You cannot run your car on hydrogen - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - You cannot run your car on hydrogen (Page 2 of 7)

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:45:19 PM EDT

[#1]

As for alternators only generating enough electricity as needed for the given load and no more, I don't think so. They can/do generate excess.
We had a problem with trams at the park I worked at killing their batteries while at idle because of all the running lights. Somebody came up with the idea of changing the pulley ratio to get more rpms at idle to generate enough power. Somebody else stole his idea, submitted it under a "cost savings" incentive program, and got a bonus check. First guy then got stuck with retrofitting all the trams.
Come to find out, worked great at idle but burned out the alternator at normal speeds.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:45:35 PM EDT

[#2]

holy shit......I can't believe this.

It will not work, no matter what is being said by anyone.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:46:31 PM EDT

[#3]

I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:46:33 PM EDT

[#4]

somewhere, the great chemists of ages past are spinning in their graves

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:46:47 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

wrong sir. the alternator output is based on needed load. if you shut off the accessories, you decrease the load on the alternator and thus the load on the engine. You increase the load on the alternator you increase the load on the alternator. the alternator DOES NOT put out its maximum rated power all the time. there is no "excess" energy to tap

its the same thing if you turn your AC off

You posted before I'd finished adding more to my last posting. You said essentially what I was typing, so no, I'm not wrong.

I've been working in electronics and electricity for thirty years now. By now I sort of understand how it works.

Boy, has your boss been getting ripped off.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:47:16 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
It must be true, the scummy red neck at the gas station with his POS truck told me so. No kidding!

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:47:31 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
As for alternators only generating enough electricity as needed for the given load and no more, I don't think so. They can/do generate excess.
We had a problem with trams at the park I worked at killing their batteries while at idle because of all the running lights. Somebody came up with the idea of changing the pulley ratio to get more rpms at idle to generate enough power. Somebody else stole his idea, submitted it under a "cost savings" incentive program, and got a bonus check. First guy then got stuck with retrofitting all the trams.
Come to find out, worked great at idle but burned out the alternator at normal speeds.

sounds like they over rev'd the alternator

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:47:40 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I know someone who is convinced they've solved the world energy crisis.

1) Get an electric car with two banks of batteries.
2) Charge both banks.
3) Run on bank A until it is drained.
4) Switch to bank B.
5) Use an alternator to charge bank A as you drive on the power from bank B.

ZOMG ETERNAL ENERGY!!!!!one!!...

Net loss....you my extend the range but, both do go dry.

you'd actually reduce the range than if you just ran both banks dry due to losses in the charging system

Likely....everything increases drag on resources. An idea a friend had a bit back involved running some air intakes to spin what he called 'mini-generators'. I asked him to find out how much it'd cost him to get 4, or so....since they were non-standard designs. He sorta dropped the project.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:47:58 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

I hope you didn't let them work on your car.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:49:25 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
somewhere, the great chemists of ages past are spinning in their graves

We should find a way to harness that wasted energy...

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:49:30 PM EDT

[#11]

Next, you guys are going to try to tell me that turning off my lights will cause the power plant emissions to decrease.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:49:55 PM EDT

[#12]

Better be careful, the oil companies will send out the HSLD operators rapelling out of black helicopters to your house....this shit isn't supposed to be talked about.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:50:07 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

Then those guys should be able to chip in and buy you a team membership.

I have drinking buddies who have been to Cambodia during the Viet Nam War who are 40. Doesn't make it true because they said so.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:50:15 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
somewhere, the great chemists of ages past are spinning in their graves

We should find a way to harness that wasted energy...

Harnessing Democrats????

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:50:23 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

how about some independent and verified tests.

I can get a 3-4 mpg gain on my car by turning the AC off during the winter months.

Install device in the late fall, ac gets killed for the winter, bam increase in gas mileage. this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't constitute proof

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:51:10 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Next, you guys are going to try to tell me that turning off my lights will cause the power plant emissions to decrease.

apples and oranges, not the same thing

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:52:16 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Better be careful, the oil companies will send out the HSLD operators rapelling out of black helicopters to your house....this shit isn't supposed to be talked about.

Dogs will die this night... I feel it in my bones.

ETA: the Magic 8 Ball confirmed it!

All signs point to yes!

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:52:59 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

how about some independent and verified tests.

I can get a 3-4 mpg gain on my car by turning the AC off during the winter months.

Install device in the late fall, ac gets killed for the winter, bam increase in gas mileage. this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't constitute proof

So? I get 3-4 mpg gain in my truck by turning the A/C off during the summer months & going with 2-55 A/C: 2 windows down at 55mph!!

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:53:11 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
somewhere, the great chemists of ages past are spinning in their graves

We should find a way to harness that wasted energy...

Harnessing Democrats????

Unfortunately Democrats are bad for emmissions....you'll fail IM every time.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:53:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well, You can but you cant use hydrogen command technology to power your vehicle. You cant add a bottle of water and use electricity to make hydrogen to improve your gas milage. It wont work. Dont be stupid. It breaks the frist law of thermodynamics. If I have to convice one more person that these products that put hydrogen into your intake dont work, Im gona go spider monkey on there ass.

You can run your car on just the hydrogen you make with electrolysis but the equipment would be so large everybody would need to drive a semi truck.
But your right,no little do-dad can make enough hydrogen to be very helpful

hydrogen can work if we have a proliferation of nuclear power, but why use hydrogen when you can just use the electricity

Not everybody has or will buy and elec. car..... but everyone has a car that would run on hydrogen.
If we could swap the gas tank for a tank of compressed hydrogen gas it could work.
But like you said,it will take a lot of power to make enough hydrogen.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:54:03 PM EDT

[#21]

CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:56:28 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

how about some independent and verified tests.

I can get a 3-4 mpg gain on my car by turning the AC off during the winter months.

Install device in the late fall, ac gets killed for the winter, bam increase in gas mileage. this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't constitute proof

So? I get 3-4 mpg gain in my truck by turning the A/C off during the summer months & going with 2-55 A/C: 2 windows down at 55mph!!

nope, need to have the windows up. the drag penalty would eat that up

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:56:32 PM EDT

[#23]

Y'all know why Jegs and Summitt sell oversized alternator pulleys to guys looking for performance gains?

Well it is the same reason that this won't work.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:56:39 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

That's not what people are saying.

They are saying there's an excess of energy in the form of electricity to be used, if not it would just go to waste heat.

I don't believe alternators have "on demand" regulators. It's spinning if the engine is spinning..

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:57:17 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm thinking that cmjohnson has the right idea. The electricity needed is excess from the alternator.

What excess energy? Please explain. Remember you car will produce as much power as it needs to move. no more, no less. If it produces more, you speed up. If you produce less, you slow down. As I said in the above post, if you pull more power off your alternator, you will decrease your gas milage.

So I can improve my gas mileage by turning my radio off?

Yes. But nothing you will notice. Your radio probably pull about 12 watts. 12 watts from about 7500 watts. Do the math. Why do you think turning off your AC will slightly improve your gas milage.

Don't try to jack me Bud, I'm an educated man. Turning off your AC improves gas mileage because running your AC pulls more air into the car compressing the air in the back seat. Compressed air is more dense then non-compressed air, so the air in the back pushes down against the rear axle, moving weight off the front end, affecting steering. Since you have to steer more aggressively to make up for this difference, your power steering uses more power. DUh.

For my next trick, I'll balance the federal budget.

I really hope this is sarcasm

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:57:33 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

wrong sir. the alternator output is based on needed load. if you shut off the accessories, you decrease the load on the alternator and thus the load on the engine. You increase the load on the alternator you increase the load on the alternator. the alternator DOES NOT put out its maximum rated power all the time. there is no "excess" energy to tap

its the same thing if you turn your AC off

You posted before I'd finished adding more to my last posting. You said essentially what I was typing, so no, I'm not wrong.

I've been working in electronics and electricity for thirty years now. By now I sort of understand how it works.

This is so full of fail. Its like saying generators don't use more fuel when they are loaded or the coal power plant doesn't use more coal at peak hours. Or your car uses the same amount of gas when it has 1000lbs in it as it does when it has 3000lbs in it.

And even if your alternator did have this magic free energy. You would get about as much boost as if you followed Obama's plan to inflate your tires.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:57:40 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
You're so wrong on this is isn't even funny.

Let me explain why:

You're not getting something for nothing.

What's happening is you're getting a boost by using SURPLUS electrical energy from the car's alternator system to electrolyze water into
hydrogen and oxygen. That hydrogen and oxygen is then directed into the engine as a supplemental charge IN ADDITION TO the normal
fuel/air mixture.

This DOES, if PROPERLY engineered and executed, result in a noticeable increase in mileage per gallon because some of the energy is
coming from hydrogen burning.

What makes this economical is the fact that water is CHEAP. Essentially FREE in the amounts consumed.

No laws of thermodynamics are violated. You're just using an extremely cheap source (water) of hydrogen and oxygen and using electrical
energy from the car's electrical system to break the water down into hydrogen and oxygen.

There's no miracle here. Just two fuels mixed and one's from CHEAP WATER.

You fail because you're wrong. Sorry!

CJ

Let me try to explain the problem with that…

(I’m going to imagine that everything in my thought experiment runs at 100% efficiency. In reality there are always inefficiencies that rob you of power.)

Imagine a 100 volt output, 1,000 watt generator hooked up to a stationary bicycle. So, you get on and start peddling. Amazingly it’s very easy to turn the generator. You look at the volt meter and see that you are up to 100 volts. That was easy you think as you easily peddle away. So you turn on a light switch to a 100 watt lamp… All of a sudden it feels like you hit a brick wall. The bike becomes very difficult to peddle. Why?

Well, a generator works when coils of wire are moved through a magnetic field. This causes a voltage to be induced on the wire. Voltage can be thought of as pressure. The magnetic fields are making the electrons in the wire “want” to move. But there’s nowhere for them to go so they just sit there doing nothing.

Then you create a path for the electrons when you turn on a light, so the electrons start to move. This movement is called current. (Voltage is pressure, current is rate of flow, and power is the work done.) And when a current moves through a wire it creates a magnetic field. The magnetic field created actually opposes the magnetic field that creates the voltage. The result is that the generator gets harder to turn in direct proportion to how much power is being used.

If you electrolyze water you are using some power to split the atoms. If that power comes from the alternator then the alternator gets harder to turn forcing the engine to work harder… in other words, it won’t work.

That being said, it is possible that the hydrogen somehow improves the efficiency of the gasoline engine. I’ll admit I don’t know enough to know if this is possible or not.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:58:05 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm thinking that cmjohnson has the right idea. The electricity needed is excess from the alternator.

What excess energy? Please explain. Remember you car will produce as much power as it needs to move. no more, no less. If it produces more, you speed up. If you produce less, you slow down. As I said in the above post, if you pull more power off your alternator, you will decrease your gas milage.

So I can improve my gas mileage by turning my radio off?

Yes. But nothing you will notice. Your radio probably pull about 12 watts. 12 watts from about 7500 watts. Do the math. Why do you think turning off your AC will slightly improve your gas milage.

Only works if your willing to drive with the windows up,other wise windows down is more burden on the vehicle due to drag.

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:58:14 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

how about some independent and verified tests.

I can get a 3-4 mpg gain on my car by turning the AC off during the winter months.

Install device in the late fall, ac gets killed for the winter, bam increase in gas mileage. this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't constitute proof

So? I get 3-4 mpg gain in my truck by turning the A/C off during the summer months & going with 2-55 A/C: 2 windows down at 55mph!!

nope, need to have the windows up. the drag penalty would eat that up

HOLY SHIT, the 120-degree summer heat would BURN me up!!

The empty space between my ears tends to cancel out the drag...

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:59:06 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Y'all know why Jegs and Summitt sell oversized alternator pulleys to guys looking for performance gains?

Well it is the same reason that this won't work.

Maybe because the stock alternator won't output enough energy for their row of floodlights, upgraded ignition system, and other add-ons?

Posted: 6/9/2009 6:59:31 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well, You can but you cant use hydrogen command technology to power your vehicle. You cant add a bottle of water and use electricity to make hydrogen to improve your gas milage. It wont work. Dont be stupid. It breaks the frist law of thermodynamics. If I have to convice one more person that these products that put hydrogen into your intake dont work, Im gona go spider monkey on there ass.

You can run your car on just the hydrogen you make with electrolysis but the equipment would be so large everybody would need to drive a semi truck.
But your right,no little do-dad can make enough hydrogen to be very helpful

hydrogen can work if we have a proliferation of nuclear power, but why use hydrogen when you can just use the electricity

Not everybody has or will buy and elec. car..... but everyone has a car that would run on hydrogen.
If we could swap the gas tank for a tank of compressed hydrogen gas it could work.
But like you said,it will take a lot of power to make enough hydrogen.

if they could make an electric car with the same range and characteristics as my current vehicle (Impreza RS) I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:00:27 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I have several Mechanic friends that have done this to their older cars and are seeing a 3-4 mpg gain in mileage.

so now what?

They're bullshitting you and have to save face because their contraptions can't produce enough hydrogen to add a useful fraction of energy to the engine in addition to the gasoline being burned.

It's impossible. The maximum energy output of the alternator is the limiting factor. All y'all that think there is an "excess" of energy from an alternator left over after the battry and the rest of the vehicle consume their share are talking about even tinier fractions, about the same contribution as pissing in the ocean.

I put up a $1000 dollar challenge last summer that didn't get answered. It's starting to get hot in Texas, maybe it's time to renew the bet.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:00:42 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

That's not what people are saying.

They are saying there's an excess of energy in the form of electricity to be used, if not it would just go to waste heat.

I don't believe alternators have "on demand" regulators. It's spinning if the engine is spinning..

Put an alternator on the front wheel of a stationary bike and hook it up to something that requires alot of electricity to run.

Start pedaling the bike. Now have someone switch the appliance on. See what happens.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:01:27 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Y'all know why Jegs and Summitt sell oversized alternator pulleys to guys looking for performance gains?

Well it is the same reason that this won't work.

Maybe because the stock alternator won't output enough energy for their row of floodlights, upgraded ignition system, and other add-ons?

LOL

OVERSIZED slows the rpm of the alt, there by making it easier to turn. It puts out LESS power. They do this because it robs HORSEPOWER to generate that electricity.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:01:40 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

That's not what people are saying.

They are saying there's an excess of energy in the form of electricity to be used, if not it would just go to waste heat.

I don't believe alternators have "on demand" regulators. It's spinning if the engine is spinning..

Put an alternator on the front wheel of a stationary bike and hook it up to something that requires alot of electricity to run.

Start pedaling the bike. Now have someone switch the appliance on. See what happens.

FREE ENERGY!!! Does this work on diesel-powered trucks?

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:03:17 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

-snip-

CJ

Let me try to explain the problem with that…

(I’m going to imagine that everything in my thought experiment runs at 100% efficiency. In reality there are always inefficiencies that rob you of power.)

Imagine a 100 volt output, 1,000 watt generator hooked up to a stationary bicycle. So, you get on and start peddling. Amazingly it’s very easy to turn the generator. You look at the volt meter and see that you are up to 100 volts. That was easy you think as you easily peddle away. So you turn on a light switch to a 100 watt lamp… All of a sudden it feels like you hit a brick wall. The bike becomes very difficult to peddle. Why?

Well, a generator works when coils of wire are moved through a magnetic field. This causes a voltage to be induced on the wire. Voltage can be thought of as pressure. The magnetic fields are making the electrons in the wire “want” to move. But there’s nowhere for them to go so they just sit there doing nothing.

Then you create a path for the electrons when you turn on a light, so the electrons start to move. This movement is called current. (Voltage is pressure, current is rate of flow, and power is the work done.) And when a current moves through a wire it creates a magnetic field. The magnetic field created actually opposes the magnetic field that creates the voltage. The result is that the generator gets harder to turn in direct proportion to how much power is being used.

If you electrolyze water you are using some power to split the atoms. If that power comes from the alternator then the alternator gets harder to turn forcing the engine to work harder… in other words, it won’t work.

That being said, it is possible that the hydrogen somehow improves the efficiency of the gasoline engine. I’ll admit I don’t know enough to know if this is possible or not.

Sounds like something that is easily tested.

Setup the bike, have someone pedaling without being able to observe the lightbulb or switch. Measure the effort by questioning him, or directly through his rate of O2 consumption both with and without the light on.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:04:56 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Y'all know why Jegs and Summitt sell oversized alternator pulleys to guys looking for performance gains?

Well it is the same reason that this won't work.

Maybe because the stock alternator won't output enough energy for their row of floodlights, upgraded ignition system, and other add-ons?

LOL

OVERSIZED slows the rpm of the alt, there by making it easier to turn. It puts out LESS power. They do this because it robs HORSEPOWER to generate that electricity.

Whoops I read "Oversized alternators" not oversized alternator pulleys.

FML

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:05:01 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

That's not what people are saying.

They are saying there's an excess of energy in the form of electricity to be used, if not it would just go to waste heat.

I don't believe alternators have "on demand" regulators. It's spinning if the engine is spinning..

alternators have a regulator onboard that measures the voltage between the stator and the battery voltages. if there is an imbalance, the regulator adjusts the current to the field coil to increase or decrease the demand on the alternator.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:05:37 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

That's not what people are saying.

They are saying there's an excess of energy in the form of electricity to be used, if not it would just go to waste heat.

I don't believe alternators have "on demand" regulators. It's spinning if the engine is spinning..

When you load the alternator the engine has to produce more energy to turn it. This is done by the fuel regulator at idol or your foot on the peddle when you are going.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:05:41 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
CM, if this works... if using an engine to turn an alternator to create hydrogen from water creates more energy in producing the hydrogen than it uses in fuel to do the same, as evidenced in the increased "mileage," then it should logically be possible to run an IC engine forever simply by continually topping off the water tank.

I'll wager you 10 USGI 30 rounders that the engine will eventually run out of fuel. For purposes of the test, the engine will remain at idle throughout the test.

Do you agree?

That's not what people are saying.

They are saying there's an excess of energy in the form of electricity to be used, if not it would just go to waste heat.

I don't believe alternators have "on demand" regulators. It's spinning if the engine is spinning..

Put an alternator on the front wheel of a stationary bike and hook it up to something that requires alot of electricity to run.

Start pedaling the bike. Now have someone switch the appliance on. See what happens.

Exactly.

Ask anybody who owns a truck with a winch, if a stalled winch won't cause an alt to rob the shit out of the RPMs of a motor

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:06:14 PM EDT

[#41]

I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:08:16 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
i am having trouble visualizing how something that condenses when it burns would be beneficial to the process.

At that temperature, it stays a gas (I'm not necessarily agreeing with the idea of using hydrogen).

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:08:54 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

too complicated...I am working on a faith based system...just get behind the car and shout "The power of Christ propels you!!! The power of Christ propels you!!!"

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:09:10 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

someone needs to start writing these down and compiling them into a book.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:09:49 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

too complicated...I am working on a faith based system...just get behind the car and shout "The power of Christ propels you!!! The power of Christ propels you!!!"

Use "Holy water" maybe?

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:10:21 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

too complicated...I am working on a faith based system...just get behind the car and shout "The power of Christ propels you!!! The power of Christ propels you!!!"

Use "Holy water" maybe?

touche

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:10:36 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm thinking that cmjohnson has the right idea. The electricity needed is excess from the alternator.

What excess energy? Please explain. Remember you car will produce as much power as it needs to move. no more, no less. If it produces more, you speed up. If you produce less, you slow down. As I said in the above post, if you pull more power off your alternator, you will decrease your gas milage.

So I can improve my gas mileage by turning my radio off?

Yes. But nothing you will notice. Your radio probably pull about 12 watts. 12 watts from about 7500 watts. Do the math. Why do you think turning off your AC will slightly improve your gas milage.

Don't try to jack me Bud, I'm an educated man. Turning off your AC improves gas mileage because running your AC pulls more air into the car compressing the air in the back seat. Compressed air is more dense then non-compressed air, so the air in the back pushes down against the rear axle, moving weight off the front end, affecting steering. Since you have to steer more aggressively to make up for this difference, your power steering uses more power. DUh.

For my next trick, I'll balance the federal budget.

I really hope this is sarcasm

Me too. I don't know shit about balancing the federal budget.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:10:36 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

Think I saw one of those on the tv. It was about as real as the other thing being discussed. The guy who had it was named Doc Brown. He also had a time machine.

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:13:57 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have an idea for an engine that use hydrogen. It uses a heater to ever so slightly heat hydrogen until it fuses together to form helium. That will power the vehicle, and with some moderate insulation we should be good to go.

someone needs to start writing these down and compiling them into a book.

I think it's a good idea....and at least you'd blow clean

Posted: 6/9/2009 7:17:28 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You're so wrong on this is isn't even funny.

Let me explain why:
You're not getting something for nothing.

What's happening is you're getting a boost by using SURPLUS electrical energy from the car's alternator system to electrolyze water into

hydrogen and oxygen. That hydrogen and oxygen is then directed into the engine as a supplemental charge IN ADDITION TO the normal

fuel/air mixture.

This DOES, if PROPERLY engineered and executed, result in a noticeable increase in mileage per gallon because some of the energy is

coming from hydrogen burning.

What makes this economical is the fact that water is CHEAP. Essentially FREE in the amounts consumed.

No laws of thermodynamics are violated. You're just using an extremely cheap source (water) of hydrogen and oxygen and using electrical

energy from the car's electrical system to break the water down into hydrogen and oxygen.

There's no miracle here. Just two fuels mixed and one's from CHEAP WATER.

You fail because you're wrong. Sorry!

CJ

Let me try to explain the problem with that…

(I’m going to imagine that everything in my thought experiment runs at 100% efficiency. In reality there are always inefficiencies that rob you of power.)

Imagine a 100 volt output, 1,000 watt generator hooked up to a stationary bicycle. So, you get on and start peddling. Amazingly it’s very easy to turn the generator. You look at the volt meter and see that you are up to 100 volts. That was easy you think as you easily peddle away. So you turn on a light switch to a 100 watt lamp… All of a sudden it feels like you hit a brick wall. The bike becomes very difficult to peddle. Why?

Well, a generator works when coils of wire are moved through a magnetic field. This causes a voltage to be induced on the wire. Voltage can be thought of as pressure. The magnetic fields are making the electrons in the wire “want” to move. But there’s nowhere for them to go so they just sit there doing nothing.

Then you create a path for the electrons when you turn on a light, so the electrons start to move. This movement is called current. (Voltage is pressure, current is rate of flow, and power is the work done.) And when a current moves through a wire it creates a magnetic field. The magnetic field created actually opposes the magnetic field that creates the voltage. The result is that the generator gets harder to turn in direct proportion to how much power is being used.

If you electrolyze water you are using some power to split the atoms. If that power comes from the alternator then the alternator gets harder to turn forcing the engine to work harder… in other words, it won’t work.

That being said, it is possible that the hydrogen somehow improves the efficiency of the gasoline engine. I’ll admit I don’t know enough to know if this is possible or not.

Damn you Thubian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you post an actual thoughtful, well reasoned and easily understood scientific explanation to a discussion in GD. I am going to report your @ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - You cannot run your car on hydrogen (Page 2 of 7)

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