hondaciv's SHTF garden. Update 2 in OP. 03/31/11 - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - hondaciv's SHTF garden. Update 2 in OP. 03/31/11 (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:18:43 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

Good question. The book warns against using treated lumber because chemicals might get into your food.

Whether there's any validity to that, or just hippy organic-everything crap, I dunno.

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:23:08 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

We have a big stupid angry butt-hurt thread about it going in the garden forum.
Which is unusual for that venue.

In general, avoid contact between treated wood and soil for food production.
Just take that as intuitive good sense.

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:23:13 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

I wouldn't, but I have no idea if it would hurt anything. I'll bet someone in the food and garden forum knows though.

Glad you're back, BTW.

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:24:03 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

I wouldn't, but I have no idea if it would hurt anything. I'll bet someone in the food and garden forum knows though.

Glad you're back, BTW.

See above.

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:25:19 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Here's some inspiration for you, hope your garden does well and I will be checking back for updates

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/garden4-21.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/garden-5-26.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/garden-7-8.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/garden-7-8-2.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/garden-7-8-3.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/2009-1.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/MarkNH/garden/2009-2.jpg

That's very , VERY nice . I'd love to see something as pretty as that here .

The "prettyness" is a compromise with the wife, I can take over a bunch of the back lawn for the veggie garden as long as it looks nice and has some room for her to grow flowers.

Posted: 3/3/2011 3:30:21 PM EDT

[#6]

Damn I hate you southerners! My garden is under 2' of snow and ice. One of these days when I get a transfer down south I will finally be able to grow a nice garden.

Posted: 3/3/2011 4:14:21 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't sweat the vermiculite too much as long as you're using a good peat mix. Mine has a lot of pearlite in it. You could get away with expanded shale, you're just trying to create some additional porosity. Heck, straight peat works pretty good too.

I don't like pearlite.
It tends to separate and float up out of the mix.

Make sure it's pearlite and not beaded styrofoam, that used to be a common replacement for pearlite. Blows around, makes a mess.

Posted: 3/3/2011 4:17:11 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't sweat the vermiculite too much as long as you're using a good peat mix. Mine has a lot of pearlite in it. You could get away with expanded shale, you're just trying to create some additional porosity. Heck, straight peat works pretty good too.

I don't like pearlite.
It tends to separate and float up out of the mix.

Make sure it's pearlite and not beaded styrofoam, that used to be a common replacement for pearlite. Blows around, makes a mess.

Pearlite is bad enough.
That stuff is awful in potting mix.

Posted: 3/3/2011 4:29:17 PM EDT

[#9]

This thread is greatly relevant to my interests.

Posted: 3/3/2011 5:17:05 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Larger view of my backyard, with a look at the other stump I ground down. Not sure what kind of tree it was, it was an old stump. Yellow/orange sawdust from it, and it was hard as hell to grind.

http://www.bloodshotgamer.com/guns/garden/garden4.jpg

Ima guess Osage Orange aka Hedge Apple.

Posted: 3/3/2011 5:49:40 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Larger view of my backyard, with a look at the other stump I ground down. Not sure what kind of tree it was, it was an old stump. Yellow/orange sawdust from it, and it was hard as hell to grind.

http://www.bloodshotgamer.com/guns/garden/garden4.jpg

Ima guess Osage Orange aka Hedge Apple.

Could have been Bois D'arc.

Posted: 3/3/2011 5:52:59 PM EDT

[#12]

how much did the lumber and soil cost you? I think I'll stick to row gardening.

Pmc

Posted: 3/3/2011 6:46:46 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
how much did the lumber and soil cost you? I think I'll stick to row gardening.

Pmc

So far, my costs are:

$117.00 for peat moss, ground cover, and compost. Will still need another $60.00 or so for the final soil ingredient (vermiculite)
$96.00 for the lumber and linseed oil (14-2x6x8s and 2-2x12x8's)

Posted: 3/3/2011 6:58:45 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
how much did the lumber and soil cost you? I think I'll stick to row gardening.

Pmc

So far, my costs are:

$117.00 for peat moss, ground cover, and compost. Will still need another $60.00 or so for the final soil ingredient (vermiculite)
$96.00 for the lumber and linseed oil (14-2x6x8s and 2-2x12x8's)

You only pay for the mix once.
Next year it just gets some more compost like any other garden.

Posted: 3/3/2011 7:18:44 PM EDT

[#15]

What is the advantage to using 2 4x4's as opposed to one 4x8?

Posted: 3/3/2011 7:21:56 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
What is the advantage to using 2 4x4's as opposed to one 4x8?

The other guys might be able to come up with better answers, but with 2 boxes, I can put one in full sun, one in partial. The other advantage I can think of is being able to easily walk around a 4x4 box.

I'm sure after my experiment there will be dozens of things I do different.

Posted: 3/3/2011 7:25:42 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't sweat the vermiculite too much as long as you're using a good peat mix. Mine has a lot of pearlite in it. You could get away with expanded shale, you're just trying to create some additional porosity. Heck, straight peat works pretty good too.

I don't like pearlite.
It tends to separate and float up out of the mix.

Make sure it's pearlite and not beaded styrofoam, that used to be a common replacement for pearlite. Blows around, makes a mess.

Pearlite is bad enough.
That stuff is awful in potting mix.

I'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone.

Here are about 19,000 bluebonnet seedlings in a peat/pearlite mix.

Posted: 3/3/2011 7:30:22 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
What is the advantage to using 2 4x4's as opposed to one 4x8?

I tried it and I proved Mel right.
One of the SFG tenets is not walking on your soil.
With a 4 x 8 it's hard to reach into the center section.
Go with multiple 4 x 4's.

It's like a golden mean.

Posted: 3/3/2011 7:48:15 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Larger view of my backyard, with a look at the other stump I ground down. Not sure what kind of tree it was, it was an old stump. Yellow/orange sawdust from it, and it was hard as hell to grind.
http://www.bloodshotgamer.com/guns/garden/garden4.jpg

Ima guess Osage Orange aka Hedge Apple.

Could have been Bois D'arc.

Those are all names for the same tree.

Posted: 3/3/2011 8:04:14 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't sweat the vermiculite too much as long as you're using a good peat mix. Mine has a lot of pearlite in it. You could get away with expanded shale, you're just trying to create some additional porosity. Heck, straight peat works pretty good too.

I don't like pearlite.
It tends to separate and float up out of the mix.

Make sure it's pearlite and not beaded styrofoam, that used to be a common replacement for pearlite. Blows around, makes a mess.

Pearlite is bad enough.
That stuff is awful in potting mix.

I'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone.

Here are about 19,000 bluebonnet seedlings in a peat/pearlite mix.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/dtolerant/bluebonnets.jpg

And it floats out when you water your trays.

Posted: 3/3/2011 8:26:23 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
how much did the lumber and soil cost you? I think I'll stick to row gardening.

Pmc

So far, my costs are:

$117.00 for peat moss, ground cover, and compost. Will still need another $60.00 or so for the final soil ingredient (vermiculite)
$96.00 for the lumber and linseed oil (14-2x6x8s and 2-2x12x8's)

Where did you get your seeds from?

Posted: 3/3/2011 8:33:32 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
how much did the lumber and soil cost you? I think I'll stick to row gardening.

Pmc

So far, my costs are:

$117.00 for peat moss, ground cover, and compost. Will still need another $60.00 or so for the final soil ingredient (vermiculite)
$96.00 for the lumber and linseed oil (14-2x6x8s and 2-2x12x8's)

Where did you get your seeds from?

I haven't bought them yet. I need to consult the arfcom experts first.

Posted: 3/3/2011 8:52:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't sweat the vermiculite too much as long as you're using a good peat mix. Mine has a lot of pearlite in it. You could get away with expanded shale, you're just trying to create some additional porosity. Heck, straight peat works pretty good too.

I don't like pearlite.
It tends to separate and float up out of the mix.

Make sure it's pearlite and not beaded styrofoam, that used to be a common replacement for pearlite. Blows around, makes a mess.

Pearlite is bad enough.
That stuff is awful in potting mix.

I'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone.

Here are about 19,000 bluebonnet seedlings in a peat/pearlite mix.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/dtolerant/bluebonnets.jpg

And it floats out when you water your trays.

I ordered in about $60k worth of baled peat/pearlite mix last year and produced about 5 million seedlings and another 5,000 - 3 gallon stock plants.

I don't have any problems with it. Even long term, in my personal beds, it's simply not an issue. The roots hold the soil.

Posted: 3/3/2011 9:20:16 PM EDT

[#24]

Awesome! I wish I lived in a place where I could do that.

Posted: 3/3/2011 10:10:16 PM EDT

[#25]

Tag

Posted: 3/4/2011 6:14:56 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

Good question. The book warns against using treated lumber because chemicals might get into your food.

Whether there's any validity to that, or just hippy organic-everything crap, I dunno.

The linseed oil you used on your lumber probably had arsenic added to it to help catalyze the polymerization FYI.

Posted: 3/4/2011 10:39:12 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wouldn't sweat the vermiculite too much as long as you're using a good peat mix. Mine has a lot of pearlite in it. You could get away with expanded shale, you're just trying to create some additional porosity. Heck, straight peat works pretty good too.

I don't like pearlite.
It tends to separate and float up out of the mix.

Make sure it's pearlite and not beaded styrofoam, that used to be a common replacement for pearlite. Blows around, makes a mess.

Pearlite is bad enough.
That stuff is awful in potting mix.

I'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone.

Here are about 19,000 bluebonnet seedlings in a peat/pearlite mix.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/dtolerant/bluebonnets.jpg

And it floats out when you water your trays.

I ordered in about $60k worth of baled peat/pearlite mix last year and produced about 5 million seedlings and another 5,000 - 3 gallon stock plants.

I don't have any problems with it. Even long term, in my personal beds, it's simply not an issue. The roots hold the soil.

I'm not suggesting it's deleterious in any way.
It just floats out and makes a mess.
More of an issue for a patio gardener or with container plantings.

Posted: 3/4/2011 12:42:29 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Larger view of my backyard, with a look at the other stump I ground down. Not sure what kind of tree it was, it was an old stump. Yellow/orange sawdust from it, and it was hard as hell to grind.

http://www.bloodshotgamer.com/guns/garden/garden4.jpg

Ima guess Osage Orange aka Hedge Apple.

Could have been Bois D'arc.

Those are all names for the same tree.

Bois D'arc is a newone on me... learn somethin' new everyday

Posted: 3/4/2011 9:47:36 PM EDT

[#29]

Here's a decent resource for anyone having trouble finding vermiculite.

http://www.hotfrog.com/Products/Vermiculite

Posted: 3/4/2011 11:03:49 PM EDT

[#30]

Our seedlings are sprouting in pots sitting in the living room. (Tomatoes, lettuce, radishes, celery and potatoes).

5 (soon to be a lot more) 6X12 raised bed gardens in the yard waiting for these guys to be old enough to be put outside. We just harvested a couple head of lettuce. I loves me some fresh salad.

Posted: 3/4/2011 11:17:35 PM EDT

[#31]

I'm digging this thread.

Posted: 3/5/2011 3:49:53 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

Good question. The book warns against using treated lumber because chemicals might get into your food.

Whether there's any validity to that, or just hippy organic-everything crap, I dunno.

Can treated wood be used in gardens?
Yes. Scientific studies have proven that any copper that may migrate from the treated wood becomes biologically inactive, thus causing no eco-toxic or other environmental impacts. YellaWood® brand products are gentle enough to be used in raised vegetable gardens and durable enough to provide long-term protection.

Posted: 3/5/2011 4:57:35 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I'm digging this thread.

yes, this is a tag

Posted: 3/5/2011 7:42:53 AM EDT

[#34]

This thread has reminded me that I got to get cracking on our garden. I'll try and trim my fruit trees today, if the weather allows.

Posted: 3/5/2011 9:36:55 AM EDT

[#35]

Last year did a 4x8, just got a load of top soil. Need to add 1x8 against the fence for vine plants - squash, cucumbers etc. I have little issue w/4x8, might even add another.

Building a 55G compost rig is next.

Posted: 3/5/2011 10:38:40 AM EDT

[#36]

The raised bed type looks to be very efficient, both space and water usage wise. Plus no need to plow, till, etc. Very, very interesting thread. Glad it's in GD for more folks to see.

Posted: 3/5/2011 8:14:22 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Q :

In a raised bed garden , can you use railroad ties ? Will the creasote ( sp?) in the ties mess with the plants ??

I'd use them if I had extra's.... Just put plastic sheeting between the rr ties and the soil. Cheaper than buying new wood.

Posted: 3/7/2011 4:17:49 PM EDT

[#38]

Out of curiosity, (other than the mushroom and cow manure) what are the other composts that you picked up made from?

Also, for anyone that starts their plants indoors. Would standard or "cool" cfl's be ok as a supplementary light source?

Posted: 3/8/2011 2:39:44 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Out of curiosity, (other than the mushroom and cow manure) what are the other composts that you picked up made from?

Also, for anyone that starts their plants indoors. Would standard or "cool" cfl's be ok as a supplementary light source?

Here's a picture of the mix I used. To be honest, I'm not sure what some of it is made of.

It just said compost on the bag, so I got some. The book says to use 5 different types of compost in the soil mixture. I guess it makes it all balanced or something.

Posted: 3/8/2011 5:18:54 PM EDT

[#40]

Outstanding work hondaciv.

also tagged for updates.

Posted: 3/8/2011 5:26:11 PM EDT

[#41]

This past weekend, I yanked out one of our 4'x4' boxes, and built a contained 8'x14' bed for this year. I used PT landscape timbers. I'm not too worried about chemical leeching. Hopefully we'll produce more than we did last year.

Good job, hondaciv!

Posted: 3/8/2011 6:10:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Is that rhubarb? GOD I love rhubarb pie.

rhubarb: good in pie

In my garden:
maters
Squarsh
Peppers
Okry
Corn
Green beans

Posted: 3/12/2011 4:34:13 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Out of curiosity, (other than the mushroom and cow manure) what are the other composts that you picked up made from?

Also, for anyone that starts their plants indoors. Would standard or "cool" cfl's be ok as a supplementary light source?

Here's a picture of the mix I used. To be honest, I'm not sure what some of it is made of.

It just said compost on the bag, so I got some. The book says to use 5 different types of compost in the soil mixture. I guess it makes it all balanced or something.

http://www.bloodshotgamer.com/guns/garden/garden6.jpg

Interesting. Looks like mushroom, cow, and cotton byproducts. I'm guessing the other two are probably a blend of composts.
I'm thinking about trying a 'hanging' tomato plant out of a modified hanging basket and some Mel's mix. Has anyone done the upside down tomato?

Posted: 3/13/2011 6:21:28 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
These are 2 2'x2' potato boxes. The theory is to let the plant grow up, instead of growing down. As the potato plants grow, you keep adding soil and 2x6 boards. Then come harvest time, you unscrew the 2x6's from one side of the planter, and there's your potatoes.

Very interesting. I've seen the same done with old tires. Stack two tires and start your potatoes. Add another tire and soil as the plant grows. Remove tires at harvest time.

Posted: 3/13/2011 6:31:09 AM EDT

[#45]

You're doing great Honda!!

Over time, all this will become second nature to you.

Posted: 3/13/2011 4:55:16 PM EDT

[#46]

Here is mine when I first put it in

That's a compost heap on the back left.

Here it is last year, I was converting some to raised beds. I have one 4x12 raised bed in the back with tomatoes.

Here I have put in all raised beds and a little bit better fence. The fence is to keep my doggies and chickens out. I just finished the fence today. I need to add a little more dirt and I can put in the plants that are waiting patiently.

I have 2 more raised beds by the other fence, they are 4x8's.

I used 7/8x6 boards for the most part. I used thicker ones in the 4x8 beds but it's not necassary. I use a 4x4 cut in pieces for the corners. My 4x8's are 3 boards high but my other ones are only 2 boards high. I also decided on 3ft wide instead of 4. 3 of the ones in the fenced area are 3x10, one is 4x12, and another is 3x12.

I used treated wood, it does not have arsnic anymore. It's supposed to be safe.

I had to put wire around my 4x8 raised beds cause the chickens will get into them.

This year I am going to pass on the squash and grow eggplant instead. I'll have eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, green beans, onions, a few herbs, some corn, and new zealand spinich, which is not supposed to bolt in hot weather. I never tried corn but I got it on impulse at home depot.

I have been composting for years now, I use the wire hoop method and mix leaves in with kitchen scraps. Now that I have chickens I put leaves in the chicken pen, then put those leaves in the compost heap. I gather leaves up that people bag and leave by the curb. I need a lot to make it through till next year in my chicken pen. Your soil is your first crop. I store the leaves along the back fence, and in the bags. I can't add to much at once or it will get to high and not decompose, I think it drys out.

This is where my garden helpers stay. They pay their rent in eggs. There is pure leaves along that fence. The larger fenced garden is on the right out of the frame. Things are getting a little tight.

Posted: 3/21/2011 4:41:13 PM EDT

[#47]

gitarmac-You did a FANTASTIC job with your garden! Really gives me some good ideas. This is a great thread...hope more people will get motivated after seeing all the really neat gardens. Fresh food is something that can't be beat!!