss and muscle gains. I'm wondering if I need to be eating more, and thus the exercise will turn it into muscle instead of fat. You can do both, but it's hard. I did it...back when I first got serious about working out I went from 172 and likely 18+% of body fat to 188# and 10% BF (measured in a tank). I did this by some intermittent fasting and mostly a paleo like diet, lowish carb but not keto. I was doing either crossfit or dedicated weightlifting during this time period which spanned probably...2 years. ETA- I could have done it faster had a tracked my intake and macros closer....I didn't. I didn't really have a set goal of putting on muscle and losing fat, I was simply working to get fitter. |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 2:12:49 PM EDT
[#23]
EAT MORE. 1500 - 1800 calories is what a woman would eat just to maintain.
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Posted: 2/13/2021 3:45:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought it was 1g per 1kg of body weight to maintain? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You need to be eating at least 1g of protein per lb. of body weight in order to effectively start maintaining the lean muscle mass you have. The research shows that as long as you are getting enough protein, you can slide your calories in several different ways more effectively. I shoot for about 10-25% deficit from BMR, which is moderately aggressive, but not TOO aggressive. But calorie wise, I eat my 190g of protein, however many calories that ends up being, and fill the rest of the calories with carbs and healthy fats. Once I go to a bulk phase, I'll increase until I'm 10-20% surplus, but again, eating AT LEAST 1g of protein per lb. of body weight. I thought it was 1g per 1kg of body weight to maintain? Nah, since kg is 2.2 lb: "A common recommendation for gaining muscle is 1 gram of protein per pound (2.2 grams per kg) of body weight. Other scientists have estimated protein needs to be a minimum of 0.7 grams per pound (1.6 grams per kg) of body weight." |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 4:08:18 PM EDT
[#25]
A meta-analysis of randomized control trials found that intakes above 1.6g of protein per kilogram of bodyweight (-.73g per pound of bodyweight) did not contribute to gains in fat free mass.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28698222/ You'll often see higher recommendations in fitness magazines or web sites that, surprise surprise, sell a lot of ads for protein supplements. |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 5:33:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A meta-analysis of randomized control trials found that intakes above 1.6g of protein per kilogram of bodyweight (-.73g per pound of bodyweight) did not contribute to gains in fat free mass. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28698222/ You'll often see higher recommendations in fitness magazines or web sites that, surprise surprise, sell a lot of ads for protein supplements. You would think we would have an answer to that question by now but I don't think that shitty study is going to do it. They made an assumption that there is a protein intake that once exceeded, will yield no further improvements, and then did the regression accordingly. Even at that, some of the data appears to show guys seeing better results with more. The Hoffman one is probably the only one I've looked at that seemed very relevant but they kinda starved those guys. They didn't really attempt to show how much would be too much either I guess. |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 6:36:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would think we would have an answer to that question by now but I don't think that shitty study is going to do it. They made an assumption that there is a protein intake that once exceeded, will yield no further improvements, and then did the regression accordingly. Even at that, some of the data appears to show guys seeing better results with more. The Hoffman one is probably the only one I've looked at that seemed very relevant but they kinda starved those guys. They didn't really attempt to show how much would be too much either I guess. What I linked to was a meta analysis of 49 RCTs. 6 of those were 2g protein/Kg of bodyweight or greater according to figure 5. |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 7:17:29 PM EDT
[#28]
A study of studies. Figure 5 illustrates what I was trying to say there about their regression. They made a fairly big assumption there.
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