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Posted: 1/14/2021 4:12:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zerohedge is a junk website. Thank you for your thought provoking insight and the thorough explanation of your in-depth analysis. Your presence here is highly valued, as is your wisdom. Collectively, we, the readers of your post owe you an inestimable debt of gratitude. 
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Posted: 1/14/2021 4:12:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nonsense. It isn't like diamond mining with a few large companies controlling supply. There are hundreds of gold mining companies with listed stocks. When they economy is going strong, something like 10% of gold production is a byproduct of copper mining. All the new printed dollars are going into the stock market. When that takes a dump, all the dollars are going to go chasing hard assets to preserve wealth. At the end of the day, you hold gold in your hand. You hold a scramble of letters and numbers with a bitcoin. I still say (and I do) get both. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 4:20:23 PM EDT
[#3]
The time to temporarily cash out of BTC is when there are 8-10 threads about it in GD at any given time, your broke kid is speaking about harvesting strategies, and your medically confined old man is asking how to buy it, not “what is it?”.
In short, get out (temporarily) when everybody who shouldn’t be talking about it is talking about it . You know, just like last time... We are not there yet. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 5:51:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for your thought provoking insight and the thorough explanation of your in-depth analysis. Your presence here is highly valued, as is your wisdom. Collectively, we, the readers of your post owe you an inestimable debt of gratitude. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Zerohedge is a junk website. Thank you for your thought provoking insight and the thorough explanation of your in-depth analysis. Your presence here is highly valued, as is your wisdom. Collectively, we, the readers of your post owe you an inestimable debt of gratitude. Apparently it needed to be said, because people still fall for the junk they publish. 
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Posted: 1/14/2021 6:06:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently it needed to be said, because people still fall for the junk they publish. “They” didn’t publish it. I said it was a comment from an article there.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 6:24:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This article (already mentioned) was from 2016. In it, two researchers describe the technique that they used to track money. They also note Federal resources began to employ the same techniques. The surveillance state has only grown in the intervening years. I can't believe that a non nation state actor will be able to evade Federal scrutiny. It worked then because it was new. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: UnKKKle Xiden can take away gold. It would be pretty hard for them to take away BitCoin. This article (already mentioned) was from 2016. In it, two researchers describe the technique that they used to track money. They also note Federal resources began to employ the same techniques. Among the first researchers to find a crack in the wall were the husband-and-wife team of Philip and Diana Koshy. In 2014, as graduate students in McDaniel’s lab at Penn State, they built their own version of the software that buyers and sellers use to take part in the Bitcoin network. It was especially designed to be inefficient, downloading a copy of every single packet of data transmitted by every computer in the Bitcoin network. “We wanted to see everything,” Philip Koshy says. If the data flowing through the network were perfectly coordinated, with everyone’s computer sending and receiving data as frequently as the rest, then it might be impossible to link Bitcoin addresses with IP addresses. But there is no top-down coordination of the Bitcoin network, and its flow is far from perfect. The Koshys noticed that sometimes a computer sent out information about only one transaction, meaning that the person at that IP address was the owner of that Bitcoin address. And sometimes a surge of transactions came from a single IP address—probably when the user was upgrading his or her Bitcoin client software. Those transactions held the key to a whole backlog of their Bitcoin addresses. Like unraveling a ball of string, once the Koshys isolated some of the addresses, others followed. Ultimately, they were able to map IP addresses to more than 1000 Bitcoin addresses; they published their findings in the proceedings of an obscure cryptography conference. It is unusual for an academic paper to cause both The New York Times and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to come calling. “It was crazy,” Philip Koshy says. Their technique has not yet appeared in the official record of a criminal case, but the Koshys say they have observed so-called fake nodes on the Bitcoin network associated with IP addresses in government data centers in Virginia, suggesting that investigators there are hoovering up the data packets for surveillance purposes too. (The pair has since left academia for tech industry jobs.) The surveillance state has only grown in the intervening years. I can't believe that a non nation state actor will be able to evade Federal scrutiny. It worked then because it was new. So they can trace transactions back to an IP address. That hardly seems like an effective way trace transactions. The tracing process combine with basic IP security procedures (VPN, Tor, etc) would make this highly difficult to actually trace. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:06:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: They can shut it down in a hot minute. Bitcoin is very trackable. It has to be pulled out to cash to break the trail. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/12/26/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-criminals-law-enforcement/ BTC isn't the only crypto out there. Getting usd in exchange for BTC is difficult to do anonymously. The only way I can think of would be selling directly p2p for cash. Otherwise you'll have to go through an exchange like coinbase, which is like a bank, in that they know who you are. BTC is kind of like the reserve currency for all crypto currency. I think every exchange deals in it, so you can exchange it for other forms of crypto that are more anonymous. The biggest concern about crypto to me is that it requires the internet, which I don't think is going away, but it's definitely a valve that can be opened/closed or filtered. I'm new to actually learning about crypto, so I could be completely wrong about all of this stuff. I'd think it's a good idea to get familiar with crypto, but I wouldn't risk money that you wouldn't spend on a nice meal out or on a night at the casino at this point. Quoted: Tulips are beautiful too. We should pay almost anything to acquire tulip bulbs. The thing about tulips is that they make more tulips. As was already mentioned, there are a fixed number of bitcoins. They won't make more. This has never been an accurate analogy for bitcoin. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:09:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So they can trace transactions back to an IP address. That hardly seems like an effective way trace transactions. The tracing process combine with basic IP security procedures (VPN, Tor, etc) would make this highly difficult to actually trace. I also think that having a fixed address for the BTC can be avoided too. I know for some wallets, you can request a different address to receive payment from others. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:09:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crypto is here to stay Can’t stop the signal LOL, the signal sure as shit got stopped a few days ago.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:19:48 PM EDT
[#10]
OP (and others) are retarded. Gold has increased by 8.1% (nominal) and 6.5% (real) since the start of modern quantitative easing in the US (Nov 2008) and ending Dec 2020.
Don't take investment advice from a site with a sizeable amount of Qtards, flat earthers, and various other tin foil clothed people too lazy to dig up data, that is the real lesson here. ETA: Those gold appreciation rates are not in relation to cash, had you buried it in the back yard, they are in relation to what you would get holding "cash" in a money market fund (close to T-bils), so they're even higher compared to that change jar that's been sitting on the counter since 2008. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:25:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Did you know Binance is the largest crypto exchange at the moment? Binace requires you to buy Tether before you can purchase bitcoin on their platform. Tether has admitted they are no longer backed $1 for every tether. Guess who owns Binance and Tether? Wouldn't be surprised to see Tether printing unbacked to pump BTC at this point.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 10:25:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So they can trace transactions back to an IP address. That hardly seems like an effective way trace transactions. The tracing process combine with basic IP security procedures (VPN, Tor, etc) would make this highly difficult to actually trace. Quote HistoryQuoted: So they can trace transactions back to an IP address. That hardly seems like an effective way trace transactions. The tracing process combine with basic IP security procedures (VPN, Tor, etc) would make this highly difficult to actually trace. How the NSA can break trillions of encrypted Web and VPN connections Researchers show how mass decryption is well within the NSA's $11 billion budget. Dan Goodin - 10/15/2015, 10:42 AM This is a 6 year old article on how the NSA could break VPNs. "Since a handful of primes are so widely reused, the payoff, in terms of connections they could decrypt, would be enormous," researchers Alex Halderman and Nadia Heninger wrote in a blog post published Wednesday. "Breaking a single, common 1024-bit prime would allow NSA to passively decrypt connections to two-thirds of VPNs and a quarter of all SSH servers globally. Breaking a second 1024-bit prime would allow passive eavesdropping on connections to nearly 20% of the top million HTTPS websites. In other words, a one-time investment in massive computation would make it possible to eavesdrop on trillions of encrypted connections." Shadow Brokers Leak Just Revealed How The NSA Broke American-Made Encryption A five year old article. As noted in a Der Spiegel article from December 2014, the NSA claimed an astonishing rate of success against VPNs. By late 2009, the same year Cisco discontinued support for PIX, the agency was processing 1,000 requests an hour to decrypt VPN connections. It expected to be doing 100,000 per hour by the end of 2011. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 10:26:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you know Binance is the largest crypto exchange at the moment? Well Binance has a big ass. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 11:31:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And when the power is gone, so is the bitcoin. Fuk that! When the power is gone-gone, so is your cash. Your gold isn't fungible on a "I need that can of beans/box of shells" basis. Silver might be...or might not. While I'm sympathetic to the need for a store of value that can function in a primitive market economy (i.e. after the global economy and dollar get flushed)...precious metals (assuming it doesn't become a felony to hold gold/silver in lieu of government Emergency Scrip) function only in that space where there's still a functional economy but not a cash economy. If it's all survival economy...nobody is giving you a case of beans for some silver eagles or britannias. It'll be barter only. While Bitcoin does require a functional digital economy...so does the rest of the fiat currency...and the metals require a fairly non-apocalyptic economy as well. So that's not exactly an argument against Bitcoin itself....but an argument against putting a critical amount of your net worth into Bitcoin (it's also volatile, so your exposure should be limited just due to that). Ideally, you'd want everything from metals to cash to stocks/bonds/etc to crypto to real estate to an ammo trade fort. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:14:33 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Supposedly, the only reason gold is so high is because a cartel of gold miners manipulate the supply and price of it. Unlikely, given the enormous number of wildcat "artisanal" gold mining that occurs all over the place, as well as state-owned/state-friendly mining companies that neither could nor would cooperate with cartel operations. Diamonds are way more controllable, and DeBeers is still hanging on to their market control by their fingernails (between "conflict diamonds" and increasingly-awesome artificial production). |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:33:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Well, it's easier to move something from $250 billion in valuation to $1 trillion in valuation than it is to already increase $10 trillion to say $20 trillion.
Add that in terms of usefulness, Bitcoin isn't a sheer pain in the ass to move like gold is, and, well, people investing in a hedge are more willing to park their dollars in Bitcoin than gold. Thus, since the option is available, gold is less appealing as a hedge and Bitcoin is stripping it of dollars that would otherwise go there instead. Add to that millennials acceptance of such a payment platform vs boomers. Invest in the future for greatest growth opportunity. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:40:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The time to temporarily cash out of BTC is when there are 8-10 threads about it in GD at any given time, your broke kid is speaking about harvesting strategies, and your medically confined old man is asking how to buy it, not “what is it?”. In short, get out (temporarily) when everybody who shouldn’t be talking about it is talking about it . You know, just like last time... We are not there yet. If you visit 4Chan /biz/ and see a mass of Pink Wojaks....time to buy. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:53:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think acceptance will only grow. The illegal/illicit markets are already recognizing its potential. Add in one or two major retailers and you could quickly see it go mainstream. Bitcoin is exactly the wrong means of exchange for illegal/illicit markets. Blockchain is literally a record from the beginning of time of all bitcoins (including fractions of bitcoins spent). Not only is it easily traceable, this type of record-keeping gets only more onerous as time goes on. Also, why would anyone with real economic assets invest heavily to become a marginal player in a system where the vast majority of bitcoins were created without regard to actual economic production? The marginal benefit of entering into bitcoin will go down to a net negative once the speculation craze goes away. indeed, much of the past and current appreciation of bitcoin can be tied to the wealthy in China using it to evade capital controls, a situation which is unsustainable. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:56:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you buy Bitcoin, download it into your paper wallet. Do not store it online at an exchange. Remember Mt. Gox? Second, as dollars are created, it destroys the purchasing power of existing dollars. The dollar being the world's reserve currency gives it some cushion for US, but not the world and one of our biggest exports is inflation (other central banks go brrrrr! to keep the rate of exchange equal). Metals are manipulated down as part of perception management to con the public into believing the dollar has value where it doesn't. It won't be pretty, but the reset is in progress. Sunkist is the best man to have in the Whine Haus when the wheels finally fall off. He's gone through two bankruptcies already. God Bless our Naught Sunkist Individual! And this is why a smart investor will go to metals. This manipulation is unsustainable in this type of deficit environment. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 1:32:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you visit 4Chan /biz/ and see a mass of Pink Wojaks....time to buy. Is a pink wojak a baby Kojak? |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:38:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And this is why a smart investor will go to metals. This manipulation is unsustainable in this type of deficit environment. Metal prices are down and yet this morning....  |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:46:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Gold and cash are manipulated so hard they are not worth shit. Go buy something with gold...oh, you cant. You probably dont even have the gold, in most cases.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:51:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Occam's razor- because most people are really stupid.
In a former life, I used to broker PMs to really rich people. Like, people who could buy your town. You know what they don't buy? Bitcoin. Do you know why? Because they understand how money and wealth transfer works. And it doesn't happen on your iPhone. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:57:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Remember when Michael Burre questioned Goldman on why the bond market wasn’t moving when it was clear that the bonds would fail due to the increasing amount of defaults? The woman replied that these are complex markets and value is not always correlated, to which Michael responded they are correlated.
It is unimaginable to think gold won’t SKYROCKET. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:22:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Didn't Yellen just say crypto is just for terrorists? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 5:01:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't Yellen just say crypto is just for terrorists? Basically. She doesn't speak off the cuff. Her higher ups no doubt gave her orders to start vilifying it now so the public will readily accept banning it in the near future. |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 12:17:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Basically. She doesn't speak off the cuff. Her higher ups no doubt gave her orders to start vilifying it now so the public will readily accept banning it in the near future. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn't Yellen just say crypto is just for terrorists? Basically. She doesn't speak off the cuff. Her higher ups no doubt gave her orders to start vilifying it now so the public will readily accept banning it in the near future. Bitcoin smells a little too much like freedom to our overlords. |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 12:34:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Boomer thread
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Posted: 2/1/2021 1:45:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Your title is mis-leading BITCOIN cannot inflate, the maximum possible number of BTC is 21 million.
Bitcoin is the RAREST commodity in the universe. |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 4:33:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your title is mis-leading BITCOIN cannot inflate, the maximum possible number of BTC is 21 million. Bitcoin is the RAREST commodity in the universe. Computer heat is quite the rare commodity. 
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Posted: 2/21/2021 1:17:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Bitcoin still inflating?
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Posted: 2/21/2021 1:21:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bitcoin still inflating? 
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:28:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Bitcoin is not inflating.
Bitcoin cannot " Inflate" There are 18.6 million bitcoin. The maximum possible number of bitcoin is 21million, this is a hard limit. "Bitcoin is the rarest fungible,divisible,tradeable commodity in the universe" |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:30:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bitcoin is not inflating. Bitcoin cannot " Inflate" There are 18.6 million bitcoin. The maximum possible number of bitcoin is 21million, this is a hard limit. "Bitcoin is the rarest fungible,divisible,tradeable commodity in the universe" Bitcoin is HARDENING. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:54:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because gold is a boomer commodity and almost impossible to use as currency, while BTC or similar provides similar protection against inflation while being able to buy a sandwich at Subway if you choose? Yer correct. However gold can be traded for any currency on the planet AND have borrowing power in other currencies WHLIE still having Yer Gold. A subway sandwich? Not so much. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 2:57:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or it could be the market of bidders for alternative currency see bitcoin as more valuable than gold and silver. Competition alters the subjective value of things. The more $ chasing bitcoin leaves less $ chasing bullion. I like gold but bitcoins ability to transfer wealth anywhere in the world and no fees for storages are appealing. Also we have an entire gen of millennials staring to acquire lots of wealth that were raised in the digital age and don’t really raise an eye at the concept of a fancy knew digital money. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:29:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Gold would be a huge PITA to actually use.
Btc, on the other hand... Not. Unless power is out, then gold is great |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:37:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bitcoin is not inflating. Bitcoin cannot " Inflate" There are 18.6 million bitcoin. The maximum possible number of bitcoin is 21million, this is a hard limit. "Bitcoin is the rarest fungible,divisible,tradeable commodity in the universe" But bitcoin is not tangible. Also, hacking into bitcoin accounts are getting easier these days...ask the North Koreans... |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:43:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold would be a huge PITA to actually use. Btc, on the other hand... Not. Unless power is out, then gold is great You've got that how do I hold it in my hand thing going on with BTC. It, being BTC. will be driven north into submission until it can't go any further. If you don't have an internet connection then your wallet doesn't work. It will go north until it doesn't and turns into nothing. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:44:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Gold in your hands doesn't lose value.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:14:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've thought about this: Gold is always increasing in supply. Bitcoin only increased in supply to pay for transaction processing Gold is hard to own. You have to ship it, inside it, lock it up or pay someone to do all that. Bitcoin is cheap and easy to hold Gold has high transaction fees Gold is for the elite Bitcoin is more accessible The gold supply is fixed at whatever amount of recoverable gold exists in the earth's crust. They are digging it up all the time, but a lot of it is used in manufacturing and industrial processes. Same for silver. Gold is valuable for a lot of reasons. Beyond the value of gold itself, it's existence employs a lot of people. Miners, equipment manufacturers, jewelers, etc all have jobs because precious metals exist. And even if people didn't value them as a currency or a commodity, they still have value for their industrial uses. The thing about precious metals versus fiat currency in any form is, they are tangible. And for "the poors", all of those inconvennt things about precious metals like storage and transportation are not really issues when your entire net worth would only take up a couple handfuls of coins. Peolle dig up treasure hoards in Europe every so often that have been hidden for thousands of years, so it seems security can be as simple and low-cost as burying some treasure off the beaten path. Look at that Forest Fenn treasure that remained hidden for decades with plenty of clues as to how to find it. Thousands of people looked for it and came up empty handed. So crypto, like the dollar, is only valuable because a bunch of people agree to consider it to be valuable. That's it. If a bunch of thise people suddenly change their mind, it loses value. The same could be said of metals, but they can't disappear if there is a big power outage. They can't be stolen by a hacker on the other side of the world sitting in their apartment in pajamas. They don't require you to remember a code to unlock them for use. I think crypto is fun in small amounts to play with, but I wouldn't rely on it to save me from inflation. I have a little cash sitting in a bank right now losing value and I am probably going to buy some more metals and maybe put a little into some real estate. I already used a third of it to pay off a property. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:17:04 AM EDT
[#42]
 Gov will control crypto just like our worthless toilet paper dollar They are the problem |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:17:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure you can. How much is your house? $240K? OK, I'll give you 125, 1-oz. gold American Eagle coins. Agreed? Good. Let's go to the attorney's office and get it signed over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can't buy a house or car with gold. I think even drugs would be a struggle, and it's famous for being manipulated by big forces. Yep. There is nothing I am willing to sell for dollars that I wouldn't also trade for gold at spot. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:44:07 AM EDT
[#44]
BTC doesn't (yet) have a futures market that is easily manipulated.
don't worry... it will.  |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 4:56:58 AM EDT
[#45]
BTH will free you from the dollar and it’s continued slide to worthlessness.
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Posted: 2/23/2021 5:01:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: I read this comment on ZH today: They print Trillions of dollars out of thin air and gold and silver barely move. Bitcoin goes over 40k. Tell me which one is manipulated? Premise - Bitcoin is allowed to run while gold is held down in order to drive inflation hedgers out of gold and into Bitcoin. This is deliberate and intended to transfer wealth from many to few, same as it always was. If the above premise is accurate, then I presume Bitcoin will one day become toxic or outlawed somehow. I would then assume gold, which has been held down so long, will rise to once again take its place? How best to avoid being Bitcoin bag holder? Avoid Bitcoin and stack gold regardless of what I am seeing? Stay in cash? IMO Way too much sentiment and hype for Bitcoin to hit six figures. because gold sucks dick. It always has. It isn't practical. It never has been and the premium is too much. bitcoin is digital and can be fractionalized. Have fun with that in gold. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 5:06:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: because gold sucks dick. It always has. It isn't practical. It never has been and the premium is too much. bitcoin is digital and can be fractionalized. Have fun with that in gold. Lol you are literally arguing that gold is so valuable that it's difficult to divide it up.  Gee, I sure don't want anything like that! 
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Posted: 2/23/2021 6:05:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Gold has been a " boomer " commodity for thousands of years kids.
When the fed gets tired of the nat that is crypto be ready to bleed. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 6:07:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that if the government could have shut down crypto currency by now, they would have. It's a direct threat to one of their means of control. This. It’s impossible to shutdown. It’s the torrent of currency with those that control real assets. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 6:12:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol you are literally arguing that gold is so valuable that it's difficult to divide it up. Gee, I sure don't want anything like that! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: because gold sucks dick. It always has. It isn't practical. It never has been and the premium is too much. bitcoin is digital and can be fractionalized. Have fun with that in gold. Lol you are literally arguing that gold is so valuable that it's difficult to divide it up. Gee, I sure don't want anything like that! Your reading comprehension is low. It’s too costly to make a 1/32 piece of gold because of physical manufacturing limits. That doesn’t mean that a unit of labor, inputs, or machinery isn’t worth 1/32, just that it isn’t practical to price it as such, therefore it is inefficient. Then, take into account that a government could take your dollar and immediately devalue it by decree and you have what you have. |
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