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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:33:54 PM EDT
[#1]
My home is 100% off grid.
Drilled well. Septic. Solar. LiFePO batteries. Starlink internet. Wood heat + propane heat. Insulation and air sealing are extremely important or your HVAC load will be stupid. My near term future plan is to increase solar size and switch to electric ground source heating/cooling. Plan on: ~$15k for batteries. ~$3k for inverters and battery management ~$5k for solar panels I don't like panels on the roof. I built my own ground mounts and can clean snow off them easily without getting on a ladder. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:37:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Also,
Wind is mostly a waste of time. I wouldn't waste a nickel on wind power unless you have perfect conditions for it. Solar is much easier to make work and scales linearly. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 8:41:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Where are you located in PA OP? I'm in the process of installing a 26-30kw system, w/ a switch so I can cut the poco out whenever I want. I've got 33kwh of lithium battery backup, but may expand that once the system is up and running.
I've got an anthracite boiler and back-up wood stove for heat in the winter, along with electric heat to keep the batteries from freezing, and a propane range/oven that I use year round. In the summer I use a heatpump water heater and run window AC units. Electric washer and dryer. OH, and I live in an old stone farm house built in the late 1700/early 1800's. Insulation is non existent! |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:00:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rain water....for drinking, bathing, etc.? How? Thanks I'm on catchment, roof runoff flows into 4 x 2500gal polypro tanks but first 15 gallons are diverted. Water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter, then an activated charcoal filter, then a UV sterilizer before entering the house piping. External spigots are unfiltered. About 4 times a year I treat the tanks with some bleach. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 9:52:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Clothes washing and drying machines, and electric stoves, hot water heating gobbles up huge amounts of power. I don't understand why solar water heating hasn't caught on here in the USA. When i purchased my home there was a solat water heating system installed, 2 4x7 panels on the roof + heat exchanger/Storage tank in the basement. I upgraded it with a new heat exchanger & pump, it saves me a bundle every year. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:24:07 PM EDT
[#6]
We built in 2018 ,4200 sq ft in the mountains. 100% solar/solar well/septic. Propane furnace/on demand water heater/ stove and dryer. Fully equipped modern home,2 fridge/ 2 full size freezer. Central ac , all led lighting. 8.8k solar array 48v system avg about 25kwh a day usage. Diesel genset backup power and yes, during winter or storm days we run it for an hr or 2.
#1 requires a serious lifestyle change from grid tie home. When the kids come visit power usage goes up, doors left open, water runs like we live on a lake. Pretend your camping and you only have what's in the trailer. #2 propane- the catch. A true off grid would heat and cook on a wood stove[we have 2 and use the living room one to heat in the winter but it is a lot of work ] I guess you could boil water and I suppose you could dry clothes on a line which we also do during summer. We live the modern lazy version of off grid. About $25k into solar,$45k into solar well and $5k septic. That's the basics. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:33:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We built in 2018 ,4200 sq ft in the mountains. 100% solar/solar well/septic. Propane furnace/on demand water heater/ stove and dryer. Fully equipped modern home,2 fridge/ 2 full size freezer. Central ac , all led lighting. 8.8k solar array 48v system avg about 25kwh a day usage. Diesel genset backup power and yes, during winter or storm days we run it for an hr or 2. #1 requires a serious lifestyle change from grid tie home. When the kids come visit power usage goes up, doors left open, water runs like we live on a lake. Pretend your camping and you only have what's in the trailer. #2 propane- the catch. A true off grid would heat and cook on a wood stove[we have 2 and use the living room one to heat in the winter but it is a lot of work ] I guess you could boil water and I suppose you could dry clothes on a line which we also do during summer. We live the modern lazy version of off grid. About $25k into solar,$45k into solar well and $5k septic. That's the basics. I'm confused....#25k for solar but $45k into solar....well? Then $5k for septic. The $45k is that for the digging/rigging of well system as a whole? So $75k to get 4200sq ft off grid? Also, we've experimented with using our wood stove for heat, cooking, and drying clothes. It actually excels at all of them over the electric counterparts. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:35:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where are you located in PA OP? I'm in the process of installing a 26-30kw system, w/ a switch so I can cut the poco out whenever I want. I've got 33kwh of lithium battery backup, but may expand that once the system is up and running. I've got an anthracite boiler and back-up wood stove for heat in the winter, along with electric heat to keep the batteries from freezing, and a propane range/oven that I use year round. In the summer I use a heatpump water heater and run window AC units. Electric washer and dryer. OH, and I live in an old stone farm house built in the late 1700/early 1800's. Insulation is non existent! I'm in the Lehigh Valley. What's your cost and what maintenance does/will that system require? How long will it last? I've seen 10 years thrown out earlier in the thread as the battery lifespan. Thanks |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:36:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand why solar water heating hasn't caught on here in the USA. When i purchased my home there was a solat water heating system installed, 2 4x7 panels on the roof + heat exchanger/Storage tank in the basement. I upgraded it with a new heat exchanger & pump, it saves me a bundle every year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Clothes washing and drying machines, and electric stoves, hot water heating gobbles up huge amounts of power. I don't understand why solar water heating hasn't caught on here in the USA. When i purchased my home there was a solat water heating system installed, 2 4x7 panels on the roof + heat exchanger/Storage tank in the basement. I upgraded it with a new heat exchanger & pump, it saves me a bundle every year. Solar PV has gotten so cheap that it's generally more cost effective to not bother with solar thermal. Certainly less of a hassle. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:37:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Sort of. See avatar. Adding more solar and lithium batteries next month for a total of 1050 watts solar and 700ah lithium. In the summer in the PNW with our current 600 watts and 500ah we can swing on the hook indefinitely. Winter time not so much especially since adding a watermaker. Installing the added panels and batteries will be huge but we’ll still need the eu2000i for running the mini washer dryer. Hoping that changes with the extra batts and solar.
ETA: Also use a diesel forced air heater while we are up here in the north. Currently in a marina till April so I can’t really say I’m off grid at the moment but will we be for the next several years after that. Short days and cloudy overcast days are no bueno for solar. We will likely add wind as an adjunct but by far solar is the best bang for the buck if you have the space. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:57:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm confused....#25k for solar but $45k into solar....well? Then $5k for septic. The $45k is that for the digging/rigging of well system as a whole? So $75k to get 4200sq ft off grid? Also, we've experimented with using our wood stove for heat, cooking, and drying clothes. It actually excels at all of them over the electric counterparts. To clarify, 25k for solar power for home. $45k well included drilling, permit,a stand alone solar pump run by 3 panels on its own. The drilling was almost$40k and yes we had a cow ! But yes, as I didn't buy a lot with an existing functional well I include that cost. And yes we have cooked and heated with our stove as well it just isn't always convenient and so while I could say 100% off grid I consider my home more of perhaps hybrid ? Hopefully that makes sense. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 12:05:09 AM EDT
[#12]
OP can't even replace a broken basement window pane without consulting GD. Now he wants take on this......
 COC 6 warning ~ Bollocks44 |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 11:30:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you considered one of those outside wood burners for heating and hot water needs in the winter? I've seen youtube videos where some are even set up to have the house side hotwater heater recirc hotwater to the wood burner outside in case the fire goes out (ie: you are away for the weekend or something) to prevent the water lines from freezing up. Seems like it would cut down on dust/ash/etc. from having a wood stove indoors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Heat with a wood stove and a pellet stove (100 watts while running). Propane for a tankless hot water heater (Heater is redundant.), dryer, oven/range and a small propane heater in the basement. Electric bill from last month (267 kWh: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/64530/C24F0537-C8C1-4461-9BEE-9D44DB7BF116_jpe-2249341.JPG For this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/64530/1A8BF2A8-B7D9-4686-B094-63045CA2B89B_png-2249348.JPG We are debating doing the off-grid solar route, but as you can see the payback time would a very long time. Have you considered one of those outside wood burners for heating and hot water needs in the winter? I've seen youtube videos where some are even set up to have the house side hotwater heater recirc hotwater to the wood burner outside in case the fire goes out (ie: you are away for the weekend or something) to prevent the water lines from freezing up. Seems like it would cut down on dust/ash/etc. from having a wood stove indoors. We looked into it and even the smallest unit is super overkill for our size home. @win1300 |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 11:39:18 AM EDT
[#14]
I have a 3200 sqft house and heated detached garage. My power bill is $4.20/month and that is a service fee to be hooked to the grid.
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Posted: 1/22/2022 11:40:57 AM EDT
[#15]
If you have a grid connection already or have an easy way (cheap) to get one, I would not go the off-grid path as the grid is a nice backup in case things go wrong.
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Posted: 1/22/2022 12:00:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a 3200 sqft house and heated detached garage. My power bill is $4.20/month and that is a service fee to be hooked to the grid. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/96670/D9205397-1151-40BA-8E95-FF0D8B90F9D4_jpe-2250050.JPG Impressive! I've heard of people/companies selling power back to the electric companies and they get a check instead of a bill. Are you able to do that? Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 12:35:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Impressive! I've heard of people/companies selling power back to the electric companies and they get a check instead of a bill. Are you able to do that? Thanks! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a 3200 sqft house and heated detached garage. My power bill is $4.20/month and that is a service fee to be hooked to the grid. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/96670/D9205397-1151-40BA-8E95-FF0D8B90F9D4_jpe-2250050.JPG Impressive! I've heard of people/companies selling power back to the electric companies and they get a check instead of a bill. Are you able to do that? Thanks! Nope, my power company does not operate like that. We have an annual schedule that starts/ends on April 30th. I bank power all year long but obviously more in the longer days of summer. If at anytime during the year I use more than what I have banked I get charged for my overage for that month (has only happened once in eight years and I paid $17 that month). At the end of April the poco will zero out my account and I don’t get paid for anything I have banked. I typically have 1600-1800 kWh banked going into the winter months. I typically have a few hundred kWh that I give back. I have actually become less energy efficient since the install because it is oversized. I keep the garage toasty warm all the time and use more electricity in the house (space heater, toaster oven, fans, etc). Our biggest expense power wise is a $600-800/year propane bill. Not bad.  |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:08:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: check out the youtube channel 'wild wonderful off-grid'. it's a couple who built a house in WV that is 100% off grid. solar with battery back up. they do have a propane genny for emergencies. They have a wood stove, but also have electric heat and A/C in the summer. They have a great channel that shows them building their house from the beginning and go over the prices of everyt5hing along the way. The wife and I are seriously looking at trying to copy what they have done That husband and wife work well together and he (I'm assuming he's the one w/ the skills) has some amazing building skills. She is smokin' hot!! |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:26:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, my power company does not operate like that. We have an annual schedule that starts/ends on April 30th. I bank power all year long but obviously more in the longer days of summer. If at anytime during the year I use more than what I have banked I get charged for my overage for that month (has only happened once in eight years and I paid $17 that month). At the end of April the poco will zero out my account and I don’t get paid for anything I have banked. I typically have 1600-1800 kWh banked going into the winter months. I typically have a few hundred kWh that I give back. I have actually become less energy efficient since the install because it is oversized. I keep the garage toasty warm all the time and use more electricity in the house (space heater, toaster oven, fans, etc). Our biggest expense power wise is a $600-800/year propane bill. Not bad. That makes sense. The idea of "banking" power does raise curiosity of potential utility of energy (electricity) though. Normally, when we have excess in life, we do something with it. Might be with food (leftovers) or money or whatever. We take that excess and do something to save/grow the excess. With electricity I'm not sure what you could throw it at beyond your storage capacities. It's not like you can have a project or machinery it would get funneled to to produce something tangible or for financial profit/gain.....but that seems like where I'd go with it. If I have X amount of surplus electricity from the sun and it's going to get funneled back to the poco (for no compensation) or sent into the ground/atmosphere or just no longer absorbed/produced by the system....maybe figuring out an additional use or storage for that runoff would be fun, productive, and possibly profitable? Just where my mind goes with it. 
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:27:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That husband and wife work well together and he (I'm assuming he's the one w/ the skills) has some amazing building skills. She is smokin' hot!! Always up for seeing hot women so I'll check her...err...the channel....out!  Thanks! EDIT: Yup, she's cute. I'm always curious what people do to fund these ventures because 1) Off-grid systems are expensive and time-consuming and 2) They need to be funded with a job that provides for daily life AND the systems. We'll see what they're all about. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:33:06 PM EDT
[#21]
I have a ranch house/shop (some would call it a barndominium or a Garage Majal), 2500 sq.ft. combined, that is actually totally off-grid, unlike the grid-tied systems so many here are describing. They won't provide electric service to this area.
I have a wind turbine, solar, a battery bank, and a backup Perkins 21Kw diesel generator. Rainwater collection system off of the roof, and a low-producing well when needed. Septic system. I'll try to post more on this later, but have to work cattle all weekend so will be Monday before I can get back on the computer. It's expensive and a pain in the ass to be truly off-grid, I'll say that much... |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:51:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a ranch house/shop (some would call it a barndominium or a Garage Majal), 2500 sq.ft. combined, that is actually totally off-grid, unlike the grid-tied systems so many here are describing. They won't provide electric service to this area. I have a wind turbine, solar, a battery bank, and a backup Perkins 21Kw diesel generator. Rainwater collection system off of the roof, and a low-producing well when needed. Septic system. I'll try to post more on this later, but have to work cattle all weekend so will be Monday before I can get back on the computer. It's expensive and a pain in the ass to be truly off-grid, I'll say that much... When can I move in?  |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:59:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a ranch house/shop (some would call it a barndominium or a Garage Majal), 2500 sq.ft. combined, that is actually totally off-grid, unlike the grid-tied systems so many here are describing. They won't provide electric service to this area. I have a wind turbine, solar, a battery bank, and a backup Perkins 21Kw diesel generator. Rainwater collection system off of the roof, and a low-producing well when needed. Septic system. I'll try to post more on this later, but have to work cattle all weekend so will be Monday before I can get back on the computer. It's expensive and a pain in the ass to be truly off-grid, I'll say that much... Just curious how you do internet other than a data plan on a cell phone? Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 2:13:19 PM EDT
[#24]
I guess location is key. Can be expensive if you plan on AC in a warm climate. Getting 16hrs worth of battery is not cheep, getting a couple days worth, ouch.
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Posted: 1/22/2022 2:23:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I have X amount of surplus electricity from the sun and it's going to get funneled back to the poco (for no compensation) or sent into the ground/atmosphere or just no longer absorbed/produced by the system....maybe figuring out an additional use or storage for that runoff would be fun, productive, and possibly profitable? You mean like mining bitcoin? I'm working toward having my machine /fabrication shop 100% solar powered. It's a business, not a hobby, an actual machine shop. I've studied the Mad Max documentaries, and the people who could still manufacture metal items were valued and protected by all the warlords. There's also something about running machines for "free" all day, even during blackouts/brownouts. When all the other local shops are down for power, guess who gets to name his price. There's really not much work with a solar setup once it's running, yes it's more "work" then grid power, but I literally only stepped foot in my solar shed (houses all the batteries and inverters) for a problem once last year when an inverter tripped for some reason. Reset it and haven't touched it since. I maybe walk in there once a month just to check if anything weird's happened like animals or insects. Batteries fill each day, inverters send power into the house, day after day.  Solar Powered Crypto Mining: Making free money with sunshine! |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 2:45:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rain water....for drinking, bathing, etc.? How? Thanks We have a 20,000 gallon grain bin with a bladder. Two 1,500 sq ft buildings plus an 800 sq foot awning in between. Every inch of rain is over 2,300 gallons. 15' long 12" PVC pipe in ground for first flush. Each building has six 2" downspouts. 3" headers run down the long sides of each building. 4" header runs along the north end of buildings. 6" header run from corner of one building to cistern. Up the side and into the tank. Buildings are somewhere around 9" higher than the inlet of the cistern. Gravity does the work. 1/2 hp pump puts it in a pressure tank. After pressure tank it goes through three filters and then a UV light canister. Then it goes into the house. All domestic water has been rain since fall of 2017. Use a shallow well for all other water needs. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 2:53:26 PM EDT
[#27]
I would just get a nice airstream and some generators and solar power stations and be done with it. Put in a septic to hook into. Propane tanks and fuel can be stored easily and refilled in town. Rain water collection or haul your own water in by small tank and pump to big. This is assuming you could get an airstream to your location, there are many places where this is not possible and people are relegated to building shacks by hand out of materials they bring up little by little. A better option then is a converted off-road cargo trailer that you can get up there.
If you are looking at building a 2k sq ft house, then I assume big trucks, propane trucks, drilling rigs can get there, so there’s probably a good chance you have grid access. You have to think off-grid and go with simplicity and cost effectiveness and what’s logistic in all scenarios. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 3:10:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That husband and wife work well together and he (I'm assuming he's the one w/ the skills) has some amazing building skills. She is smokin' hot!! FW_wife is the woodworker in our relationship. I'm the gunsmith. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 3:28:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 450? How? Are you on all electric heat? Even in the middle of winter our bill is only 250 or so. I have an ARFCom starter house, so it’s only 3400sqft with a shed, and a chicken coop with lights and heated waterer. Have you changed out all of your light bulbs to LED? That makes a huge difference right off the bat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not talking about a tool shed you use for a hunting cabin, but an actual 2000sq. ft or larger house with all modern appliances, plumbing, etc. Maybe your roof is mostly/fully covered with solar panels. Maybe you have some wind turbines and well water and septic tank. Whatever the case is, I'm curious who has experience with an off-grid home? What was the up-front cost in making it off-grid when it came to the utilities? What's maintaining those systems like? Just opened a $450 electric bill which really reinforces our desire to move in the future and to have less reliance on electric and water/sewer companies.  Thanks! 450? How? Are you on all electric heat? Even in the middle of winter our bill is only 250 or so. I have an ARFCom starter house, so it’s only 3400sqft with a shed, and a chicken coop with lights and heated waterer. Have you changed out all of your light bulbs to LED? That makes a huge difference right off the bat. That’s less than half my previous homes bill. Ours ran between $1000-$1500, but it wasn’t an average place and my family size of 10 isn’t average either. House was 5,000 sq ft and 2500 sq ft heated/cooled garage. Mostly brick, 2x6 with spray foam and batt. Triple pane windows. Everything was electric. Two geothermal units, three water heaters, 1 48” refrigerator, 1 full size fridge, 1 deep freezer, 2 under counter, induction range and double wall ovens. Two washing machines and two electric dryers. I’ll just throw out a guess of over 100 lights, mostly LED. Did have way too many 8 ft fluorescents. Heat pump pool heater, 2 pool pumps, pond fountain. My car cost maybe $30-40 a month to charge so that’s a factor too. The list goes on. New place is 4700 sq ft, and conventional heat/ac, mostly gas appliances where applicable. Our bill is $2XX but we do have a gas bill now. |
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Posted: 1/23/2022 1:31:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Split Heat pump water heater (like NYLE) can cool a room and heat your water efficiently while also producing water to water plants etc from the condensate.
Chest Freezer, old school non French door fridge (freezer on top fridge on bottom) Lithium iron phosphate batteries (48V setup ideally) a la battle born. Solar panel array. That’s my plan for backup power during hurricane outages. Once I get rid of this dying water oak I plan on adding more panels and moving towards off grid. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:42:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just curious how you do internet other than a data plan on a cell phone? Thanks! Satellite internet service. For the record, we put our off-grid system together about 20 years ago. Back then, there were very few options, and everything (batteries/solar/inverters) was much more expensive than today's options. We have upgraded a few things due to equipment failures over the years. I would say the biggest improvement in off-grid life these days is the better batteries offered now, although they are pricey. If one had the option, I would recommend at least grid-tied over totally off-grid. It is still very expensive and a pain in the ass, with any equipment failure being often very expensive and hard to diagnose/fix, during which time you well may be out of power, depending on how your backup generator is wired in. Early on, we had that problem...thought we had a bypass for the generator, but it was actually wired through our inverters only. Our Master inverter went down, so the generator wouldn't/couldn't send power to the house. That got corrected, but you get the point. Edit: I'm currently without my wind turbine. It was on top of an 85' freestanding monopole (hinged at the base to be able to take down for maintenance), rated to 150 mph winds if I remember correctly. A severe storm with tornadic activity ripped it off the top of the pole, and sent parts of it through the roof of my generator/battery/inverter shed. I have the pole laid down right now for repair.  
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:43:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Double tap
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:51:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would just get a nice airstream and some generators and solar power stations and be done with it. Put in a septic to hook into. Propane tanks and fuel can be stored easily and refilled in town. Rain water collection or haul your own water in by small tank and pump to big. This is assuming you could get an airstream to your location, there are many places where this is not possible and people are relegated to building shacks by hand out of materials they bring up little by little. A better option then is a converted off-road cargo trailer that you can get up there. If you are looking at building a 2k sq ft house, then I assume big trucks, propane trucks, drilling rigs can get there, so there’s probably a good chance you have grid access. You have to think off-grid and go with simplicity and cost effectiveness and what’s logistic in all scenarios. Big trucks and drilling rigs can get to a LOT of remote places where there isn't any more than a two-track, as long as it's not too wet. No improved roads are required, but even so, road access doesn't necessarily correlate with power grid access in a lot of areas. It's based more on population density (lack of) and how many people could be served (how much money the company can make-or lose) by bringing power to an area. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:55:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Satellite internet service. For the record, we put our off-grid system together about 20 years ago. Back then, there were very few options, and everything (batteries/solar/inverters) was much more expensive than today's options. We have upgraded a few things due to equipment failures over the years. I would say the biggest improvement in off-grid life these days is the better batteries offered now, although they are pricey. If one had the option, I would recommend at least grid-tied over totally off-grid. It is still very expensive and a pain in the ass, with any equipment failure being often very expensive and hard to diagnose/fix, during which time you well may be out of power, depending on how your backup generator is wired in. Early on, we had that problem...thought we had a bypass for the generator, but it was actually wired through our inverters only. Our Master inverter went down, so the generator wouldn't/couldn't send power to the house. That got corrected, but you get the point. Edit: I'm currently without my wind turbine. It was on top of an 85' freestanding monopole (hinged at the base to be able to take down for maintenance), rated to 150 mph winds if I remember correctly. A severe storm with tornadic activity ripped it off the top of the pole, and sent parts of it through the roof of my generator/battery/inverter shed. I have the pole laid down right now for repair. Greatly appreciate the info!! Didn't consider the challenges of diagnostics as well as repairs. Also, does homeowners cover either of those? Would suck to be without electricity if relying on it for something vital.....for a month or two (allowing for ordering or parts, work, etc.). I'll never be without a wood stove in the future and at least two cords of seasoned wood. So that takes care of the life/death aspect of things. But if relying on a generator as a backup to water and that goes out....not sure it's a standard to have a hand-pump to get water as a last resort from a well. I would NEED redundancy in an off-grid system though. Would never just slap up some solar panels and a battery bank and call it good to go. Even now in suburbia I have 5 different heat systems (ductless, stove, radiant, propane, fireplace). |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:58:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My home is 100% off grid. Drilled well. Septic. Solar. LiFePO batteries. Starlink internet. Wood heat + propane heat. Insulation and air sealing are extremely important or your HVAC load will be stupid. My near term future plan is to increase solar size and switch to electric ground source heating/cooling. Plan on: ~$15k for batteries. ~$3k for inverters and battery management ~$5k for solar panels I don't like panels on the roof. I built my own ground mounts and can clean snow off them easily without getting on a ladder. @SpacemanSpiff Any chance you have some photos of your solar panel setup? |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 11:13:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need a real “come to Jesus” moment concerning your energy usage before seriously considering DIY power. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 11:21:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Greatly appreciate the info!! Didn't consider the challenges of diagnostics as well as repairs. Also, does homeowners cover either of those? Would suck to be without electricity if relying on it for something vital.....for a month or two (allowing for ordering or parts, work, etc.). I'll never be without a wood stove in the future and at least two cords of seasoned wood. So that takes care of the life/death aspect of things. But if relying on a generator as a backup to water and that goes out....not sure it's a standard to have a hand-pump to get water as a last resort from a well. I would NEED redundancy in an off-grid system though. Would never just slap up some solar panels and a battery bank and call it good to go. Even now in suburbia I have 5 different heat systems (ductless, stove, radiant, propane, fireplace). Homeowner's will cover the catastrophic damages, but not the routine/wear items. And, one might have to get a bit "creative" in the billing to get them to cover diagnostics and such...
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Posted: 1/24/2022 12:25:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @SpacemanSpiff Any chance you have some photos of your solar panel setup? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My home is 100% off grid. Drilled well. Septic. Solar. LiFePO batteries. Starlink internet. Wood heat + propane heat. Insulation and air sealing are extremely important or your HVAC load will be stupid. My near term future plan is to increase solar size and switch to electric ground source heating/cooling. Plan on: ~$15k for batteries. ~$3k for inverters and battery management ~$5k for solar panels I don't like panels on the roof. I built my own ground mounts and can clean snow off them easily without getting on a ladder. @SpacemanSpiff Any chance you have some photos of your solar panel setup? I do but I don't have a way to host photos at the moment. I'm on the side of a mountain made of rocks and digging is difficult and expensive so I built a series of gravity frames made of ground contact lumber and each frame holds two 330 watt panels which are roughly 40 lbs each. ~2.5 Kw total installed right now but I'll double that soon. The frames are arrayed down the mountain so the panels face roughly south and are at a 50 degree incline so they shed snow pretty well on their own but sometimes need manual removal which is easy since they are at most about 8 feet off the ground. I didn't use any racking or anything to mount the panels to the frames, just some cheap aluminum brackets. I tried to keep it stupid simple and low cost and I definitely hit those goals. Next year I plan to build a shed with a roof that goes down to within 2 feet of ground level and I'll move the panels to that using actual racking and I'll move all my batteries and power conversion gear into it. I have some other panels on the roof that the PO put on the house but they are almost 30 feet off the ground so when they get covered in snow... well they just don't work and there isn't much you can do about it. I'll be getting rid of those soon. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 12:39:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My home is 100% off grid. Drilled well. Septic. Solar. LiFePO batteries. Starlink internet. Wood heat + propane heat. Insulation and air sealing are extremely important or your HVAC load will be stupid. My near term future plan is to increase solar size and switch to electric ground source heating/cooling. Plan on: ~$15k for batteries. ~$3k for inverters and battery management ~$5k for solar panels I don't like panels on the roof. I built my own ground mounts and can clean snow off them easily without getting on a ladder. The only thing I would add is solar thermal panels. We pre-heat our water prior to asking our propane water heating to bring it upto 110F. In the winter, our pre-heat tank stays at ~90F. During the summer we see temperatures in the 110 - 120 F. We use radiant floor heat along with wood. The radiant floor heat is setup to 80F. We use 38 seer mini-splits for cooling power directly by solar. With all that we are still not off-grid due to the power company stating that we cannot disconnect from the grid. Our farm used to purchase power from a COOP prior to us purchasing it. They state you have to stay connect to the grid and pay a $30 per month standby fee and they do not pay for any power you send to the grid. The weakest of the system we see are batteries. We are running an AC coupled system to store that power instead of sending it to the power company. Not a fan of lead acetate batteries, the LiFePO4 batteries seem much better, but the costs are really bad. We still need more battery capacity and given "COVID supply issues" we will not be purchasing any more batteries until costs are reduced. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 12:54:41 PM EDT
[#40]
The fact that alternate energies are subsidized is a clue that they aren't economically feasible.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 1:38:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that alternate energies are subsidized is a clue that they aren't economically feasible. Why would you not take advantage of free money from the Feds and some states? |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 2:06:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing I would add is solar thermal panels. We pre-heat our water prior to asking our propane water heating to bring it upto 110F. In the winter, our pre-heat tank stays at ~90F. During the summer we see temperatures in the 110 - 120 F. We use radiant floor heat along with wood. The radiant floor heat is setup to 80F. We use 38 seer mini-splits for cooling power directly by solar. With all that we are still not off-grid due to the power company stating that we cannot disconnect from the grid. Our farm used to purchase power from a COOP prior to us purchasing it. They state you have to stay connect to the grid and pay a $30 per month standby fee and they do not pay for any power you send to the grid. The weakest of the system we see are batteries. We are running an AC coupled system to store that power instead of sending it to the power company. Not a fan of lead acetate batteries, the LiFePO4 batteries seem much better, but the costs are really bad. We still need more battery capacity and given "COVID supply issues" we will not be purchasing any more batteries until costs are reduced. What happens if you don't pay the $30 fee? Cut you off for non-payment? |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 2:19:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Not talking about a tool shed you use for a hunting cabin, but an actual 2000sq. ft or larger house with all modern appliances, plumbing, etc. Maybe your roof is mostly/fully covered with solar panels. Maybe you have some wind turbines and well water and septic tank. Whatever the case is, I'm curious who has experience with an off-grid home? What was the up-front cost in making it off-grid when it came to the utilities? What's maintaining those systems like? Just opened a $450 electric bill which really reinforces our desire to move in the future and to have less reliance on electric and water/sewer companies. Thanks! Got a $427 gas bill last month. Heating. Wife liked it warm so 72° it is. CA. I have a neighbor who contributed major funds to a research building in the Eastern Sierra. Part of the heating and cooling of the building is a type of passive geothermal where they dig down to a stable temp area and use it to do the heavy lifting when temps are °0 F or slightly lower and 80° and higher. Similar idea to building a home underground. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 9:16:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing I would add is solar thermal panels. We pre-heat our water prior to asking our propane water heating to bring it upto 110F. In the winter, our pre-heat tank stays at ~90F. During the summer we see temperatures in the 110 - 120 F. We use radiant floor heat along with wood. The radiant floor heat is setup to 80F. We use 38 seer mini-splits for cooling power directly by solar. With all that we are still not off-grid due to the power company stating that we cannot disconnect from the grid. Our farm used to purchase power from a COOP prior to us purchasing it. They state you have to stay connect to the grid and pay a $30 per month standby fee and they do not pay for any power you send to the grid. The weakest of the system we see are batteries. We are running an AC coupled system to store that power instead of sending it to the power company. Not a fan of lead acetate batteries, the LiFePO4 batteries seem much better, but the costs are really bad. We still need more battery capacity and given "COVID supply issues" we will not be purchasing any more batteries until costs are reduced. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My home is 100% off grid. Drilled well. Septic. Solar. LiFePO batteries. Starlink internet. Wood heat + propane heat. Insulation and air sealing are extremely important or your HVAC load will be stupid. My near term future plan is to increase solar size and switch to electric ground source heating/cooling. Plan on: ~$15k for batteries. ~$3k for inverters and battery management ~$5k for solar panels I don't like panels on the roof. I built my own ground mounts and can clean snow off them easily without getting on a ladder. The only thing I would add is solar thermal panels. We pre-heat our water prior to asking our propane water heating to bring it upto 110F. In the winter, our pre-heat tank stays at ~90F. During the summer we see temperatures in the 110 - 120 F. We use radiant floor heat along with wood. The radiant floor heat is setup to 80F. We use 38 seer mini-splits for cooling power directly by solar. With all that we are still not off-grid due to the power company stating that we cannot disconnect from the grid. Our farm used to purchase power from a COOP prior to us purchasing it. They state you have to stay connect to the grid and pay a $30 per month standby fee and they do not pay for any power you send to the grid. The weakest of the system we see are batteries. We are running an AC coupled system to store that power instead of sending it to the power company. Not a fan of lead acetate batteries, the LiFePO4 batteries seem much better, but the costs are really bad. We still need more battery capacity and given "COVID supply issues" we will not be purchasing any more batteries until costs are reduced. @Ohio27 What type of solar thermal collectors are you using? |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:13:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What happens if you don't pay the $30 fee? Cut you off for non-payment? The power company would place a lien against my farm. Non-payment after six months, they would auction off my farm to get their money. I would also note that most power companies have the power of Eminent domain as the generation of power is a public service. Non-payment of fees to support the distribution of power to the public can get you property seized as well. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:15:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Ohio27 What type of solar thermal collectors are you using? I'm using solar vacuum tube collectors. You can also use copper fin collectors. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 11:58:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your $450 electric bill is getting your knickers in a twist, just wait ‘till you see what it costs to make and store that power on your own. Modern electrical grid power is an amazing bargain. You need a real “come to Jesus” moment concerning your energy usage before seriously considering DIY power. This.... We started getting wild abnormal electric bills. It wound up the mini fridge in my office was going bad. The bill went down $80. Have you changed all your lights including outdoor floods to LED? Put anything on a dusk to dawn on a realistic timer Figure out wtf is burning that much power! We have a horse barn plus heated water trough. shop that we use welders, grinders etc regularly, hay barn and a 3 bed 3 bath house. Plus an indoor year round garden we grow herbs and greens all winter and start seeds for spring planting. Our bill is like $165-180 and the dishwasher and laundry run daily! |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 11:59:31 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The power company would place a lien against my farm. Non-payment after six months, they would auction off my farm to get their money. I would also note that most power companies have the power of Eminent domain as the generation of power is a public service. Non-payment of fees to support the distribution of power to the public can get you property seized as well. Seriously?? How is that legal to force the sale of a property to pay a few hundred in debt? I also thought only government had the power of eminent domain. That's not making sense to me. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 12:02:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The electric heat and price increases. I did run the wood stove when it got cold last weekend. That heats the entire home and we used it as our only heat for the first 10 years or so. But it was back breaking and frequently had to worry about seasoned wood. Had a moisture meter in all the vehicles. Right now, if I really wanted to, we could go back to 100% wood. But again, was a lot of work processing and cleaning so pressing a button is preferable. Electric heat in the northeast is insane. Id be looking into something like a navian furnace/on demand hot water unit on ng or LP. Hell we buy most of our firewood and can heat this place oct-march for less than two of your electric bills
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Posted: 1/25/2022 12:03:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just thought of something! Our basement has a broken window pane in the laundry room where the hot water heater is. With the temps dropping I bet that thing has been working overtime! Gotta figure out a quick way to patch that hole until I can get the window replaced. Foam board over all those windows down there |
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