You don't have any character development when you kill the character in the same episode that you introduce him.
From a show standpoint the only reason for the episode was to stuff gayness though our tv's. There was nothing in the entire episode that had anything to do with the game except for the truck at the end.

If they would not have killed off Bill and had him help them get through his city and find a battery for the truck in the next episode it would have made sense to have episode 3. Yeah skipped a big part of the game
but introduced Bill for no reason.

Wow, you got a point there.  LOL I liked the episode (thank god for FF) but now it doesn't make much sense.

Maybe further down the line, there'll be some relevance?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every firearm handled by a character has been a firearm that can be used in game. (maybe not the pistol Ellie takes at the end of the episode).

Tess had a commander size 1911.

Joel's revolver (Taurus?)

Fedra M4

Bill's shotgun and scoped bolt gun

All those were in game usable weapons.

That would be hilarious!

Correct. Anticipate more of the crafted items to come into play at some point.

It wasn't character development for Bill, it was character development for Joel. Bill was an avatar, representing Joel's eventual change into being protective and caring. Also, Bill was gay in the video game too.

Bill and Frank was an allegory for Joel's changing attitude towards Ellie, specifically with Bill telling Joel to use the equipment to protect Tess. Which Joel obviously failed at. Tess wanted Joel to protect Ellie. Joel reflects on this while he is standing in the yard with the letter, coupled with the flashback about Joel's daughter right before he beat the soldier to death.

In the game, it took Joel far longer to actually care and want to protect Ellie. That change was a major part of the story in the game.

It was an overly long and overly wrought allegory granted, but from a story telling perspective it's purpose was to prevent the appearance of Joel just suddenly giving a shit about Ellie in episode 4/5.

At least a few people seem to understand this.

But you're showing a lot of stuff that Joel never saw. It would have been more believable, and relevant, if Bill had explained that in words during their first meeting with Tess.  Showing the audience a bunch of stuff Joel never saw doesn't help build Joel's character.

i want a FEDRA patch now for my chest rig

Ah, I disagree. A few takeaways.

No matter how well prepared, lack of advanced medical will limit your years.

Having a purpose beyond surviving for the sake of surviving.

We also realize how long Tess and Joel were together through this flashback.

Bill's bunker was cool AF also.

Thanks!!!

You guys have no idea how much you've helped me enjoy shows and movies more.  Your insights and knowledge is as good if not better than analyses by professional critics!

It was explained via dialogue, scenes and flashbacks over episodes 2 and 3, involving the various people.

A large part of the game story is Joel changing from this cold, uncaring father that lost his daughter, to legitimately loving and caring about Ellie as if she was his daughter. The good she could do as a means of redemption for the horrible shit he had done in the past. In his own mind, he believed he had many things to atone for and maybe Ellie could be that vehicle. That was never going to be an easy thing to translate to the limited runtime of TV using the interactions of only Joel and Ellie. The turning point for Joel really wasn't evident for a few more hours and further into the game.

For the TV show, my assessment is that the expanded completely rewritten character story of Bill and Frank is an analogy of Joel and his (changing)attitude towards Ellie. It's mentioned multiple times both by dialogue and in the letter that Bill and Joel are similar(uncaring about the world until someone came along and showed that life, even now, could have more to offer as per the letter) .
Tess's death and pleading to Joel to get Ellie west(similar to the game) the previous episode, changing Frank's note(in the game) to a letter from Bill to Joel and Bill telling Joel to use the equipment protect Tess. In the show, Joel standing outside with the letter is clearly indicating Joel having a moment of reflection/introspection about Tess. That even though he failed to protect her, Joel could still protect Ellie.

Joel's flashback to his daughter's death right before he beat the guard to death to save Ellie. So there were hints of that protective instinct, it just needed to be consciously realized by Joel, himself. Which was him standing out in the yard with the letter.

I'm not a big fan of major rewrites like this, minor ones are usually fine. For example(in the game), in Boston Tess held off FEDRA troops so Joel and Ellie could escape instead of holding off the infected. Narratively, they are the same; Tess doesn't want to turn, she implores Joel to get Ellie west and to go to Bill and Frank's and sacrifices herself which Joel blames Ellie for.

Not sure what else to say, it's pretty obvious to me. Joel and Tess knew Bill and Frank for years and years and well enough for Bill to give Joel the gate codes.

However, I'll concede that dramatic irony and anagnorisis, in the vein of Greek tragedy's is not common in TV shows.

Yup--I agree.

Man, you can find "Weyland-Yutani" "Umbrella Corp" "Racoon City PD" patches galore but no "FEDRA" patches!  How bizarre is that???

As I've mentioned in this thread twice now, Episode 3 and Bill and Frank make zero sense isolated in the confines of the TV show. For that reason, I think it was a waste of screen time.

I accept it though as a screenwriter trying to translate an hours long, slowly developing major plot point from a game to fit into a TV show with time budget.

Well said.

I remember seeing them when the first game was pretty popular. Maybe 9 years ago? I think they'll come back with the series being popular.

Comparatively, Aliens and Resident Evil are far bigger and more popular franchises.

Even in the game Tess was bit. It was a bit of a plot rewrite granted with the infected and the underground Cordyceps network but I can live with that. It isn't like they had Tess go Rambo on waves of infected or FEDRA troops.



In the end Tess's death advanced the story the same way Tess's death advanced the story in game

I agree with all that.  I just think the scene was too long for a character that's now dead. When I watched it, I thought the scene should have been ten minutes.  After seeing the ending and realizing the foreshadowing, I conceded to twenty minutes. Nine episodes so we're a third of the way through.  Time is precious in television.  If this was a book chapter I'd have no complaints.

I'm reminded of the gay cop from the second season of True Detective.  They spent so much time with his storyline and he turned out to be a minor character.  Because they wasted so much time, I didn't start sympathizing with the main characters until episode 6 of 8.  That's a problem.  Any cop detective story is centered around the relationship between the partners.  We need to like and sympathize with them or it doesn't work.  Right now, we're a third of the way through and we don't know jack about Elle, and that's a huge problem and you can see it by the comments in this thread. People don't really like her yet.  

"I agree with all that.  I just think the scene was too long for a character that's now dead. When I watched it, I thought the scene should have been ten minutes.  After seeing the ending and realizing the foreshadowing, I conceded to twenty minutes. Nine episodes so we're a third of the way through.  Time is precious in television.  If this was a book chapter I'd have no complaints."

I agree with this. I think that is where the kudos from Hollywood kicked in and led to excessive runtime for what it was trying to convey.

More nude Thandie!!!!! Fucking Westworld, got all righteous....get the snatch back on screen

From the perspective of a non game player, the dramatic arc of the episode was fine. It was a portrayal of the passage of decades inherent in the story line and the "dying of the light" of age.
As a character arc the implication is in your face clear: gayness is the norm. Men will be gay in the absence of women, therefore it's not a choice.
It was intended to be "transgressive" and illuminating to us troglodytes: "You are a dick sucking cornholer in waiting."
Next up, Joel, having lost his access to Tess' pussy, will(necessarily) start fucking Ellie. Because being a MAP is normal too.

Horseshit.  You think they were taking a risk?

Try this on for size: What would have happened if HBO had re-imagined Bill and Frank as a heterosexual couple?
THAT would have been taking a risk.

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They just wanted everyone to endure 2 homos smooching and being gay. There is no deeper meaning than that. It’s the same old “put some fags in everything” so people will think it’s normal. It’s to poison the peoples mind. Just look at some of the posts here in the thread. Some posters  accept it, some embrace it. Others think it’s beautiful and special. It’s sick shit. It did nothing to enhance or further the plot line. It’s just there to desensitize your brain.

Awesome!!!

It's literally a variation the source material.

man i knew this thread was gonna get blown up after ep3 lol

Nowadays, that's a safe bet!

The game did not have me endure two homos making out and snuggling nude in a bed. Nor did it have all those weird ass domestic issues between two gay dudes in the apocalypse.

It was done to for the simple reason of they want you to think it’s the norm. It did not have to be put in the show for it to make sense or progress.

Agree to disagree I guess.

To me it was clear that he wasn’t in his right mind at that moment. Obviously he had been making right decisions for 20 years because his was still there. This time he slipped up, or he more likely “broke” after all of that time and made a poor decision and was in rage mode.

It was evident by the fact that Frank was the one with some logic and reason who was ducking for cover while trying to convince him to come back inside. He was aware that Bill wasn’t in his right mind.

Some people just break and make bad decisions. If he shot at the bad guys from heavy cover with the FAL then he wouldn’t have gotten shot and there wouldn’t have been drama.

Yeah I'm expecting Joel to be using the shotgun in episode 4 at least once in episode 4 as a nod to Bill giving you one in the game.

Still it would seem odd if Joel doesn't take at least one rifle.

There are 3 AR type rifles, an AUG and an M1 Carbine in addition to the FAL in Bill's collection, he's gotta take something!

How much would it cost to have a sub basement like that

It would be a bitch to carry cases and cases of ammo up or down there.  He needed a hidden lift too.  

E03, for me, was quite good in a number of ways once the urge to cringe passed. I have essentially no reference to the game so the story and plot and character development is all new to me. I found the most egregious parts, aside from the obvious, was Bill's unforgivable teacupping and exposing himself in the middle of the street to pick raiders off along the fenceline.

When you examine Bill's character after the episode with all the subtle little quirks and all, I believe he'd always been gay, even prior to the world going to shit. A big part of the genesis of his character was a heavy dose of self-loathing and hate which explains his sanguine, casual attitude once the SHTF.

I think one of the more cruel twists would've been for Frank to betray his trust and confidence in the beginning while he was showering to take him for everything he had and make him feel silly and ashamed for falling for a honeypot. That's what I was waiting for and what seems obvious but in the end, Frank wasn't that way whatsoever, which allowed Bill to fully embrace who he always was. It really is a good episode if you're able to see it from this perspective, but I kinda get why people complain about it being a wasted episode in the context of the main plot with Joel and Ellie. In the end, I find Joel's loose ties to Bill and Frank good enough for it to have affected Joel's outlook on life and his growing commitment to protecting Ellie.

Other thread is going off the rails, hopefully we can actually discuss the show in this one.

While it is easy to critique Bill's standoff scene against the raiders, they did do a decent job on the bunker items

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I see some powder, ammo boxes, a reloading manual. Pretty cool. I think I see CFE223, did it exist in 2003?

Once again, if you have to make up your own backstory in your head to justify a character’s actions, it’s a poorly crafted story.

There isn’t a nothing at all to justify that, unless you make something up yourself.

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Share that shit in the other thread. They will be more than happy to discuss it at length.

Or do you like the show?

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1st and 2nd episode was pretty good IMO.  3rd episode was poorly done and the writing was awful due to stuffing 20 pounds of agenda into a 10 pound sack.

The one gay dude was on this show. (The White Lotus)

I took me a few to recognize him.

Here you go.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/The-Last-of-Us/5-2620211/

You’ll be in good company

Episode 3 is my favorite. As a Father and Husband, it really hit me. All about being gruff, tough, etc.... all to protect those you love. Again, I enjoyed it. Bill had his reason for living and living wasn't about just sucking air. Frank gave him purpose.

Nice.

Oh Thank God.