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Posted: 12/1/2018 8:52:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Might wanna post up some specs, mainly , what engine, gas or diesel
Even both need air, fuel & spark. Check the basics, also regular trucks of that era have fusable links, this might have one that is poppped |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:03:35 PM EDT
[#2]
diesel 8v92 Detroit I think * on the 8, could be a 6. 15 speed.
I am new at diesels, but it am assuming this is basically ignition, relay maybe, starter, and that's about it in that loop? With the breaker somewhere in the chain? Volt meter is being screw, but the needle is sits at like 12 removed from vehicle, pegs when key is on. Batteries read about 12, but before I tried to jump it starter was barely turning like low voltage. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:34:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
diesel 8v92 Detroit I think * on the 8, could be a 6. 15 speed. I am new at diesels, but it am assuming this is basically ignition, relay maybe, starter, and that's about it in that loop? With the breaker somewhere in the chain? Volt meter is being screw, but the needle is sits at like 12 removed from vehicle, pegs when key is on. Batteries read about 12, but before I tried to jump it starter was barely turning like low voltage. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:53:27 PM EDT
[#4]
appears to have a mechanical fuel pump I think. Does not appear to have glow plugs either. Ran it a couple weeks ago
could have a 24v starter, haven't climbed under it in the snow to actualy see the starter yet. at this point the breakers blowing and starter not turning at all. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:11:47 PM EDT
[#5]
If it doesn't have glow plugs does it use ether to start? I've only read about diesels that old, but I've heard of disels that had a built in ether system. Some had a thing that held the aerosol can and others, I think, had a tank you put about a quart of ether in and had a sort of plunger in the cab you'd pump.
Did the seller tell you anything about it? Can you call the seller? Older diesel engines often have different types of pre heat systems. I had one that you had to hold the button for 10~ seconds before starting it, that wasn't glow plugs either, it was a thing that burned diesel in the in intake manifold to pre heat it. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:14:44 PM EDT
[#6]
An 8V92 Detroit will have a 24 volt starter. Only to things electrical on the engine is glow plugs and fuel shut off on the injection pump. The 8V92 were stroke diesels. The blower is used to scavenge the cylinders.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:02:12 AM EDT
[#7]
ah so there is something that converts the to 24 v then?
 Attached Fileblown breaker number 5 2nd light on, not sure what that is. The one on the right is either low air or ignition on.  Attached File Attached Filebattery box as I got it. only has 2 of 4 batteries in it. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:05:39 AM EDT
[#8]
oh and fuel shutoff is a mechanical pull
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:22:11 AM EDT
[#9]
All a 2-stroke Detroit needs is air, compression, & fuel, if the airbox flap is open and it’s not out of fuel or the filters aren’t clogged it’ll start. There are no glow plugs, there may or may not be an ether system, and there’s no injector pump - a 3rd cam lobe on each cylinder actuates a plunger that injects the fuel. Anyway, if the breaker pops when you turn the key to “run” it’s likely a dead short in the start wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid, the solenoid, or the starter itself. Much less likely is the engine is locked up, but it does happen.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:17:06 AM EDT
[#10]
thanks, that's helpful.
Engines not locked up, was turning sluggishly with starter before I hooked it up to jump. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:35:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All a 2-stroke Detroit needs is air, compression, & fuel, if the airbox flap is open and it’s not out of fuel or the filters aren’t clogged it’ll start. There are no glow plugs, there may or may not be an ether system, and there’s no injector pump - a 3rd cam lobe on each cylinder actuates a plunger that injects the fuel. Anyway, if the breaker pops when you turn the key to “run” it’s likely a dead short in the start wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid, the solenoid, or the starter itself. Much less likely is the engine is locked up, but it does happen. ETA, was it in fact turning over at first? Diesels are hard to start in the cold, you probably need all 4 batteries that it was designed for. In the meantime you can get a remote starter switch and bypass the key switch and see what happens. Since it may have a short, I'd disconnect the solenode switch wire all together when you do it. ETA, are those extra battery cables touching anything? Could they be grounding out? I don't know for sure how your system works, but some 24v systems have a thing that makes your 2 banks of batteries 24v just when starting, so I guess it's possible that those cables get back fed voltage when your trying to start. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:23:23 AM EDT
[#12]
Well at least ME2112 knows how a diesel works. I do believe there s a series / peralell switch on them. Not 100% positive, but I think there is one by the batteries. That makes the start circuit start on 24 volts and the rest of the truck runs 12 volt. As mentioned earlier if you change the batteries, do all of them at once. One bad cell on one battery can cause electrical issues. last time I had a start problem with a 4 battery set up, I finally found one bad cell in a battery checking with a hydrometer, Think that is what they are called.
There are no glow plugs, no preheater of any kind. With all the fuel lines under the valve cover, there is no way to bleed the system. You can open the return line on the head and make sure there is no air in it. if it turns over yet won`t start, check the flap on the intake tube, if it is tripped, it can`t get enough air to start. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 3:33:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An 8V92 Detroit will have a 24 volt starter. Only to things electrical on the engine is glow plugs and fuel shut off on the injection pump. The 8V92 were stroke diesels. The blower is used to scavenge the cylinders. |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 1:47:11 AM EDT
[#14]
so I guess, unhook the starter leads, and see if that fixes the breaker issue and then I know its a start issue.. If not, figure out if its 12 or 24 and then see what I can bypass.
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Posted: 12/5/2018 2:53:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Ok it got 12 v at the solenoid. I auume the green wire is what should be hot when the starter button is pressed? A starter test button applying 12 to that does nothing, some I probably need to pull the starter and it's probably the solenoid?
 Attached File@deluce @Hitachifixer |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 3:05:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Before yanking parts, make sure you dont need 24 v at starter
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Posted: 12/5/2018 3:08:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Before yanking parts, make sure you dont need 24 v at starter |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 3:18:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Yea, i see the batteries you posted are wired parallel (12v)
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Posted: 12/5/2018 3:48:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok it got 12 v at the solenoid. I auume the green wire is what should be hot when the starter button is pressed? A starter test button applying 12 to that does nothing, some I probably need to pull the starter and it's probably the solenoid?https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/28822/15440360230840_jpg-761655.JPG @deluce @Hitachifixer |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 4:25:54 PM EDT
[#20]
thanks, the batteries are reading low, about 12.2 ish but I should still get at least a click out of the starter right? I am getting nothing. When hitting the dash starter I get a click from something on the right side of the truck, I think is compressor related, but nada from the starter.
Need to round up a long ass extension and a 12 pt 3/4 socket to pull the starter. Buried behind the frame rail gonna be great fun |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 7:15:03 PM EDT
[#21]
If you can get a screwdriver in there, jump across the 2 large posts on the solenoid. Just touch it quickly, you’re just checking to see if the starter does anything when you do what the solenoid does. Don’t use a jumper wire or remote start switch because a few hundred amps or so will be going through it. Congratulations, you’ve just discovered incandescence!
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Posted: 12/5/2018 10:45:08 PM EDT
[#22]
You need more cold cranking amps to start that truck. At least a 3rd and probably a 4th battery. In warm weather you can get away with 2 but not in the cold. I have worked on a few of those many years ago. That is an antique. Next time you buy an antique buy a Mack or an International. Those have better parts availability. Although you will hate International wiring
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Posted: 12/5/2018 10:50:40 PM EDT
[#23]
I would check connections on everything you have. Also inspect the terminals for corrosion where the wire meets the terminal. The good news is a Detroit coats everything with a protective layer of oil to prevent rust and corrosion.
Since you own a 2 stroke Detroit here is your joke of the day. I used to have a picture of a Pete 359 with a 12-71 and a 15 speed on my living room wall. . . . . .. I had to take the picture down it leaked oil on the couch |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 11:17:06 PM EDT
[#24]
They don’t leak much if you don’t let them idle for more than a few minutes. I used to work at an airport as a mechanic and one of the push tractors
 Attached Filehad a 3-53 in it that the ramp rats idled forever. The airport people were getting pissed about the oil spills, so I welded up a can, drilled a hole and brazed a piece of brake line to it, and installed a drain & vent at one end. The whole thing mounted to the rear wheel torsion arm bracket, with a rubber hose connecting the air box drain tube to the piece of brake line. We drained it every oil change, but after telling the guys to start it, idle maybe a minute, work the hell out of it, then shut it off, we’d be lucky to get a couple tablespoons out of it. It blew the engine maybe 5 years later and instead of rebuilding it they got rid of the best pushback on the field and replaced it with a computerized piece of shit. |
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Posted: 12/5/2018 11:35:19 PM EDT
[#25]
oh yeah half the other wiring is already stripped out of the thing, I know its ancient, bit under 600k miles.
Just gonna be a site truck for hauling gravel at a woodlot I bought that needs some road work. If I haul like 15 loads of my own gravel vs paying for delivered I come out ahead from what I paid for it. Just need to get it reliably starting, would be a pain if when I rent an excavator cant get this running. I am pretty sure I just tried to start it for too long last time and toasted part of the starter, before that it was cranking slow but got there. Now nada. Guess I am gonna need a full set of batteries anyway so better to buy them and hook up and try it before pulling the starter I suppose, |
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Posted: 12/6/2018 1:23:40 AM EDT
[#26]
You are on the right track, not enough CCA in the cooler weather. Detroit's are cold blooded and without glow plugs or grid heaters they can be a bear to start even under favorable conditions. Get a can of either and once you get it spinning faster with more amps give it a short squirt or two into the intake and I bet she comes alive. The other poster is correct, don't idle or baby it. Once you get it started slam your hand in the door and drive it flat out like you are pissed off at it.
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Posted: 12/6/2018 1:46:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Series parallel switch, close to batteries ?
Might have four old 6-volt batteries, dead cell or two... take all the battery cables off, clean tighten. Do same for the series parallel switch terminals, fully charge all the batteries, give the starter a medium-gentle wack with a 3 pound hammer, at the back, near ground stud. Report back if it fires up. If it doesn't most likely next trouble spot is starter solenoid, specifically the solenoid to field connector strap: loosen, clean up connection, and retighten. |
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Posted: 12/6/2018 5:35:27 PM EDT
[#28]
If it doesn’t have a working block heater, install the biggest one you can find. There’s a plug that goes into the water jacket, IIRC it’s on the driver side front. If you can swing some battery heaters they’ll help a lot, too. Lastly, a stick-on oil pan heater will make a big difference, especially if you’re not running synthetic.
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Posted: 12/7/2018 9:24:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are on the right track, not enough CCA in the cooler weather. Detroit's are cold blooded and without glow plugs or grid heaters they can be a bear to start even under favorable conditions. Get a can of either and once you get it spinning faster with more amps give it a short squirt or two into the intake and I bet she comes alive. The other poster is correct, don't idle or baby it. Once you get it started slam your hand in the door and drive it flat out like you are pissed off at it. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 2:16:12 PM EDT
[#30]
OP:
Large picture shows the problem. sent you IM. You can ( in warm weather ) start that 8V92 with the 2 group 31 batteries, but 12.2 volts is a bit low, around 50%, so you should fully charge the batteries, while cleaning up the starter solenoid to field connector strap. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 1:15:15 AM EDT
[#31]
 Attached Fileyou mean this? that's gonna be a bitch to get at, gonna have to pull the whole starter probably. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 9:30:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Looks like you just need socket with extention to reach it
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Posted: 12/9/2018 4:57:16 PM EDT
[#33]
got her running eventually today with 3 batteries and a beating of the starter eventually, still intermittent on weather the starter engages on a particular button push. Will require some more work when its not 15 degrees out. But accomplished the mission of getting the bed blocked up so it wont turn into too much of an icecube.
Pulled the batteries back out and will keep them in the shop for the winter. There any reason I cant have all 4 on one trickle charger. Old Fellow who owns the farm thinks it should have had an ether can attachment in the air line that was replaced at somepoint. |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 5:20:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Shoulda video’d your start up, lol
Glad ya got it goin |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 9:32:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
got her running eventually today with 3 batteries and a beating of the starter eventually, still intermittent on weather the starter engages on a particular button push. Will require some more work when its not 15 degrees out. But accomplished the mission of getting the bed blocked up so it wont turn into too much of an icecube. Pulled the batteries back out and will keep them in the shop for the winter. There any reason I cant have all 4 on one trickle charger. Old Fellow who owns the farm thinks it should have had an ether can attachment in the air line that was replaced at somepoint. 
Oh, I saw the either comment, some of the older "smarter" instalation's did have either feed lines to the cab or elsewhere but I'm almost sure they predated yours but someone could have added one. Look in the cab for something like a nickel on a hinge around the dash first, then pop the hood and chase the air intake, "this is harder on cab overs" but most take the easiest route. If you have these things trace them out and if they are hooked up you can feed your JIMMY the Crack that it desires much easier.
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Posted: 12/9/2018 9:55:27 PM EDT
[#36]
12 volt batteries.
I see where it might have once existed, hole in the firewall, but the piping on the air intake has been replaced at some point, definitely aint 40 years old. Farmer who house I was parked at couldn't find one either (retired heavy construction guy) |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 10:03:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Don't sweat it much, just get in the habit of hot batteries or as I suggested external lugs that you can hook up slave cables to. Don't sweat the grunge on the starter or solinoid, that's a protective feature of Detroits.
They are ancient technology now but give them volts and a short shot of either, and spin them fast then run them hard and fast and you'll be a fan in no time. Don't lugg or idle them under any circumstance, they are ether on or off. No in between. A true 2 cycle engine, in the power band and happy, happy or a weak, leaky grumpy bitch.
I still think my family has plank owner status at Delaney and Alfh in Bakersfield. 
I can still hear my father coming home, Jake break and all, brrrrrrrrrring, buuuuubbbbb, brinnnnnggggggg, buuuuubbbah.
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:32:18 PM EDT
[#38]
OK, it's only been about 35 years since I played with that same truck, but here goes:
If it's Alpine Green,(mint-chip green) its a Detroit Diesel, and if its a V-8 then its most likely the 8V-71 rated at 318hp. if its Turbocharged, then 350hp. The "92" series came out about 1980 and they were painted Silver. Look on the Rocker cover for a dark Blue data tag with a shit-load of numbers on it: Wipe it off, and take pictures, then KEEP THEM! it tells the Parts folks what's what on that engine. Filters & stuff are pretty generic. No Glow Plugs, used two "sock filters" for the Fuel and they'll be on the right side of the engine. Oil filters the same too: big round metal cans with a single bolt going through the center. BTW: Someone told me the other day that no one's making the old sock filters (looks like a cotton sock pulled over the outside of the filter) but you can use the conventional ones in their place. Could be 24 volts if it was Military or other Government issue, but most likely 12V. Look at the Batteries: are they Positive to Positive and Negative to negative on the cable configuration or one negative and one positive with a jumper going from the unused neg on one battery to the positive on the other? Make sure everything is turned off, disconnect the negative terminal then reconnect it and watch for a spark (indicating something is drawing power...big spark=big draw. These where pretty damned simple engines and if you could roll it over a few revolutions, it would run until all the oil leaked out....yea, you will discover that too. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:36:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it doesn't have glow plugs does it use ether to start? I've only read about diesels that old, but I've heard of disels that had a built in ether system. Some had a thing that held the aerosol can and others, I think, had a tank you put about a quart of ether in and had a sort of plunger in the cab you'd pump. Did the seller tell you anything about it? Can you call the seller? Older diesel engines often have different types of pre heat systems. I had one that you had to hold the button for 10~ seconds before starting it, that wasn't glow plugs either, it was a thing that burned diesel in the in intake manifold to pre heat it. On Diesels operated in Cold Climates, there's something called a "Zero-Start" which has a solenoid controlled Either bottle that will give a wiff (about as much as you fart) but spraying it willy-nilly is bas ju-ju. This engine isn't going to have "glow Plugs" and engines that do, require you to either manually energize them or depend on a timer controlling a magnetic switch that sends power to them. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:41:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about injection pump, glow plugs, fresh diesel, does it have water seperator for fuel, you sure its not a 24 v starting system. Some diesels need primed or youll never get it started Might have a fuel-water separator: look along the frame for it. If its been converted to spin-on filters, then one may have a drain in the bottom to let water out. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:43:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
diesel 8v92 Detroit I think * on the 8, could be a 6. 15 speed. I am new at diesels, but it am assuming this is basically ignition, relay maybe, starter, and that's about it in that loop? With the breaker somewhere in the chain? Volt meter is being screw, but the needle is sits at like 12 removed from vehicle, pegs when key is on. Batteries read about 12, but before I tried to jump it starter was barely turning like low voltage. Go to Harbor Freight and get a cheap multi-meter and a Test Light...they will be your friends. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 11:08:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well at least ME2112 knows how a diesel works. I do believe there s a series / peralell switch on them. Not 100% positive, but I think there is one by the batteries. That makes the start circuit start on 24 volts and the rest of the truck runs 12 volt. As mentioned earlier if you change the batteries, do all of them at once. One bad cell on one battery can cause electrical issues. last time I had a start problem with a 4 battery set up, I finally found one bad cell in a battery checking with a hydrometer, Think that is what they are called. There are no glow plugs, no preheater of any kind. With all the fuel lines under the valve cover, there is no way to bleed the system. You can open the return line on the head and make sure there is no air in it. if it turns over yet won`t start, check the flap on the intake tube, if it is tripped, it can`t get enough air to start. +1 You might look on the Starter for a tag: if there's still one on it, it should tell you if its a 12 or 24 volt starter (or copy down the part number and have it checked) Forgot about the series-parallel switch: may or may not have one. You'll need at least two really good batteries, four would be better, and in the picture they're parallel (12volt) |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 11:10:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would check connections on everything you have. Also inspect the terminals for corrosion where the wire meets the terminal. The good news is a Detroit coats everything with a protective layer of oil to prevent rust and corrosion. Since you own a 2 stroke Detroit here is your joke of the day. I used to have a picture of a Pete 359 with a 12-71 and a 15 speed on my living room wall. . . . . .. I had to take the picture down it leaked oil on the couch 12V71 was bad-ass in its day, still is. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 11:15:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/28822/Inked15440360230840_jpg-761655_LI_jpg-764746.JPG you mean this? that's gonna be a bitch to get at, gonna have to pull the whole starter probably. The lug going into the starter body looks like it got pretty hot....you may have to have a rebuilt starter. Make sure all the connections are tight and plenty of battery amperage: if it'll spin the engine at 500rpm continuously, it should start and run. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 10:45:06 PM EDT
[#45]
OP, don't forget the most important thing. Every time you go to drive it slam your hand in the door a few times first...
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Posted: 12/21/2018 4:28:39 PM EDT
[#46]
BAE
Big Ass Engine. |
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