Most legislation is passed without fanfare and barely anyone notices the rights and privileges that are taken away...few recognize the "re-writng" of the Constitution as district judges break down the strengthes our Founding Fathers provided for us...
  Then, every once in awhile, the strong arm of the government has to exert its power forcefully and    blatantly to remind us all that they are there and possess some powers beyond our control...it's called, intimidation...
  If you are not aware of the deterioration of our country as we have known it, read the history of other civilizations...all of which go through the same cycles to rising and falling...some quicker than others.
  Be grateful that you will likely have the firearms privileges you have at least for most of your lifetime.  Our kids will probably have to hide theirs or relinquish them.  
  It somes so subtly and yet, often with great surprise to those who are unaware of the signs of the times...Remember Germany in the 30's; how quickly they went from one type of government, with freedoms, to Naziism?   Remember Russian in 1917 how they changed overnight and suffered for 70 years?
  If you don't pray, you aught to.  If you don't write your congressman and Senators, you should.  America is on the precipice of dramatic change and we could go either way...a couple more terrorist attacks and ...and...martial law...  talk about restrictions then...  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "...our Government would never attack a US Citizen..." Who the fuck are you quoting? Every 'tard that I've ever heard such a statement from (including a Sheriff, and a couple of politicians). Oh. I see. Then you mean THIS guy - members.cox.net/_themacallan/strawman.jpg

Hey is that the guy doing all that gun buying for his friends?

And let's not forget that Hanmilton persuaded Washington to call out the troops to force Pennsylvania farmers to comply with the whiskey tax.

It seems like Lincoln might have been responsible for attacks on US citizens too.

Let's not forget the incident in Athens, TN

The uprising was led by ex-GIs recently returned from battle, to discover dishonest election tactics and corrupt and crooked local government. Having seen first-hand, Tennessee blood spilled and Tennessee lives lost in the battle for freedom, these patriotic veterans weren't about to knuckle under to the special interests. Certain insiders, for their own profit and benefit, had taken control of the small community of Athens, a town of about 7600 people.

Lest we not forget or think it 'can't happen to you'....Imminent Domain is the ultimate attack on US citizens.

Fox channel (Hannity and Colmes) did a segment a few nights ago about an older lady in upstate NY being 'domained out of her home of 50 years because the Indian Casino ( I don't recall the tribe right now) 'needed' the land for expansion of their casino operations. Whats more, the casino was only able to come up with 26 of the needed 52 acres all by themselves....but they had this nifty little agreement with the state of NY who promised to provide land by all means (imminent domain) available.

You believe that Crap?

Quoted: In 1924, a grateful Congress voted to give a bonus to World War I veterans - $1.25 for each day served overseas, $1.00 for each day served in the States. The catch was that payment would not be made until 1945. However, by 1932 the nation had slipped into the dark days of the Depression and the unemployed veterans wanted their money immediately. In May of that year, some 15,000 veterans, many unemployed and destitute, descended on Washington, D.C. to demand immediate payment of their bonus. Also:

You do realize that the Bonus Army was heavily controlled by socialists, right?  That it was a plot to overthrow the government or force them to hand out money making the socialist cause look good?

Bonus Marchers

Quoted: Quoted: Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio" HOW the FUCK was that self defense? Were the hippies armed? That is because d. crosby read about it in the paper or heard it on the radio, went off by himself and came back in a few minutes with the song. The song was released with in a couple weeks I believe. No the hippies were not armed, it was a peaceful demonstration, sure they were upset but were not armed.

Um, it wasn't peacefull.  The students were throwing rocks and bottles at the Guardsmen.  

Were the Guardsmen wrong for opening fire?  Sure.
Should a bunch of people over the age of 18 had been smart enough to realize what happens when you throw rocks at people with guns?  Sure.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: hinking.gif Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio" HOW the FUCK was that self defense? Were the hippies armed? That is because d. crosby read about it in the paper or heard it on the radio, went off by himself and came back in a few minutes with the song. The song was released with in a couple weeks I believe. No the hippies were not armed, it was a peaceful demonstration, sure they were upset but were not armed. Um, it wasn't peacefull.  The students were throwing rocks and bottles at the Guardsmen.   Were the Guardsmen wrong for opening fire?  Sure. Should a bunch of people over the age of 18 had been smart enough to realize what happens when you throw rocks at people with guns?  Sure.

Ok, lets make a deal, we can go to the Kent campus and I will stand on the hill where the guardmen were standing, you stand where the closest person hit(not even killed) was and start thowing rock at me, as soon as I feel threatened I will shoot you. Last I check it is really damn hard to throw a rock or bottle 100 yrs up hill.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio" HOW the FUCK was that self defense? Were the hippies armed? That is because d. crosby read about it in the paper or heard it on the radio, went off by himself and came back in a few minutes with the song. The song was released with in a couple weeks I believe. No the hippies were not armed, it was a peaceful demonstration, sure they were upset but were not armed. Um, it wasn't peacefull.  The students were throwing rocks and bottles at the Guardsmen.   Were the Guardsmen wrong for opening fire?  Sure. Should a bunch of people over the age of 18 had been smart enough to realize what happens when you throw rocks at people with guns?  Sure. Ok, lets make a deal, we can go to the Kent campus and I will stand on the hill where the guardmen were standing, you stand where the closest person hit(not even killed) was and start thowing rock at me, as soon as I feel threatened I will shoot you. Last I check it is really damn hard to throw a rock or bottle 100 yrs up hill.

Let's make a deal, you throw rocks and bottles at a group of people armed with guns.  It should be safe right?  I mean it's not like you can hurt them at that distance.  

It's one of my own personal rules, I don't throw rocks at a group of heavily armed people, no matter if my rock is capable of hitting them or not.  If there was no way possible to hit the guardsmen (which isn't in dispute, I don't disagree with you on that count) then why throw rocks at all?

People who throw rocks at armed people, be they students at a college, Palestinian protesting against the Israelis, or chinese teenagers facing off against the chinese authorities, they shouldn't be surprised when they get fired on.  

I didn't say the Guardsmen were in the right, and I didn't say the students were in the right.  Both sides escalated the situation.  

But let me highlight it for you in case you missed the point.

DON'T THROW ROCKS AT PEOPLE WITH GUNS, YOU MIGHT GET SHOT

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: hinking.gif Kent State makes me think of the song "Four Dead in Ohio" HOW the FUCK was that self defense? Were the hippies armed? That is because d. crosby read about it in the paper or heard it on the radio, went off by himself and came back in a few minutes with the song. The song was released with in a couple weeks I believe. No the hippies were not armed, it was a peaceful demonstration, sure they were upset but were not armed. Standing on the hill that the soldiers were standing and looking at where the poeple that were shot were it is obvious that it couldn't be self defence. A samll group of the soldiers walked forward of the rest lined up, droped to one knee and started firing. I think that 2 of the people killed were not even involed with the demonstration but were on their way to class. There is a metal sculpure on the hill with a .30 hole in it that is there still. Seeing that really brings it home. Oh, then I was totally wrong about the protesting "students" setting fire to a building, destroying other property and other miscellaneous violent mayhem. Pardon me. hr

The fire was days before the shooting. The national guard wasn't brought in until after the fire in the ROTC building. What about the night before the shooting when the guardmen bayonetted some of the other protesters. The reason that the demonstration on may 4 was so big is that alot of people were upset about the guardsmen stabbing peaceful protesters.

this site has good information about may 4th and the day leading up to the shooting.
  http://www.may41970.com/

read the "May 4, 1970 chronology(with photos)" There is a link on the chronology page with a map of the area.

http://www.may41970.com/prenticelot.htm
on the picture on the top right shows the parking lot where they students were shot and the smoke on the hill is where the guardsmen were standing.

Quoted: Let's make a deal, you throw rocks and bottles at a group of people armed with guns.  It should be safe right?  I mean it's not like you can hurt them at that distance.   It's one of my own personal rules, I don't throw rocks at a group of heavily armed people, no matter if my rock is capable of hitting them or not.  If there was no way possible to hit the guardsmen (which isn't in dispute, I don't disagree with you on that count) then why throw rocks at all? People who throw rocks at armed people, be they students at a college, Palestinian protesting against the Israelis, or chinese teenagers facing off against the chinese authorities, they shouldn't be surprised when they get fired on.   I didn't say the Guardsmen were in the right, and I didn't say the students were in the right.  Both sides escalated the situation.   But let me highlight it for you in case you missed the point. DON'T THROW ROCKS AT PEOPLE WITH GUNS, YOU MIGHT GET SHOT

I agree they shouldn't have thrown the rocks, the guardsmen were throwing rocks as well. It was also a small group of the guardsmen. I agree that throwing rocks at armed military men is a bad idea, shooting into a crown of unarmed students is way worse. 67 shots were fired in 13 seconds, by about 12 men(I don't know the exact number) Most of the national guard were returning back down the hill to the burned down ROTC building when the men that shot stopped, and in unison turned and fired.

Quoted: Well, I have no problem with the government retaking Elian for his father.  Above and beyond all else in this world, the right of a Parent to raise his son is paramount.  It was about the only good thing Reno and company did during their tenure.

I don't have an opinion on him staying or leaving.
I have an issue with Klinton and Ko sidestepping the courts, swooping in, beating up cameramen, and breaking into a house SWAT style.

The warrant was an arrest warrant for the adults in the house....
So, why didn't INS arrest anyone?