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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 9:27:19 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: Yes, a lot ballistically. But the .308 fans won't admit it. You can pull up many comparison articles that support the fact that the 6.5 is superior to the .308. That doesn't mean that the .308 is a bad cartridge, it just means that there are newer cartridges that easily outperform it. https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/top-6-long-range-competition-cartridges/363484 Awesome thank you. I do already reload for .308 so I was hoping I could cross use some of the components if I stuck with 308 haha I do want to move to a bolt action for this soon too |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 9:33:15 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By deanwormer: What caliber do F class open shooters use (1000 yards)? Not 6.anything! Prs rifle calibers |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 9:36:58 PM EST
[#3]
264 Win Mag
6.5mm for the win! |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 9:37:00 PM EST
[#4]
I went through the same thing recently. I've got a 6.5CM, and I would like to get out to a mile or more one of those days, it may be after I retire, but it's on their list.
I bought a Barrett MRAD in .300NM, planning to reload. But it looks like it's going to be a while before I can source the components. So I picked up a .300PRC Barrel. I may end up with a .308 or 6.5CM barrel as well at a later date, for shorter range practice. They also offer .338 Norma, and .338LM if I decide I want to do that eventually. I was in a position I could afford the rifle and accessories, and nothing's going to get any cheaper, so why not. I still need better glass though. Being able to change calibers in a couple of minutes was a big plus for the MRAD.  |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 9:50:30 PM EST
[#5]
6.5cm or 300 Norma
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:02:47 PM EST
[#6]
.28 Nosler
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:10:22 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: I yearn for 5000’ ASL. I wish I’d gotten into long range shooting when I lived in AZ. NoVA is a basement compared to the wide open spaces and thin air out west  Yeah Az is changing a lot with a ton of gross influence from Cali and Chicago, but one thing that keeps me hangin in there is my little 2000 yard range I have set out on public land about 35 mins from my house. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:11:38 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: Yep. My house is at 5400 ASL, and it definitely makes a difference! I went to one of my old spots east of flagstaff this summer at 6200 ASL, that Lapua FLIES up there. 
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:13:49 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Awesome thank you. I do already reload for .308 so I was hoping I could cross use some of the components if I stuck with 308 haha I do want to move to a bolt action for this soon too There’s another guy here that does some cool stuff with his 308s, loads heavies and sends them slow and steady. It’s really cool. Popnfresh or something like that is his name. You can have a lot of fun with any caliber doing LR. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:14:52 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr_Nimslow: I went through the same thing recently. I've got a 6.5CM, and I would like to get out to a mile or more one of those days, it may be after I retire, but it's on their list. I bought a Barrett MRAD in .300NM, planning to reload. But it looks like it's going to be a while before I can source the components. So I picked up a .300PRC Barrel. I may end up with a .308 or 6.5CM barrel as well at a later date, for shorter range practice. They also offer .338 Norma, and .338LM if I decide I want to do that eventually. I was in a position I could afford the rifle and accessories, and nothing's going to get any cheaper, so why not. I still need better glass though. Being able to change calibers in a couple of minutes was a big plus for the MRAD. http://i.imgur.com/GMHVuRm.jpg What’s wrong with that glass? |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:37:19 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By deanwormer: What caliber do F class open shooters use (1000 yards)? Not 6.anything! Prs rifle calibers That's not about F class |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:37:47 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbrad197: There’s another guy here that does some cool stuff with his 308s, loads heavies and sends them slow and steady. It’s really cool. Popnfresh or something like that is his name. You can have a lot of fun with any caliber doing LR. Well that’s good to know gives me a little hope lol thank you |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:43:32 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: That's not about F class Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By deanwormer: What caliber do F class open shooters use (1000 yards)? Not 6.anything! Prs rifle calibers That's not about F class |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:54:46 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2JokersWild: The broader take away is 6.everything is used extensively for long range Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By deanwormer: What caliber do F class open shooters use (1000 yards)? Not 6.anything! Prs rifle calibers That's not about F class https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/getting-started-in-f-class-shooting/83645  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:58:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: TheWhiteHorse]
[#15]
Where are you in Wyoming OP?
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:59:37 PM EST
[#16]
30-378 Weatherby.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:09:50 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OregonShooter: 30-378 Weatherby. The BarrelSlayer has entered the chat. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:11:46 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: Yep. F class open is pretty wide open as far as calibers go. https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/getting-started-in-f-class-shooting/83645 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20962/Fclass2_jpg-3034619.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: Originally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By deanwormer: What caliber do F class open shooters use (1000 yards)? Not 6.anything! Prs rifle calibers That's not about F class https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/getting-started-in-f-class-shooting/83645 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20962/Fclass2_jpg-3034619.JPG Sure it's very open by rule. Get on an f-class forum and ask what to shoot at 1000 and the answer is 284Win or some fancier 7. More people are starting to manage the recoil of 300 winmag or similar 6 or 6.5s are much more competitive cartridge at 600 That's for f-class which has little or much transfer to other things depending on the things. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:12:01 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PredatorWhacker: .28 Nosler Jesus H Christ…. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:26:47 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: Where are you in Wyoming OP? Casper ish area |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:28:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: Shootindave]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: Jesus H Christ…. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker: .28 Nosler Jesus H Christ…. 338-404 Wapiti Express |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:34:44 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: Jesus H Christ…. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker: .28 Nosler Jesus H Christ…. 
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:37:34 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Get a RPR in 6.5CM. That. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:46:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: Sovereign14er]
[#24]
Today the best BC's are in 6.5 or .338 or .408 Choose whichever powder charge you like behind those. 6.5 PRC is probably the best rounded 6.5 choice atm.
Take a close look at the 7mm PRC though. The rifles are coming with high twist rates. And max OAL is pretty long. This indicates that they likley plan a line of high BC bullets for it and it could very well overtake the 6.5 and spawn a whole new batch of FOTM cartridges. I have a 6.5 CM which will give you the lighter end of the recoil spectrum for mainstream rounds capable of 1000+ at a competition level. But I'll also say it's not for me and one of my least favorite rounds so i shoot it a lot less. I also shoot 338LM which I'm a big fan of but it's expensive. Move into .408 and it only gets worse but the .408 chey tac can overtake the 50bmg in down range energy in less then 400yds. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:50:16 PM EST
[#25]
300 prc
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Posted: 11/21/2023 3:26:47 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Casper ish area @Smd226 |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 6:23:05 AM EST
[#27]
Whatever you do, unless it's a very common cartridge (6.5 CM or .308 Win), buy all the brass and ammo you can find for it. If the last few years have taught the shooting world much, niche cartridge availability becomes almost cost prohibitive and very difficult to source.
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Posted: 11/21/2023 7:41:58 AM EST
[#28]
Until you've rung out all you can learn from a good .308, you're just throwing money at a people problem in buying stuff to get further out, imho.
.308 is a sweet spot for value, usefulness, learning, performance especially if you already own it. Starting from scratch, other calibers do some things better. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 7:43:40 AM EST
[#29]
Thank you everyone
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:09:47 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: .300 PRC, .300 Norma Mag, or .338 Lapua Magnum When I built my one-mile rig I went with 338LM as 300 PRC wasn't a thing, and 300 Norma Mag didn't have a solid supply of brass from anyone besides Norma. If doing it today I'd go 300 PRC. I handload, but you can buy 300 PRC off the shelf that'll get you to 1500yds and beyond with some consistent impacts. ETA: while 6.5 Creed and other short action cartridges can get you a mile, they start to get really inconsistent when the wind picks up. They're also a major pain in the ass to spot as the lighter bullets moving relatively slowly by the time they get out there don't make much splash on steel to call hits or in the dirt to spot misses. Well lucky for OP he lives in Wyoming where the wind hardly blows... |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:20:05 AM EST
[#31]
Originally Posted By Smd226: I want to start shooting past 1000 yards I k ow I’ll need a lot of practice before I get into it but white everything getting more expensive by the day I want to get what I can when I can. What’s a good caliber to start with? It will be target shooting only. One of the companies I'm involved with teaches precision rifle and we go out to 1,300 yards. Several of our clients have ended up purchasing Bergara HMR rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor as one of our primary instructors in precision has that setup. They've all performed extremely well. 6.5 creed is a good cartridge for distance shooting. It's widespread enough that you can find ammo pretty easily and it performs. It's not the peak performer that some of the newer cartridges like .300 PRC is, but they tend to be more expensive, less available, and they eat barrels faster than 6.5 creed. You can spend any amount of money imaginable on a precision rig. But "cheap and cheerful" doesn't really work out terribly well in this arena. If you're serious about doing it, something like the Bergara HMR is about as inexpensive as you're going to be able to get a suitable rifle. Then you're going to need a good quality mount and some good glass. Those will easily be more than the cost of the rifle. Then you need a bipod (at a minimum...a tripod is a good idea), and some decent support bags. WeiBad makes good stuff there and at a minimum you'll need a rear bag. After you get some skill in the use of it then you can look into whether or not you want to invest in an Arca-Swiss setup for your rifle. It's expensive, but having used a Bergara fully kitted out with the Arca stuff it's amazing how much more stable it is on a tripod than just with clamps like the Hog Saddle. Nothing about this is cheap, but you don't have to go nuts and spend ten grand right off the bat. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:21:31 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MDog26: I played it safe when I bought my Bergara Premier HMR Pro. I didn't know much about the 300 PRC at the time and I really wanted to stay with a caliber that had more options in factory loadings. Now, I want the improved performance of the PRC and the reloading benefits of a non-belted case. Who knows, maybe I did it right and just need to purchase another rifle in 300 PRC I do like my 300 Win Mag, but that short neck (and that case really didn't ever need to be belted) prevents me from loading heavier, high-BC bullets.The Bergara HMR is an outstanding rifle. Every one I've seen has been an incredible performer once set up properly. Every one of them able to hit 1.5 MOA targets with the right wind call. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:24:14 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: But it’s great to learn the dials and dope on your scopes. For cheap. A .22LR at 100 yards is as effected by wind as a .308 at 800. The AMU's precision guys spend a fair bit of time training with .22LR. I don't think they do much with it past 150, though. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:33:58 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Is there really that big of a difference between .308 and 6.5 CM? I'll put it this way: I see 7.62 in class all the time. Quite often it's in a very well set up gun that is a laser beam out to about 800 yards. And then after that, shit gets squirrely depending on the setup. You can absolutely get 7.62 out to 1,000, but few who confidently say that discuss that it's going to take the right projectile with the right barrel length to make those distances. Or that pretty much everybody in the competitive arena has moved well past 7.62. So I regularly see good 7.62 setups like a Remington 700 Tactical that's been worked on by somebody competent deliver outstanding performance out to 800 or so with 168 grain BTHP match ammo...which is what lots of people ended up with because that was the LE sniper gun for a long time. That barrel with that load is out of gas at about 800 on its best day. Meanwhile I've had people in class who have never shot further than 100 before making hits on 2 MOA targets at 1,000 with 6.5 creed like it was their job. It's just easier to get hits with at extended range than .308. For a long, long time 7.62 was the standard in precision rifle work but the limitations of the cartridge are what they are. A skilled hand with the right setup can push the boundaries of it, but the people who are the most skilled and do the most distance work ditched it in favor of 6.5 and the plethora of boutique cartridges for extended precision work we see now. 6.5 creed is now what 7.62 was 25 years ago in terms of being a standard. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:35:04 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr_Nimslow: I went through the same thing recently. I've got a 6.5CM, and I would like to get out to a mile or more one of those days, it may be after I retire, but it's on their list. I bought a Barrett MRAD in .300NM, planning to reload. But it looks like it's going to be a while before I can source the components. So I picked up a .300PRC Barrel. I may end up with a .308 or 6.5CM barrel as well at a later date, for shorter range practice. They also offer .338 Norma, and .338LM if I decide I want to do that eventually. I was in a position I could afford the rifle and accessories, and nothing's going to get any cheaper, so why not. I still need better glass though. Being able to change calibers in a couple of minutes was a big plus for the MRAD. http://i.imgur.com/GMHVuRm.jpg I've only seen a few MRADs in class, but they're outstanding performers as well. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:58:20 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: The Bergara HMR is an outstanding rifle. Every one I've seen has been an incredible performer once set up properly. Every one of them able to hit 1.5 MOA targets with the right wind call. I am not a good PRL shooter but I like mine.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:59:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbrad197: I went to one of my old spots east of flagstaff this summer at 6200 ASL, that Lapua FLIES up there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbrad197: Originally Posted By AZ_Sky: Yep. My house is at 5400 ASL, and it definitely makes a difference! I went to one of my old spots east of flagstaff this summer at 6200 ASL, that Lapua FLIES up there. Stop...I can only get so hard. I live 36ft above sea level now, and the place where I shoot the mile match isn't all that much higher in the grand scheme of things (449ft)  ETA: all of that being said, we had a guy who built a custom .308 space gun bring it out and go 8 for 8 on a 36" square at 1 mile with hot 185gr Jug handloads. The mount had something like 60MOA built into it, and it was apparently quite the pig to zero at 100yds, but he got that little .30cal bullet out there  OP, take a look at what distance you really want to make hits at and go from there. If it's 1500yds and in, and you don't mind taking a few shots to get on target at that range, a 6.5 Creed will do you well. If you want to consistently get on steel (that isn't the size of a car) beyond 1500yds you're either going to be long loading 153gr 6.5s and/or stepping up to a cartridge with more powder capacity. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 11:23:30 AM EST
[#38]
Thank you everyone
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:05:14 PM EST
[#39]
Another weird question how are the Howa. Barreled actions?
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:16:39 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Another weird question how are the Howa. Barreled actions? Sample size of 1, my best friend bought one in .243 for a prairie dog gun and it’s a laser. Also keep in mind he is the luckiest son of a bitch on earth. Every gun he buys turns out to be a laser and runs like a top, even guns that statistically speaking should suck. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:30:53 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Another weird question how are the Howa. Barreled actions? In my experience, excellent. Howa barreled action dropped into a KRG Bravo chassis, Timney trigger. 6.5C handloads-  Attached File |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:32:55 PM EST
[#42]
Awesome thank you both. I’m just looking at my options and wondered how they were
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:43:29 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smd226: Another weird question how are the Howa. Barreled actions? The pic I posted earlier in the thread is a howa. I'm very happy with it. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:51:16 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chargerkid5: The pic I posted earlier in the thread is a howa. I'm very happy with it. Oh awesome thank you |
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USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 12:54:55 PM EST
[#45]
Start with 6.5 CM.
Once you're loading consistently and making consistent routine hits at 1000 with the 6.5CM, only then move up to one of the new whizbang big boy cartridges to start getting out to 1500+. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 1:02:50 PM EST
[#46]
You’re going to get better by shooting as much as possible not using the best cartridge possible.
If you’re just getting into it I’d skip all the big magnum and PRC cartridges. They are much more expensive in every way. 6.5 Creedmoor is the easy button, 308 is going to be even more economical and will get to 1000 with ease. Regardless of what caliber you get invest in good glass. For me that is the single biggest factor in making successful hits at long range. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 1:03:23 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: I'll put it this way: I see 7.62 in class all the time. Quite often it's in a very well set up gun that is a laser beam out to about 800 yards. And then after that, shit gets squirrely depending on the setup. You can absolutely get 7.62 out to 1,000, but few who confidently say that discuss that it's going to take the right projectile with the right barrel length to make those distances. Or that pretty much everybody in the competitive arena has moved well past 7.62. So I regularly see good 7.62 setups like a Remington 700 Tactical that's been worked on by somebody competent deliver outstanding performance out to 800 or so with 168 grain BTHP match ammo...which is what lots of people ended up with because that was the LE sniper gun for a long time. That barrel with that load is out of gas at about 800 on its best day. Meanwhile I've had people in class who have never shot further than 100 before making hits on 2 MOA targets at 1,000 with 6.5 creed like it was their job. It's just easier to get hits with at extended range than .308. For a long, long time 7.62 was the standard in precision rifle work but the limitations of the cartridge are what they are. A skilled hand with the right setup can push the boundaries of it, but the people who are the most skilled and do the most distance work ditched it in favor of 6.5 and the plethora of boutique cartridges for extended precision work we see now. 6.5 creed is now what 7.62 was 25 years ago in terms of being a standard. Well said. FWIW, the first time I wrung out a 5.56mm at 1k (well, 980yds according to the laser, couldn't get the last 20) my shooting partner was using a 700 5r with Match King handloads, a very well respected setup not that many years ago. The difference in dope between the 5.56 with TMKs and the .308 at that range was less than 0.2mil IIRC. That may give you a better idea of the .308 (and 5.56s) true capabilities, but it also ignores the one factor that was not present that particular day, which is wind. The new tech makes a profound impact on the ability to make first round hits at distance. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 1:06:09 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morlawn66: Had a 6.5 CRDM built on a 700 action I had , never went past a 1000 yds w/ it . In 2016 in a short action that was it . I would like to go up to a mile but not w/ that rifle. I shoot alone and that is a problem , need to buy a target cam to spot shots . Get a better scope. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 2:12:49 PM EST
[#49]
As far as a true long range caliber I started with a 308 and I am still there to this day.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 3:40:12 PM EST
[#50]
Thank you again everyone
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