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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:22:25 AM EDT
He’s working on a framing crew building large commercial property, apartments and hotels primarily.

He’s getting $19/hr and a $90/day travel bonus.

That’s pretty decent wages IMO.  He asked me for a job but I just don’t have a lot of work for him, he apologized that he’s making a lot now.

I told him not to feel bad at all for being worth more than I can pay right now, he deserves as much as he can earn.  With the crazy high wages in the trades, I’m really struggling to keep help around.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:24:13 AM EDT
[#1]
That’s union apprentice carpenter wages. He should thank the left.

The downside is he has to travel and probably stay in hotels. The upside is he has to pay union dues.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:25:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Did you ever finish your stone wall?
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:28:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Those are union wages for a non skilled helper  Did he have to join the union?
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:30:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Did you ever finish your stone wall?
View Quote

Yeah... mostly.

All of the rock is in the fence but I don’t have the privacy screens above it yet.  Actually the kid that the thread is about owes me some money for a pistol course I took him to last summer, and provided the ammo (and gun when he realized how bad his Sigma and Uncle Mike’s was), so he agreed to work it off by helping me in the yard.  He got the last of the fence together this week.

I’ll get some pics.  I’ve also finally got a guy here building a rock retaining wall around the end of my greenhouse, been waiting on that for a year and a half.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:30:44 AM EDT
[#5]
That's not surprising. Traveling crews building anything make good money. I had a buddy who made around $20/hr + per diem traveling around building grain bins. This was 2006ish and he was probably 20 years old with no real work experience.

A Mennonite crew that builds metal buildings told me they're trying to find an unskilled helper and they're paying $25/hr. This is in bumfuck, TN where wages are very low. This was about 2 weeks ago.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:31:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Target starts at $16 an hour corporate wide. Not sure I would call $19 an hour good wages.

Makes more than his friends in retail is probably more accurate.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:35:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Showing up every day and doing anything at all more than holding their cell phone all day has become a "skill".
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:35:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Those are union wages for a non skilled helper  Did he have to join the union?
View Quote

No


Quoted:
Target starts at $16 an hour corporate wide. Not sure I would call $19 an hour good wages.

Makes more than his friends in retail is probably more accurate.
View Quote

He’s not staying the night, so pocketing that $90 as well and essentially getting $28/hr.

That seems high for a green kid, but he’s smart and a good worker.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:37:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Target starts at $16 an hour corporate wide. Not sure I would call $19 an hour good wages.

Makes more than his friends in retail is probably more accurate.
View Quote

Difference is if the kid stays with it and learns he will be making 27 an hour in a 3 more years and he will be learning a trade where the target worker won't.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:39:50 AM EDT
[#10]
I've got a 17 year old working for me that's making $18/hr and I buy him lunch.

When he turns 18 next month I'm bumping him to $20/hr.

That's the new going rate for young labor now.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:41:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Those are union wages for a non skilled helper  Did he have to join the union?
View Quote


There’s a lot of overlap in areas with moderate to strong union presence. Non-union wages and benefits have to keep up or the guys will just go union when times are good like this. I’m a non-union tradesman making higher wages than a union guy because my wife carries me on her insurance and I bust my ass and get jobs done. I also get a take-home truck.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:43:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Difference is if the kid stays with it and learns he will be making 27 an hour in a 3 more years and he will be learning a trade where the target worker won't.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Target starts at $16 an hour corporate wide. Not sure I would call $19 an hour good wages.

Makes more than his friends in retail is probably more accurate.

Difference is if the kid stays with it and learns he will be making 27 an hour in a 3 more years and he will be learning a trade where the target worker won't.



And that's what a lot of people miss.  He's making good money, AND being taught a trade. An even better deal.
I have a son in law doing the apprenticeship in plumbing. Making fairly decent money, but earning skills, experience, and cred for later.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:44:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There’s a lot of overlap in areas with moderate to strong union presence. Non-union wages and benefits have to keep up or the guys will just go union when times are good like this. I’m a non-union tradesman making higher wages than a union guy because my wife carries me on her insurance and I bust my ass and get jobs done. I also get a take-home truck.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Those are union wages for a non skilled helper  Did he have to join the union?


There’s a lot of overlap in areas with moderate to strong union presence. Non-union wages and benefits have to keep up or the guys will just go union when times are good like this. I’m a non-union tradesman making higher wages than a union guy because my wife carries me on her insurance and I bust my ass and get jobs done. I also get a take-home truck.

For us small contractors, competing with union wages are no issue. The benefit package is the killer.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:45:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

No



He’s not staying the night, so pocketing that $90 as well and essentially getting $28/hr.

That seems high for a green kid, but he’s smart and a good worker.
View Quote



If he's going to get into commercial construction where there's lot's of traveling he would be better off being in the carpenters union .

Yeah yeah we hate unions but that's just a fact if the kid wants to stay in the trade.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:46:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
He’s working on a framing crew building large commercial property, apartments and hotels primarily.

He’s getting $19/hr and a $90/day travel bonus.

That’s pretty decent wages IMO.  He asked me for a job but I just don’t have a lot of work for him, he apologized that he’s making a lot now.

I told him not to feel bad at all for being worth more than I can pay right now, he deserves as much as he can earn.  With the crazy high wages in the trades, I’m really struggling to keep help around.
View Quote


It isn’t good wages. Maybe for being 18 and living at home but wherever houses are being built paying $90/day the rent is an extra $90 and living in your car sucks.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:47:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've got a 17 year old working for me that's making $18/hr and I buy him lunch.

When he turns 18 next month I'm bumping him to $20/hr.

That's the new going rate for young labor now.
View Quote

I guess he’s right in there then.

I have a company constantly asking me to do some engineering work for them that is easy repetitive stuff that doesn’t require any math, but does take a lot of training and experience.  They want to pay about $50/hr for it, and I generally have to set my rates as 2.5 times the labor rates of the people working on it.

Yeah, I’m not trying very hard to get some $55/hr contract work, I can’t even compete with a brand new framer out of high school.

Professional wages are lagging ime.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:47:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Build Back Better.

Then complain everything costs 40% more.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:48:12 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It isn’t good wages. Maybe for being 18 and living at home but wherever houses are being built paying $90/day the rent is an extra $90 and living in your car sucks.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
He’s working on a framing crew building large commercial property, apartments and hotels primarily.

He’s getting $19/hr and a $90/day travel bonus.

That’s pretty decent wages IMO.  He asked me for a job but I just don’t have a lot of work for him, he apologized that he’s making a lot now.

I told him not to feel bad at all for being worth more than I can pay right now, he deserves as much as he can earn.  With the crazy high wages in the trades, I’m really struggling to keep help around.


It isn’t good wages. Maybe for being 18 and living at home but wherever houses are being built paying $90/day the rent is an extra $90 and living in your car sucks.


You just said it, it's a good wage for a young green guy.

In 3 years if he's still making the same wage, he's likely being under paid.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:50:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Our government and the Federal Reserve are debasing our currency. They have been for decades but have recently accelerated their actions.

The dollar values you are accustomed to mean nothing now and will mean even less as we move forward. Everyone is getting a monthly pay cut and your savings is being stolen (devalued).

https://mises.org/library/currency-debasement-and-social-collapse

A good book to explain what happens if they lose control of their scheme

https://mises.org/library/when-money-dies


Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:51:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I guess he’s right in there then.

I have a company constantly asking me to do some engineering work for them that is easy repetitive stuff that doesn’t require any math, but does take a lot of training and experience.  They want to pay about $50/hr for it, and I generally have to set my rates as 2.5 times the labor rates of the people working on it.

Yeah, I’m not trying very hard to get some $55/hr contract work, I can’t even compete with a brand new framer out of high school.

Professional wages are lagging ime.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've got a 17 year old working for me that's making $18/hr and I buy him lunch.

When he turns 18 next month I'm bumping him to $20/hr.

That's the new going rate for young labor now.

I guess he’s right in there then.

I have a company constantly asking me to do some engineering work for them that is easy repetitive stuff that doesn’t require any math, but does take a lot of training and experience.  They want to pay about $50/hr for it, and I generally have to set my rates as 2.5 times the labor rates of the people working on it.

Yeah, I’m not trying very hard to get some $55/hr contract work, I can’t even compete with a brand new framer out of high school.

Professional wages are lagging ime.


I think my break even number is about 35% higher than the base wage.

I don't do T and M, but when estimating I use $40/hr on everyone. After this project I'm going to add an invisible extra man though, to cover my after hours time.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:51:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There’s a lot of overlap in areas with moderate to strong union presence. Non-union wages and benefits have to keep up or the guys will just go union when times are good like this. I’m a non-union tradesman making higher wages than a union guy because my wife carries me on her insurance and I bust my ass and get jobs done. I also get a take-home truck.
View Quote



I'm talking about if the kid decides to get into the large commercial side of carpentry not local construction where travel could several months away from home at a time.

Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:52:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Target starts at $16 an hour corporate wide. Not sure I would call $19 an hour good wages.

Makes more than his friends in retail is probably more accurate.
View Quote



$19 an hour is what a ten year cop here makes. As a nearly 20 year investigator, I am not too far off that...all that .gov pork and all, you know.


Depends on where you are as to whether those are good wages or not.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:53:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
 I’ve also finally got a guy here building a rock retaining wall around the end of my greenhouse, been waiting on that for a year and a half.
View Quote


The polygamists have been raking it in with the construction boom. They really are the best around for stacked retaining walls. I am next in line for my retaining wall and don't think it will happen now that winter is pretty much here. Maybe a spring one unless we have a mild winter.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:54:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
He’s working on a framing crew building large commercial property, apartments and hotels primarily.

He’s getting $19/hr and a $90/day travel bonus.

That’s pretty decent wages IMO.  He asked me for a job but I just don’t have a lot of work for him, he apologized that he’s making a lot now.

I told him not to feel bad at all for being worth more than I can pay right now, he deserves as much as he can earn.  With the crazy high wages in the trades, I’m really struggling to keep help around.
View Quote


Let him know about joining the Navy, become a Seebee... Life skills to give him a leg up in life, always...
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:59:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I'm talking about if the kid decides to get into the large commercial side of carpentry not local construction where travel could several months away from home at a time.

View Quote

I don’t think he will be, right now it’s just a job.  I’m good friends with the kid, his dad, his older brother has worked for me for 4 years, he’s good buddies with my sons....  our families are pretty close.

I advised the kid the same way I do with my own kids, at this stage of their lives they should NOT take a job based on what they will earn, they should take a job based on what they will learn.

So he’s trying to work for me so he can get into some design stuff, do some fabrication and welding, maybe some robotics.  These aren’t things my company does, but we are close enough to them that if I had people willing to put some effort in, I’ll commit some money to launch it.  We now have a small welding shop, a CNC mill and a small manual lathe and we’re going in the right direction to set my kids up in whatever direction they want.

This kid likes that and is willing to work for me at a severely discounted rate because I will make some opportunities happen for him and he’s smart enough to see past the $$ at this stage of his life.

But on the engineering side... I just can’t see why rates are still lagging so much.  Soon though, of nothing will get done.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 10:59:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Not much Union presence here in NW Montana. Unskilled construction labor is starting at $20-$22/HR and I've seen and heard of companies looking for carpenters starting between $25-$33/HR. Half the fast food places are offering bonuses and paying $16-$18/HR. I drove by Weyerhaeuser the other day and their sign out front said $21 or $22/HR for starting.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:01:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The polygamists have been raking it in with the construction boom. They really are the best around for stacked retaining walls. I am next in line for my retaining wall and don't think it will happen now that winter is pretty much here. Maybe a spring one unless we have a mild winter.
View Quote

What area are you in?

I had a great wall guy that makes rocks look like bricks.  He’s in prison till next spring and has been there over a year.  I had to get my friends son, he’s young and slow, but he can do a good job and I like letting kids get a start.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:08:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



$19 an hour is what a ten year cop here makes. As a nearly 20 year investigator, I am not too far off that...all that .gov pork and all, you know.


Depends on where you are as to whether those are good wages or not.
View Quote

What is a nearly 20 year investigator?  And why would anyone do that for that long to only make about $40k/year?
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:10:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

What is a nearly 20 year investigator?  And why would anyone do that for that long to only make about $40k/year?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



$19 an hour is what a ten year cop here makes. As a nearly 20 year investigator, I am not too far off that...all that .gov pork and all, you know.


Depends on where you are as to whether those are good wages or not.

What is a nearly 20 year investigator?  And why would anyone do that for that long to only make about $40k/year?



Overtime, and a great dental plan.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:11:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I don't think he will be, right now it's just a job.  I'm good friends with the kid, his dad, his older brother has worked for me for 4 years, he's good buddies with my sons....  our families are pretty close.

I advised the kid the same way I do with my own kids, at this stage of their lives they should NOT take a job based on what they will earn, they should take a job based on what they will learn.

So he's trying to work for me so he can get into some design stuff, do some fabrication and welding, maybe some robotics.  These aren't things my company does, but we are close enough to them that if I had people willing to put some effort in, I'll commit some money to launch it.  We now have a small welding shop, a CNC mill and a small manual lathe and we're going in the right direction to set my kids up in whatever direction they want.

This kid likes that and is willing to work for me at a severely discounted rate because I will make some opportunities happen for him and he's smart enough to see past the $$ at this stage of his life.

But on the engineering side... I just can't see why rates are still lagging so much.  Soon though, of nothing will get done.
View Quote
engineering rates are lagging because we're all too willing to compete during our race to be low bidder.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:12:30 AM EDT
[#31]
I think I was making about $24 a DAY on my first job.


Canadian.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:13:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Is wage increases coupled with 30% inflation a win?
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:14:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Overtime, and a great dental plan.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



$19 an hour is what a ten year cop here makes. As a nearly 20 year investigator, I am not too far off that...all that .gov pork and all, you know.


Depends on where you are as to whether those are good wages or not.

What is a nearly 20 year investigator?  And why would anyone do that for that long to only make about $40k/year?



Overtime, and a great dental plan.



That was poorly worded, I apologize. As an investigator who has nearly 20 years on, I make more than $40k, but no so much more that I would consider $40k to be chump change.

The overtime is OK, but I try to avoid it all costs. The insurance isn't bad, but I wouldn't call it great. The retirement is poor, but its guaranteed, until the pension goes broke.

To be brutally honest, I don't know why I still do it. In 31 months, I most likely won't be, but Lord knows what I will do then. This is what I know, and all I have known for a long time. Its been a good job, and a good career...but it's time.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:15:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
engineering rates are lagging because we're all too willing to compete during our race to be low bidder.
View Quote

I’m bidding on work with my old employer and they’ve mentioned they have far more work than they can handle and are bidding on more.  Yet they have a revolving door with people trying to keep their wages competitive.

And I still think the trades are gaining ground like crazy.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:17:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

What is a nearly 20 year investigator?  And why would anyone do that for that long to only make about $40k/year?
View Quote



Even a shit health insurance plan for a family is over $1,000/mo.  The health and dental benefits are probably worth $15,000 a year minimum if he has a family.  The pension would probably be hard to replace even by investing $10,000/yr and even then you'd have to smart about how you invest.

His real world compensation package is probably well over $60k.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:20:15 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I'm bidding on work with my old employer and they've mentioned they have far more work than they can handle and are bidding on more.  Yet they have a revolving door with people trying to keep their wages competitive.

And I still think the trades are gaining ground like crazy.
View Quote
at this point everyone but engineers are getting yuge raises.

meanwhile i haven't gotten a meaningful raise in a decade.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:22:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

For us small contractors, competing with union wages are no issue. The benefit package is the killer.
View Quote


Yeah, I work for a mom and pop shop. My total package isn’t as high as a union guy, but I take home more of it. It makes sense for my family and the boss. I wouldn’t care to go union right now.  If I leave my current shop it’ll be to open my own.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:25:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Culvers, a regional fast food chain, was offering $21.00 an hour with a signing bonus after 90 days.

No travel or union.

That fellow’s wage isn’t bad, but it could be higher.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:32:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Let him know about joining the Navy, become a Seebee... Life skills to give him a leg up in life, always...
View Quote

Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:35:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Target starts at $16 an hour corporate wide. Not sure I would call $19 an hour good wages.

Makes more than his friends in retail is probably more accurate.
View Quote

$19 is damn good wages here in Utah outside of Salt Lake, Davis, and Utah counties.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:36:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is wage increases coupled with 30% inflation a win?
View Quote


It is with the way they teach math and logic in schools today. It will take a while for people to realize that a 5% pay raise and 10% inflation is not a good thing. Biden’s answer will be to add more people to the FSA. I hope the middle class wakes up before we only have the have nots and the haves.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:49:09 AM EDT
[#42]
There’s not many entry level jobs around here that start below $20/hr
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:51:43 AM EDT
[#43]
I can't hire ANYONE for less than $20/hour, guaranteed 40, all the OT they want, 10 vacation/3 sick, paid holidays, plus medical and a 401k.  That's for a broom pusher, and even that's a challenge.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:52:29 AM EDT
[#44]
The local packing plant advertises on the radio 25/hr production and 30/hr for maintenance. Plus an extra 1/hr just to show up on time and do your job.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 11:58:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
at this point everyone but engineers are getting yuge raises.

meanwhile i haven't gotten a meaningful raise in a decade.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

I'm bidding on work with my old employer and they've mentioned they have far more work than they can handle and are bidding on more.  Yet they have a revolving door with people trying to keep their wages competitive.

And I still think the trades are gaining ground like crazy.
at this point everyone but engineers are getting yuge raises.

meanwhile i haven't gotten a meaningful raise in a decade.

I would say if this race for a higher wage all around in the country doesn't break fairly soon the engineer rates are going to see a similar change to the trades. In non-union trade wages I have had an five to six dollar an hour change in the South East in less than year (close to around low to mid-thirties now for millwrights with per diem increase as well). I am having to adjust field engineer rates, so for people who are traveling away from home 180+ days a year it is starting to adjust for those with degrees. The office is where we are seeing the stagnation amongst engineers, imho.


Link Posted: 11/25/2021 12:04:09 PM EDT
[#46]
My sixteen year old nephew is making $20 per hour washing dishes at Phillips Exeter Academy.

He also brings home all the food he can carry, and tuition prices for him are a pittance compared to what they would normally be.

That kid has the world by the balls. I'm proud of him
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 12:06:34 PM EDT
[#47]
That's pretty good for a framing crew.  

You just show up to the job when you say you will makes you  a good employee these days.  Especially in construction.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 12:13:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Its all about productivity.  I cringe when I hear employers bitch about wages and work not getting done in the same breath.  Good, Fast, Cheap; pick two.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 12:30:28 PM EDT
[#49]
in n out and chick fil a are also around 16$ here.
Link Posted: 11/25/2021 12:37:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's pretty good for a framing crew.  

You just show up to the job when you say you will makes you  a good employee these days.  Especially in construction.
View Quote


Stupid it’s like this.
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