Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse. Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing. Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history I could go on, but THESE ARE the end times my friend. We may not have the infastructure to fullfil bible prophesy to completion, but we DO have the technology to do what is said and we ARE in the end times right now. Live will be really interesting from now on. Things are NOT going to just get better. They will only get worse and worse on the world stage. Your "personal" life might be "ok", but things are getting worse with no end in sight. So enjoy your life, live for today, make your peace with God and pray for the future, because, even though there is prophesy, it's up to us and it can be changed. Think globally and act locally. You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud. I know what it will take for me to believe the the "end is near" and nothing you have mentioned above is enough.  Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history. No offense.

Respectfully DrJarhead...then please explain yourself. You say I am playing fast and loose, then "why" do you think that? It's pretty easy to just tell people they are doing something. It's a whole other thing to actually back it up. Ever since Jesus came back, we have been in the end times. If you are not a Christian, then you can believe what ever you want. If you are a Christian, you can believe anything you want. For me? I just know, the middle east is a "real" major player for the first time in history and I believe bible prophesy is not something that happened in the past...are you one of those that thinks Armageddon has already happened?...but is happening as we speak.

And from your "statement", it "sounds" like you don't like Christians very much, or had a bad experience when you were a child. If that happened, I'm sorry it happened. People are people and even so called Christians can act completely opposite to what is explained in the bible. If you don't believe the bible, then that's your choice, this is America and we have free will. You can do what you want, but don't tell me what I can believe. I don't know if Armageddon is going to happen in 5 years, tomorrow or 100 years....I just know, I have seen an explosion of knowledge, just like it says in the bible and I have seen other things that have lead me to believe something is going on. Like I said, we may not have the infracture to do what I explained, but we have the technology to do what the prophets saw. If I am wrong, big deal. I'm not going to quit living my life and having faith in what I believe.

You want to live like everything is fine in Denmark, be my guest. I don't have to change your mind. That's not my job.

Iran has a "president" that is a member of a group that believes the apocalypse will arrive within 2 years and that in the end an era of peace and only Islam will remain.

there are moonbats like that all over the world, no biggie.
BUT HE'S TRYING TO GET NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS PEOPLE.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse. Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing. Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history I could go on, but THESE ARE the end times my friend. We may not have the infastructure to fullfil bible prophesy to completion, but we DO have the technology to do what is said and we ARE in the end times right now. Live will be really interesting from now on. Things are NOT going to just get better. They will only get worse and worse on the world stage. Your "personal" life might be "ok", but things are getting worse with no end in sight. So enjoy your life, live for today, make your peace with God and pray for the future, because, even though there is prophesy, it's up to us and it can be changed. Think globally and act locally. You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud. I know what it will take for me to believe the the "end is near" and nothing you have mentioned above is enough.  Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history. No offense. Respectfully DrJarhead...then please explain yourself. You say I am playing fast and loose, then "why" do you think that?

Well, that covers a lot of territory, doesn't it?
Daniel, Matthew 24, all of Revelations and lots more.  Tough to cover in a post.

I will leave it at, it is MO that you are reading things into these prophecies that are not consistent IMO.  Same mistake that has been made for thousands of years by plenty.

I will point out some below.

It's pretty easy to just tell people they are doing something. It's a whole other thing to actually back it up. Ever since Jesus came back, we have been in the end times.

Oh, rubbish.  
You could say the same about Noah, Abraham, David, etc, etc.

If you are not a Christian, then you can believe what ever you want. If you are a Christian, you can believe anything you want.

Yes, I can believe whatever I want.  
So can you. However, you didn't say you believe we are in the end times, you say we are as if it is a statement of fact. Ridiculous.

For me? I just know, the middle east is a "real" major player for the first time in history

Kind of like the Rise of Islam and the Ottoman Empire, huh?

and I believe bible prophesy is not something that happened in the past...

Depends on your POV, I suppose. If not, and I agree with some of that, it does not necessarily mean that it is imminent.

are you one of those that thinks Armageddon has already happened?...but is happening as we speak.

I am wise enough to recognize, based on what is stated in Revelations, that it is possible it already has happened.  I doubt it though.

And from your "statement", it "sounds" like you don't like Christians very much, or had a bad experience when you were a child. If that happened, I'm sorry it happened. People are people and even so called Christians can act completely opposite to what is explained in the bible.

Don't like Christians?  That's ridiculous also.

If you don't believe the bible, then that's your choice, this is America and we have free will.

Another incorrect assumption.
What I do believe is that most try to make prophecy fit whatever situation they wish to fit it into wnet quite the reverse should be done.  If events don't fit, then they simply don't and trying to beat a square peg in a round hole won't make it fit.

You can do what you want, but don't tell me what I can believe.

Where did I do that?
You are wrong again.

I don't know if Armageddon is going to happen in 5 years, tomorrow or 100 years....

Exactly. And there is nothing to make me think we are there right now.  Perhaps tomorrow some event will occur that will convince me we are on our way but not yet.  I maintain a watchful, yet skeptical eye.  Just as you and everyone else should.

I just know, I have seen an explosion of knowledge, just like it says in the bible and I have seen other things that have lead me to believe something is going on.

Taken in the context of any previous century that could be said by anyone.  The 20th vs the 19th, 19th vs the 18th, etc.  What about the Renaisance?

Like I said, we may not have the infracture to do what I explained, but we have the technology to do what the prophets saw. If I am wrong, big deal. I'm not going to quit living my life and having faith in what I believe.

Who the Hell asked you to?
You're the one who said, "THESE ARE the end times my friend."

You want to live like everything is fine in Denmark, be my guest. I don't have to change your mind. That's not my job.

Sure sounds like you are filling out the job application to me.
And I don't want to live in Denmark!

Now:

Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming)

Depending on your point of view, you might have consider the Roman Empire to be able to control all commerce. And plenty of gov'ts since.
In the future it will be even worse.  The ability to do something does not equal doing so.

- The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers

And it says that where in Revelations?

- The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy)

Through much of history the economy has been global to some degree or another. It iwll be more so 1000 years from now.

- The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull)

Again, we will still have that ability in the future. And the ability, again...
Further, that may or may not be due to nuclear weapons. However, even if their are nuclear attacks, will that in and of itself mean the endo is near. Why not 1945 then?

- Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass)

And maybe they will be driven from Israel and return again 500 years from now.

- The middle east becoming nuclear powers.

Where does it say that????

- The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history

Again, so what?

When all of these events occur it will be obvious, not a patchwork for religious fanatics to try to force together.  IOW, many of the things you note could fit many periods of history and likewise in the future.

I agree with lippo.  One could always brush aside end-times discussions with "earthquakes have happened before"  or "palgues have happened before".  This seems to be the first time that everything seems to be happening at the same time - the "signs of the times."  Even many of the small details are falling into place.  Of course, it's not all there, but that only means it is a question of timing.  Jesus Himself did and does not know the exact time: He said "...no one knows the exact time, not even I, only the Father knows."  

There are a number of things still waiting, but, as lippo said, if it is not here immediately, it is on the board and will be very soon.  He that has understanding......

Quoted: There shall be war, and rumors of war. I don't think that this is the end times yet... I think things have to get worse... much, much worse, before I'll believe we're in the end times. This could be the very beginning of a long, difficult slide to the end though.

+1

I think this is the beginning of the road to the end, within say the next 50 - 100 years. For all the crap that's going on, Christianity is still relatively unhindered in the Western world (and much of the rest of the world), when you compare today to history. For instance, when Nero ruled the Roman empire, and burned Christians alive as sort of sick candles for his garden parties with socialites. And, IIRC, the end times have to be the worst period in history for Christians in order to be the end times. I think we're still a fair ways off until things get worse than Nero's times.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse. Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing. Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history I could go on, but THESE ARE the end times my friend. We may not have the infastructure to fullfil bible prophesy to completion, but we DO have the technology to do what is said and we ARE in the end times right now. Live will be really interesting from now on. Things are NOT going to just get better. They will only get worse and worse on the world stage. Your "personal" life might be "ok", but things are getting worse with no end in sight. So enjoy your life, live for today, make your peace with God and pray for the future, because, even though there is prophesy, it's up to us and it can be changed. Think globally and act locally. You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud. I know what it will take for me to believe the the "end is near" and nothing you have mentioned above is enough.  Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history. No offense. Respectfully DrJarhead...then please explain yourself. You say I am playing fast and loose, then "why" do you think that? Well, that covers a lot of territory, doesn't it? Daniel, Matthew 24, all of Revelations and lots more.  Tough to cover in a post. (You butted in, so give cliff notes. Just saying "tough to cover" tells me that you may be talking out your back side. If you are so sure, cliff notes please.) I will leave it at, it is MO that you are reading things into these prophecies that are not consistent IMO. (Cliff notes? Please)  Same mistake that has been made for thousands of years by plenty. (Yeah, so? People are always going to say it's the end times. That's human nature. The problem is, they base it on emotion instead of looking at current facts. Kind of like when you go to church and the brimstone preacher starts spouting off how you will go to hell today if you don't repent and give him money. Most people talk about end times to control others. I am not doing that. It's something I believe.) I will point out some below. (And NO you don't. You just give a flip answer with no substance) It's pretty easy to just tell people they are doing something. It's a whole other thing to actually back it up. Ever since Jesus came back, we have been in the end times. Oh, rubbish.   You could say the same about Noah, Abraham, David, etc, etc. (How?) If you are not a Christian, then you can believe what ever you want. If you are a Christian, you can believe anything you want. Yes, I can believe whatever I want.   So can you. However, you didn't say you believe we are in the end times, you say we are as if it is a statement of fact. (To me it is fact. And it's what I believe. Anything wrong with that professor? As factual as I have faith that Jesus died for my sins.) Ridiculous. (How? For me? I just know, the middle east is a "real" major player for the first time in history Kind of like the Rise of Islam and the Ottoman Empire, huh? (NO! As in, they are getting the ability to affect the WHOLE world for the first time. With the rise of Islam or the Ottoman Empire, there wasn't the degree that the middle east could control the economies and fates of countries through out the world. If they shut off the oil, EVERYONE will be screwed. THAT'S A MAJOR PLAYER. Not some dickhead dictator or ruler that could affect just their own region.) and I believe bible prophesy is not something that happened in the past... Depends on your POV, I suppose. If not, and I agree with some of that, it does not necessarily mean that it is imminent. (You are really good at slinging a statement with no backing. Once again, cliff notes please.) are you one of those that thinks Armageddon has already happened?...but is happening as we speak. I am wise enough to recognize, based on what is stated in Revelations, that it is possible it already has happened.  I doubt it though. (You sound like my wife when she doesn't want to answer a question. Double speaking again?) And from your "statement", it "sounds" like you don't like Christians very much, or had a bad experience when you were a child. If that happened, I'm sorry it happened. People are people and even so called Christians can act completely opposite to what is explained in the bible. Don't like Christians?  That's ridiculous also. (I said that because of your..."Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate"...comment. How is one suppose to take that? You called it "bullshit".) If you don't believe the bible, then that's your choice, this is America and we have free will. Another incorrect assumption. (Just stating that I understand that you can believe what you want in a free country. That's all.) What I do believe is that most try to make prophecy fit whatever situation they wish to fit it into wnet quite the reverse should be done.  If events don't fit, then they simply don't and trying to beat a square peg in a round hole won't make it fit. (IMO, events DO fit. Israel became a nation once more in 1948. Is that a fact or not? To me it sure does look like one.) You can do what you want, but don't tell me what I can believe. Where did I do that? ("You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud. Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history."...sounds like you were doing just that. No facts, just do this, do that...you are wrong..yada, yada, yada.) You are wrong again. I don't know if Armageddon is going to happen in 5 years, tomorrow or 100 years.... Exactly. And there is nothing to make me think we are there right now. (Good, fine for you. That's YOUR opinion. Not mine.)  Perhaps tomorrow some event will occur that will convince me we are on our way but not yet.  I maintain a watchful, yet skeptical eye.  Just as you and everyone else should. (And I have also, that's why I believe what I am seeing.) I just know, I have seen an explosion of knowledge, just like it says in the bible and I have seen other things that have lead me to believe something is going on. Taken in the context of any previous century that could be said by anyone.  The 20th vs the 19th, 19th vs the 18th, etc.  What about the Renaisance? (Back then it took decades to double the level of knowledge. Today it's around 14 months. They didn't have a "knowledge explosion" back then.) Like I said, we may not have the infracture to do what I explained, but we have the technology to do what the prophets saw. If I am wrong, big deal. I'm not going to quit living my life and having faith in what I believe. Who the Hell asked you to? (My statement was for the "freaked" out reader. You know, the one that stops living and goes into hiding because they think the ski is falling. We all die and the only thing that matters is how you live your life. That's all I was refering too.) You're the one who said, "THESE ARE the end times my friend." (Yep, and I honestly believe that. Bush even thinks his war in Iraq is doing God's will. He's probably right.) You want to live like everything is fine in Denmark, be my guest. I don't have to change your mind. That's not my job. Sure sounds like you are filling out the job application to me. (Nope, you spoke up and told me that I was wrong. You acted like it was your job to change my mind. It's not. You know that. But it's also not my job to change yours. I was just trying to state how I see things going. And you don't see it. Ok, big deal. So we differ in opinions. But don't tell me that I don't know history. I have a pretty firm grasp on it. AND I have talked to those people that think Armaggedon happened already. I don't buy it. At least not from what I have heard from them. They didn't seem to make common sense, based on all of the bible. They just quoted when they wanted, and when I brought up other facts, they would just double talk and change the subject.) And I don't want to live in Denmark! (I don't blame you.) Now: Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) Depending on your point of view, you might have consider the Roman Empire to be able to control all commerce. And plenty of gov'ts since. (That's bull. Only when you can change everyone to a cashless society and track the movement of people can you truly control all commerce. The Romans... That's rich! With electronic transactions, the use of the vera-chip with these transactions and tracking people with GPS implants and RFID tags, we are pretty close to being able to control all commerce now. Also, that type of control includes the food supply. Just like the hybrid seeds they have now, that won't germinate. When safe edible food can be completely controlled by the state, then that will be the final straw. And we are pretty close to that now. What about hunting? Try feeding the whole population on that. There are only so many hunters and there are a LOT more people. Pretty soon after SHTF, the wild food population would be either wiped out or to a point where people would still be starving to death. We are close to a cashless society now and I am sure that the government would like nothing better than to track every purchase and dime you made, so they can get their "just due" of taxes out of you.) In the future it will be even worse. (I never said it wouldn't. I think it WILL only get worse.) The ability to do something does not equal doing so. (Well, if you have the ability, at some time, it WILL be used. Just like a lot of our stupid laws, they have the ability impose the governments will on us, so they do so. It might have taken time, but eventually, almost everything will be used.) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers And it says that where in Revelations? 13:15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 13:16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 13:17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name. FACT: ABILITY! READ THIS Verachip Approved By FDA FDA OKS implanted medical info chip Chips would reveal patient's allergies, prior treatments Wednesday, October 13, 2004 Posted: 11:24 AM EDT (1524 GMT) http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/13/fda.implant.chip.ap/index.html WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday approved an implantable computer chip that can pass a patient's medical details to doctors, speeding care. VeriChips, radio frequency microchips the size of a grain of rice, have already been used to identify wayward pets and livestock. And nearly 200 people working in Mexico's attorney general's office have been implanted with chips to access secure areas containing sensitive documents. Delray Beach, Florida-based Applied Digital Solutions in July asked the FDA for approval to use the implantable chip for medical uses in the United States. The agency had 60 days to reply to the "de novo" application. It's the first time the FDA has approved the use of the device, though in Mexico, more than 1,000 scannable chips have been implanted in patients. The chip's serial number pulls up the patients' blood type and other medical information. With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code -- similar to the identifying UPC code on products sold in retail stores -- that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over the chip. At the doctor's office those codes stamped onto chips, once scanned, would reveal such information as a patient's allergies and prior treatments. The FDA in October 2002 said that the agency would regulate health care applications possible through VeriChip. Meanwhile, the chip has been used for a number of security-related tasks as well as for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip much like a smartcard to speed drink orders and payment. Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) Through much of history the economy has been global to some degree or another. It iwll be more so 1000 years from now. (Yes, I agree it will be more so later, however, we live in a world where it only takes milliseconds to talk to someone in China, where a 100 years ago, it took weeks to get word to someone. We live in a TRUE global economy now. In the past, if there was a depression in China, it didn't effect the US like it would now. EVERY country is NOW interdependent on each other for economic stability. 60 years ago, that was NOT the case. America could have survived on it's own, if it needed too. We had the actual natural resources, now we don't have enough to feed our own citizens. 60 years ago, we produced enough food to feed ourselves.) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) Again, we will still have that ability in the future. And the ability, again... (And I didn't say it wouldn't happen in the future. No man knows the hour, but for the FIRST time the middle east has the ability to start some nasty.) Further, that may or may not be due to nuclear weapons. However, even if their are nuclear attacks, will that in and of itself mean the endo is near. Why not 1945 then? (Why not 1945? Because the ability to destroy most if not all of the world wasn't there. For the past 40 years that ability has been there, but the middle east was not a player. Now they are going to be.) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) And maybe they will be driven from Israel and return again 500 years from now. (That would be the third nation state. Wouldn't it?) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. Where does it say that???? (In the Bible is in the book of Zechariah, where the Bible says, “This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths” (Zechariah 14:12). The word that is translated into our English word “rot” is the Hebrew word “maqaq,” and it has the meaning of dissolve or melt away. The heat and radiation is so intense that it will melt the eyes in their sockets, the tongues will melt in their mouths and the flesh will melt off their bones before the body can fall to the ground-now that is hot. From my brother-in-laws, study the bible website...12 And this shall be the plague wherewith Jehovah will smite all the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. YOU should study up on your bible!) - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history Again, so what? When all of these events occur it will be obvious, not a patchwork for religious fanatics to try to force together.  IOW, many of the things you note could fit many periods of history and likewise in the future.

Patchwork? That's all you are going to see. You say you want absolute proof. HA! Closing your opinion will NEVER give you absolute proof. You may only want to recognize it when Jesus actually is standing before you. You sound like this...

- Man standing on roof in bad flood...."God please save me"
- Man comes by with a boat..."Do you need help?"
- Man standing on roof says..."No God will answer my prayer"
- Man standing on roof as water gets higher..."God please save me!"
- Man in boat comes by on his way back..."Do you need help?"
- Man on roof..."No, God will answer my prayer"
- Man in boat..."OK"
- Man on roof drowns...stands before God...man asks God, "Why didn't you help me?"...God says, "Why didn't you get in the boat?"

Let's see if I get a reply by mourning.

Historically speaking these are the best of times. Not to worry.

O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth, That I am meek and gentle with these butchers! Thou art the ruins of the noblest man That ever lived in the tide of times. Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood! Over thy wounds now do I prophesy, --- Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips, To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue --- A curse shall light upon the limbs of men; Domestic fury and fierce civil strife Shall cumber all the parts of Italy; Blood and destruction shall be so in use And dreadful objects so familiar That mothers shall but smile when they behold Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war; All pity choked with custom of fell deeds: And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war; That this foul deed shall smell above the earth With carrion men, groaning for burial.    -- William Shakespeare

Truly, these ARE times that test mens' souls...Thomas Paine

Prepare my brethren...hold your loved ones close.  Be ready...for hard times are ahead I fear...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse. Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing. Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history I could go on, but THESE ARE the end times my friend. We may not have the infastructure to fullfil bible prophesy to completion, but we DO have the technology to do what is said and we ARE in the end times right now. Live will be really interesting from now on. Things are NOT going to just get better. They will only get worse and worse on the world stage. Your "personal" life might be "ok", but things are getting worse with no end in sight. So enjoy your life, live for today, make your peace with God and pray for the future, because, even though there is prophesy, it's up to us and it can be changed. Think globally and act locally. You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud. I know what it will take for me to believe the the "end is near" and nothing you have mentioned above is enough.  Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history. No offense. Respectfully DrJarhead...then please explain yourself. You say I am playing fast and loose, then "why" do you think that? Well, that covers a lot of territory, doesn't it? Daniel, Matthew 24, all of Revelations and lots more.  Tough to cover in a post. (You butted in, so give cliff notes. Just saying "tough to cover" tells me that you may be talking out your back side. If you are so sure, cliff notes please.) I will leave it at, it is MO that you are reading things into these prophecies that are not consistent IMO. (Cliff notes? Please)  Same mistake that has been made for thousands of years by plenty. (Yeah, so? People are always going to say it's the end times. That's human nature. The problem is, they base it on emotion instead of looking at current facts. Kind of like when you go to church and the brimstone preacher starts spouting off how you will go to hell today if you don't repent and give him money. Most people talk about end times to control others. I am not doing that. It's something I believe.) I will point out some below. (And NO you don't. You just give a flip answer with no substance) It's pretty easy to just tell people they are doing something. It's a whole other thing to actually back it up. Ever since Jesus came back, we have been in the end times. Oh, rubbish.   You could say the same about Noah, Abraham, David, etc, etc. (How?) If you are not a Christian, then you can believe what ever you want. If you are a Christian, you can believe anything you want. Yes, I can believe whatever I want.   So can you. However, you didn't say you believe we are in the end times, you say we are as if it is a statement of fact. (To me it is fact. And it's what I believe. Anything wrong with that professor? As factual as I have faith that Jesus died for my sins.) Ridiculous. (How? For me? I just know, the middle east is a "real" major player for the first time in history Kind of like the Rise of Islam and the Ottoman Empire, huh? (NO! As in, they are getting the ability to affect the WHOLE world for the first time. With the rise of Islam or the Ottoman Empire, there wasn't the degree that the middle east could control the economies and fates of countries through out the world. If they shut off the oil, EVERYONE will be screwed. THAT'S A MAJOR PLAYER. Not some dickhead dictator or ruler that could affect just their own region.) and I believe bible prophesy is not something that happened in the past... Depends on your POV, I suppose. If not, and I agree with some of that, it does not necessarily mean that it is imminent. (You are really good at slinging a statement with no backing. Once again, cliff notes please.) are you one of those that thinks Armageddon has already happened?...but is happening as we speak. I am wise enough to recognize, based on what is stated in Revelations, that it is possible it already has happened.  I doubt it though. (You sound like my wife when she doesn't want to answer a question. Double speaking again?) And from your "statement", it "sounds" like you don't like Christians very much, or had a bad experience when you were a child. If that happened, I'm sorry it happened. People are people and even so called Christians can act completely opposite to what is explained in the bible. Don't like Christians?  That's ridiculous also. (I said that because of your..."Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate"...comment. How is one suppose to take that? You called it "bullshit".) If you don't believe the bible, then that's your choice, this is America and we have free will. Another incorrect assumption. (Just stating that I understand that you can believe what you want in a free country. That's all.) What I do believe is that most try to make prophecy fit whatever situation they wish to fit it into wnet quite the reverse should be done.  If events don't fit, then they simply don't and trying to beat a square peg in a round hole won't make it fit. (IMO, events DO fit. Israel became a nation once more in 1948. Is that a fact or not? To me it sure does look like one.) You can do what you want, but don't tell me what I can believe. Where did I do that? ("You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud. Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history."...sounds like you were doing just that. No facts, just do this, do that...you are wrong..yada, yada, yada.) You are wrong again. I don't know if Armageddon is going to happen in 5 years, tomorrow or 100 years.... Exactly. And there is nothing to make me think we are there right now. (Good, fine for you. That's YOUR opinion. Not mine.)  Perhaps tomorrow some event will occur that will convince me we are on our way but not yet.  I maintain a watchful, yet skeptical eye.  Just as you and everyone else should. (And I have also, that's why I believe what I am seeing.) I just know, I have seen an explosion of knowledge, just like it says in the bible and I have seen other things that have lead me to believe something is going on. Taken in the context of any previous century that could be said by anyone.  The 20th vs the 19th, 19th vs the 18th, etc.  What about the Renaisance? (Back then it took decades to double the level of knowledge. Today it's around 14 months. They didn't have a "knowledge explosion" back then.) Like I said, we may not have the infracture to do what I explained, but we have the technology to do what the prophets saw. If I am wrong, big deal. I'm not going to quit living my life and having faith in what I believe. Who the Hell asked you to? (My statement was for the "freaked" out reader. You know, the one that stops living and goes into hiding because they think the ski is falling. We all die and the only thing that matters is how you live your life. That's all I was refering too.) You're the one who said, "THESE ARE the end times my friend." (Yep, and I honestly believe that. Bush even thinks his war in Iraq is doing God's will. He's probably right.) You want to live like everything is fine in Denmark, be my guest. I don't have to change your mind. That's not my job. Sure sounds like you are filling out the job application to me. (Nope, you spoke up and told me that I was wrong. You acted like it was your job to change my mind. It's not. You know that. But it's also not my job to change yours. I was just trying to state how I see things going. And you don't see it. Ok, big deal. So we differ in opinions. But don't tell me that I don't know history. I have a pretty firm grasp on it. AND I have talked to those people that think Armaggedon happened already. I don't buy it. At least not from what I have heard from them. They didn't seem to make common sense, based on all of the bible. They just quoted when they wanted, and when I brought up other facts, they would just double talk and change the subject.) And I don't want to live in Denmark! (I don't blame you.) Now: Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) Depending on your point of view, you might have consider the Roman Empire to be able to control all commerce. And plenty of gov'ts since. (That's bull. Only when you can change everyone to a cashless society and track the movement of people can you truly control all commerce. The Romans... That's rich! With electronic transactions, the use of the vera-chip with these transactions and tracking people with GPS implants and RFID tags, we are pretty close to being able to control all commerce now. Also, that type of control includes the food supply. Just like the hybrid seeds they have now, that won't germinate. When safe edible food can be completely controlled by the state, then that will be the final straw. And we are pretty close to that now. What about hunting? Try feeding the whole population on that. There are only so many hunters and there are a LOT more people. Pretty soon after SHTF, the wild food population would be either wiped out or to a point where people would still be starving to death. We are close to a cashless society now and I am sure that the government would like nothing better than to track every purchase and dime you made, so they can get their "just due" of taxes out of you.) In the future it will be even worse. (I never said it wouldn't. I think it WILL only get worse.) The ability to do something does not equal doing so. (Well, if you have the ability, at some time, it WILL be used. Just like a lot of our stupid laws, they have the ability impose the governments will on us, so they do so. It might have taken time, but eventually, almost everything will be used.) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers And it says that where in Revelations? 13:15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 13:16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 13:17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name. FACT: ABILITY! READ THIS Verachip Approved By FDA FDA OKS implanted medical info chip Chips would reveal patient's allergies, prior treatments Wednesday, October 13, 2004 Posted: 11:24 AM EDT (1524 GMT) http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/13/fda.implant.chip.ap/index.html WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday approved an implantable computer chip that can pass a patient's medical details to doctors, speeding care. VeriChips, radio frequency microchips the size of a grain of rice, have already been used to identify wayward pets and livestock. And nearly 200 people working in Mexico's attorney general's office have been implanted with chips to access secure areas containing sensitive documents. Delray Beach, Florida-based Applied Digital Solutions in July asked the FDA for approval to use the implantable chip for medical uses in the United States. The agency had 60 days to reply to the "de novo" application. It's the first time the FDA has approved the use of the device, though in Mexico, more than 1,000 scannable chips have been implanted in patients. The chip's serial number pulls up the patients' blood type and other medical information. With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches. Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code -- similar to the identifying UPC code on products sold in retail stores -- that releases patient-specific information when a scanner passes over the chip. At the doctor's office those codes stamped onto chips, once scanned, would reveal such information as a patient's allergies and prior treatments. The FDA in October 2002 said that the agency would regulate health care applications possible through VeriChip. Meanwhile, the chip has been used for a number of security-related tasks as well as for pure whimsy: Club hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip much like a smartcard to speed drink orders and payment. Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) Through much of history the economy has been global to some degree or another. It iwll be more so 1000 years from now. (Yes, I agree it will be more so later, however, we live in a world where it only takes milliseconds to talk to someone in China, where a 100 years ago, it took weeks to get word to someone. We live in a TRUE global economy now. In the past, if there was a depression in China, it didn't effect the US like it would now. EVERY country is NOW interdependent on each other for economic stability. 60 years ago, that was NOT the case. America could have survived on it's own, if it needed too. We had the actual natural resources, now we don't have enough to feed our own citizens. 60 years ago, we produced enough food to feed ourselves.) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) Again, we will still have that ability in the future. And the ability, again... (And I didn't say it wouldn't happen in the future. No man knows the hour, but for the FIRST time the middle east has the ability to start some nasty.) Further, that may or may not be due to nuclear weapons. However, even if their are nuclear attacks, will that in and of itself mean the endo is near. Why not 1945 then? (Why not 1945? Because the ability to destroy most if not all of the world wasn't there. For the past 40 years that ability has been there, but the middle east was not a player. Now they are going to be.) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) And maybe they will be driven from Israel and return again 500 years from now. (That would be the third nation state. Wouldn't it?) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. Where does it say that???? (In the Bible is in the book of Zechariah, where the Bible says, “This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths” (Zechariah 14:12). The word that is translated into our English word “rot” is the Hebrew word “maqaq,” and it has the meaning of dissolve or melt away. The heat and radiation is so intense that it will melt the eyes in their sockets, the tongues will melt in their mouths and the flesh will melt off their bones before the body can fall to the ground-now that is hot. From my brother-in-laws, study the bible website...12 And this shall be the plague wherewith Jehovah will smite all the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. YOU should study up on your bible!) - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history Again, so what? When all of these events occur it will be obvious, not a patchwork for religious fanatics to try to force together.  IOW, many of the things you note could fit many periods of history and likewise in the future. Patchwork? That's all you are going to see. You say you want absolute proof. HA! Closing your opinion will NEVER give you absolute proof. You may only want to recognize it when Jesus actually is standing before you. You sound like this... - Man standing on roof in bad flood...."God please save me" - Man comes by with a boat..."Do you need help?" - Man standing on roof says..."No God will answer my prayer" - Man standing on roof as water gets higher..."God please save me!" - Man in boat comes by on his way back..."Do you need help?" - Man on roof..."No, God will answer my prayer" - Man in boat..."OK" - Man on roof drowns...stands before God...man asks God, "Why didn't you help me?"...God says, "Why didn't you get in the boat?"

No, that's not how it goes.
God sends a boat, helicopter, etc and then...oh never mind.

Listen, you would have me prove a negative which cannot be done.  How can I prove that the world is not coming to end tomorrow? Only time will tell.

As for knowing my Bible I know it fine.  You should concentrate on that instead of what some whackjob minister somewhere tells you in order to fill the collection plate.  On thing is for sure, I don't try to make shit up out of it.

In any event, nothing you have said is any surprise, only your interpretation (or that of your brother in law) is misguided.  

In any event, nothing you have said is any surprise, only your interpretation (or that of your brother in law) is misguided.

Yeah, in "your" opinion.

The only thing you have proven is that you can speak a contridictive terms. First you say you don't know, then you say I am misguided, then you say you know the bible, then you say you can't prove what you believe.

All talk and no explanation.

Whatever.

All too frequently we use scripture, in particular prophetic scripture, to beat each other up with.  Is that what it was provided for? Think about it.

I find it interesting that the Bible is sometimes literal and sometimes allegorical depending on the argument (and the arguer).

Quoted: The Romans...

At one point in time, Rome controlled most of the civilized world, meaning that only with Roman currency, could people buy and sell. Guess who's picture was on all of those coins? The Beast of Rome, the Emperor.

So before you scoff, maybe some research on John of Patmos and the genesis of Revelations is in order.

Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have.

There were a Number of Incidents during the Cold War in which Nukes were almost launched due either due to a crisis or a False Alarm.

As the number of countries acquire Nuclear Warheads and Missile Technology. The probability of a Nuclear Exchange occuring, will only increase.

Then of course we have Middle Eastern Regimes who are hell bent on acquiring Nukes, and their religion encourages martyrism. (Also a rather unstable regime on the Korean Penisula).

Pakistan and India came pretty close to letting missiles fly.

Its an open question as to when it will happen. I think that the event is certain to happen sooner or later, its just that the time frame is unknown.

Before 9/11 I used to think that a Terrorist Attack on a massive scale (such as the WTC Attack) would have been highly improbable since the perpetrators would have to be suicidal.

This turned out to be a common illusion. There is no shortage of homicidal maniacs in this world, and some of them reach a position of power or acquire a capability for mass destruction.

Quoted: Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have. There were a Number of Incidents during the Cold War in which Nukes were almost launched due either due to a crisis or a False Alarm. As the number of countries acquire Nuclear Warheads and Missile Technology. The probability of a Nuclear Exchange occuring, will only increase. Then of course we have Middle Eastern Regimes who are hell bent on acquiring Nukes, and their religion encourages martyrism. (Also a rather unstable regime on the Korean Penisula). Pakistan and India came pretty close to letting missiles fly. Its an open question as to when it will happen. I think that the event is certain to happen sooner or later, its just that the time frame is unknown. Before 9/11 I used to think that a Terrorist Attack on a massive scale (such as the WTC Attack) would have been highly improbable since the perpetrators would have to be suicidal. This turned out to be a common illusion. There is no shortage of homicidal maniacs in this world, and some of them reach a position of power or acquire a capability for mass destruction.

+1 Really its just a matter of time - not much though.

Quoted: Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have. There were a Number of Incidents during the Cold War in which Nukes were almost launched due either due to a crisis or a False Alarm. As the number of countries acquire Nuclear Warheads and Missile Technology. The probability of a Nuclear Exchange occuring, will only increase. Then of course we have Middle Eastern Regimes who are hell bent on acquiring Nukes, and their religion encourages martyrism. (Also a rather unstable regime on the Korean Penisula). Pakistan and India came pretty close to letting missiles fly. Its an open question as to when it will happen. I think that the event is certain to happen sooner or later, its just that the time frame is unknown. Before 9/11 I used to think that a Terrorist Attack on a massive scale (such as the WTC Attack) would have been highly improbable since the perpetrators would have to be suicidal. This turned out to be a common illusion. There is no shortage of homicidal maniacs in this world, and some of them reach a position of power or acquire a capability for mass destruction.

I agree that it is just a matter of time. However, the use of nuclear weapons does not equal TEOTWAWKI unless used on a large scale.  
WWIII does seem a near certainly in the somewhat distant future as you can see the lead up events similar to those occurring prior to WWII.  Still wouldn't equal TEOTWAWKI either. Just depends on how it all goes down.

BIG!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have. There were a Number of Incidents during the Cold War in which Nukes were almost launched due either due to a crisis or a False Alarm. As the number of countries acquire Nuclear Warheads and Missile Technology. The probability of a Nuclear Exchange occuring, will only increase. Then of course we have Middle Eastern Regimes who are hell bent on acquiring Nukes, and their religion encourages martyrism. (Also a rather unstable regime on the Korean Penisula). Pakistan and India came pretty close to letting missiles fly. Its an open question as to when it will happen. I think that the event is certain to happen sooner or later, its just that the time frame is unknown. Before 9/11 I used to think that a Terrorist Attack on a massive scale (such as the WTC Attack) would have been highly improbable since the perpetrators would have to be suicidal. This turned out to be a common illusion. There is no shortage of homicidal maniacs in this world, and some of them reach a position of power or acquire a capability for mass destruction. I agree that it is just a matter of time. However, the use of nuclear weapons does not equal TEOTWAWKI unless used on a large scale.   WWIII does seem a near certainly in the somewhat distant future as you can see the lead up events similar to those occurring prior to WWII.  Still wouldn't equal TEOTWAWKI either. Just depends on how it all goes down.

A long slow spiral down... A global economic crisis certainly would work to speed things along.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have. There were a Number of Incidents during the Cold War in which Nukes were almost launched due either due to a crisis or a False Alarm. As the number of countries acquire Nuclear Warheads and Missile Technology. The probability of a Nuclear Exchange occuring, will only increase. Then of course we have Middle Eastern Regimes who are hell bent on acquiring Nukes, and their religion encourages martyrism. (Also a rather unstable regime on the Korean Penisula). Pakistan and India came pretty close to letting missiles fly. Its an open question as to when it will happen. I think that the event is certain to happen sooner or later, its just that the time frame is unknown. Before 9/11 I used to think that a Terrorist Attack on a massive scale (such as the WTC Attack) would have been highly improbable since the perpetrators would have to be suicidal. This turned out to be a common illusion. There is no shortage of homicidal maniacs in this world, and some of them reach a position of power or acquire a capability for mass destruction. I agree that it is just a matter of time. However, the use of nuclear weapons does not equal TEOTWAWKI unless used on a large scale.   WWIII does seem a near certainly in the somewhat distant future as you can see the lead up events similar to those occurring prior to WWII.  Still wouldn't equal TEOTWAWKI either. Just depends on how it all goes down. A long slow spiral down... A global economic crisis certainly would work to speed things along.

And that would seem to be more inevitable than WWIII.