User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:17:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Now convince Alito of that, he's always willing to give the police every power they ask for.
Kharn |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:17:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Gorsuch is probably the strongest defender of individual liberties on the court
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:24:09 PM EDT
[#3]
This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance.
Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:25:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Gorsuch gets it.
Big Govt: "Somehow, somewhere, somebody's getting away with something!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:25:29 PM EDT
[#5]
How does this play with Santana?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:26:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. And in that effort to balance competing interests, you err on the side of the constitution. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:28:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:29:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. Not one of those examples you gave would stop police from filing for a probable cause warrant |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:30:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And in that effort to balance competing interests, you err on the side of the constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. And in that effort to balance competing interests, you err on the side of the constitution. An excellent point. The issue is if it’s reasonable to continue to allow for “hot pursuit” for a misdemeanor. I think it can be but for crimes against a person. Not necessarily every misdemeanor. Traffic for instance would be a bridge too far. Making it to your front door shouldn’t be an automatic “home base” win simply because call volume is such that there’s not enough time to deal with it. That just begets more crime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:32:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. The problem with this just like every other legal instrument we give our cops is it gets abused to the extent that courts have no choice but to take it away from you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:34:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not one of those examples you gave would stop police from filing for a probable cause warrant Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. Not one of those examples you gave would stop police from filing for a probable cause warrant There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out.  Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:34:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem with this just like every other legal instrument we give our cops is it gets abused to the extent that courts have no choice but to take it away from you. How abused is the principle of pursuit of a suspect into a residence not requiring a search warrant? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:35:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorsuch is probably the strongest defender of individual liberties on the court Yeah; how the hell did he get suggested by Heritage, anyway? Had to have been a mistake. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:38:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. Both the FBI and BJS data show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s, when crime spiked across much of the nation. Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2019, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-68%), murder/non-negligent manslaughter (-47%) and aggravated assault (-43%). (It’s not possible to calculate the change in the rape rate during this period because the FBI revised its definition of the offense in 2013.) Meanwhile, the property crime rate fell 55%, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-69%), motor vehicle theft (-64%) and larceny/theft (-49%). Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those reported by the FBI. Per BJS, the overall violent crime rate fell 74% between 1993 and 2019, while the property crime rate fell 71%. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when the data shows it is down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:39:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Facts of the case
A California Highway Patrol officer observed a parked car “playing music very loudly,” and then the driver, Arthur Gregory Lange, honked the horn four or five times despite there being no other vehicles nearby. Finding this behavior unusual, the officer began following Lange, intending to conduct a traffic stop. After following Lange for several blocks, the officer activated his overhead lights, and Lange “failed to yield.” Lange turned into a driveway and drove into a garage. The officer followed and interrupted the closing garage door. When asked whether Lange had noticed the officer, Lange replied that he had not. Based on evidence obtained from this interaction, Lange was charged with two Vehicle Code misdemeanors and an infraction. Lange moved to suppress the evidence obtained in the garage. At the suppression hearing, the prosecutor argued that Lange committed a misdemeanor when he failed to stop after the officer activated his overhead lights and that the officer had probable cause to arrest Lange for this misdemeanor offense. Based on this probable cause, the prosecutor argued that exigent circumstances justified the officer’s warrantless entry into Lange’s garage. Lange’s attorney argued that a reasonable person in Lange's position would not have thought he was being detained when the officer activated his overhead lights, and the officer should not have entered Lange's garage without a warrant. The court denied Lange’s motion to suppress, and the appellate division affirmed. Lange pled no contest and then appealed the denial of his suppression motion a second time. The appellate division affirmed Lange's judgment of conviction. In the meantime, Lange filed a civil suit, asking the court to overturn the suspension of his license, and the civil court granted the petition after determining Lange's arrest was unlawful. The court reasoned that the “hot pursuit” doctrine did not justify the warrantless entry because when the officer entered Lange's garage, all the officer knew was that Lange had been playing his music too loudly and had honked his horn unnecessarily, which are infractions, not felonies. Based on the inconsistent findings of the courts, Lange petitioned for transfer to the California Court of Appeal, which concluded that Lange's arrest was lawful and affirmed the judgment of conviction. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How abused is the principle of pursuit of a suspect into a residence not requiring a search warrant? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The problem with this just like every other legal instrument we give our cops is it gets abused to the extent that courts have no choice but to take it away from you. How abused is the principle of pursuit of a suspect into a residence not requiring a search warrant? The public doesn’t want cops arresting criminals. They’d much rather have us worry about real crime like murders and rape. Which oddly enough are on the rise. I’m sure the two aren’t related. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:39:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How abused is the principle of pursuit of a suspect into a residence not requiring a search warrant? Apparently enough it got the supreme court’s attention |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:40:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. That's a wobbler around here. Quoted: Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. That's a wobbler around here. Quoted: Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. That's a wobbler around here. Quoted: I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Finally, a misdemeanor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:41:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The public doesn’t want cops arresting criminals. They’d much rather have us worry about real crime like murders and rape. Which oddly enough are on the rise. I’m sure the two aren’t related. FBI Report on Crime Shows Decline in Violent Crime Rate for Third Consecutive Year https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fbi-report-crime-shows-decline-violent-crime-rate-third-consecutive-year |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:41:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. It's almost like we should be empowering individuals to protect themselves and solve their own problems instead of relying on random strangers who work for the government to do act on their behalf. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:42:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told "sorry we can't help you." And criminals run free. I'd actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I'll smile and wave. Is it a lack of resources issue, or is it govt no longer caring about lower level crimes? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:42:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. In your DUI example, the victim would have a pretty good reason to be raising hell with the local media about the prosecutor's office if they won't bother to get a warrant. In your assault example, I can't even figure out what you mean by getting a warrant on your own. Are your local judges issuing letters of marque to victims to they can play vigilante? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:43:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not one of those examples you gave would stop police from filing for a probable cause warrant Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. Not one of those examples you gave would stop police from filing for a probable cause warrant California law had to be amended to even allow for search warrants for a misdemeanor to keep up with DUI case law changes. Most cops will never write a search warrant their entire career. ETA:I hope they rule for the 4th. But do so knowingly it’s unread able to expect to expect street cops to write search warrants for residences, especially on weekends and nights. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:43:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both the FBI and BJS data show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s, when crime spiked across much of the nation. Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2019, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-68%), murder/non-negligent manslaughter (-47%) and aggravated assault (-43%). (It’s not possible to calculate the change in the rape rate during this period because the FBI revised its definition of the offense in 2013.) Meanwhile, the property crime rate fell 55%, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-69%), motor vehicle theft (-64%) and larceny/theft (-49%). Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those reported by the FBI. Per BJS, the overall violent crime rate fell 74% between 1993 and 2019, while the property crime rate fell 71%. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when the data shows it is down. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. Both the FBI and BJS data show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s, when crime spiked across much of the nation. Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2019, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-68%), murder/non-negligent manslaughter (-47%) and aggravated assault (-43%). (It’s not possible to calculate the change in the rape rate during this period because the FBI revised its definition of the offense in 2013.) Meanwhile, the property crime rate fell 55%, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-69%), motor vehicle theft (-64%) and larceny/theft (-49%). Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those reported by the FBI. Per BJS, the overall violent crime rate fell 74% between 1993 and 2019, while the property crime rate fell 71%. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when the data shows it is down. That’s all true and it’s all relative. It’s 2021 now, not 2019. When these stats come out, it’ll be uncomfortable. Our robbery and car jackings are up 59% last I saw. Which reminds me lock your doors or at least take the key inside with you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:44:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both the FBI and BJS data show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s, when crime spiked across much of the nation. Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2019, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-68%), murder/non-negligent manslaughter (-47%) and aggravated assault (-43%). (It’s not possible to calculate the change in the rape rate during this period because the FBI revised its definition of the offense in 2013.) Meanwhile, the property crime rate fell 55%, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-69%), motor vehicle theft (-64%) and larceny/theft (-49%). Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those reported by the FBI. Per BJS, the overall violent crime rate fell 74% between 1993 and 2019, while the property crime rate fell 71%. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/ Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when the data shows it is down. Speaking of the area I work in; property crime is higher than in the past. A part of the reason you might see what looks like a decrease in property crime stars by the feds is how crime is reported. Example; in the past if 15 cars were broken into in a parking lot that was 15 different reports. Now those 15 incidents are put on a single report. In some places an attempted break-in his classified as damage to property. So I'd take some of those stats with a grain of salt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:45:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. Your entire post is bullshit and jackboot justifications. Fuck all of it. If you cared about crime you’d get a fucking law degree and run for DA. The problem isn’t enforcement tools, of which you have too many and are far overreaching, the problem is the invasion of Marxist DAs and to a lessor extant judges that don’t keep the minority of people who commit the worst crimes in jail. Stop trying to justify stomping on peoples rights and the constitution. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:46:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: 'Everything Has Been Criminalized,' Says Neil Gorsuch as He Pushes for Stronger Fourth Amendment Protections In 2019, the California Court of Appeal, 1st Appellate District, ruled that a police offer may always enter a suspect's home without a warrant if the officer is in pursuit of the suspect and has probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a misdemeanor. This week, the U.S. Supreme Court considered whether that ruling should be overturned. Justice Neil Gorsuch seemed to have a problem with the lower court's decision. Under the common law, Gorsuch pointed out during oral arguments in Lange v. California, the police did not "have the power to enter the home in pursuit of any and all misdemeanor crimes." The framers of the Fourth Amendment built on that common law understanding. So "why would we create a rule that is less protective than what everyone understands to be the case of the Fourth Amendment as original matter?" You mean like when the State of New York wants to see your taxes so they can go on a fishing expedition? Like that, Neil? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:46:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. Not one of those examples you gave would stop police from filing for a probable cause warrant There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. I have no idea where you work, how big your department is, etc but around here cops have tons of free time to sit around and do nothing. Whenever anything actually happens they come from all over the place to stand around. Of course I don’t live in the hood. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:47:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now convince Alito of that, he's always willing to give the police every power they ask for. Kharn |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:48:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In your assault example, I can't even figure out what you mean by getting a warrant on your own. Are your local judges issuing letters of marque to victims to they can play vigilante? In some places victims have to apply for warrant for misdemeanor offenses, not the police |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:49:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And in that effort to balance competing interests, you err on the side of the constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. And in that effort to balance competing interests, you err on the side of the constitution. That is part of the problem. The bigger part however, is the government, and the people have allowed it to happen, has criminalized self defense, defense of property, and legitimate cases of let's call it - fighting back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:50:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. There’s a movement afoot to declare all conservatives terrorists. Be mindful of that when there’s a discussion of criminal justice matters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We could dream up a legal system where criminals got a hell of lot less protection, and warrants weren't needed at all. I've been in a bunch of countries that had that, and I'm thankful that we're not there yet here. It does save a lot of time to be a police officer in China, Myanmar, etc. In your DUI example, the victim would have a pretty good reason to be raising hell with the local media about the prosecutor's office if they won't bother to get a warrant. In your assault example, I can't even figure out what you mean by getting a warrant on your own. Are your local judges issuing letters of marque to victims to they can play vigilante? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. In your DUI example, the victim would have a pretty good reason to be raising hell with the local media about the prosecutor's office if they won't bother to get a warrant. In your assault example, I can't even figure out what you mean by getting a warrant on your own. Are your local judges issuing letters of marque to victims to they can play vigilante? When I was still in, refusing the (misdemeanor) DUI chemical test resulted in a jury instruction that you refused because you had something to hide and knew it. Forced blood draws were only available in vehicular assault/vehicular homicide (reckless or DUI, resulting in serious bodily injury or death). Warrants weren't required then but it was also a lot harder to get a judge on the phone in the 1990's than it is now. In one or two states, John Q. Public can go to the court to file charges without going to the PD first. For some reason, Virginia comes to mind. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:54:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it a lack of resources issue, or is it govt no longer caring about lower level crimes? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told "sorry we can't help you." And criminals run free. I'd actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I'll smile and wave. Is it a lack of resources issue, or is it govt no longer caring about lower level crimes? Both. It takes (here) about 2 years to go from applicant to solo officer. We can’t fill positions as fast as people are leaving. We could have all the money in the world but if there’s no one to do the work it’s not getting done. So as there are less and less people to do more and more work the work piles up and so things get triaged. A good example. We recently got body cams. Now the prosecutors are getting frustrated for a few reasons. They can’t simply say “well there’s not enough evidence to support this charge” and nolle something. Now there’s plenty of evidence, so more cases are going to pleas/trials. The flip side is that they can’t fast forward through a video and there will be 4 cops all with body cams for a 4 hour call plus in car cameras. That video all has to be watched. That’s just the video evidence. Never mind the witness statements, forensic reports, interviews (also video) as well. Before they’d come to court and read a report and make a decision in 30 minutes. We were backed up with cases then. Now covid, more crime and the body cams. It’s bananas upstairs. Anyway, hopefully that answered your question. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:57:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. It isn't protecting criminals over victims, it's protecting fundamental rights against overzealous government agents. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 5:59:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a movement afoot to declare all conservatives terrorists. Be mindful of that when there’s a discussion of criminal justice matters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. There’s a movement afoot to declare all conservatives terrorists. Be mindful of that when there’s a discussion of criminal justice matters. I know. Believe me I know. But that won’t affect misdemeanors. I’m talking about wanting to empower people who have been victimized by career criminals, can’t stand up for themselves and get forgotten about by the system. Anything the democrats aim at conservatives will be a felony I’m sure you know that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:00:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem with this just like every other legal instrument we give our cops is it gets abused to the extent that courts have no choice but to take it away from you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. The problem with this just like every other legal instrument we give our cops is it gets abused to the extent that courts have no choice but to take it away from you.  Attached FileThat’s going to trigger some feels |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:01:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. Bolded the key part for you. It *really* sucks that law enforcement is so busy that my stuff getting stolen from my house doesn't rise to the importance of doing some extra paperwork to actually arrest the criminal and get my stuff back. But who made that decision? Who decided "it's not worth the effort?" Certainly not the victim. There is a legal, constitutional way to get into somebody's house. Its *supposed* to take time and extra effort - it was designed that way to help keep it from being abused. People whine about cops trying to circumvent the 4th amendment, but those same people don't want to hire enough cops to actually be able to investigate crimes the right way, without triaging cases or cutting corners to make stuff go away. It *also* sucks that most of GD would cry foul if you even stepped off the public sidewalk to knock on the guy's door to see if he would just give me my stuff back. GD: "a cop knocking on your door or trying to talk to you is trespassing and an infringment." Also GD: "a cop chasing a criminal into his house is trespassing and an infringment." Also GD: "cops shouldn't be wasting their time getting search warrants for piddly crimes like larceny." Also GD: "Crime is out of control because liberals wont let cops arrest bad guys!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:02:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of the area I work in; property crime is higher than in the past. A part of the reason you might see what looks like a decrease in property crime stars by the feds is how crime is reported. Example; in the past if 15 cars were broken into in a parking lot that was 15 different reports. Now those 15 incidents are put on a single report. In some places an attempted break-in his classified as damage to property. So I'd take some of those stats with a grain of salt. Juking the stats. Crime is through the roof in lots of places. Some places are turning a blind eye or severely downplaying it everyday. I can attest for DC and provide many, many examples of how it has become even more of a shit show there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:04:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know. Believe me I know. But that won’t affect misdemeanors. I’m talking about wanting to empower people who have been victimized by career criminals, can’t stand up for themselves and get forgotten about by the system. Anything the democrats aim at conservatives will be a felony I’m sure you know that. They’ll use whatever they can. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:05:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They aren't criminals. They are people who are innocent until the State can prove them guilty. I am not sorry that it takes some effort to do that. And I say that as someone who once had to do that in courtrooms. It is supposed to be hard to convict people of crimes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it's not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here's your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here's your report number. Well if you'd like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don't have his driver's license or ID so I can't really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here's the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. LE: "but muh criminal-lovin' judges. Goddamn pesky 4th Amendment!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:06:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In some places victims have to apply for warrant for misdemeanor offenses, not the police Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In your assault example, I can't even figure out what you mean by getting a warrant on your own. Are your local judges issuing letters of marque to victims to they can play vigilante? In some places victims have to apply for warrant for misdemeanor offenses, not the police Bingo. We get called and have to proofread an affidavit. Anyone can swear out a warrant. It’s one of those things where when people say they should get the same treatment as police, they do. And quite frankly people seem to hate it. No one wants to get punched in the face walking down the street then have to figure out who punched them, then go write up what happened, tell some fat dude what happened, fill out more paperwork, go find the guy, fight him again then come back and hand the paperwork back to the same fat dude then have to take off work to come to court a month or two later to tell a different fat dude what happened. Get called a liar by the assholes lawyer (which he didn’t pay for but you are) and watch all that work get dismissed. Welcome to my world, but at least I get paid for it. Victims are like grease to the wheels of the system and it’s sad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:10:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorsuch is probably the strongest defender of individual liberties on the court even if it means re-writing the civil rights act to ban discrimination against gays and trans kennedy was the same way, and he used that as an excuse to amend the constitution to his liking |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:10:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. Just because someone chooses to be a victim doesn't mean the State is responsible for correcting the problem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:12:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They aren't criminals. They are people who are innocent until the State can prove them guilty. By this standard then all the “protestors” you see setting fires, assaulting people, etc aren’t criminals, correct? The guy seen on video murdering someone isn’t a criminal, correct? For most people; whether someone is convicted in court or not doesnt determine if a person is a criminal or not.....it’s that person committing a crime that gets that label put on them |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:13:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is fun to explain to a victim of a DUI hit and run that it’s not worth the time to get a warrant for the person, then a blood draw warrant so here’s your case number, good luck with insurance. Sorry about your purse and cellphone he made it inside that home. Here’s your report number. Well if you’d like him to stop following your kids you can hire a PI and a lawyer. He lives right there. I know he attacked you but I don’t have his driver’s license or ID so I can’t really help you. You can get a warrant on your own here’s the courthouse address. Plenty of crimes against a person are misdemeanors like theft from a person, assault and battery, harassment etc and a lot of businesses get fucked too with thefts, shoplifting etc. Bottom line is everything has to be balanced and this push to protect criminals over victims will have to tip over before it gets rightened again. Just hang on for the ride. The problem with this just like every other legal instrument we give our cops is it gets abused to the extent that courts have no choice but to take it away from you. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hes_right_you_know-328.jpg That’s going to trigger some feels Not really. If things are being abused they should be taken away. The problem is everything gets taken away when one case makes it through. One apple spoils the bunch remember? Kinda like how there’s always a push to take guns away when one person uses them improperly. Maybe the issue is take tools from specific people and organizations and not an entire community. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just because someone chooses to be a victim doesn't mean the State is responsible for correcting the problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There’s not enough time between calls for that. Crime is already on the rise. A lot of victims are just told “sorry we can’t help you.” And criminals run free. I’d actually like to help people out. Oh well. I suppose I’ll smile and wave. Just because someone chooses to be a victim doesn't mean the State is responsible for correcting the problem. People don’t choose to be victims. Not all people anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:17:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facts of the case A California Highway Patrol officer observed a parked car "playing music very loudly," and then the driver, Arthur Gregory Lange, honked the horn four or five times despite there being no other vehicles nearby. Finding this behavior unusual, the officer began following Lange, intending to conduct a traffic stop. After following Lange for several blocks, the officer activated his overhead lights, and Lange "failed to yield." Lange turned into a driveway and drove into a garage. The officer followed and interrupted the closing garage door. When asked whether Lange had noticed the officer, Lange replied that he had not. Based on evidence obtained from this interaction, Lange was charged with two Vehicle Code misdemeanors and an infraction. Lange moved to suppress the evidence obtained in the garage. At the suppression hearing, the prosecutor argued that Lange committed a misdemeanor when he failed to stop after the officer activated his overhead lights and that the officer had probable cause to arrest Lange for this misdemeanor offense. Based on this probable cause, the prosecutor argued that exigent circumstances justified the officer's warrantless entry into Lange's garage. Lange's attorney argued that a reasonable person in Lange's position would not have thought he was being detained when the officer activated his overhead lights, and the officer should not have entered Lange's garage without a warrant. The court denied Lange's motion to suppress, and the appellate division affirmed. Lange pled no contest and then appealed the denial of his suppression motion a second time. The appellate division affirmed Lange's judgment of conviction. In the meantime, Lange filed a civil suit, asking the court to overturn the suspension of his license, and the civil court granted the petition after determining Lange's arrest was unlawful. The court reasoned that the "hot pursuit" doctrine did not justify the warrantless entry because when the officer entered Lange's garage, all the officer knew was that Lange had been playing his music too loudly and had honked his horn unnecessarily, which are infractions, not felonies. Based on the inconsistent findings of the courts, Lange petitioned for transfer to the California Court of Appeal, which concluded that Lange's arrest was lawful and affirmed the judgment of conviction.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:17:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorsuch is probably the strongest defender of individual liberties on the court |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2021 6:24:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Juking the stats. Crime is through the roof in lots of places. Some places are turning a blind eye or severely downplaying it everyday. I can attest for DC and provide many, many examples of how it has become even more of a shit show there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Speaking of the area I work in; property crime is higher than in the past. A part of the reason you might see what looks like a decrease in property crime stars by the feds is how crime is reported. Example; in the past if 15 cars were broken into in a parking lot that was 15 different reports. Now those 15 incidents are put on a single report. In some places an attempted break-in his classified as damage to property. So I'd take some of those stats with a grain of salt. Juking the stats. Crime is through the roof in lots of places. Some places are turning a blind eye or severely downplaying it everyday. I can attest for DC and provide many, many examples of how it has become even more of a shit show there. DC is ridiculous and the surrounding areas are being infected too. But there’s lots of nice restaurants. Well...there were. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
