When empty, the "overload" springs don't touch the stops.

When I add the toy hauler - even with the weight distribution hitch - the truck sags in the back until the overload spring hits the stops.

Is there a product out there that attaches to either the springs or the stops which enguage the springs before the truck sags in the rear?

I've installed 5K pound air bags - made by Air Lift - on my previous tow vehicles but maybe there's a cheaper/better solution?

Who's been down this road before?

What is the tongue weight of the trailer ?   Is it loaded nose heavy ?  

Airbags are the solution, anything else is Bubba dun it half-assed.

I just installed airbags on the rear of my 2013 f150 about a year ago.  Love them. Every truck I own from here on out will have them.  Ride is normal unloaded and so much better when loaded with no sag.

Thanks for the replies!

I love the airbags too... except for the $5-600.00 price.

Seems like - just before hitching up the trailer - I could attach something that engages the overload springs after a 1/4" sag.

It's hard to believe someone hasn't already marketed something that is welded up and attached with a bolt specifically for this issue.

Airbags are great. Ride rites with the compressor and in cab controller is the way. I have them on every truck I've got.

Toss a set of f350 springs on the rear

There are some extended bumpstops that help with softening the ride loaded and help a tiny bit with the load.

Timbren and I cannot remember the others right now.

Prices are very close to bags though.

Have actually taken the time to set your hitch up correctly so it doesn’t sag the back of the truck and pushes weight to the front?  

Air bags do not add weight to the front axle.

Good question. I believe I’m on top of it, but let’s lay it out there and see…

This new tow vehicle needs the hitch to be reconfigured to raise the ball height.  I’m going to be taking it apart, removing the rust, and installing a new ball.

I’m aware of the air bags NOT adding weight to the front of the T-Vehicle.

I THINK I’ve cranked the torsion arms pretty damn hard, but should I raise the tongue even higher with the ball latched in place?

It’s always been my understanding that you shouldn’t take too much weight off the T-Vehicle’s rear axle to prevent sway and improve traction.

What do you guys think?

Just based on this - spend some more time setting up your hitch before you go modifying the truck trying to "improve" how it's sitting.  The really responsible advice for you is after you get your hitch height set correctly, actually weigh your setup and figure out if you have everything set correctly.  

There's people that know a lot more than me, but there's one of these places not too far from me. I'm sure there are a bunch of other options too:
https://catscale.com/

It's worth taking the time to do it right.

this.  Do weight checking.  Do not go past the specs of your vehicle.

I have timbrens, probably don't even need them, but I've also done weight checking and know that when I have all 5 people in the truck and the Rv hooked up and loaded, we are 100 pounds over.  

probably not a big deal, and the kids are all grown and don't really come anymore anyway.

https://timbren.com/p-35851-timbren-ses.html

Air bags or larger capacity springs. The overload springs are working as designed. Timbrens ride like crap. Have you weighted the whole trailer on a scale ? not taking about what the manufacturer says. Weight it. I have never seen a trailer that is underweight.

Not just the trailer weight.  Get your individual axle weights too, and best case is to get those with the trailer hitched and unhitched to see where you're putting weight.

Sorry Gang.  I guess I should have mentioned the following from the start.

I've been towing stuff all over this country for 30+ years.  I have my CDL.  Have towing and recovery experience.  Have heavy load towing experience over mountainous terrain in heavy snow conditions.
I only have 7 years' experience with these Weight distribution systems.  My first two T-Vehicles had the Air-Bags ready to go, so that was an easy fix to level out the rig.

I know for a fact I'm within my tow vehicle's limits with this rig, as I've weighed it on the scales - along with every T-Vehicle I've ever owned.  And as an added bonus, I've used this information to calculate the EXACT amount of air pressure needed for each tire on each axle.  If you'd like me to put that formula and explanation together, I'll be happy to do that for you guys.

I recognize the over-load springs are working as intended.

I also realize the Air-bags under the rear axle don't put any additional weight on the front end of the tow vehicle.

I simply do not like the T-Vehicle's rear end dropping to the overload springs.  I do not like the way it looks and I don't like how the lights will be pointing upward.

I've found adding the Air-Bags to be an easy fix, but recognize there may be something out there more cost-effective.

Should I REALLY crank on the tension bars to level the truck?  Would it decrease traction enough to make any real difference?

Been happy with airbags on a ‘16 F250 CCSB Fx4 PSD. No modifications other than the bags.

Towing a 5th wheel, all weights are in spec. The truck is just nearly perfectly level from the factory unloaded, adding any weight to it points it nose up.

FWIW, my buddy's trailer below (+/-1,500lb tounge weight) will squat my truck to where the overloads are barely touching.  And the truck has a 6,281lb payload rating.

Still completely level, though.

Attached File


Unladen:

Attached File

Damn that payload rating!!!!

Attached File

What are your axle weights and tongue weight? We only have part of what we need to give you the answer. Which is buy an F-450. Also how close are you to exceeding the limits of the tires ?

That is the exact purpose of the bars. And if you read any wdh manual you will see that’s exactly what your supposed to do.

Never mind, I was mistaken. 2011 and older F250 and F350 had the same springs.

I never had a manual for this WDH, but I shoulda looked it all up on-line.

Thank you for this post, my Man!  You just saved me a bit of cash.

This evening, I loaded the RV up and seriously cranked on the bars.

When I started pulling out of the storage lot, I spun a tire in the gravel.  That has never happened before, so the weight was indeed distributed away from the rear wheels - AS DESIGNED.

If I'm ever running down the road in wetter conditions, I'll not torx the bars down so much.  It was only one extra link in the chain anyway.

Problem solved.

Thanks for the education and conversation everyone.  

Just for the hell of it, here's the air pressure to weight carried for each tire:

Correct tire pressure for even tire wear.

Located on each tire is a maximum weight rating at maximum air pressure.
My current tires are 3305lbs max. weight with an 80lbs psi max air pressure.

Divide the max. air pressure by the max. weight and you will come up with an 0.0XXXX number.
Again, with my current tires the calculation would come to 0.02420575.
This is the air pressure per pound the tire is rated for.

Multiply the 0.02420575 by the weight each tire is being asked to carry.
This is where you guys were talking about obtaining the weights of each axle while on the truck scales.

Front axle has two tires so if the front axle weighs 4,000lbs, you divide that by two to equal 2,000lbs per tire.
2,000 x 0.02420575 = 48.4114977

I round up to 50lbs and call it good.

Rear axle COULD have 4 tires if it’s a dually, so you divide the rear axle weight by 4, then multiply by the 0.02420575.

So if you have a rear axle weight of 6,500lbs, divide that by 4 to come up with 1,625lbs.
1,625lbs x 0.02420575 = 39.3343438.

Again, I’d round that up to 40lbs and call it good.

If you run the air pressure less than these figures for any length of time, you’re going to prematurely wear the outer tread on the tire – to say nothing of introducing excessive heat…

If you run the air pressure higher than these figures for any length of time, you’re going to prematurely wear the center tread on the tire.


Hope that makes sense and helps someone.

I ran Airbags on a K2500 for a decade with no issues.
Replaced with a F450.

I used to swap in F350 leaf packs and rear shocks.
I've done the helper air bags too.

Going the F350 route = stiff ride unloaded.

That's always been an issue with F250s that actually do work.

When you get into F350 and F450 duallys that do truck things/tow and haul heavy? Then its front tire wear that becomes an issue.
That's when I take a come along to the hitch frame at one point, alignment rack at the opposite point, and pull the ass end down and align it with it being squatted.

Do the helper bags. You can at least deflate them when you don't need them, and won't get beat half to death on bad roads

What?
In a 3/4 ton you're running half ton air pressures?

No...
Ford calculates air pressure for tires, tires they don't manufacture, for ride quality unladen.
Dunlop/Fierce, Cooper, Goodyear, continental (garbage oem tires), etc all know better than ford.

Tire wear is not going to be excessive in the center if you run the rears and fronts to 80psi.
Sidewalls shit the bed when under inflated. If you've ever seen a tire that has had miles put on it when low due to a nail for example, it will always appear to be "soft" low on air.
When the time comes to change tires, that soft tire, will be full of rubber debris sometimes that debris goes from a fine black powder to a ball. It will look like little black balls. Trucks that actually do truck things? That's when Sidewalls let go/blow out. Sometimes can even have belts snap and you get what looks like a tumor growing on the sidewall

I had customers that followed that door sticker as though it were the bible, and worked at shit holes that followed whatever fomoco said.
They were the ones who had everything from death wobble to prematurely worn tires. Especially front tires if snowplow.

Ford, the same shit heads that said deflate tires on high sprung explorers and caused grief for firestone...
Nah. They don't know best. Tire manufacturers know best.

Load range E tires like 80psi, empty or loaded down. These aren't 2 ply tires... you need to remember Sidewalls do the most work, if there's less pressure, there will be less support. Think of Sidewalls as your spine. Without it, you'll flop over and be paralyzed.
Increase the pressure, you'll get a stronger spine. Will the tread balloon? In a car tire sure, absolutely. No argument from me on that.
These are trucks... not cars...


Now 40psi each rear dually tire while towing/hauling?
Take a look at the Sidewalls.
They will look as though you curbed them. When ford started cranking out the alternative to the Lincoln Town car-Boomers loved lariat/king ranch/cabelas/harley/etc tier one leathered up crew cabs. SRW or DRW. Wide or narrow frame irrelevant.
When they'd get to the stage of boomerhood where a JcWhitney moon visor, beginner bars, diamond plate step rails that'd contribute to rockers rotting, umpteen million running lights with cob job scotch locks popping fuses and parasitic draws after the first winter driving session...

They'd drop tire pressures because Muh truck rides like a lumber wagon!
They're responsible for low line pressures and premature clutch wear in all the automatics too. For a generation that likes to call anyone and everyone snowflake. God forbid they felt an up shift and especially God forbid a truck rode like a truck... Boomers ruined trucks. Combine EPA fuckery and Cafe fuckery... this is why we can't have nice things, and nice things that last... everybody wants a truck to hand down to their son/grandson, until it rides like a truck and shifts like truck/bracket car... then they turn into Cardigan sweater pinky out fags from Car & Driver and have the worst case of buyers remorse ever. If ever there was a demographic that should be banned from owning/buying trucks-boomers.
From seized unison rings/vanes in turbos, to being tightwads that neglected maintenance killing injectors high pressure fuel pumps, and other self induced performance issues... fuck buying a truck. They should have been buying Devilles, TownCars, escalades, Yukon denalis, Expeditions, anything but a crew cab leather express... guys that actually bought trucks for truck things didn't have the frequent injector and turbo failures and the frequent performance issues the ignorant and arrogant tightwads did...because their truck was another tool in their box, and they would properly maintain that tool so they could remain busy/productive, making money.

Decreased tire pressure per 4 eyed fat fuck flying the desk up front suggestion resulted in a plush ride, but when you drive in the shit hole supreme that is ny, where your tax dollars at the pump, registration fees, and property valuez aren't going to Muh Roadz!... you have pot holes...pot holes big enough to swallow a Buick never mind a camry/civic...
Care to guess what happened to those fancy Alcoas and factory 20s with under inflated tires? Even the steelies did it too on the shit box work trucks.
From legitimate bent to shit to cracks. You have an aluminum wheel spinning how fast at highway speed? Then clobber a pot hole...
Machinists would cringe if running a lathe and someone suggested smacking a piece of round stock with a hammer as its turning 2k+rpm.
Same thing happens.
Under inflated tires on a dually resulted in a pile of black dust inside the rear tires, the black balls, blow outs, and Sidewalls contacting and rubbing out back.

Some will argue higher tire pressure won't just cause the center to wear prematurely, but insist the tires will cup/scallop/chop/feather.
No, that's different issues.

In a superduty? Bagged out ball joints and under inflated tires combined with bad roads.
Premature wear on outer edges? Under inflation but 9 times out of 10 if only the inner or if only the outer edge?
Toe.
This is why I used a come along and pulled the ass end down on trucks that did truck things daily.
The geometry of the suspension changes drastically when loaded down and you'll see it in how the front tires wear.

Now getting into lifts/leveling kits, that's when you really see accelerated wear as most don't bother to do maths and spend a couple hours to pound the right slugs in for camber for those solid front axle trucks.
Everything from wears like a cheese wedge, to death wobble, all because returning to factory specs with wider scrub radius due to wheels/tires and altered suspension geometry.

God tier half ton silverado 99-07 classic torsion bar front ends used to cup chopped feather fronts due to bagged out shock mount bushings.
They'd mimic bad ball joints.

If suspension and alignment are good, tire wear won't occur unless continental.
Those tires were fucking garbage and ford should be ashamed to have thrown those things on F250s-550s.
They would be bald by 30k with being rotated every 3 or 6k, and owners being religious about tire pressure. Not bald in just the center, all the way around.
And they didn't grip worth a shit either. One snow storm or good rain storm, hydroplane and spin at take off.

The best tires they used were Michelins. Be they 17s or 20s. Goodyear used to have a good one that gripped and would get to 40-45k if you rotated them religiously. Somewhere around 2010 ish they changed either the rubber compound, or the construction of the carcass and they'd have belt shift and one hell of a vibration followed by the Sidewalls growing tumors like the shit Pirellis on F150s did.

The best tires ever made for a truck are no longer made

Cooper ATRs.
Those were badass tires. 60k-80k miles with burnouts too, on gasser/diesel 3/4 and1 tons. And they'd grip.

The absolute worst dog shit tires be they the 17s for XL shit box work trucks all the way to the factory 20s and especially 19.5s-Continentals.

When it comes to superduties...I know those trucks like the back of my hand.
Just don't ask me to R&R a dashboard for a blend door or evaporator.

Run the tires to 80psi. Don't do what the CSX guys did-follow the door jamb sticker.
You'll have blow outs and bagged out sidewalls.
These aren't Cadillacs. They're trucks. Meant to do truck things. Drop tire pressure in search of a better ride quality...You'll pay dearly down the road.
Super duties doing truck things-80 psi all the way around = best/most ideal tire pressure in my experience and honest opinion.

These days finding good tires that last and hold up to doing truck things, is like finding a platinum needle in pile of needles.
There was a time when tires lasted and were affordable...those days are long gone sadly.
Despite everything going on in the world as a teenager and into my early 20s, tires were expendable and it didn't break the bank to do smoke shows and push them to their limitations in corners and while towing/hauling.
Nowadays, Goodyear lives up to their name-their shit is good for a year.
Everything else. Hit or miss.

No they didnt. There were different part numbers for leaf packs U bolts and the blocks in HvBom.
There used to be anyway... I don't do the dealer thing anymore

There's a place here in town that will add a leaf.  Bring them the leaf springs and pick them up all ready to go.

I added a leaf to a half-ton suburban back in '97.  I'd bought it with a sagging ass, but everything else was solid.

Glad you got that sorted!  That's why I was recommending axle weights hitched and unhitched - to make sure you were cranking those up enough to move enough weight forward.  Weight distribution hitches are a whole different thing compared to a hitch that sits over/between axles.  

Weird.  I thought for sure I mentioned in my post the air pressure depended upon the weight each tire is being asked to carry.
Not only that, but I'm pretty sure I mentioned using the weight and air pressure rating on the actual tire - not the 'door jamb sticker' in order to determine proper inflation so as to keep the entire tread on the road.

This means.... if the weight is causing the dually's tires to rub, then there isn't enough air pressure for the weight they're being asked to carry.

Sure, you could just fill the tire to the max, but again.  If the tires aren't being asked to carry their max weight rating, then - over time - you'll burn out the center of the tire prematurely.