10.5 or 11.5 Ar Pistol - Advantages/Disadvantages?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 10.5 or 11.5 Ar Pistol - Advantages/Disadvantages? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:44:55 AM EDT

Are there any noticeable differences between a 10.5 in and a 11.5 in (FBI-type) AR pistol in terms of handling, performance, excess gas, wear and tear, etc.? This would not be a copy-cat build; just a general, all around AR pistol with a brace.

It seems like I've read on here that there were significant ballistic advantages brought by the extra inch (ib4 that's what she said) which led the FBI to adopt the 11.5 barrel length.

What are GD's thoughts?

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:48:43 AM EDT

[#1]

If your going to want to use mil speck ammo like XM193 I suggest 11.5" nothing shorter.

Frag range is shit in short barrels unless you use some kind of specialty ammo like Vmax.

Also I'm assuming it's a 5.56 barrel. If your talking 9mm or something else then forget everything I said.

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:49:41 AM EDT

[#2]

Cartridge Information5.56mm M193 55gr Ball with BC of .243
Fragmentation threshold2700 fps (20": 130 yd / 16": 105 yd / 14.5": 90 yd)11.5" 40m10.25" 14m

RangeVelocity (ft/sec)Energy (ft-lbs)
20"16"14.5"20"16"14.5"
0325931323064129711981146
25314630232958120911161068
5030372919285511261040995
752932281727561050969928
100283027202661978903865
125273226252568911841805
150263725342479849784750
175254624462393792731699
200245723622310737681652
225237222802230687635607
250229022012153640592566
275221021242078596551527
300213420512006556514491
350198819111869483446427
400185317811742419387371
450172616591623364336322
500160915461513316292280

Fuck all formatting was lost on copy paste...

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:50:01 AM EDT

[#3]

Here's a good read on velocity differences - linky

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:52:08 AM EDT

[#4]

10.3 used to be the hottness, then the cool kids starting using 11.5. Now people are starting to use 12.5 and eventually we'll all be back to the approved tactical length of 16".

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:52:30 AM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
If your going to want to use mil speck ammo like XM193 I suggest 11.5" nothing shorter.

Frag range is shit in short barrels unless you use some kind of specialty ammo like Vmax.

Also I'm assuming it's a 5.56 barrel. If your talking 9mm or something else then forget everything I said.

View Quote

And I used to hold to this like concrete, but the facts are in the details (as StewartTR points toward by stating "If" using XM193-like ammo).

It's true, 11.5" means a lot more for standard military ammo damage on target.

The 'cheat' that I now realize I can/could use - after years of looking at 11.5" builds, but not buying (instead went to a 10.5" 300 AAC) - is soft-point bonded jacket 5.56 ammo. Civilians aren't regulated by military rules, so ammo choice is crucial if going for a 10.5" barrel.

AR15.COM 's Hornady Frontier 62gr SP Gel Test

I'm still stuck, though - I still demand as light of a barrel as possible, and Palmetto State Armory doesn't offer 'pencil' barrels in their 10.5" uppers. I'd have to buy a Faxon or Ballistic Advantage lightweight 10.5" barrel to get what I want out of my next pistol upper.

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:56:32 AM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 3/28/2019 9:59:11 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

And I used to hold to this like concrete, but the facts are in the details (as StewartTR points toward by stating "If" using XM193-like ammo).

It's true, 11.5" means a lot more for standard military ammo damage on target.

The 'cheat' that I now realize I can/could use - after years of looking at 11.5" builds, but not buying (instead went to a 10.5" 300 AAC) - is soft-point bonded jacket 5.56 ammo. Civilians aren't regulated by military rules, so ammo choice is crucial if going for a 10.5" barrel.

I'm still stuck, though - I still demand as light of a barrel as possible, and Palmetto State Armory doesn't offer 'pencil' barrels in their 10.5" uppers. I'd have to buy a Faxon or Ballistic Advantage lightweight 10.5" barrel to get what I want out of my next pistol upper.

View Quote

There are ammo options for short barrels. But M193 is the buy it cheap and stack it cheap option. That's why I keep is as the benchmark when discussing barrel length.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:02:21 AM EDT

[#8]

I believe the frag range with M193 and a 10.5" barrel would be something like 14 meters if memory servers...

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:04:22 AM EDT

[#9]

I believe there is 40% more dwell time with the 11.5" over the 10.5", that made the decision for me.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:05:15 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

There are ammo options for short barrels. But M193 is the buy it cheap and stack it cheap option. That's why I keep is as the benchmark when discussing barrel length.

View Quote

And I don't disagree with you, brother - I was just noting the distinction I finally made last week.

Considering that most of us have more than one AR, buying 'specialty' ammo for self-defense, when true AR15 self-defense rarely ever happens, is not that much of a hindrance to suggest that folks - should they buy their ammo carefully - shouldn't go with 10.5".

Buy it (XM193) cheap, stack it deep, and keep the 16" to 20" upper on hand should SHTF.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:06:00 AM EDT

[#11]

I was in the same boat as OP a year ago.

I run both 10.5 and 11.5 barrels. I prefer 11.5

The 11.5 gives you more dwell time for the gas system.

Here is a good vid...

My favorite SBR Barrel lengths / setups

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxwi9fAe4s8

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:06:09 AM EDT

[#12]

Definitely in 5.56, most likely with 55 and 62 gr. I'm not aboard the .300 Blk boat yet

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:07:32 AM EDT

[#13]

I swapped the 10.5 barrel with a Faxon Gunner 11.5.

Because for $125 why the fuck not.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:09:57 AM EDT

[#14]

Iirc, BCM sticks with 11.5 b/c of the advantages in dwell time, so I'd personally stick with what guys like them recommend.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:09:57 AM EDT

[#15]

10.3-5 if exclusively running a can ,11.5-12.5 if going bare some or all of the time.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:16:47 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
I believe there is 40% more dwell time with the 11.5" over the 10.5", that made the decision for me.

View Quote

This. It’s all about the dwell time. 1 inch for 40% is absolutely worth it.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:17:11 AM EDT

[#17]

My favorite 5.56 barrel lengths are 11.5 and 14.5. I read somewhere that 11.5 gets you something like 40% more gas dwell time than 10.5, which allows for a smaller gas port and less violent cycling. No idea if that translates to better real world reliability, but I see no need to change now.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:17:29 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was in the same boat as OP a year ago.

I run both 10.5 and 11.5 barrels. I prefer 11.5

The 11.5 gives you more dwell time for the gas system.

Here is a good vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxwi9fAe4s8

View Quote

If PSA would just watch flannel-daddy videos, they'd know what to offer to sell even more to we hold-outs.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:19:40 AM EDT

[#19]

Dwell time and smoother recoil impulse say 12.5"

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:24:03 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Are there any noticeable differences between a 10.5 in and a 11.5 in (FBI-type) AR pistol in terms of handling, performance, excess gas, wear and tear, etc.? This would not be a copy-cat build; just a general, all around AR pistol with a brace.

It seems like I've read on here that there were significant ballistic advantages brought by the extra inch (ib4 that's what she said) which led the FBI to adopt the 11.5 barrel length.

What are GD's thoughts?

View Quote

I am not sure there are "significant" ballistic advantages going form 10.5" to 11.5" (certainly some) but generally 5.56x45 terminal performance is very velocity dependent. Effective range of M193 and M855 is GREATLY reduced going from 14.5" to 11.5" and further to 10.5 or 7.5". That being said, for very short barrel ARs, ammunition selection outside of M193/M855 can mitigate effects of the short barrel. Speer Gold Dot has bullets for, 62gr. to 75gr. that perform and others (Hornady TAP, Barnes, Black Hills, etc.) as well. IIRC, years ago there was a perceived greater reliability difference between 10.5 and 11.5, the later getting the nod. However, I think that argument has resolved itself with mid-length and pistol-length gas systems and the ability to tune specific guns with buffer and buffer-spring weight and generally better built guns.

FWIW- I have a 7.5" barrel AR that runs flawlessly. While it may not provide rifle performance from M193/M855 through that short barrel, it is still more effective than MOST handgun rounds at typical handgun range. Over-penetration is definitely a concern. I have a few mags loaded with Speer Gol Dot 64gr. for HD use if needed.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:25:27 AM EDT

[#21]

The 11.5 advantage is dwell time. The ballistic advantage is negligible

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:26:58 AM EDT

[#22]

I guess 11.5” is more reliable, dwell time and all that. I dunno, I’ve yet to make my 10.3” malfunction for it to matter. A bit of extra frag range too I guess. An 11.5” would net me another 30m or so frag range over my 10.3”. The 10.3” gets me a good 200m or so with the right ammo anyway though, so I don’t know how much that 30m matters either.

I do have a 12.5” and it’s nice too. It’s a sliding scale of range, dwell time, and size. Where you’re most comfortable on that trade off scale is something only you can answer, and your opinion is the only one that matters for your gear. There’s not a right answer here (besides just getting every barrel length, you know, just to be safe).

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:29:47 AM EDT

[#23]

If your priorities are weight and length go with the 10.3"

Care more about velocity go with the 11.5"

As far as reliability goes just look to the MK18, it uses a 10.3" and LE & MIL trust their lives with it.

My 10.5" runs just fine, even when cycling at 15+ rounds per second. Personally weight and length, especially when pair with a suppressor was more important than the negligible difference in velocity.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:30:52 AM EDT

[#24]

Another vote for 11.5.

10.5 will work if you are using good ammo, but 1.5 gives you the flexibility for any ammo if needed.

That magical extra inch does wonders w/ velocity and dwell time.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:32:03 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
10.3-5 if exclusively running a can ,11.5-12.5 if going bare some or all of the time.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/401569/IMG_20181001_120706-01-689221.jpg

View Quote

I can definitely agree with this. My 10.3/10.5’s are a good bit more abusive without a can than my 12.5”. The shorter length of a 10.X” also makes the can a lot less cumbersome. I only shoot my 10.3/10.5’s suppressed, whereas my longer SBR lengths I could go either way.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:32:39 AM EDT

[#26]

11.5" if you're only going to buy one length or only want to stock one or two types of ammo but realistically you can buy ammo that is designed to perform out of the shorter barrel lengths. Garand Thumb's video is a good one explaining why to go 11.5 though. That said, as already mentioned, folks always throw out the arguments against military issue stuff but it's easy enough to keep a couple of magazines of something designed for short barrels on hand.

ETA- Side note, remember you're not limited to 5.56. I dropped three deer in their tracks last season with an 11.3" 6.8SPCII.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:35:03 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
My favorite 5.56 barrel lengths are 11.5 and 14.5. I read somewhere that 11.5 gets you something like 40% more gas dwell time than 10.5, which allows for a smaller gas port and less violent cycling. No idea if that translates to better real world reliability, but I see no need to change now.

View Quote

I've read many times that the shorter the barrel the harder it is to get it running reliably. There's so many 10" guns out there now that I think someone must have figured out a recipe for that length though.

Another vote in the 11.5" column though IMHO.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:35:11 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another vote for 11.5.

10.5 will work if you are using good ammo, but 1.5 gives you the flexibility for any ammo if needed.

That magical extra inch does wonders w/ velocity and dwell time.

View Quote

Both lengths have terrible velocities and should not be used with M193 or similar ammo for self defense that are reliant on velocity to cause expansion.
I personally use MK318 in my SBR to allow for adequate expansion as well as barrier penetration.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:38:13 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

Both lengths have terrible velocities and should not be used with M193 or similar ammo for self defense that are reliant on velocity to cause expansion.
I personally use MK318 in my SBR to allow for adequate expansion as well as barrier penetration.

View Quote

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:40:45 AM EDT

[#30]

Can? 10.3/10.5

No can? 12.5

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:41:36 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
I guess 11.5” is more reliable, dwell time and all that. I dunno, I’ve yet to make my 10.3” malfunction for it to matter. A bit of extra frag range too I guess. An 11.5” would net me another 30m or so frag range over my 10.3”. The 10.3” gets me a good 200m or so with the right ammo anyway though, so I don’t know how much that 30m matters either.

I do have a 12.5” and it’s nice too. It’s a sliding scale of range, dwell time, and size. Where you’re most comfortable on that trade off scale is something only you can answer, and your opinion is the only one that matters for your gear. There’s not a right answer here (besides just getting every barrel length, you know, just to be safe).

View Quote

I agree. If you want to base your self defense scenario on cheap bulk fmj then just stick with a 14.5"+ rifle. Choose the right ammo and even a 10.3 is massively effective out to any distance we would be justified in using it for self defense, and with the right gas port, is as reliable as anything else out there. Quality Bonded SP, SMK, TMK and is widely available.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:42:56 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

Both lengths have terrible velocities and should not be used with M193 or similar ammo for self defense that are reliant on velocity to cause expansion.
I personally use MK318 in my SBR to allow for adequate expansion as well as barrier penetration.

View Quote

11.5 doesn't have that much loss of velocity compared to 14.5 and is able to expand with with defense ammo.

If you mean frag from M193, it has the potential to because you are still reaching the necessary velocity to have potential frag.
Frag from M193 is always a toss up even when reaching the velocities required for it to happen.

Oh look. Vids

Why 50gr TSX Is The Ultimate 5.56mm Home Defense Load: Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX Gel Test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3xgcu2yNRs

How Low Can It Go? Extreme Low Velocity .223 Federal 62gr Fusion Gel Test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otou1Fws4cQ

***DEMONITIZED*** .223 gel test: Black Hills 77 gr TMK, (11.5" &16" bbl)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBU03vdr2Q

.223 gel test: Hornady 55 gr soft point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKWojqtvHnE

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:53:41 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

11.5 doesn't have that much loss of velocity compared to 14.5 and is able to expand with with defense ammo.

If you mean frag from M193, it has the potential to because you are still reaching the necessary velocity to have potential frag.
Frag from M193 is always a toss up even when reaching the velocities required for it to happen.

Oh look. Vids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3xgcu2yNRs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otou1Fws4cQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBU03vdr2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKWojqtvHnE

View Quote

If memory servers, there's a reliably frag velocity and a lower might frag velocity. 10" you start at the might frag pretty much at the muzzle.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:55:58 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

If memory servers, there's a reliably frag velocity and a lower might frag velocity. 10" you start at the might frag pretty much at the muzzle.

View Quote

Yes about 2600-2700 is the range where you begin to have potential to frag.

10.5 just barley hits that at the muzzle, then very quickly loses it.

Posted: 3/28/2019 10:56:26 AM EDT

[#35]

12.5..

That's my latest, gives a little bit more velocity along with real estate.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:01:05 AM EDT

[#36]

I've been eyeballing the 4.5"

Attached File

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:03:22 AM EDT

[#37]

11.5" has the advantage in everything except handling

I still have multiple 10.3"/10.5"

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:04:04 AM EDT

[#38]

I like playing with my 10.5

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:11:13 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
10.3 used to be the hottness, then the cool kids starting using 11.5. Now people are starting to use 12.5 and eventually we'll all be back to the approved tactical length of 16".

View Quote

I have 10.3, 12, 12.5, and 14.5 ARs. No plans for 11.5 or 16 at this time.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:13:46 AM EDT

[#40]

My wife says an inch, plus or minus, doesn’t make much difference if you know how to use it.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:20:07 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cartridge Information5.56mm M193 55gr Ball with BC of .243
Fragmentation threshold2700 fps (20": 130 yd / 16": 105 yd / 14.5": 90 yd)11.5" 40m10.25" 14m

RangeVelocity (ft/sec)Energy (ft-lbs)
20"16"14.5"20"16"14.5"
0325931323064129711981146
25314630232958120911161068
5030372919285511261040995
752932281727561050969928
100283027202661978903865
125273226252568911841805
150263725342479849784750
175254624462393792731699
200245723622310737681652
225237222802230687635607
250229022012153640592566
275221021242078596551527
300213420512006556514491
350198819111869483446427
400185317811742419387371
450172616591623364336322
500160915461513316292280

Fuck all formatting was lost on copy paste...

View Quote

Good job living up to that avatar, sparky.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:31:48 AM EDT

[#42]

I was thinking this and went 11.5

Because no can and I was going to put a short muzzle device on it.

There's the thing about length and handling. If either way you are going with some large device or brake do the 10.5.

The increase in fragmentation range going to 11.5 is actually better than you would think. There's a YouTube video out there that shows 556 is still exploding at 100m in 11 where 10 does not.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:39:22 AM EDT

[#43]

10.5" Advantage: PSA has near complete pistol kits for like $87

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:47:48 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was thinking this and went 11.5

Because no can and I was going to put a short muzzle device on it.

There's the thing about length and handling. If either way you are going with some large device or brake do the 10.5.

The increase in fragmentation range going to 11.5 is actually better than you would think. There's a YouTube video out there that shows 556 is still exploding at 100m in 11 where 10 does not.

View Quote

a muzzle brake on an unsuppressed 10.5" 5.56 is a great idea

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:54:07 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Are there any noticeable differences between a 10.5 in and a 11.5 in (FBI-type) AR pistol in terms of handling, performance, excess gas, wear and tear, etc.? This would not be a copy-cat build; just a general, all around AR pistol with a brace.

It seems like I've read on here that there were significant ballistic advantages brought by the extra inch (ib4 that's what she said) which led the FBI to adopt the 11.5 barrel length.

What are GD's thoughts?

View Quote

HERE IS A LEGAL DIFFERENCE WHICH MANY WHO DISCUSS AR-15 PISTOLS ON THE BOARDS DON'T REALIZE

A 10.5" barrel on an AR-15 pistol with standard length pistol buffer tube will be under 26" (measurement with the muzzle attachment off) and considered to be a pistol under federal law as well as a pistol in MOST states but not ALL states. So, if you want to carry it loaded in your car or in a backpack with your CCW, be sure to know your state's (or state you are traveling through/to) definition of pistol. Some states use the federal 26" overall length definition and some use barrel length definitions so the overall length doesn't matter only the barrel length.

Now to the 11.5" barrel. When you use this length with a standard pistol length buffer tube you are OVER 26" which takes the gun out of the pistol definition in MANY states so your CCW may not cover you legally if you want to carry it in your car or in a backpack, etc.. Also and VERY IMPORTANT: when your AR-15 pistol is over 26" it is no longer considered a pistol under federal law - its status is a "firearm." The advantage here is that you can legally attach a second vertical pistol grip BUT under federal law, you CANNOT conceal a "firearm" IF it has the second vertical grip attached OR IT BECOMES AN UNREGISTERED AOW. So, if you live in Virginia and have the unConstitutional (and NRA-backed) Project Exile law in effect, the local LE who arrests you for whatever is obligated to send the report to ATF so they can examine the firearms case to see if any federal laws were also broken. So if you were trespassing on private property (unknowingly) and are charged and happened to have your AR-15 pistol with 11.5" barrel with second vertical grip under your jacket, you have actually committed a federal felony in violation of the 1934 NFA.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:55:54 AM EDT

[#46]

Is the dwell time that much more advantagoeous with an 11.5 than a 10.5 inch barrel for reliability? IDK , but look all here with a flawless 10.5 inch upper. If your gun is just for fun than either length doesn’t matter. If you need that Fragmentation Go longer.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:57:33 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Is the dwell time that much more advantagoeous with an 11.5 than a 10.5 inch barrel for reliability? IDK , but look all here with a flawless 10.5 inch upper. If your gun is just for fun than either length doesn’t matter. If you need that Fragmentation Go longer.

View Quote

If I'm relying on fragmentation, then I spent too much money on strippers and not enough on proper defensive ammo.

Posted: 3/28/2019 11:57:45 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
a muzzle brake on an unsuppressed 10.5" 5.56 is a great idea

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was thinking this and went 11.5

Because no can and I was going to put a short muzzle device on it.

There's the thing about length and handling. If either way you are going with some large device or brake do the 10.5.

The increase in fragmentation range going to 11.5 is actually better than you would think. There's a YouTube video out there that shows 556 is still exploding at 100m in 11 where 10 does not.

a muzzle brake on an unsuppressed 10.5" 5.56 is a great idea

@RLunyATL Shooting a 10.3" AR with a brake makes your avatar very appropriate lol. Ask me how I know. Man I wish my Surefire can would get approved

Posted: 3/28/2019 12:03:02 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:

HERE IS A LEGAL DIFFERENCE WHICH MANY WHO DISCUSS AR-15 PISTOLS ON THE BOARDS DON'T REALIZE

A 10.5" barrel on an AR-15 pistol with standard length pistol buffer tube will be under 26" (measurement with the muzzle attachment off) and considered to be a pistol under federal law as well as a pistol in MOST states but not ALL states. So, if you want to carry it loaded in your car or in a backpack with your CCW, be sure to know your state's (or state you are traveling through/to) definition of pistol. Some states use the federal 26" definition and some use barrel length definitions so the over length doesn't matter only the barrel length.

Now to the 11.5" barrel. When you use this length with a standard pistol length buffer tube you are OVER 26" which takes the gun out of the pistol definition in MANY states so your CCW may not cover you legally if you want to carry it in your car or in a backpack, etc.. Also and VERY IMPORTANT: when your AR-15 pistol is over 26" it is no longer considered a pistol under federal law - its status is a "firearm." The advantage here is that you can legally attach a second vertical pistol grip BUT under federal law, you CANNOT conceal a "firearm" IF it has the second vertical grip attached OR IT BECOMES AN UNREGISTERED AOW. So, if you live in Virginia and have the unConstitutional (and NRA-backed) Project Exile law in effect, the local LE who arrests you for whatever is obligated to send the report to ATF so they can examine the firearms case to see if any federal laws were also broken. So if you were trespassing on private property (unknowingly) and are charged and happened to have your AR-15 pistol with 11.5" barrel with second vertical grip under your jacket, you have actually committed a federal felony in violation of the 1934 NFA.

View Quote

True. In GA a handgun is =/< 12in barrel but no overall length. IIRC and I'm not a lawyer.

Edit: off topic but what I find weird in the GA statues is a long gun is a barrel of 18 or greater and overall length of at least 26 inches. What about 12-18in barrels? Where do they fall?

Posted: 3/28/2019 12:17:14 PM EDT

[#50]

My 77 gr TMK hand loads don’t care if the barrel is 10.3” or 11.5”. They’ll fragment at any reasonable defensive distance.

I’ll stick with 10.3” and a can.

Attached File

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 10.5 or 11.5 Ar Pistol - Advantages/Disadvantages? (Page 1 of 2)

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