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Posted: 9/19/2009 1:07:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sure, if they're actually proud to be here and to be Americans. Most aren't, so fuck them. I don't doubt that if the whole "legalize all the illegals" route goes through, plenty of them will leave - they're just here for the free cookies and punch, as it were. Getting legalized would fuck that all up for them. Don't think so. They'd probably want to become more like Americans than they do now. Why? They'd have to pay for everything they get for free now, and if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't be illegals in the first place, they would have come into the country legally and undertaken the appropriate steps to become legal. Most of the illegals I've worked with had no desire to "become American", they were just here for the jobs and free medical benefits. Most will either find some way to hide from legalization, or hop back over the border to come back later. Mexicans would rather be legal and pay for all their medical services themselves than not. You talk about coming into the US legally, but you don't get it. America has made it impossible for people to come here legally and go through the process of becoming a citizen. There is no hope and no chance most of them could even hope to become a citizen with our screwed up system.
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Posted: 9/19/2009 1:09:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, one of the reasons business wants them here is because we can abuse them, and pay them less. They don't bitch to OSHA or complain about working 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden. There are many cases where employers hold pay for a month, then report the aliens for deportation. (sometimes it backfires, but it still happens).If they are legalized most of the arguments against them would end. They will be just as American as any of us. Bout the only thing you could complain about is just normal stuff any of us might have about anyone. Once you legalize them, business needs a whole new pool of illegals who wont bitch to OSHA and will work 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden. It's a cycle that will restart the day after amnesty with a nifferent population of illegals. Then you have 30 million newly minted citizens that need to find new jobs as lower waged illegals put them out of work. It's happened every time, and it'll happen every time. That's a very good point. Another reason not to give them amnesty.  Naw, it's all the more reason to give them Amnesty. Americans shouldn't tolerate businesses trying to more or less keep slaves and screwing with the pay scales in America. We need to give people a legal status so they can start paying taxes and live productive lives. |
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Posted: 9/19/2009 1:11:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Quoted: Naw, it's all the more reason to give them Amnesty. Americans shouldn't tolerate businesses trying to more or less keep slaves and screwing with the pay scales in America. We need to give people a legal status so they can start paying taxes and live productive lives.Quoted: That's a very good point. Another reason not to give them amnesty. Quoted: Well, one of the reasons business wants them here is because we can abuse them, and pay them less. They don't bitch to OSHA or complain about working 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden. There are many cases where employers hold pay for a month, then report the aliens for deportation. (sometimes it backfires, but it still happens).If they are legalized most of the arguments against them would end. They will be just as American as any of us. Bout the only thing you could complain about is just normal stuff any of us might have about anyone. Once you legalize them, business needs a whole new pool of illegals who wont bitch to OSHA and will work 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden. It's a cycle that will restart the day after amnesty with a nifferent population of illegals. Then you have 30 million newly minted citizens that need to find new jobs as lower waged illegals put them out of work. It's happened every time, and it'll happen every time. Only if we legitimately crack down on the business that are breaking the law in their hiring practices. |
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Posted: 9/19/2009 1:44:56 PM EDT
[#4]
I had a roommate once that insisted on getting the super-expensive girlie soft toilet paper, and I'd make fun of him for it. One night we were both up late and got to talking- he remembers being in El Salvador as a kid, when they were so poor they wiped their butts with rocks. He also remembers being stuffed into the luggage rack of a bus and being hidden with luggage as they went through the border crossing. He became a corpsman because he only had a green card and knew he couldn't get a security clearance. He's now married to a Border Patrol Chief's daughter, ironically. And a damn fine American. And... Quoted: Of the top of my head, I can think of 10 (or more) "natural born" Americans I'd gladly send to Mexico in trade. |
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Posted: 9/19/2009 2:08:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Their kids are 'American' right now - full citizens.Would you consider a legalized illegal immigrant as an American? What about after 5 years? Would you consider their kids American? http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1 And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone who was amnestied, and someone who was here legally, anyway... The only folks who would know, would be employers or LE who had the authority to demand their documents & saw whatever 'special' visa code they had... I still think that we should not grant citizenship to the children of illegals. Destroying the concept of the 'anchor baby' would go a long way to fixing the problem. That 'concept' is immaginary... Having citizen children does not 'anchor' parents in the US... If they are caught, they have the same chance of being deported as those without citizen children... Citizenship by birth is part of the American way... It's how most of our ancestors got their citizenship, too... |
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Posted: 9/19/2009 2:10:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm willing to debate legalizing illegals but only AFTER we close up the boarder. Securing the BORDER is not possible... Will never happen... And personally, I'm *not* willing to debate legalizing illegals... I'm FOR expanding the number of legal immigrants we let in (almost to old-fashioned, 'show up, test clean medically, Welcome to America' levels (with the additon of a biometric database background check for prior illegal entry/criminal ctivity)), which would logically reduce the number of illegals (as folks would leave to go home & come back in legally, before they could get caught/deported).... But no amnesty... Period... Nope. Unless we change the legal number from all countries legally and bring down central and south America as a percentage to match the levels of all other countries. California and Arizona are overflowing with illegals from central and south America. Illegals don't pay as much in taxes as they use in public services. No wonder so many public hospitals (80+) have closed in California. That's not by accident. They're being forced to treat them under EMTALA, but aren't being paid for services. Screw this suicidal latino dream. Do the opposite: Rase EVERYONE to the same level... I wasn't talking about giving 'Mexicans' special immigration status... I was talking about opening the doors... Brits, Mexicans, anyone without a communicable disease or crime problem - who hasn't been deported... Come on down... Welcome to the US... Now here's what you have to do to become a permanent resident (say, 5 years of continuous employment, no law violations above non-criminal traffic, pay your taxes in full on time)... |
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Posted: 9/19/2009 2:14:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm willing to debate legalizing illegals but only AFTER we close up the boarder. Securing the BORDER is not possible... Will never happen... And personally, I'm *not* willing to debate legalizing illegals... I'm FOR expanding the number of legal immigrants we let in (almost to old-fashioned, 'show up, test clean medically, Welcome to America' levels (with the additon of a biometric database background check for prior illegal entry/criminal ctivity)), which would logically reduce the number of illegals (as folks would leave to go home & come back in legally, before they could get caught/deported).... But no amnesty... Period... Nope. Unless we change the legal number from all countries legally and bring down central and south America as a percentage to match the levels of all other countries. California and Arizona are overflowing with illegals from central and south America. Illegals don't pay as much in taxes as they use in public services. No wonder so many public hospitals (80+) have closed in California. That's not by accident. They're being forced to treat them under EMTALA, but aren't being paid for services. Screw this suicidal latino dream. Do the opposite: Rase EVERYONE to the same level... I wasn't talking about giving 'Mexicans' special immigration status... I was talking about opening the doors... Brits, Mexicans, anyone without a communicable disease or crime problem - who hasn't been deported... Come on down... Welcome to the US... Now here's what you have to do to become a permanent resident (say, 5 years of continuous employment, no law violations above non-criminal traffic, pay your taxes in full on time)... And boot out everyone else. Right on, I like that. |
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Posted: 9/19/2009 2:16:04 PM EDT
[#8]
the real question here, is do illegals WANT to be legal?
of course they want the benefits, but alas they are masters of working under the table and not paying taxes, who says they're going to start paying taxes once they're legalized? if we make them "legal" they'll just add to the poverty level because they'll continue to work under the table and get fed all the benefits that people with zero income recieve 
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