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Posted: 2/2/2023 3:56:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with a pistol, unless your muscle memory is so good you don't have to use the sights, you need to train more. That's why pops started me out with a 410 shotgun without a front sight dot. Dry fire is free, but I'm a fan of laser setups. It makes it fun, whether for one, or multiple people. Have the LaserAmmo kit with adapters for .223, 9mm, .40/10mm and .45, with both the Visible and IR modules. The Vis is great for training newbs. It makes flinching and jerking very obvious (instead of a dot, the laser makes a line. The worse they jerk, the longer the line). I also have a bunch of the laser sensitive targets that work with both the Vis and IR laser (the LaserAmmo i-MTTS 5-pack, as well as a Keiron Speed and 2 regular Keiron targets). With multiple people, you can take turns placing the targets while the other folks are out of the room, or have their backs turned. Use the Keiron Speed as the timer stop (turn and start on the beep frim tge Speed. The Speed is the last target to hit, and stops the timer). With folks who are decent, use the IR laser so they can't walk their shots in. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:05:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think there is "some" overlap, but the comparison gets strained when you compare mission statements and mindsets. When I was an 03 in the Marines, my mission was to "Locate, close with and destroy the enemy by fire and movement, or repel his assault with fire and close combat." As a everyday US of A citizen, I just want to get home intact physically, legally and monetarily. As an infantry guy I learned to identify enemy weapons systems. As an armed citizen I need to understand criminal pre-assault indicators. As an infantry guy I needed to stop the bleeding, so there's definite overlap there. The big difference is mindset. As an infantry guy I was told to go looking for trouble. As an armed citizen I need to avoid, deescalate and depart if at all possible. I will be subjected to extreme scrutiny for even displaying a gun. Fitness? Absolutely, but as I have aged that is changing a bit.  Communicate with higher, adjacent and lower? Yup, but now I am communicating with people I am in conflict with, or criminals and law enforcement. "Criminals" are the least of my concern at this point. I'm about to have ~1/3 of my wealth confiscated at gunpoint this April under color of law, and that's only one out of a long list of grievances. I'm not interested in being prepared (only) for some dude who wants my wallet. That's the easy part. So again, if you can't move, shoot, and communicate effectively with a team, fuck you (not you literally OP; the general "you"  ).
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:07:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Criminals" are the least of my concern at this point. I'm about to have ~1/3 of my wealth confiscated at gunpoint this April under color of law, and that's only one out of a long list of grievances. I'm not interested in being prepared (only) for some dude who wants my wallet. That's the easy part. So again, if you can't move, shoot, and communicate effectively with a team, fuck you (not you literally OP; the general "you" ).Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think there is "some" overlap, but the comparison gets strained when you compare mission statements and mindsets. When I was an 03 in the Marines, my mission was to "Locate, close with and destroy the enemy by fire and movement, or repel his assault with fire and close combat." As a everyday US of A citizen, I just want to get home intact physically, legally and monetarily. As an infantry guy I learned to identify enemy weapons systems. As an armed citizen I need to understand criminal pre-assault indicators. As an infantry guy I needed to stop the bleeding, so there's definite overlap there. The big difference is mindset. As an infantry guy I was told to go looking for trouble. As an armed citizen I need to avoid, deescalate and depart if at all possible. I will be subjected to extreme scrutiny for even displaying a gun. Fitness? Absolutely, but as I have aged that is changing a bit. Communicate with higher, adjacent and lower? Yup, but now I am communicating with people I am in conflict with, or criminals and law enforcement. "Criminals" are the least of my concern at this point. I'm about to have ~1/3 of my wealth confiscated at gunpoint this April under color of law, and that's only one out of a long list of grievances. I'm not interested in being prepared (only) for some dude who wants my wallet. That's the easy part. So again, if you can't move, shoot, and communicate effectively with a team, fuck you (not you literally OP; the general "you" ).
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:17:24 PM EDT
[#4]
I've pretty much stopped shooting, I shoot my carry gun twice a month and that's pretty much it for the last 12-14 months.
I am much more focused on lifting and cardio at this point. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:27:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You either believe in the purpose of the 2A as it was originally intended or you don't. That's fine if you don't, as long as you don't pretend that you do  I'll clarify that I'm not suggesting popping off any time soon; not there yet. I've done taxes every year for a while now. What I'm suggesting is that training with pop guns so you can dead criminals is an infinitesimally small part of being a gun owner--or an American citizen for that matter--and that we need to broaden our understanding of what it is to train. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:45:53 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:49:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Is this an advertisement?
Also, I wanted to post “fetch”
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:52:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Been shooting for over a half of century, practice a lot with many different types of weapons, you would not want me shooting at you with any of them.
 People new to it should get trained and plenty of range time after that to stay proficient. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:53:47 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm old and I don't give a fuck about much. That's worth quite a few weekends of carbine courses.
Now get off my lawn. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:56:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryIt's a great DVD series, but sometimes you just need to talk to someone: |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 5:57:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've pretty much stopped shooting, I shoot my carry gun twice a month and that's pretty much it for the last 12-14 months. I am much more focused on lifting and cardio at this point. Lifting and cardio are absolutely good things! I know a guy who says "Carry 24-7 or guess right"... hard to argue with that logic as the Bad Guys choose the time and place. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:02:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Right now my glaring needs are fitness and wilderness survival skills.
I've addressed the fitness. I'm going to have my co worker who's offered to take me hunting multiple times up on it. I also need to learn fresh water fishing. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:16:45 PM EDT
[#13]
It's not just about acquiring skill, it's keeping them fresh, too. Skills are perishable. They atrophy.
I instruct much more than I shoot, and my shooting has suffered. I need to find a better balance. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:28:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not just about acquiring skill, it's keeping them fresh, too. Skills are perishable. They atrophy. I instruct much more than I shoot, and my shooting has suffered. I need to find a better balance. YES. The higher your skill level, the more you have to do to maintain that level. I used to do one Appleseed event a year just to maintain proficiency. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:41:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never stop learning and never stop being teachable. There is ALWAYS someone who knows more than you. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 12:48:19 AM EDT
[#16]
I’m reading and appreciate all the perspectives folks offer here. I know I need better preparedness on several fronts. Keep it coming folks.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:04:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Estimates for Texas: https://i0.wp.com/blog.krtraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Slide13.jpg?w=1280&ssl=1 LTC = License To Carry Can we actually be free if we don't train? SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The well regulated part was just word salad that has no bearing on SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:06:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Firearms manipulation (shoot), comms (communicate), fitness (move), and team tactics, in no particular order. If you don't have the skillset (or better) of the basic infantryman, fuck you. If you're too old/physically disabled, do what you can to support those who aren't. Become logistics in whatever capacity that means for you. You'd be better off doing philosophy, narrative, and understanding SAODA loop, but ok. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:09:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Criminals" are the least of my concern at this point. I'm about to have ~1/3 of my wealth confiscated at gunpoint this April under color of law, and that's only one out of a long list of grievances. I'm not interested in being prepared (only) for some dude who wants my wallet. That's the easy part. So again, if you can't move, shoot, and communicate effectively with a team, fuck you (not you literally OP; the general "you" ).B A S E D We need more SUT tax revolts that trigger the Hegelian dialect, ceding more narrative ground. How can we help? |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:10:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You either believe in the purpose of the 2A as it was originally intended or you don't. That's fine if you don't, as long as you don't pretend that you do I'll clarify that I'm not suggesting popping off any time soon; not there yet. I've done taxes every year for a while now. What I'm suggesting is that training with pop guns so you can dead criminals is an infinitesimally small part of being a gun owner--or an American citizen for that matter--and that we need to broaden our understanding of what it is to train. Lol. "Not there yet". It'll never be there either, you've lost the propaganda war and use your firearms skill as a psychological safety blanket. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:50:50 AM EDT
[#21]
So who's watched the video? Opinions? What would you change?
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:57:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Being able to hit your target is important. Being able to run to a spot to shoot from is importanter. Being smart is importantest
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Posted: 2/3/2023 12:07:26 PM EDT
[#23]
I don't use big words, I just shoot bad people that threaten my life or the lives of those I hold dear.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 12:13:53 PM EDT
[#24]
As far as Critical Handgun Skills, this is my list:
-Safety -Fundamentals of Marksmanship including shooting out to 25 yards -Alternate shooting positions (Crouch, squat, kneeling, prone, rollover prone) -Drawing from concealment -Shooting from cover -Drawing from cover -Turn and fire (90 deg Left and Right, 180 deg) -Multiple targets -Strong side only -Verbalization/verbal challenge -Shooting while moving -Transition from other response option -Support side only -Medical: Self care & staying in the fight -Point shooting -SUL position -Up drills (1 sec or less) -Failure to stop drills -Precision shooting/Hostage accuracy -Rapid fire (0.5 sec splits) Balance of Speed and Accuracy -Malfunction clearing including doublefeeds -Retention shooting (3 yards or less) -Thinking while shooting -Shooting strings up to 6 -One hand draw (strong side) -Moving targets -Supine position -In quartata -Drawing/Shooting while seated -Physical stressor before shooting -Judgement (shoot/no shoot) -Fighting in/around vehicles -Low light: flashlight or NVG including clearing malfunctions and reloading -Target Discrimination -Moving safety around non-threats -Firing safely next to non-threats -Slidelock and tactical reloads for time -Transition to backup gun -Strong side only malfunction clearances -One hand draw (Support side) -Support side only malfunction clearances |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 12:17:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Do not have the time or funds to get the kind of training that I feel would be most beneficial and it has next to nothing to do with ability to shoot.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 12:41:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do not have the time or funds to get the kind of training that I feel would be most beneficial and it has next to nothing to do with ability to shoot. STOP THE BLEED® Interactive Course is FREE and doesn't take much time. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 7:39:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Basic Life Support training is here for FREE (they only charge for the questionable cert, not worth the $)
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Posted: 2/3/2023 8:48:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol at out of date MBA buzzwords. “ paradigm” was a joke by 1989. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 8:54:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Pistols are irrelevant to the purpose of the Second Amendment. Start learning light infantry skills and small unit tactics if you haven't already.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 8:55:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryGood shit. Medical skills are essential. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 8:56:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pistols are irrelevant to the purpose of the Second Amendment. Start learning light infantry skills and small unit tactics if you haven't already. Where would one learn such things? |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:01:36 PM EDT
[#32]
I'd argue if you aren't regularly competing and practicing then you're nowhere near as good as you think you are, and frankly probably a liability.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:36:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pistols are irrelevant to the purpose of the Second Amendment. Start learning light infantry skills and small unit tactics if you haven't already. Small unit tactics? You mean…like working with other people? Are you saying that we should be preparing to possibly fight alongside, and for, others? Like I would be concerned about someone else’s survival, and maybe even their freedom? Yeah…we don’t do that around here anymore. As long as we can all don our Hawaiian shirts and fight individually, while minding our own business, we should be just fine. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:41:33 PM EDT
[#34]
I plan to overcome my lack of skill with more expensive guns and optics.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 9:31:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I plan to overcome my lack of skill with more expensive guns and optics. All can be learned in a carbine course. This is all you need. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 10:03:15 AM EDT
[#36]
I'm attempting to walk the path, but under the realization that I'm not Bruce Wayne and can't be Batman.
I'll leave the martial polymathy to the paid professionals and millionaire eccentrics. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 10:20:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most Americans should probably just focus on their fitness. None of these cool-guy moves mean shit if you can't cover distance on foot without dying from heart failure. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:42:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I plan to overcome my lack of skill with more expensive guns and optics. I should have included that in the poll! |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 11:57:32 AM EDT
[#39]
The minutemen shown in this depiction of the Battle of Concord trained once per week:
 They kicked the Redcoat's @sses. Anybody think they could have won our freedom without training? Don't we owe it to them to maintain our freedom? Taking the time for one class a year isn't much compared to their sacrifice. Project Appleseed offers weekend classes in the $100 range... now including pistol classes... so I don't see training as being too expensive for most people. Whether it's free online medical training, NRA training, Appleseed training, or top tier instructors like John, my advice is to get on the path and get some training. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 12:03:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pistols are irrelevant to the purpose of the Second Amendment. Start learning light infantry skills and small unit tactics if you haven't already. I don't disagree that rifles are important. But this is something to think about: Why Pistols Were Primary in Special Ops  Why Pistols Were Primary in Special Ops |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 12:18:11 PM EDT
[#41]
There's a recent interview with Matt Pranka where he was asked why he spends most of his time on developing and over-developing hard skills.
He said that it takes a guy only a few hours to learn where to stand in a room for CQB but it takes many, many hours and even a lifetime to learn how to shoot at an aggressive but accurate pace. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 12:57:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a recent interview with Matt Pranka where he was asked why he spends most of his time on developing and over-developing hard skills. He said that it takes a guy only a few hours to learn where to stand in a room for CQB but it takes many, many hours and even a lifetime to learn how to shoot at an aggressive but accurate pace. I think @whiskersthecat agrees That's why I play so much call of duty, to develop the warrior mindset. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 1:01:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with a pistol, unless your muscle memory is so good you don't have to use the sights, you need to train more. That's why pops started me out with a 410 shotgun without a front sight dot. Fat girls are an easy target. Just present it and the rest falls into place..... might not be the right place but it will get the job done on your end |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 1:14:25 PM EDT
[#44]
It's a nice one.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 1:14:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think @whiskersthecat agrees That's why I play so much call of duty, to develop the warrior mindset. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's a recent interview with Matt Pranka where he was asked why he spends most of his time on developing and over-developing hard skills. He said that it takes a guy only a few hours to learn where to stand in a room for CQB but it takes many, many hours and even a lifetime to learn how to shoot at an aggressive but accurate pace. I think @whiskersthecat agrees That's why I play so much call of duty, to develop the warrior mindset. Yup. Offensive CQB classes are a total delusion of well meaning gun owners. If you don't get through your first one thinking "That was cool, I will literally never perfect this craft" then you had the wrong takeaway. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 1:27:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Offensive CQB classes are a total delusion of well meaning gun owners. If you don't get through your first one thinking "That was cool, I will literally never perfect this craft" then you had the wrong takeaway. I don't think I'm alone in saying that in virtually every 'advanced' class I've taken whether it's low light, CQB, Vehicle... the most common theme I've seen is poor practical performance. Bad gun handling, inconsistent grip, bad muzzle awareness, bad trigger control. Pretty much all the things you can work out in dry fire. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 1:32:06 PM EDT
[#47]
VTOL dogfighting drone with big machineguns and AI and lasers to fight the bad guys.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 1:34:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think I'm alone in saying that in virtually every 'advanced' class I've taken whether it's low light, CQB, Vehicle... the most common theme I've seen is poor practical performance. Bad gun handling, inconsistent grip, bad muzzle awareness, bad trigger control. Pretty much all the things you can work out in dry fire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yup. Offensive CQB classes are a total delusion of well meaning gun owners. If you don't get through your first one thinking "That was cool, I will literally never perfect this craft" then you had the wrong takeaway. I don't think I'm alone in saying that in virtually every 'advanced' class I've taken whether it's low light, CQB, Vehicle... the most common theme I've seen is poor practical performance. Bad gun handling, inconsistent grip, bad muzzle awareness, bad trigger control. Pretty much all the things you can work out in dry fire. It's more than that. It's about realizing the amount of time you would need to practice to have any advantage. One of my instructors did VBSS with the Marines and I asked him about that. He laughed and said that's probably the best takeaway I could have, but they kept offering them because they filled the fastest. He said he spent over two weeks where the entire day they only practiced where the first foot goes. |
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Posted: 2/4/2023 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#49]
I'm half Swiss so there's that citizen/soldier thing in my heritage, but past that I just go out of my way to be as good as I can be with whatever I'm interested in. I was doing great for awhile there, getting 2-3 really good training classes in a year, but I had to skip a couple years and I really hate that.
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Posted: 2/4/2023 2:55:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The minutemen shown in this depiction of the Battle of Concord trained once per week: https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/battling-the-redcoats-at-concord-bridge-massachusetts-on-april-19-the-picture-id544182900 They kicked the Redcoat's @sses. Anybody think they could have won our freedom without training? Don't we owe it to them to maintain our freedom? Taking the time for one class a year isn't much compared to their sacrifice. Project Appleseed offers weekend classes in the $100 range... now including pistol classes... so I don't see training as being too expensive for most people. Whether it's free online medical training, NRA training, Appleseed training, or top tier instructors like John, my advice is to get on the path and get some training. Definitely the hero of that engagement, and it was his forethought, training of his men and personal sacrifice that made the stand at North Bridge. He was the exception rather than the rule. We need more Isaac Davis. And before anybody romanticizes him, he died right there. Find something to do and support it. If you can't find something, start something. Incidentally I first learned about him at an Appleseed (and about Sam Whittemore, my nom de internet.) Appleseed is a good use of a weekend, aside from the skills learned. In a modern context basic firearms skills are the easiest to learn. Fitness is probably the easiest to get, but it requires the most personal sacrifice and is what is lacking the most. When I look at any crowd I immediately begin counting the number of MAMs that even approach fighting fit. |
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