I use my PTO at every conceivable opportunity. Hell, I used it twice in the last 10 days when our terminal has shutdown operations due to the weather conditions, e.g., boss sends out a group chat in the morning saying that all the trucks are buried, so don't worry about coming in. Ok, I'm gonna login to ADP and use 12 hours today.

We're years past a national contract and the unions finally declared an impasse and we can get things moved towards a PEB.

So I didn't read anything but the headline of this thread, I'm telling you it's not going to happen and if it does, it'll be extremely short lived. I've worked for BNSF for over 22 years, I can remember one strike in my career from the operation guys (conductors and engineers) and it lasted less than 24 hours. You know why? The government will FORCE the unions back to work. So even if they do, it's not lasting very long.

The Executive Branch has authority to mandate railroad unions back to work.

If BN shuts down my company is fucked.

This. Especially with the shape the supply chain is in.

This. Especially with the shape of our supply chain.

Pretty sure I hear that RR guys can only strike up to 48 hrs anyways.

They must run to Portland than up as there are two tunnels here in Washington and one is to small, if I remember right intermodal won’t fit either, there was a push by BNSF to enlarge the smaller one, but environmentalists shot that plan down. I think there are only three ways to Seattle and only two of them are passable with large loads. Getting to Renton with a fuselage narrows that down to two. I know that it has been slowly picking up as far as traffic but as of yet still not what it used to be. The intermodels are still down out of the ports but coal is still king.

This is some interesting reading.

Railway_Labor_Act

Just you wait till BN takes full control of MRL in 9 or so months, and a ton of people walk out/get laid off/commit sabotage.

It is going to get stupid as fuck.

Can't be many left based the the engine bone yard in Gillette Wyoming. Over a thousand of them!

When it rains it pours

Donkey Creek is a pretty fascinating scene of mothballed units.

Yeah, that would be even worse. But the BN/MRL reps said it would be seamless!

I've only had one unexcused layoff in the past 13 months, and I'm not sure if even I can survive this new policy.  All it takes is to get the flu a few times in a 24 month period, and I'm fucked.  

Sure, you can use a PLD or VAC day.  That is, IF the computer allocation system allows it, and it usually doesn't for immediate lay offs.

I really need to get my CDL back.

The system now allows using VAC and PLD for immediate layoffs.

The problem is that are almost never any immediate allocations available. There is no agreement specifying how allocations must be calculated and maintained so the shitbrain psychopaths at LR give us ONE daily allocation for a yard work group with 30 people working in it on any given day.

shit cant get out of LA anyways, its all robbed from the trains before it can get out of the city limits, way to go california.  

I agree. FMLA is there in case you need it to protect you. Some people, once they have it, use any excuse to use it.
I had it for when my wife was going through breast cancer. I used it a couple of times to go with her to Dr appointments.
Most times she had them scheduled for after I was done work.
Luckily, we had a good support group of friends that were retired, that could take her to treatments. I would pick her up when I was finished work.

i don't know whats more depressing, the fact they said it seriously or the fact they seem to be proud of it.

Not that it matters, but I always liked to allocate 1 man off/1 extra man for every 10.  20=2.  Etc.  That seemed to work pretty good.  It doesn't take a genius to figure this out:

Let's use a 20 man roster.  Assuming each man has 10 days of vacation per year, 5 days of sick leave.  We actually used to lump it all together and call it "Earned Time Off" or "ETO".  

So 15 days x 20 men = 300 days.  There are 261 normal working days in a year so the allowable time off requires an additional 1.14 men.  Obviously if you round DOWN to 1, not everyone can take their time off.  That wasn't acceptable to me - our policy was always "you earned that time off and should get to use it".  

So we would have 2 extra FTEs.  The extra .86 man would get used up for things like dumping rock, third man on a heavy switching day, and to support training.  

Now, where it would get ugly was in WHAT days you got to take off.  We would require allocation of vacation days in one week blocks, in seniority order, and only allow 2 off on any given day or week.  By the time you got to the bottom of the roster, you were getting the week nobody else wanted........but you still got time off.

that's because we pay deductions that no other industry/employee pays. we pay a tier-1 tax, that basically pays into social security. we then pay a tier-2 tax, that goes into the rrb pension. we don't get to collect ss when we retire though just rrb. (some guys with more ss time than rrb time will be allowed to pull ss payments, but they're deducted from a total averaged number of your rrb payment. there are lawyers and accountants to make this work for the claimants) we are also the only industry with private job insurance (to pay you if you are terminated/suspended) and federal laws to allow us to sue the employer for violation of federal safety standards/laws. (FELA)

it's all worth it though, after working for 40-50 years, then dying a month after you retire .....

Didn't used to be...except in wartime...which is why railroad workers escaped the draft during VN

Didnt they used to allow Trainmasters the ability to override the system on behalf of an employee who really needed off?  I think upper management removed that feature a few years ago.  Now it is completely done by the system, which doesn't care if you need off for frivolous reason or you have a temperature of 105.

It's a very simple algorithmic equation:  you hit 'enter' and the computer says 'no.'

he's still mad about me hitting him at the crossing, and then laughing when he got those tickets.

killing people at crossings is what helps keep the gene pool filtered. it always sucks when you take out passengers, but i'll never feel bad about a driver. if you're too stupid to avoid getting hit by a train, your bloodline wasn't intended to be carried on.

I just lost 55 hours of it, was promised to be paid but never saw it.

These days it's not old fashioned, it's just plain dumb. PTO is part of your compensation package at most companies.   You not using your PTO is like handing a couple paychecks to your employer and saying you don't want them.  

I get 5 weeks vacation and 3 floating holidays, use it or lose it policy.  I'm not letting the company keep my money.

Amen!  I've got 12.5 months left before retirement.  I can only roll over 675 hours of sick leave and 337.5 hours of annual leave towards my "time served" and raise my retirement income by 6 months of service.  Any thing over that, use it or lose it.  I have to burn off 215 hours of S/L this year in addition to my 30 work days of annual leave.  That's 5.5 weeks off of S/L and 6 weeks of A/L. (based on 7.5 hrs per day) I'm glad I bought a new boat.  

Why do you think they’ll walk out or commit sabotage? I don’t know any MRL guys but it sounds like they’ll get a pay raise, probably better benefits, and they’ll have prior rights so they won’t have to worry about not being able to work at home.

I’d like to know more if you’ve got info.

Why not, let's just screw up everything.

First off FMLA is a joke.  Few people use it for what it was created for but whatever.  

Second I don't speak railroad but if by "layoff" they mean picking up the phone and calling off from work or not coming in when you are on call the above doesn't seem bad.  

Who can't make it to work for 15 scheduled days in a row?  Who wouldn't be banking 4 points 2X a month while coming to work.  If 80% of the workforce is going to get in trouble with that policy the way I understand it the workforce is different than the people I have worked with for the past 35 years.

If I am not understanding the attendance policy correctly please enlighten me because the way I am reading this it is just sad.

I get six weeks PTO a year. 2021 was the first time in ten years that I used it all.
Plan to this year, too.

Let's add a truckers strike.  Shut it all down.   The potato did it.

Trump won in 2020.  Eat shit Democrats.

And, as American Airlines pilots found out, the POTUS can step in and stop the strike even if released to self help by a judge. That would have been good, solid Democrat President Clinton. RR and Airline labor groups are handcuffed to their companies by the seniority system and bent over by the RLA.

I’d rather cut my own deal than rely on corrupt unions, corporations and judges.

TC

Ex-fucking-zacktly. The (labor) arbitrators have the cushiest job in the world.

TC

...

Truman man handled the railroads........at the onset of the Korean 'conflict'.

"25 Aug 1950: Truman orders Army to seize US Railroads"

https://samoaglobalnews.com/25-aug-1950-truman-orders-army-to-seize-us-railroads/

See, that's how it needs to be. Just more fed/corporate inbreeding as it stands now.

I'm pretty sure he meant he doesn't call-in or have 5 or more unscheduled personal/sick days a year.

I used to be that way. Perfect attendance awards and all that junk. Then I started having 60-72 hour weeks due to the "labor shortage" and jackasses abusing FMLA and COVID quarantine precautions. I'm now 2-points from being fired due to 8-absences in a year.

Yes, when they are talking about laying off, it is an all-encompassing term for a railroader taking time off work (sick day, FMLA, vacation, paid personal day, union business, etc).

The majority of railroad workers work 24/7/365 on call.  No rest days, no weekend.  As it stands now, for the majority they can layoff 7 times in a month (5 on weekdays and 2 on weekends; and that would be their only time off in 30 days; for the most of the rest of the working world that works 5 days a week, they typically get at least 8 days off a month).  Now do you understand why this is no bueno?  They are basically taking away your ability to have a "weekend" (which is really just a single day).  In order to get those 4 points back per this new program, someone has to work 14 straight days, with no time off other than the 10 hours after you clock out.  NO "WEEKEND/DAY OFF
".

So if you laid off on a high impact day, or weekend, that one layoff will cost you as many points as you might be able to gain in a month, if you are lucky.  And it isn't working  8am to 5pm.  It's all hours, very random, and involves "catching your rest" in a hotel every other day.  Disruption of circadian rhythm all the time.  This means you spend more time either at work or in a hotel in a week, than you spend actually at home.  

It would be extremely difficult to make family events, take care of home stuff, errands, etc with this new policy.

Working on call means you have an hour and a half when they call you to report to work, and for a lot of railroaders, the "lineup" of when they project you to show for work is ridiculous.  They'll change your projected on duty time 15 times in a 12 hour span, so you really can't commit to doing certain things or making appointments.

Even for the ones that do work a "schedule", it's often crappy rest days (Tue/Wed off).  Keeping in mind it's still work around the clock, so plenty of guys are working the midnight shift.  And if you get on a good shift, you never know when someone else will bump you off it.  The only guys that really work M-F 8-5 on the railroad are the guys that have been around 25-30 years.  And in some yards, they can "force" you to a crappy shift if someone vacates that position.  So, without warning you can get forced to a new shift with new rest days and start times.  So much for those plans you made.

If you work a M-F job during a normal shift that doesn't ever change, you really don't have a frame of reference.  Railroaders use the sick time as their weekend/family time.

I'm going to guess when you mean scheduled days you think this is a regular job you go in at a certain time and leave.  The railroad is nothing like that and until you've lived a job like that which is exactly what you do you're opinion doesn't mean much.  Your kids were screaming all day and you didn't get any sleep you're going to work all night long.  Get to the hotel and they only have rooms next to the road so you hear traffic all day and then they wake you up at 11 am because it's checkout time and the clerk is new.... You're going to work that day.  16 hour day back because the van company that is supposed to bring your relief crew can't find drivers, yay you're guaranteed 16 hours at home.  Oh, you had an appointment you were sure you'd be back for but that v round trip took 12 extra hours too bad.  You're back home again and the lineup is showing for 1700 on your rest at the end of that 16 hours. You sleep all day and are ready to go to work but it falls back again to 2000 then 2200 and finally they call you at 0130 for 0330. Yep you had 24 hours off but you're not exactky awake or rested. The next morning when you get into the hotel your buddies all ask if you can make a weekend trip next weekend.  You just smile and reply maybe, I'll let you know next Friday when you already know there isn't a chance in the world you'll be off. I've worked 12 hour shifts on nights. A schedule like most railroaders have isn't remotely close.

Justin & Thirteener thanks for the clarifications!  So other than scheduled vacations like "we rented a house at the beach" you are on call 24/7.  That is tough.  No wonder people call off.  

We limit people to 72 hours per week.  Though occasionally we lift the limits to 84 hours per week.  Though the shifts would always be 4A-4P or 4P-4A Monday-Sunday for example.  

Hiring must be difficult.  I can't imagine too many young folks having any interest in that lifestyle.  

For the most part no you don't. The occasions that you can be free from getting called are constantly being removed. For instance contractually if I was displaced seniority wise by someone else I have 24 hours to place myself to a different job.  It tends to not happen as often with more seniority but in the new policy of I take more than 2 hours it resets that 14 day period.

The only hard cap on hours is the 276 per month.  Actually working something like 72 in a week is easier because if you are it's probably on a board that's so short that you're working every 12 hours.  At least you know when you're going in.

The railroads that have switched to similar systems are.  They cut before and during the pandemic and now can't find enough bodies to hire. BNSF had traditionally not had problems because it was the most liberal policy wise and the pay/ benefits had always been good.  In their wisdom they've decided to copy everyone else.  Last I'd heard most newhire classes aren't getting filled. I know very few coworkers that would encourage anyone to hire on and that's a huge change from years ago.  It's always been a difficult lifestyle but they want to grab every penny they can. I feel it's going to backfire pretty spectacularly. Up until recently nearly everyone I knew with 10 or 20 years of seniority universally hated their job and wanted to leave.  Now the same people are a step from just walking out the door.

Clearly you never worked for the railroad.  We get 5 days of vacation AFTER first year of service.  10 days of vacation after 2 years of service every year till your 8th year, you get 15 days off plus a personal leave day.  After 17th year of service you finally get 20 days and 2 days of personal leave.  

That is pathetic to me.  Especially because most of us railroaders are on the road ALL YEAR.  Sick days?  Nope, we dont get paid sick days either.  This imposition is a slap in the face to all class 1 rail roaders.

Most of the guys they hire are ex military or come from a rural / small town background;  you are not going to find too many hipster millennials.  They try to hire women but as soon as they start having kids, they're out.

Another thing they want to do:  say you have a week's vacation coming up, so you book your flight to Tahiti for Monday morning.  They don't pull you off the board until the night before at 22:00, so you could very well get called to work at 21:30, be gone 36 hours, and miss your flight.  Guys in that situation would lay off sick so they wouldn't miss their flight.  This railroad is going to make that a "conjunction penalty" that takes away more points than if you just laid off a single day.  

huh?  we don't have gov benefits.  Actually we have the worst benefits of any unionized job.

As a railroader, you might work the same amount of hours, give or take.  You just don't know when those hours will be.  You might get an easy week and work less hours, but again, you just don't have any idea ahead of time.  Every day is different.  At our terminal where guys take a train from A to B, you might have a 2 hour van ride in lieu of a train, so you can go to the hotel to rested for a later train to bring back.  You might catch a train and not have any other train traffic in your way and get there in 5 hours.  You might have a "normal" trip and take 10-12 hours.  You might have the trip from hell and not even make it halfway but still are on duty for 14 hrs.  Every trip here is a different story, but the same ending.  

And unlike the post office, we are all weather.  For the guys that work in the railyards, they spend pretty much their whole shift working outside in the weather.  Rain/snow/sleet/ice/cold/hot/muddy/dry/windy.  If it hails we'll go inside and wait it out.  ;)

The road crew guys will spend most of their shift in the engine, but some yards/trains the conductor will have to spend 1-2 hours outside adding/removing cars from his train before they depart, and possibly do the same when they get to the next yard.  (some places the train crew gets lots of "through trains" where they just hop on and go, and take it to the next changeover point).

What are they going to do?  Show up with guns?  This is America;  I don't have to work there if I don't want to.

Exactly.  If we all quit they'd be fucked.  That is a real strike.    Sadly most wont quit in solidarity.  

Edit: In my division alone atleast 30 guys I know have quit this year and about 10 have been terminated.  And about 12 retired.  Half the guys they hired in the last 2 years have quit on top of it (not included on the 30 guys I know that have quit)   Everyone is short guys here.  They expect us that are still here to do the extra work every day with no overtime pay.  Welders doing section work.  Machine operators flagging contractors.