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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:24:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Sounds like the railroad is out of their minds.
Drew Gmitro says: January 20, 2022 at 5:14 pm I work for BNSF as an engineer. The policy punishes individuals for ANY kind of layoff, be it “union business” (for union local chairman), people using FMLA, DIF (death in family), Jury Duty, even using your paid layoffs, such as vacation or paid leave days. What it comes down to in my opinion, is the company HATES FMLA and has no control over it. They feel doctors hand it out “like opioids in the 90’s” and they cannot do anything about it. Under the old attendance policy, you had a “rolling 90 day” of which you were required to be available in “unassigned service” 75% of the time. So in essence, one was allowed 5 weekday layoffs and 2 weekend layoffs each month for a total of 7 unpaid layoffs. Under this new “points system”, there is no “rolling 90 day period”. Instead, you’re given 30 points. Every layoff adds points. For example Mon – Thurs layoff = 2 points, Fri & Sat = 4 points, Sun = 3 points. Holidays and “high impact days” (Mothers Day, Father’s Day, Halloween, Black Friday, along with every holiday day prior and day of basically) = 8 points. Missed call or layoff on call = 15 points. Points only go up, never down, unless you work 15 straight days without ANY KIND OF LAYOFF WHATSOEVER, in which case you earn 4 points. Once you reach 30 points, you’re in violation and subject to discipline and dismissal. After violation the first time and discipline, they reduce you from 30 points to 15 points. So for example, if I layoff one day every 14 days, two layoffs each month, spaced 2 weeks apart, I’d be in trouble within a 2 – 4 month time frame, JUST FOR TAKING 2 DAYS OFF EACH MONTH !!!!!! This Policy is heinous and will bring 80%+ of employees in trouble at some point, many sooner rather than later. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:27:24 AM EDT
[#2]
That and the recent DHS requirement for entrance at the Southern Border (except for illegals
 ) It is going to make the supply chain issues worse.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:29:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Heard about that yesterday I think. And while the points system was being described, all I could think was that it was orchestrated to fuck over the workers as much as possible. Apparently BNSF wants to loose as many employees as possible?
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:34:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heard about that yesterday I think. And while the points system was being described, all I could think was that it was orchestrated to fuck over the workers as much as possible. Apparently BNSF wants to loose as many employees as possible? Maybe they plan to sue if anyone quits to go to greener pastures? Seems to be working for that one hospital! 
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:35:24 AM EDT
[#5]
There is a law against RR workers striking??
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:35:40 AM EDT
[#6]
I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:36:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. "Old Fashioned" would be taking at least 52 days off each year. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:37:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like the railroad is out of their minds. Yeah that's donkey balls. It seems like companies treat their workers like shit then wonder why they have problems with staffing shortages and worker retention. I got a dozen other places that would hire me on the spot, so if you want to ride my ass over taking some PTO or medical leave you can fuck right off. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:37:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Most people take time off. Vacation. Deer season Just had enough and need a break. They give you PTO, use it. Life is too short to stay stuck inside a building full of people you don’t like, doing things that people have to pay you to do. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:40:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Railroads have been a cluster for some time.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:40:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people take time off. Vacation. Deer season Just had enough and need a break. They give you PTO, use it. Life is too short to stay stuck inside a building full of people you don't like, doing things that people have to pay you to do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Most people take time off. Vacation. Deer season Just had enough and need a break. They give you PTO, use it. Life is too short to stay stuck inside a building full of people you don't like, doing things that people have to pay you to do. Also @Boomer for info if he can share. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:41:35 AM EDT
[#12]
All the class 1's seem to be in a race to the bottom. Gutting themselves for short term gains.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:44:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. You work 360 days a year? That isn't old fashioned - it's compulsive. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:46:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Other than approved vacation time.. I don't take much time at all off. I just got my ass kicked by Covid for about 2 weeks, and had plenty of sick time to cover that. That said, I agree w/ the RR on one thing.. FMLA is abused like crazy by docs and employees. It's ridiculous. As for the other stuff.. we're getting one side of the story. From the sounds of it they work kinda like truckers, where you get one day of "home time" for like every 12-14 days of time your OTR. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:46:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. I take a great amount of pride in the work that I do, I make sure that I do a good job (people's lives depend on it) and I make sure that the money I am paid by the company is not a waste for them. BUT I also use 100% of the PTO I earned, because not using it would be effectively reducing my compensation. If the company can't handle me taking time off, they shouldn't give me the time and include it in my "total compensation" package. Same goes for sick time. What BNSF is attempting is insane. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:47:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I take a great amount of pride in the work that I do, I make sure that I do a good job (people's lives depend on it) and I make sure that the money I am paid by the company is not a waste for them. BUT I also use 100% of the PTO I earned, because not using it would be effectively reducing my compensation. If the company can't handle me taking time off, they shouldn't give me the time and include it in my "total compensation" package. Same goes for sick time. What BNSF is attempting is insane. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. I take a great amount of pride in the work that I do, I make sure that I do a good job (people's lives depend on it) and I make sure that the money I am paid by the company is not a waste for them. BUT I also use 100% of the PTO I earned, because not using it would be effectively reducing my compensation. If the company can't handle me taking time off, they shouldn't give me the time and include it in my "total compensation" package. Same goes for sick time. What BNSF is attempting is insane. I take it it doesn't roll over? (Mine does) |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:49:15 AM EDT
[#17]
FMLA. If you want to work, work. If you want frivolous time off, don't impose on your employer and your fellow employees who have to take up your slack.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:50:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they plan to sue if anyone quits to go to greener pastures? Seems to be working for that one hospital! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Heard about that yesterday I think. And while the points system was being described, all I could think was that it was orchestrated to fuck over the workers as much as possible. Apparently BNSF wants to loose as many employees as possible? Maybe they plan to sue if anyone quits to go to greener pastures? Seems to be working for that one hospital! Heard about that injunction, I don't even play a lawyer, but I'm having a hard time justifying preventing an at-will employee from going to another job. Hopefully there's something I don't understand going on, and the judge is about to break it off in the "old" hospital. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:52:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Not sure what you do for a living, but I am pretty sure that is not considered "old fashioned". There is more to life than working. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:52:22 AM EDT
[#20]
I bet the judge sides with the RR given the current environment. But, reading that statement posted, that sounds like a horrible place to work and complete bullshit for the workers.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I take it it doesn't roll over? (Mine does) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. I take a great amount of pride in the work that I do, I make sure that I do a good job (people's lives depend on it) and I make sure that the money I am paid by the company is not a waste for them. BUT I also use 100% of the PTO I earned, because not using it would be effectively reducing my compensation. If the company can't handle me taking time off, they shouldn't give me the time and include it in my "total compensation" package. Same goes for sick time. What BNSF is attempting is insane. I take it it doesn't roll over? (Mine does) A certain amount does, but it's less than you earn in a year, so if you don't take some time off during the year, you will lose some of your accrual. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:56:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Railroads have been a cluster for some time. Every thing I ever hear about working for a railroad makes it seem that the company has an entire department devoted to making the job as horrible as possible. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:59:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Thats not old fashioned thats sad as fuck |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:04:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every thing I ever hear about working for a railroad makes it seem that the company has an entire department devoted to making the job as horrible as possible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Railroads have been a cluster for some time. Every thing I ever hear about working for a railroad makes it seem that the company has an entire department devoted to making the job as horrible as possible. And no doubt there is a tangle of laws and regulations to aid in the cluster I know is because my tax forms specifically say something about working for a railroad. No other industry gets a line! |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:04:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats not old fashioned thats sad as fuck Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Thats not old fashioned thats sad as fuck I'm DeDiCaTeD tO tHe CoMpAnY |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:04:37 AM EDT
[#26]
How are people supposed to loot trains if the trains ain't picking up fresh inventory to move it to vibrant cities?
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:04:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That and the recent DHS requirement for entrance at the Southern Border (except for illegals ) It is going to make the supply chain issues worse.Northern Border as well! |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:09:25 AM EDT
[#28]
I’ve got several relatives that have retired from the RR. The stories they tell of the company screwing over employees are insane. Great retirement but it’s a bitch to make it that long.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:11:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How are people supposed to loot trains if the trains ain't picking up fresh inventory to move it to vibrant cities? Well it appears no one is thinking about them, they should have a contract as well. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:12:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Other than approved vacation time.. I don't take much time at all off. I just got my ass kicked by Covid for about 2 weeks, and had plenty of sick time to cover that. That said, I agree w/ the RR on one thing.. FMLA is abused like crazy by docs and employees. It's ridiculous. As for the other stuff.. we're getting one side of the story. From the sounds of it they work kinda like truckers, where you get one day of "home time" for like every 12-14 days of time your OTR. Yeah, that will burn out a driver faster than you could say, "we're hiring." Most companies are one day off per one week out. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:15:58 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm DeDiCaTeD tO tHe CoMpAnY My wife's probably being made airtight by my neighbor and best friend because I'm never home; but by god damn it. I'm loyal. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:16:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Good luck getting a judge to sign off on a strike. Labor law judges and arbitrators are the most corrupt animals on the face of the earth.
TC |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:21:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:21:34 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Be a real man and take no days off. I had a heart attack on the factory floor and made those mother fuckers install a full medical suite so I could keep working because I love the fucking place. My wife's probably being made airtight by my neighbor and best friend because I'm never home; but by god damn it. I'm loyal. It's funny, because in certain other times and places if you refused to take a day off each week you were put to death. Ok, yes, a religious requirement. And for some mysterious reason the religious requirement was an order to rest. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:25:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. Well...in "unassigned service" other than your awarded yearly vacation you don't have any assigned days off. You'll get a day off or so in-between train trips but there is no way to guarantee when that is going to be, and you can pretty much guarantee it's not going to be when you want. Couple that with the fact that they tend to deny you your ability to take a single days' vacation or personal leave so you can get to a appointment or a family function so you end up having to take an UNcompensated day that incurs the points. We have some boards that the phone is ringing to go back to work again every 10hrs, that catches up to ya. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:29:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. So you go to work on your weekends? I don't have weekends. I don't have any scheduled days off. If there's an allocation for a paid day available we can use those. Weekends spots for that are much lower than weekdays. If i need off Friday for an appointment or a flight or anything that has to happen that day I am likely laying off Thursday and possibly even Wednesday just to be home on the Friday. If I don't have paid days in for those days and layoff sick to make it to that day not only does it now count the points for a sick day you get a "conjunction penalty" for laying off next to that paid day. I work the same as or more than your 160 hours a month. I had a 17 hour day on my last trip going to the hotel, actually made about an hour and a half of overtime on that one which typically isn't possible. If you're a Union officer laying off to defend a member at an investigation that resets the 14 day period for you to earn your "good attendance" points so if you have to layoff sick later in the month you're SOL. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:29:29 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I'm old fashioned, but I don't take 5 days off all year. My wife teaches, so she gets most of the summer off ; however during the school year, she NEVER takes any time off, ever. She can accumulate regular and sick leave nad she's got almost 6 months worth. She has another ten years to retire, but at this pace, she could cash it in and cut almost a year and half off of her retirement eligibility. Have spent almost 30 years in the military, over the past 20 years, they've built in more time off when not deployed. Spend a few operational deployments where you go anywhere from 6 months to 18 months of 7 days a week and 12-14 hour days and I've learned to appreciate taking time off regularly just to decompress. Now that I'm on the contract side getting a decent salary, plenty of PTO and the company matching most of the federal holidays, I find I really don't need to take much time as I can work time off during my two-week pay period schedule. I'm sitting at 200 hours of PTO and I have co-workers who have been here as long as me struggling to have enough for Covid ( we don't get sick leave/hours), or other emergencies. And I can still work my schedule to have a couple of decent vacations each year and still maintain a healthy leave balance. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:30:14 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet the judge sides with the RR given the current environment. But, reading that statement posted, that sounds like a horrible place to work and complete bullshit for the workers. UPRR implemented a similar program last year and there was a lawsuit, the judge ruled it a "minor dispute" and therefore not strikable and must be dealt with at arbitration. I suspect the same will happen here. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:34:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That and the recent DHS requirement for entrance at the Southern Border (except for illegals ) It is going to make the supply chain issues worse.I dont think most people are paying attention to this. It was put in place last week, all foreign truckers crossing the border North and South have to show proof of vaccination. I forget the number or trucks each day but is was a lot and they estimated 40-50 are not vaccinated. Also, any trucker int he US working/delivering for any govt contract has to show proof of vaccination. It's almost as if they are purposely trying to cripple the supply chain. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:37:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a law against RR workers striking?? ehhh The RLA, Railway Labor Act makes it very difficult to do so. Even if you follow all the steps and are eventually allowed "self help" AKA the ability to strike, the company will run to a judge that will order you back to work within hours. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:38:10 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heard about that yesterday I think. And while the points system was being described, all I could think was that it was orchestrated to fuck over the workers as much as possible. Apparently BNSF wants to loose as many employees as possible? One of the first things you hear when you work for a railroad is that they hire you and then spend the rest of your career trying to fire you. It's sadly not that far from the truth. It's mostly because up until this policy ours was the most lenient by far and in their mind to compete with the other larger railroads (that are coincidentally 3 of the top 5 worst companies to work for) that we need to follow suit. Several are having manpower issues as we speak and have been having meetings with the FRA to explain what's going on. Overtime for the most part doesn't exist on many of the jobs so their is an incentive to have as few employees as possible working to pad the bottom line. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:38:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the class 1's seem to be in a race to the bottom. Gutting themselves for short term gains. It's the CEOs last year and he want's a epic bonus. After that it's someone else's problem |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:41:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: UPRR implemented a similar program last year and there was a lawsuit, the judge ruled it a "minor dispute" and therefore not strikable and must be dealt with at arbitration. I suspect the same will happen here. I agree you're probably right. However, the UP system doesn't punish Union Officers for representing their members, those who use FMLA, and didn't have to same amount of infringement on contractually paid leave and vacation days like this one seems to though. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:49:45 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree you're probably right. However, the UP system doesn't punish Union Officers for representing their members, those who use FMLA, and didn't have to same amount of infringement on contractually paid leave and vacation days like this one seems to though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: UPRR implemented a similar program last year and there was a lawsuit, the judge ruled it a "minor dispute" and therefore not strikable and must be dealt with at arbitration. I suspect the same will happen here. I agree you're probably right. However, the UP system doesn't punish Union Officers for representing their members, those who use FMLA, and didn't have to same amount of infringement on contractually paid leave and vacation days like this one seems to though. gotcha, so they reached for the moon and you'll likely end up with what we've got. Hope not, hope you win the suit and keep the old policy |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:50:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck getting a judge to sign off on a strike. Labor law judges and arbitrators are the most corrupt animals on the face of the earth. TC Something most people don't have to experience thankfully. When you have companies who tell arbitrators to their face that if you don't rule in their favor we'll never use you again and get away with it. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:51:04 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont think most people are paying attention to this. It was put in place last week, all foreign truckers crossing the border North and South have to show proof of vaccination. I forget the number or trucks each day but is was a lot and they estimated 40-50 are not vaccinated. Also, any trucker int he US working/delivering for any govt contract has to show proof of vaccination. It's almost as if they are purposely trying to cripple the supply chain. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That and the recent DHS requirement for entrance at the Southern Border (except for illegals ) It is going to make the supply chain issues worse.I dont think most people are paying attention to this. It was put in place last week, all foreign truckers crossing the border North and South have to show proof of vaccination. I forget the number or trucks each day but is was a lot and they estimated 40-50 are not vaccinated. Also, any trucker int he US working/delivering for any govt contract has to show proof of vaccination. It's almost as if they are purposely trying to cripple the supply chain. Yep. I saw a number of 13% for Mexican truckers are vaxxed. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:53:03 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I saw a number of 13% for Mexican truckers are vaxxed. I can't imagine that cards are hard to come by in ol mehico. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 11:02:19 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: gotcha, so they reached for the moon and you'll likely end up with what we've got. Hope not, hope you win the suit and keep the old policy I'd be very suprised. My guess is it's going to end up being the new one with modifications. "Reached for the moon" is exactly how it feels. To be honest I can't believe they put those in there. When they've discussed it at town hall meetings it feels like they're almost gloating about this new wonderful policy that we can't do anything about. With the, at least in my eyes blatant violations of Federal law in them it's somewhat scary that they feel they can get away with it. For most employees it's not if I get fired from this policy it's when and that's what has everyone fired up. Might as well strike legally or not and get it over one way or another. This is from employees with 10-20+ years making six figures with what is still a relatively good retirement system. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 11:02:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They give you PTO, use it. |
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