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Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:04:56 AM EDT
The grenade launcher and rifle are completely independent, and can be used as such.  The HK G36 (the 10" 5.56 rifle portion of the gun is just a hk g36 with an ugly body)has a folding stock to make it fully usable on its own.  I have read that the intent is/was to replace all infantry weapons(except long range sniper) with this gun.  Although it wouldn't necessarily be issued complete to each soldier.  The HK G36 portion is supposed to be given in place of the SAW with 100rd drum mags.  Average soldier gets just the rifle, and someone gets a grenade launcher(in place of the M79 or HK 40mm).  They can be combined if necessary.  More of the clinton joint multiuse crap(like the JDAMs, JASSMs, and JSFs).  Hopefully it won't be issued in 2005 like it has been previously stated.
The Clinton administration figured making one weapon everyone used would give him the ability to spend more money on liberal crap instead of the military.  I mean, the navy, air force, and marines are all supposed to use the ONE Joint Strike Fighter design in the future.  

Come on, they need to use the right tool for the job.

I personally think a new infantry weapon should be developed using today's technology.  But the OICW isn't it.  Also, anything battery powered on a service rifle can't be good.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 12:39:58 PM EDT
Can somebody tell me Why the US Army want to replace the M16 M203?
I am Italian so I don't know very well how the OICW program goes...can some body tell me?
Thank You guys..
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:39:33 PM EDT
Another political connection to a guv..contract........as jewbroni said..."starship troopers" that`s just about what it looks like.......the dudes probably watched each episode about 3 times.....[smoke]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:43:44 PM EDT
We are going to go to war against a bunch of jungle dwellers or simple desert folk that have AK-47s, [i]AND WE ARE GOING TO GET OUR ASSES KICKED!![/i]  This is totally ridiculous and is a good example of our military going down the tubes.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:54:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stubbs:
We are going to go to war against a bunch of jungle dwellers or simple desert folk that have AK-47s, [i]AND WE ARE GOING TO GET OUR ASSES KICKED!![/i]  This is totally ridiculous and is a good example of our military going down the tubes.
View Quote
                                               i`m gettin me a full auto ak and drywallin it inbetween the closet and bedroom with a few k`s worth of russian......[smoke]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 3:56:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By black&green:
Originally Posted By stubbs:
We are going to go to war against a bunch of jungle dwellers or simple desert folk that have AK-47s, [i]AND WE ARE GOING TO GET OUR ASSES KICKED!![/i]  This is totally ridiculous and is a good example of our military going down the tubes.
View Quote
                                               i`m gettin me a full auto ak and drywallin it inbetween the closet and bedroom with a few k`s worth of russian......[smoke]
View Quote



ooooookaaayyy.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 4:24:51 PM EDT
I heard, I think, that a guy was killed recently when they were down at the Proving Grounds in MD.  I think it was when a 20 mm grenade, computer controlled detenation(rangefinder), screwed up and exploded shortly afetr leaving the barrel, VERY SHORTLY. I'm not 100% on that though. So ANYBODY?

I do pitty the poor bastard whos gets issued this hummer though.DAMN!
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 4:47:45 PM EDT
I think that this gun has a lot of potential, however it also needs a lot of improvement.  First off it needs to be much lighter.  You guys are right about not wanting to carry around a 20+lbs rifle.  However, I have faith in the program.  Of course, I also have faith in the V-22 Osprey program[:D]

mattjedi[x]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:08:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stacked:
I heard, I think, that a guy was killed recently when they were down at the Proving Grounds in MD.  I think it was when a 20 mm grenade, computer controlled detenation(rangefinder), screwed up and exploded shortly afetr leaving the barrel, VERY SHORTLY. I'm not 100% on that though. So ANYBODY?

I do pitty the poor bastard whos gets issued this hummer though.DAMN!
View Quote



Yep! A tester was killed at APG either last year or the year before. The 20mm went off before it left the tube (or so I heard locally)
Pretty much blew his face off. Another tech standing nearby was seriously injured.
Like I said, it's crap. They have a hard enough time properly training soldiers to fight with standard weapons like the M16/M4. Now they will have to be technicians or engineers first and soldiers second.
Don't worry - I hear it's been canned.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 5:40:06 PM EDT
Well speaking positively, the M-16A1 started out as a real piece also, jamming regularly, costing many men their lives during Vietnam, this Starship Troopers looking hunk of steel MAY evolve into a fine weapon.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 6:49:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Straz:
Well speaking positively, the M-16A1 started out as a real piece also, jamming regularly, costing many men their lives during Vietnam, this Starship Troopers looking hunk of steel MAY evolve into a fine weapon.
View Quote



To some extent that's true. However the M16's problems were fairly simple to resolve: chrome line the bore and chamber, and issue cleaning kits and train soldiers to clean them. Oh yeah, and use a cleaner burning powder.
With the OICW, the very technology that the weapon depends on is not yet practical. Particularly, making sure the 20MM round airbursts at exactly the right time, with the directional charge pointing down, while over the target. Keep in mind this thing is spinning fast and traveling at who knows what velocity. A little timing circuitry malfunction could cause the projectile to detonate at the wrong time, I would think, maybe even before it left the bore of the weapon, much less over the enemy. Also keep in mind, the weapon has to be dead-ass reliable, even after being crawled with through mud, sand, dirt, etc. and exposed to water, if not submerged. It still has to work. What if the friggin batteries go dead and you haven't been replenished with fresh ones, now you have a very big very heavy machine gun with a puny little 10" barrel.  No way was this designed by anyone who will ever have to depend with their life on it.  Give it 20 years or so and it might be a different story. For now it's crap.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 7:04:28 PM EDT
reminds me of the 'golden hind' (i think that was the name) a ship commissioned by henry the 8th.  he had so many cannon placed on board, the ship sank on it's first voyage into the water in mild winds.  ah, our tax dollars at work.

i think it is a ruse - possibley valid in 20 years, but for now the pulse and frequency weapons will be far more deadly and quicker to develop than these.  bullets?  who needs those when you can shoot a pulse beam in to a room and make everyone bleed through every hole in their now defunct heads?

or have a beam that ruptures water capsules in the human body, are you gonna fight with your WTSHTF ar15 and stash o' preban mags when your insides are jello and none of your organs work?

and what of the military's holographic 'mind weapons'?  500ft images of the virgin mary, or just  spray the 'smart dust' guidable micro implants over a battlefield, and set the frequency at h.a.a.r.p. and you can have an entire army (or civil population) at your command emotionally.

steve
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 7:19:09 PM EDT
Damn Steve!  After reading your post I hope I can sleep tonight without nightmares....
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 7:32:59 PM EDT
hmmm... imagine Iraq's reaction to about 70 of these storming in over their shore lines...
[img]http://www.jacksonville.net/~dan1972/katoki29.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:25:44 PM EDT
I think the gun in aliens had 10mm grenades and something like 5mm caseless bullets of course it also had a 100 rnd/10 grenade capacity and wasn't quite as bulky looking.

I thought the OICW was scrapped, and prior to that it was to be issued as a light support weapon, 1 or 2 per squad or platoon. $10,000 price tag. They justified that by saying a fully combat ready rifle costs $3500, including optics, bayonet, magazines etc.

I don't know how bad it would be to carry, but it looks awful bulky. It just seems that they packed as many gizmo's on it as possible. Gizmos don't work that good in combat. Why not an M-16 upper with a 20 mm grenade launcher mounted under barrell like an M-203. The 20 mm should be semi or pump. The rounds should be "dummy" type that arm so far away after being fired and explode on contact. It should maybe have a bipod and optical sighting system. 16 lbs should be the max weight-loaded.

Whats the weight of an M4/M203 loaded and an M-16/m-203 loaded?? if anyone knows

Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:42:57 AM EDT
Steve, the Golden Hind was Sir Fancis Drake's ride.

The Dutch, or the Danes, I forget which, built a ship like you describe.  The lower level of cannon doors were open, it heeled around....I read about it in National Geographic.  Here's a link where it happened to the Swedes, too:[url]dossantos.cbpa.louisville.edu/courses/cis675/vasa/index.htm[/url]
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