wow, the used car market is totally out of whack right now - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - wow, the used car market is totally out of whack right now (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 9/23/2011 6:55:17 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I've noticed that too looking for a used Vette. Maybe I should trade in, or sell privately, my mint condition, low mileage 2005 diesel truck?

What are you going to replace it with? Another overpriced used vehicle, or an overpriced new vehicle?

Posted: 9/23/2011 6:57:52 AM EDT

[#2]

This is an easy one: it ain't as easy to get a low interest loan on a $35k purchase that you really don't need.

Furthermore,cars are simply built too well to actually NEED replacement every 5 years these days so there is less incentive to go back into debt - we will leave aside the level of personal debt Americans have on average as well as the job situation. Most reasonably well maintained 5 year old Accords and Camrys are stupendously reliable cars.For that matter,most 10 year old versions that have at least had oil changes and don't live in the rust belt are still very reliable cars. Even when it comes to small things like an alternator replacement or 02 sensors,that's still cheaper than a car payment.

I couldn't imagine going in the hole $30k again for a people mover but I will eventually need something to replace my 00 C230 Mercedes I've been driving for a decade. It's falling apart on the interior and rusting around the sun roof and doors but is still reliable. When it's time for it to go,I'll search out an Accord down South and be happy.

*** I still have a 1995 Nissan 240SX as a winter beater. The rockers are starting to go but the thing runs like an absolute top and the only repairs I've ever had to make are a washer pump and rebuild the brake calipers. At very best,it's worth maybe $1500 but if I subtract that from what it cost,it was less than $1000 per year for me to own the thing. That beats the shit out of a $400 per month lease or note.Yes,I have a RWD sporty car for a winter beater

Posted: 9/23/2011 6:59:22 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Being in the business, this is true but there is a downside to it as well.

The bulk of trade-ins we are getting are not suitable for resale. People are hanging on to vehicles much longer, and doing what they can to keep them running until it is no longer feasable. We are regularly getting trades with 250,000+ Kms on the odometer, took in a Silverado last week with 478K's. High mileage vehicles are not financeable, nor can any sort of warranty be offered, so we wholesale these units out , mostly to recyclers.

Finding a good low mileage used car/truck is very difficult these days, but as a business that is all we will sell.

Everybody likes the experience of owning a new vehicle, but when finances dictate otherwise, near new mint condition used is just as satisfying.

Yes, and quite profitable.

What is a "Kms"?

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:03:54 AM EDT

[#4]

Kilometers, sorry about that.

To convert to miles, mulitply the Kms by .62 .

250,000 Kms X .62 = 155,000 Miles.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:04:40 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Yep, and I'm looking to sell my truck soon.

2002 Silverado 1500, 74,000 miles, V6....wonder how much I can get?

Truck market is down

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:07:38 AM EDT

[#6]

both bad & good for me.. looking to sell my 2008 wrx and getting another truck or suv. 4runner trail edition is what I'm getting but damn that 40,000 price tag....... granted i guess i dont really need tvs in the headrests & such

I was looking up the value of my car and was quite pleased to see it's still rather high considering i owe nothing on it.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:07:47 AM EDT

[#7]

Thank you nObama for your wonderfully successful Cash For Clunkers.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:11:14 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd love a new car, but $35,000+ for a new car is just rediculous. I think Honda is the only car maker that makes a excellent quality/reliability car for close to what they were selling 10 years ago. I thought a used car would save me a few bucks, and at least with the BMW's I have been looking at there is very little decrease. I mean a used 2008 M3 with 80k mi is still asking over $40,000. Lower the mileage to something more acceptable and you are looking at $50,000 after ttl. There is just no way spending that kind of money on a car is worth it considering when you drive around on these Houston freeways you tear your car up.

If you leave the BMW lot I think you will find a lot of choices for well under 30,000.

Did Ford start making M3's?

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:14:23 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Good friend runs a Toyota repair shop.He is doing well rebuilding/repairing 10-15 yr old cars. He says its simple math: $3-5K engine/transmission overhaul vs $20-30K for a used two year old car of the same quality. Even the folks who can afford it won't spend the $ for a new one. Basic distrust in the future.

Overall, the fleet is aging.

I know a lot of people who are doing exactly what you said. Economic uncertainty is keeping people from saddling themselves with 3-6 years of car payments.

Double edged sword for somebody like me, who is debating purchasing a new(er) truck. One one hand, my current truck is worth exactly what I paid for it 7 years and 100,000 miles ago. On the other hand, I have seen the average price for what I am looking at buying shoot up about 10% just in the last 2-3 months and clean examples of what I am looking for are scarce. See tons of them on the road but few for sale.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:14:26 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Kilometers, sorry about that.

To convert to miles, mulitply the Kms by .62 .

250,000 Kms X .62 = 155,000 Miles.

You realize we can never fully trust Canucks, right?

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:20:22 AM EDT

[#11]

As long as my yearly repair costs stay under 3k a year I'm better off keeping my car its still cheaper than making a payment on a new one. The used market pissed me off too. in june I picked up a 2001 ford escape with 117k miles for 7k that just seems high to me. But I did get 1500 trade on my escape that had 300,045miles and the wheel was about to fall off cause the ball joints were bad haha. It was getting to the point where I knew my repairs were going to exceed the worth so I got rid of it. That and I didn't have the money to fix it.

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Posted: 9/23/2011 7:28:26 AM EDT

[#12]

All the cars I would buy weren't even eligible in the cash for clunkers program.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:31:18 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.

Try buying a used Prius these days. That market is on fire.

Gen II's going for new Gen III money. It's ridonculous.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:34:15 AM EDT

[#14]

I was recently on a used car hunt and found the same thing. Gone are the deals where a 2 or 3 year lease turn in was worth buying (for the most part). Used cars are demanding higher prices than in the past and even with damage or high miles. Dealers aren't cleaning them up as much either because they are selling even when they look like crap (and have animal crap in them).

As others said it is almost worth buying new on some models because four year old used cars of the same model are commanding only a few thousand off the new models.

However I ended up finding a good deal mostly by watching a few dealers and being somewhat aggressive watching what they took in on trade-ins. Since they made a good deal (i.e. probably ripped off previous owner) on a trade-in and didn't have to get the car from auction I did OK when I bought it. There wasn't as much negotiating room because they were already selling me a car at a lower price than ones that were older and had higher mileage.

Trucks seem to be ho-hum but even some of them are really holding their value.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:39:07 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.

Yup. Regardless of whether the reason for this is decreased supply due to "cash for clunkers" or increased demand due to less money out there chasing cars (likely a combination of both), the end result is that those who can afford new, see a lot less incentive to buy used. I bought our last car new - the few thousand I would save otherwise was not worth the few less years of life, uncertainty of how it was treated, etc. of used. It wasn't at all like when I bought my last truck at nearly half the cost of a new one. We might have to get another vehicle again - and I have been looking at prices a lot - looks like new still makes the most sense. Your mileage may vary.

This. It's always necessary to know what costs you are paying, and where you utility will come.
Many times, if you are buying 2-3 years old, you might be better off with new.
You have to do the analysis or you could lose thousands.

TXL

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:44:51 AM EDT

[#16]

I agree. I have been looking around for a beater car. Before Cash for Clunkers you could easily find old Honda's etc that actually did get great gas mileage for cheap cheap. Now you can find a 1994 Honda Accord for no less than $5K. Thats absurd. Thats like $2000 less than my step brothers dad paid for his car in 1998. He had a 1994 Honda Accord EX.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:46:14 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
As long as my yearly repair costs stay under 3k a year I'm better off keeping my car its still cheaper than making a payment on a new one. The used market pissed me off too. in june I picked up a 2001 ford escape with 117k miles for 7k that just seems high to me. But I did get 1500 trade on my escape that had 300,045miles and the wheel was about to fall off cause the ball joints were bad haha. It was getting to the point where I knew my repairs were going to exceed the worth so I got rid of it. That and I didn't have the money to fix it.

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That is where I am at with an 2004 with 144K on it.. It is loaded and would cost 30K to replace. That would be around 500 per month at zero interest plus full coverage insurance.. It seems to get me for $1500 the last several years in repairs and I am going to get every mile out of that fucker. My 13th or 14 Nissan

We have 3 now, great value.

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:48:34 AM EDT

[#18]

what I don't understand is on cars that are about a year or two old people are paying as much as a new car?

Posted: 9/23/2011 7:53:02 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
what I don't understand is on cars that are about a year or two old people are paying as much as a new car?

Jeeps are high a hell and are way up there for the most repaired award. I looked and ended up buying a used Xterra and saved 6K over a comparable Jeep.

Posted: 9/23/2011 8:08:31 AM EDT

[#20]

In Cuba, most folks drive cars from the 50's. They seem to keep them running forever down there. I envy their ability to keep those cars going. I wish I could keep my truck going for the next 25 years. I'm sick of playing the car payment gain. We haven't had car payments in 5 years now. I believe our cars will last at least 10-12 more years.

Posted: 9/23/2011 8:19:41 AM EDT

[#21]

So what should my strategy be?

I have a 2007 Toyota Sienna minivan with about 60K miles that I would like to replace because the kids are older and a minivan isn't as necessary as it once was.

Should I sell it now, then buy a new car (probably a Tahoe)?

Or should I hold on to it?

Posted: 9/23/2011 8:19:56 AM EDT

[#22]

I have a 2000 Sonoma with a bad clutch, sagging drivers door and in need of a brake job.

It's 4cyl and standard cab which means its literally the size of a medium sized ammo can inside.

I started looking at 03-07 Colorado 4 doors and a few others. 80k+ miles and they want $15-18,000???

Uh thanks, but no thanks. I'll Flintstone that Sumbitch to a stop before I drop that kinda change on a half worn out pickup for work.

Posted: 9/23/2011 8:38:17 AM EDT

[#23]

Just sold our 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited with 178,000 for 8500

Posted: 9/23/2011 8:51:41 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
So what should my strategy be?

I have a 2007 Toyota Sienna minivan with about 60K miles that I would like to replace because the kids are older and a minivan isn't as necessary as it once was.

Should I sell it now, then buy a new car (probably a Tahoe)?

Or should I hold on to it?

It's a good time to sell used cars, and a good time to buy new ones.

You have a used car you would like to sell, and you'd like to buy a new one.

Do I have that right?

Posted: 9/23/2011 8:58:14 AM EDT

[#25]

I bought an F250 V10 with low mileage, 4x4, and extra cab. It's really nice, and I paid the guy cash for it. It doesn't get good mileage, but I don't care. It's big and I feel protected. Plus, I can haul something if I want, or just go out to some offroad places and go exploring. I HATE small vehicles. I had a 2004 ranger with 72000 miles. Sold it for 5k and never looked back. Those things SUCK. Got 17 mpg and was small as all get out. I'm keeping my truck until I find something else I like, and if I do, I'll pay cash for that stuff. Car payments are yucky.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:00:46 AM EDT

[#26]

In addition to cash for clunkers, the tsunami has also had a huge effect on the market for used cars over the past few months.

Lack of components has effected both foreign and domestic production to a tremendous degree. Toyota was able to ramp production back up very quickly, but certain ECM components are just impossible to find. There were many cottage industries that were the sole producers of necessary parts on Japan's north coast for ALL manufacturers.

My understanding is that there was a single producer for one of the pigments used in making paint for the colors red and black, and that company was just gone...no one to pick up the slack.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:08:29 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.

Yup. Regardless of whether the reason for this is decreased supply due to "cash for clunkers" or increased demand due to less money out there chasing cars (likely a combination of both), the end result is that those who can afford new, see a lot less incentive to buy used. I bought our last car new - the few thousand I would save otherwise was not worth the few less years of life, uncertainty of how it was treated, etc. of used. It wasn't at all like when I bought my last truck at nearly half the cost of a new one. We might have to get another vehicle again - and I have been looking at prices a lot - looks like new still makes the most sense. Your mileage may vary.

Were in this dilemma right now. Why buy a certified or a used car when you can get a new one with a lower APR for almost the same price?

We might just wait until the 2012 Prii start landing in December.

Hopefully her car can make it that long.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:10:30 AM EDT

[#28]

No one wants to buy new (or can afford to). There is a glut of buyers in the used market.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:10:49 AM EDT

[#29]

I hear it is the overpaid teachers buying all of the 20+ year old used Porsches that have driven demand up.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:20:21 AM EDT

[#30]

My GF just traded in her 06 Mariner (needed new engine soon, but not immediate, timing chain making nasty noises and burning a ton of oil; quoted $4500 to replace but Carmax did not notice either) and 10k for an 07 Kia Rondo (sticker 15k). Suffice to say, I advised against it every step of the way but she "didn't feel safe" in the Mariner. Carmax drank her milkshake on that deal, Rondos on CL in our area are like 9k...

Kharn

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Posted: 9/23/2011 9:32:20 AM EDT

[#31]

About 2 weeks ago I was rear ended driving my 2002 Chevy Cavilier. I was pissed because I knew finding a comparable used car would be a pain in the ass.

My 2002 Cavilier might not look cool but it has been reliable, and gets 30 mpg.

I bought it in September of 2002 for about $6,500 and it had 22,000 miles on it. It was a lease car so it was almost all highway miles. As of right now it has 88,580 miles on. Other then the paint job fading in the Texas sun it drives like it was new. Of course I have religiously kept up with the maintenance on it.

I told the insurance company I wanted them to try and save it, luckily they managed to save it even though the repairs cost $3100! Apparently they were going to total it if it went over $3200. I was surprised they spent that much on it, apparently used cars like mine are bringing that kind of money.

Even though my 2002 Cavalier is 10 years old now, the 2200 EFI 4 cylinder they have in these are known for running forever if you take car of them. I figure oil changes and brakes and tires and specific intervals is better then a new car payment right now.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:41:00 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I hear it is the overpaid teachers buying all of the 20+ year old used Porsches that have driven demand up.

Eye Cee Wat U did'ed thair...

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:41:05 AM EDT

[#33]

I bought this for $3300 OTD off a Ford dealers' lot on July 8th:
2004 Crown Victoria P71
Cruise, power windows, power seat, A/C, etc.
97,000 miles

Course, old cop cars aren't exactly sought after...

I completely agree with the used car prices out there. There's a Subaru dealer down the road from me with a 2008 shortbed 1/2 ton 4x4 (with cheap crome steel wheels) sitting in the grass for "$24350"... I could go to the Chevy dealer across town and buy that damn truck for less than that brand fucking new. As of right now, they can choke on a bag of dicks.

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Posted: 9/23/2011 9:43:19 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I bought this for $3300 OTD off a Ford dealers' lot on July 8th:
2004 Crown Victoria P71
Cruise, power windows, power seat, A/C, etc.
97,000 miles

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c352/WIZZO499/DSCF9308.jpg

Course, old cop cars aren't exactly sought after...

I completely agree with the used car prices out there. There's a Subaru dealer down the road from me with a 2008 shortbed 1/2 ton 4x4 (with cheap crome steel wheels) sitting in the grass for "$24350"... I could go to the Chevy dealer across town and buy that damn truck for less than that brand fucking new. As of right now, they can choke on a bag of dicks.

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In before the You-are-a-poser-that-uses-the-"I-got-a-good-deal"-excuse-so-you-could-get-a-spotlight-that-should-be-illegal-for-civilians crew.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:44:52 AM EDT

[#35]

While Cash For Clunkers was a waste of money it hurt the salvage yard business more than the used car market. The factors driving up the
price of used cars is the fact more people are buying used than new, the tsunami in Japan damaged alot of cars as well as stoping production
of new cars to be shipped over to the states, All the natural disasters here in the states over the summer (flooding, tornados, ect..) have caused
a huge demand for used vehicles.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:49:20 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.

If you have the $$$ or can get financing...

Hence the cram-down into the used car market of millions of buyers...

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:51:45 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The only thing I can think is the consumer demand for used cars is up. I suppose with he foul economy people hesitate to drop a bundle they may not even have on a new vehicle, only to see its value drop 25% the moment it leaves the car lot.

That's not happening for some car manufacturers and models anymore.

The used market for a vehicle starts at the first owner first year, and depreciates from there, with the typical "off the lot drop" of $5k or whatever.

That jump, is now _ZERO_ dollars. The car goes right onto it's value curve for time/miles/wear consideration.

That is, if you buy Japanese, some Korean, and ONE American brand. The off the lot drop in value is still present for the typical shit turned out by most American brands.

If you want a Honda or Toyota or something, there's little difference in getting new verses almost new anymore, that plus the warranty and all that is making a new car much more attractive than it was. Note though, that also means an overall price increase for those cars.

My next vehicle is going to be new (I am about due for a new ride) because of this.

This is exactly the reason why we ended up purchasing new this time around.

Five years ago, I told myself I'd never buy a new car. When it came time to replace my wife's car, we zero'd in on the Honda Fit (gay, I know, but it fit all of our criteria for a car for her perfectly).

When I looked at the used car prices, they were only $1-2k asking price less than new plus they had 40k miles on them. Combine that with some obvious wear and tear, the used car price just wasn't worth it.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:51:59 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So-called "Cash For Clunkers" not only pissed away HUGE $$, but managed to accomplish that too.

I think it's a reality that people can't afford new cars so people are buying used. So more demand than supply.

Cash for Clunkers KILLED supply...

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I don't buy it. Did it make a dent? Sure, but there are plenty of used cars for sale. The demand has gone way up because of the economy. Nobody wants to buy new.

CFC not only removed whole sellable cars - it removed the source of parts to economically re-condition a damaged car into sellable shape.

Since those cars now have to be repaired with aftermarket new tin (instead of junkyard tin) and new or rebuilt parts (instead of junkyad pulls) the cost of a reconditioned auto has risen - and thus th eprice it must command as well.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:54:59 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.

Tell me about it. I look for used Mustangs every few weeks, and prices are still higher than I can afford. 2003 & 2004 Mach 1s are still ridiculously high.

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:58:13 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
CFC has been dead and gone for awhile now. You can't completely blame that for what's going on now.

Ask a used car dealer if he is still having an effect from it.

My father is ...

Posted: 9/23/2011 9:58:41 AM EDT

[#41]

Hope & Change!

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:00:38 AM EDT

[#42]

I saw a used truck, same as mine but 1 year older, on Craigs for $1K more than I paid for mine new.

The used car market is full of fuck.

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:02:08 AM EDT

[#43]

I'm still driving my first car I got when I was 16. I should have probably gotten a new car or truck a couple of years ago when the prices were a little more reasonable for used vehicles, but whatever... This one is still free sans any maintenance required. I'm just torn between a truck or some kind of sedan. The truck would be a lot more useful, but my dad and grandparents live 30 miles away, a lot of my friends live 50-75 miles away (one way) and I like to go visit them, so gas mileage is a consideration.

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:10:03 AM EDT

[#44]

New cars beep at you if you take off your seatbelt in the passenger seat to get something out of the backseat.

Cannot put into words how much that annoys me.

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:12:03 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

CFC has been dead and gone for awhile now. You can't completely blame that for what's going on now.

Ask a used car dealer if he is still having an effect from it.
My father is ...

Has he considered people are holding onto their cars longer?

How about people buying from individuals rather than getting raped by used car lots?

Again to say CFC is the reason for this is take a great leap.

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:14:01 AM EDT

[#46]

Roast Beef Pussy Lips

Kiss'em lowly taxpayer

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:15:46 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
New cars beep at you if you take off your seatbelt in the passenger seat to get something out of the backseat.

Cannot put into words how much that annoys me.

Ever listed to Eddie Murphy's "Raw"?

"Your lights are on ...."

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:17:47 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
5 year old cars with 80k+ miles still selling for over 50% of original MSRP, that should not be happening. One of my friends works in the industry and showed me the manheim auction prices, what dealers are paying for cars at auction is about where the initially asking price should be on the lot IMO.

Try buying a used Prius these days. That market is on fire.

Gen II's going for new Gen III money. It's ridonculous.

Why would anybody want to?

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:20:12 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
the thing is used cars are priced virtually to the point where buying a new car makes better financial sense.

This.

I tried for the life of me to find a good used "family" car (2-3 years old OK miles, etc.). The prices were SO insane.

Ended up with a new Honda Pilot, great vehicle/value IMO.

Posted: 9/23/2011 10:21:34 AM EDT

[#50]

I'm so glad I live where I do then. Bought a 1.5 year old 2009 Expeidition EL with 25K-ish on the clock for 28K, MSRP was somewhere around 36-38K.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - wow, the used car market is totally out of whack right now (Page 2 of 4)

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