Wow!  You guys are the cop killers I've been hearing about!

So, USP, how do you feel about Steyr's questions that headed this post?

WTF are you talking about?

I mean only that the extremists, (though not the most extreme on the site) are beginning to chime in on this topic about how they would kill police officers, soldiers, and other representatives of my government.  These cop killers are the enemy, I think.

IMHO--

Where you got the cop killer thing I don't know, and don't even care, but I will suggest that you not come around me talking that kind of crap. You may have the right to say it, but I have the right to respond, and I might not do it with words. Before you decide I threatened to shoot you, that is not the case, but an ass whippin' might be in order.

As for where I stand on SteyrAUG's first post, here we go.

I hope like hell that things do not deteriorate to the point of a revolutionary, civil, or race war. IF it did, the only way it would be justifiable, is if it did return this nation to a Constitutional Democratic Republic as it was intended to be. Again, I hope that it does not come to this, but it may. There is a reason my first post on this said "and a last resort only", it is not what I want.

I do not know the readiness or willingness of this generation, or any future generations to act, so I cannot say.

All in all, I think that SteyrAUG hit the nail on the head.

Answer your question?

To clarify this a little bit, a race war would not do anything to restore this nation to her original guiding principles, however I do see it as being the most likely to happen soon. Once again, I DO NOT WANT THIS. If it should come to that I will defend myself/my loved ones, and defend myself/my loved ones only. I will not act as an agressor until threatened.

I cannot say for sure where I sould stand on a revolution or in the outbreak of civil war, however I don't see those two as being very likely, most people just don't think it is worth it, and would not fight.

Uh huh, I see that you are a real constitutional ranger there, buddy.  Threatening to attack me with force if I exercise my rights?  Yep, I see that your hatred of our government and the Constitution upon which it was built is a trait of yours.  Why not try to exercise your feelings or voice through political action or representation?  Why not try to influence others, at even a grassroots level, in your city?  

I do feel much the same way you do when it comes to protecting my family and loved ones, but this "government ever turned tyrant" stuff is for the prisoners and underclass.

As far as a race war happening "soon", I disagree.  Are you one of these guys who packs bags full of magazines and MRE's in case someone comes to take your guns away?  If so, your planning for something that's just not gonna happen here any time "soon".  If so, then you're wasting your time, and your family's money.  The race war is not gonna happen "soon".  If you have any evidence to suggest that it will, then please share.  Otherwise, keep your Chicken Little crying to yourself.

[edited to add:  go do something productive, and help the country instead of continuing with this kind of civil war speculation.  You sound like a bright person who is careful and thoughful about your words.  You can use them to help America.  Please go do it!]

Your ramblings deny the case where government employees act unlawfully. The law, at least in Arizona, justifies forceful self-defense against unlawful force -- regardless of who is applying the unlawful force (Title 13 Section 404). Why don't you get your facts straight before you launch any more accusations?

Furthermore, if a cop acts unlawfully, and you aid him, then you too are a criminal.

You've already made blanket insults to the entire board membership in previous posts, so cut him a little slack if he didn't realize you weren't aiming for him as well. You're not exactly very selective in your targeting.



Anything for you, you know that. Friends til the end. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/stupid.gif[/img]



Aw... shucks IMHO! [img]http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/hayseed.gif[/img] My pleasure. I always figured I was one of the reasons you decided to join us, and now I know that to be the case.



Well, since you ask IMHO, could be better. There's this guy who says he's just here for info about a rifle, but seems to be drawn, like a mosquito is to a bug zapper, to the General Discussion Forum. Now, the strange thing about this is that it's the same guy who said: "I think that some of these jokers have hundreds of posts that are nothing more than answers to 'What's your favorite TV dinner?' threads." And now he is one of those jokers [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/jester.gif[/img]! *LOL*

But he's a queer customer. Makes a big thing over whether a pre-ban is worth it or not. Argues and insults the members he asked for help on the subject. In the end huffs and puffs that he will decide when and if he gets one, but for the time being will stick with his "lowly commoner" (then runs out immediately and gets one). Who knows in what faddish ways the membership will influence him next!?

My favorite recent post of his is when a board member asks for prayers for a seriously ill hospitalized man ("A friend in need") and our hero decides to drop by and give him the third degree. What a guy! [whacko]




Nothing to hide? Not wanted by the government, bill collectors, ex-boyfriends, something? I'm talking about a guy [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/compute.gif[/img] who hides behind his computer, talks trash [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/madgo.gif[/img], slings insults [img]http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/pfbbt.gif[/img], [u]all the while lacking the courage to even put his name behind his statements[/u]. That brave [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/anon.gif[/img] Mr. X. Such a person is one of life's timid souls, never daring to say such things "in real life," lest the consequences become [red]too real[/red] [img]http://www.contrabandent.com/cwm/s/contrib/edoom/blowingup.gif[/img] - and therefore certainly not likely to take Juggernaut up on his suggestion, as in doing so he would have to reveal himself. Scary!

If you can't be public with your identity here, among strangers 1000s of miles away, then where can you?



Run young man! Fast as your little feet will carry you to the nearest government representative. Heck, he might even look like this:



[img]http://xzodus.com/cup_of_what.gif[/img]

Thank you for the compliment, backhanded as it may be.

I have no problem with your right to voice your opinion, I just do not respond well to unfounded attacks on my character such as you made.

I presently write to my representatives in Washington D.C., Austin, and here in Fort Worth on several issues which concearn me. I also write to the representatives of other states in hopes that my voice might make them think twice. I realize the unlikelihood of such, but if more people did, it just might start the wheels turning.

I agree that a race war is not imminent, I merely feel it to be the more likely of the scenarios provided to actually happen. Had several things not gone very fortunately in Cincinnati, we might very well be watching this scenario play out right now, or be involved in the clean up of it.

As far as the posession of a "bug-out bag", not I. I have enough ammunition for home defense, and then some, (bulk buyer), and enough food not to go hungry for a couple of weeks. I just don't like to be at the grocery store every week, once or twice a month is enough for me. If things ever progressed to the point that this proves insufficient, well, most "bug-out bags" won't get the job done either.

I have already stated that I believe the SHTF scenarios are unlikely at best, and it is far more likely that our rights will be legislated away. This can be stopped though. Should the Govt. ever launch an agressive campaign against the Constitution or the people it protects, that Govt. must be stricken down, by force if necessary.

The time for violence is not yet upon us, we must continue to act peacefully, lest we further arm the anti's and strenghten the support of an unconstitutional government. For now we must busy ourselves with the work of educating the uneducated, bending the ears of our elected officials in our direction, and trying to win this one without having to fight.

So you see, we are really not that far apart in our thinking at the moment. I have simply stated that should it become necessary, I will oppose an unconstitutional government, and will do so with force if need be. That is neither here nor there, as that time is not yet upon us.

i honetsly belive that the SHTF will not be a massive "ok turn in your guns" "uh no *bang* bang for the revolution" if it was it would have happened by now. to many years of frog boiling have made this almost impossible i do belive that SHTF will be caused by some sort of disastier or all out world war (ie nuke war then invasion) i find the later reason improbable in my lifetime. as far as the race war reason not gonna happen to many people out number the suppremists.

my prediction is that many more years/decades of slowing erroding will happen until eventlly no one has any guns. i just hope im dead and gone before this happen. but will i am still alive  i will do what i can to stop it ie vote and not vote by BS party lines wich is how me got in this damn mess in the first place.

This is exactly the type of response i expected. No explaination of position, and no effort to analyize or explore it in detail. IMHO is only interested in throwing insults.

You say i have too much time?, what about you? What your actually saying is that you would give no time in the world to open up your mind and discuss your accusations you broadly painted on AR-15.comers. Including SteyrAUG whom i happen to agree with on most things.

You also speak of the people here as "cop-killers" and people who wish to shoot US Service personnel. WTF!!? AR-15.com has LEO's and Military people here as members.


lib [}:D]

The double-speak term "cop-killer" is used ambiguously on AR15.com.

Unless I misunderstand IMHO, his only objection is to unlawful "cop-murderers".

IMHO has not once argued against the lawful use of deadly force against government employees.

Click on reply with quote for his message and you can see the board code he used to get the icons in. It looks like this is the address:

[url]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/[/url]

So you consider me "underclass" for making that statement? Can you say that NO goverment EVER in history has ever turned tyrant? You are very narrow minded my friend.

[b]P.S. I'm not underclass,dipshit![/b]

We're all the underclass to him. Haven't you read any of his other posts about the typical ar15.com'er?

Yo boys and girls this is getting out of hand. When I first read the post, it sounded like what do you think might happen and what would you do? I don't think it had anything to do with being a Terrorist, Cop Killer, Racist or like some one said Tim McVeigh.

Has I see it thoughts get posted here and people look for others answers. It should have nothing to do with putting each other down or stereotyping anyone. You see for any post here, I have a different answer. One would be talking of Peace. One would be talking of protecting family and myself. You never know how you will react in a situation till you are faced with it.

So this post really started to take off in a different direction. I am sure there are Extremist's posting here. I remember me getting bent out of shape about someone and really checking him out. Everyone is entitled to his or her feelings and thoughts. It is better to know who your enemy is, and never let him know you are his adversary..

I hope anyone who posts here believes in Freedom and the rights for others to exist. I hope no one is or wants to be a Cop Killer or Terrorist. What I do know that when the SHTF in any kind of Scenario, we will have to rely on survival. Keep your comment’s coming, But does it really do anything for AR15.com calling someone names and putting them down?

Marc,

Two points:

1) If you consider someone here an "enemy" and not just someone you disagree with (or just plain don't like), then perhaps you have drifted off into the realm of the extremists you have identified. Something to consider. Also, never confronting what you object to is cowardice, so your advice is not well taken.

&

2) This thread was dead and buried for some time until [b]you[/b] brought it back up. Sometimes it's just better to leave a topic on page 39...

[url]www.stanley2002.org/mgmpetition.htm[/url]

we will see who the warriors are..

I didn't read all responses, so sorry if this has been said before:

I Can't give a definite answer.  A second revolution or civil war will not happen, and would not be practical or called for UNTIL THE GOV'T TAKES OUR RIGHT TO VOTE!  Most Americans seem to forget:  [b]you can vote these people out!!!!!![/b]  It frustrates me to hell.

You want your inherent freedoms to be again recognized?  Then VOTE for someone who will take action!  We still have the right to vote!  The revolution will not happen until our power through [i]representation[/i] has been ended or perverted.  Sound familiar (no taxation without representation)?  

SO, the next problem will be:  when will our right to vote be taken away?  What will the state of our country and society be?  Will we be totally disarmed when our vote is no longer relevent?  Most likely.  Only smart JBTs will stop recognizing our votes when and only when we have no guns.  Therefore, when we are really pissed off, we will have no means, no equalizer, to fight unjust rule upon us.  On top of that, we will have no more 4th amendment, and all the other "freedoms".  So when some citizens try to start this revolution, they will be crushed.

Then, all is lost.

But that is the worst case scenario; the end of the USA we all know and love.  I don't know when that will be, personally, and do not want to find out.  The second revolution has no hope for being a romantic armed one.  The second revolution is going to have to be a voter revolution...the total overthrow of this oppression we have learned to love, [red]through the ballot box![/red]

To shooter69..Sorry I don't consider anyone here my enemy didn't know this was dead because I opened my E-mail and had close to 25 posts to this. I know I posted awhile ago about it.
I wish I could fall into a Fantasy world every once and a while. I just keep getting zapped back into this world. I mean no disrespect to anyone here and will unsubscribe to this post if it is dead. When I do drift it isn't about overthrowing the Government Thank God. It usually is about an old girlfriend and the sex we use to have..Later Brother..

How about this scenario:

Someone pops a nuke on DC, NYC or L.A.

What do you then, smart guys?  The whole country is going to plunge into chaos.  It won't be like 9/11 when there was a few hours of "what is going to happen next?"  The cities that aren't attacked will be under martial law and their will be widespread rioting and looting.  I doubt the civil authorities will be able to do much except execute the few perpetrators they can catch.  A few people will be able to hold out--people living in rural areas, mostly.  The rest of us suburban and urban fringe dwellers can kiss our asses goodbye.  Maybe not right away, but eventually.  Armed or no, you won't have enough bullets or time to shoot all of your assailants.  

Many members of my family live just north of NYC.  If the city ever empties out and all those lunatics who are hungry and scared are roving about alone or in gangs, what the hell are you going to do unless you happen to live in a hidden bunker or cave?  You might as well go down fighting for all the good it will do. It beats the slow death awaiting you (think Shugart & Gordon in Somalia).  Best to save the last bullet for yourself.  

Barring that kind of cataclysmic end of America, we're still on the slow route to a totalitarian society.  Our country is filling up with people who care nothing of freedom, they hail from repressive regimes that make America look really damn good in comparison.  Trouble is, they aren't fighting for more liberty, they're just happy to take whatever they can get.  They don't understand economics, they don't see any need for privacy or dignity.  They work mainly to pay to have more of their relatives come over here.  I respect their familial loyalty, but it's dooming western civilization.

Pool heaters and AC?  Neither is required for basic sustainment of life.  Very few people living in communist (or socialist for that matter--look at Europe) even have swimming pools.  AC is also a rarity.  As our nation diverges further and further from its Constitutional roots, the government will have more and more power over who receives what goods and services.  Loss of economic freedom results in loss of individual choices. Always has, always will.  In two generations, no one will wonder about pool heaters or AC.  They didn't grow up with it, and only the most elite will have such amenities.

We've had it good, but it feels to me like the whole world is arrayed againt the US for one reason or another, mostly ideology.  Religious fanatics of all colors are leading the charge, and the Marxists aren't fare behind.  That kid who was out terrorizing people with pipe bombs was a lefty--he thinks the cultural revolution isn't going fast enough!  He's everything I've come to expect from our public schools and higher educational institutions.

Any way you cut it, I just don't think I'll get to enjoy retirement.  I hope I am wrong.  I hope something happens to let the air out of the phonies and the bullshit artists who are scamming our nation straight to hell.