Quoted: Quoted: Christian bigeots/hypocrites(probably the same people buying untold billions of $$ in porn) and far left wemons groups. Maybe someday you'll get lucky and have a daughter who is a prostitute. (Teach her to spell!) Then you can proudly boast to your friends (non-Christians of course!) that your daughter is making a fine living sucking dicks at the local truck stop. I'm sure everyone would be impressed. "Hmmmm... that's great!  Sounds like everything is working out well for your daughter!"

Yes, that's logical .

Maybe he hit a little close to home when he talked about bigotry?

I wouldn't want a daughter going into porn, acting, music, or the restaurant industry.  Should I then be obligated to believe they all need to be banned?

Quoted: All women sell their bodies for what they want. Some charge cash others use it to get what they want. If you know that if you cook dinner and clean up the house after your wife has a long day then run her a bath you are getting laid. If sex was not on the table you probably would not bother. She just sold her self for a meal, some child care and a bath. Others just want cash. How many of you guys do extra, or do special things for your wife because you want some pie? Is this wrong, hell no. It all comes down to trading time and resources for pie.

While I agree in principle...

...I can already hear the Women's Forum spilling its contents into GD.

Prepare for shitstorm.

Quoted: Quoted: Christian bigeots/hypocrites(probably the same people buying untold billions of $$ in porn) and far left wemons groups. Maybe someday you'll get lucky and have a daughter who is a prostitute. (Teach her to spell!) Then you can proudly boast to your friends (non-Christians of course!) that your daughter is making a fine living sucking dicks at the local truck stop. I'm sure everyone would be impressed. "Hmmmm... that's great!  Sounds like everything is working out well for your daughter!"

If she is smart and hot she will not do truck stop guys but charge $500 - $1000 and hour. Keep her self fit and healthy use protection. She is educated about STD's. Screens her clients and keeps her mouth shut. If she looks at it as a job and invests her money she could retire before 30.

Meanwhile the repressive Christian father is so strict she bangs half the football team to get back at him and show how independent she is. She has been so repressed that she is too freaked out and scared to get on the pill or get protection or education about STD's. She gets knocked up by one of the guys and after a bunch of screaming and yelling where she will never trust you again she is forced to marry the guy or one of the guys, giving up any chance for college and a real career or even satisfaction in life. Because divorce is a taboo to she is stuck in a hopeless situation. I have seen this happen with "good" families a HELL of a lot more!!!

Most of the younger clean working girls are paying their way through school and quit when they get a real job. You tell me which is a better life.

Quoted: Quoted: All women sell their bodies for what they want. Some charge cash others use it to get what they want. If you know that if you cook dinner and clean up the house after your wife has a long day then run her a bath you are getting laid. If sex was not on the table you probably would not bother. She just sold her self for a meal, some child care and a bath. Others just want cash. How many of you guys do extra, or do special things for your wife because you want some pie? Is this wrong, hell no. It all comes down to trading time and resources for pie. While I agree in principle... ...I can already hear the Women's Forum spilling its contents into GD. Prepare for shitstorm.

HAHAHA. I will admit that I do special things for my girl to get pie. There is nothing wrong with it. Do I expect it. NO. Is it the ONLY reason I do it? NO. Is it MOST of the reason? SOMETIMES. Does she give up the pie only because I did those tings. NO. Is it a big part? Hell yes. Do you think she would be in the mode after making dinner getting the kids ready to bed and collapsing into bed after a long day after a quick shower while you watch ESPN? Which behavior is more likely to get you pie? Is it WRONG or Crass or disrespectful to either party? FUCK NO! She got a break, some free time to her self a nice bath personal attention etc. All for giving up some pie, that she will enjoy too if her husband is a considerate lover. So She gets the better end of the deal. But like any really good negotiation both parties "leave" feeling like they got the better end of the deal.

The guy who sat on the couch gets no pie and his wife is probably pissed at him for being a lazy SOB. Not only no pie but the wifey is now pissed and they both go to bed mad.

Which is better?

Men want pie as much as possible whenever possible. Women use this to make their lives easier. Doesn't matter if it is a loving Hubby and Wife or a John and a Ho. It is about trading time and resources for something both want.

Quoted: Quoted: Brothels No-Go in BC. Wrong answer.

Prostitution legalities in Canada  This link cites Canadian Federal Law, not just provincial law.

2."Bawdy Houses" are illegal. This provision was made part of the Canadian Federal Code in 1850. Yes, 1850. A bawdy house is a place kept, occupied or used by at least one person for the purposes of prostitution or indecent acts. Therefore incall service is illegal but enforcement of this varies in different cities from almost no enforcement unless also involves other activities such as drugs or illegal aliens, to even trying to use this provision to shut down swing clubs in some Eastern Canadian cities. Most sex workers and government agencies agree the law against brothels prevents prostitutes from working safely. LCC president Nathalie Des Rosiers says, "If the idea is to ensure safety of sex workers, being in a group is better than being alone, because they can share information. The criminalization of brothels prevents this." Any place regularly used for prostitution or "indecent acts" is considered a "bawdy house," which can include brothels, bathhouses and prostitutes' apartments if they bring clients. This means sex workers can only legally make outcalls to ad hoc places, leaving them vulnerable; even using the same hotel frequently can be illegal. Charges can be laid against "keepers" of bawdy houses; "found-ins" (usually johns); and "inmates" (anyone who works on the premises). Landlords can also be charged if they know "indecent" acts are taking place on the property. It is illegal to be an "inmate" or a "found within") in a bawdy house. But this is very difficult to prosecute. In 2000 hundreds of Peal police raided 3 strip clubs in the Toronto area where illegal sex acts were observed (handjobs, oral etc). 74 were arrested mostly on "being an inmate" charges. All charges were later dropped. To be charged with being found within a common bawdy house (s still a mens rea offence meaning you had to have had knowledge that you were in such a place. The prosecution is in a difficult position in the absence of statements by accused because when you're in your room in a massage place or in the VIP area of a strip club, you don't know whats going on in the other parts of the spa or club and accordingly how do you have knowledge if you can't see whats goig on. Now there are two tests, The known test, and the ought to have known test. A statement like "Oh come on...it was just a hand job." could sink you.

First,

You suggest that my attitude regarding whores, and the laws regarding whores is based on bigotry.

In other words, nobody would think that being a whore was bad unless they were motivated by some unreasonable hatred of whores as a group.

I can easily refute that idea:

nobody reading this thread would let their daughter become a whore, because it's awful in itself.

Even if all the Christians on earth were dead, you still would not let your daughter be a whore.

The whole argument regarding bigotry is nothing more than name calling and Christian bashing, in the proud ARFCOM tradition.


Second,

I think the strong have an obligation to protect the weak. Prostitution is a malum in se, evil unto itself. I have no problem with it being illegal. I don't believe it is victimless in any way shape or form. I believe that the prostitute is the victim.

Being a waitress or actress is morally neutral.



Every time this subject comes up a bunch of guys suggest that it is a victimless crime and not a big deal. That idea does not pass the test regarding family members doing it.


The first time you called me a bigot was when I said I had not seen neo-nazi stuff at gunshows (which I have not).

The second is because I think prostitution is a bad career choice.

Keep up the good work of being so very very open minded, wonder boy.


PS -

Linda Harrison rules, you damn dirty ape!

If prostitution is illegal, shouldn't sugar daddies and sugar mommas be illegal? heir
Whatever the case... there's a lot of people with different reasons, who all team up for one big goal.

I think registered brothels would be an okay idea.  Then you'd have prostitution without the pimps, and if things like drug screening and STD testing was made available, it could potentially be a healthy and safe work place.  The main goal should be to protect the women and men from being beaten or killed, which is what they get on the streets.

Quoted: Why does the general population along with LEO make such a big deal out of prostitution? In many other countries it is regulated and the city or state or province gets taxes form it. Why not do a simular thing here in the states? Anyone care to elaborate? Im not really concerned with the moral aspect or ethical reasoning, I am looking for another answer besides the obvious? What say the Arfers?

I thought the same thing on my first WestPac deployment..


Understand that many of those hot little Thai chics you see running around in Okinawa and the like are sold into the sex trade by their own families  So it might seem that it is such a great idea to legalize prostitution, in practice it creates more problems than it solves..  And those problems cross over into many other venues of society.

Quoted: IMO, its not a good idea to normalize this as some sort a job choice, to impressionable teenage girls.

no shit.  think about the poor service they give you in mcdonalds.  do you want the same in a brothel?

Quoted: Quoted: IMO, its not a good idea to normalize this as some sort a job choice, to impressionable teenage girls. no shit.  think about the poor service they give you in mcdonalds.  do you want the same in a brothel?

"Dammit, I told you not to put onions on that!"

...turns into...

"Dammit, I told you not to use your teeth on that!"

eeew. >_<

pimpin' ain't easy

height=8

Quoted: It doesn't matter what I want for my daughter. I don't want her to be a stripper, hooker, waitress, teamster, barrista or any number of things.  The fact I don't want her to do it means fuck all.  What I want doesn't matter for other people.  Much better the prostitute be able to work legally and not have pimps required to buy off cops and bail her out when she gets caught. Like drugs, prostitution is illegal because of the icky elements that follow it around. That said, like drugs, the prohibition on prostitution makes it 100 times worse than the problem if left legal. Fucking do gooders. Ban guns, its for the children Ban drugs, its for the children ban hookers, its for the children. "What about your daughter?"  I'll worry about my own daughter, thanks for your concern.

Well said.  Don't forget: Ban porn, its for the children.  Lets ban everything!!!

First, You suggest that my attitude regarding whores, and the laws regarding whores is based on bigotry. In other words, nobody would think that being a whore was bad unless they were motivated by some unreasonable hatred of whores as a group. I can easily refute that idea: nobody reading this thread would let their daughter become a whore, because it's awful in itself. Even if all the Christians on earth were dead, you still would not let your daughter be a whore. The whole argument regarding bigotry is nothing more than name calling and Christian bashing, in the proud ARFCOM tradition. Second, I think the strong have an obligation to protect the weak.  Prostitution is a malum in se, evil unto itself.  I have no problem with it being illegal.  I don't believe it is victimless in any way shape or form.  I believe that the prostitute is the victim. Being a waitress or actress is morally neutral. Every time this subject comes up a bunch of guys suggest that it is a victimless crime and not a big deal.  That idea does not pass the test regarding family members doing it. The first time you called me a bigot was when I said I had not seen neo-nazi stuff at gunshows (which I have not). The second is because I think prostitution is a bad career choice. Keep up the good work of being so very very open minded, wonder boy. PS - Linda Harrison rules,  you damn dirty ape!

No it is NOT Mala in se. It is NOT evil in and of it self. Pimps who beat up girls, 3rd world shit hole families that sell their kids into sex slavery. Making a woman do something against her will. THESE are MALA IN SE. Not the act of selling sex.

Because it is illegal women who do this have NO protection. it is less safe for them.

FYI many chicks "escort" during college to pay their way, then they go off into a real job.

What you are trying to do is force your religious beliefs on others, it violates THEIR first amendment rights.

There is a big difference between VOLUNTARY prostitution or slavery. NO BODY here is advocating the sex slave trade.

You are forcing your morals on to other people and THAT is wrong. You may not like it, you may think it is morally wrong, you may feel it violates YOUR religion but it is none of your business. Many chicks that do this for a living do it because it pays very well. Some treat it like a job, How many people here whore them selves out to their company for a living and HATE their job. Some girls actually LIKE it. OMG the horror: a chick that likes sex and gets paid to do it. OH TEH NO'S!!!!!!

WTF are you to judge them or tell them that what they are doing is EVIL.

Child molesters, rapists, murderers are EVIL.

Giving someone an Orgasim is really really I mean REALLY evil isn't it? You should lock your wife up right now she is EVIL. Come on. As long as the chick is doing it of her own free will it is NONE of your fucking business or anyone else's.

What Christians should learn is to keep their morals to them selves not everyone wants to live their religion. Many Christians love the first amendment when it protects them and their religion and their speach and life choices but heaven forbid someone else wants to live their life differently.

I have known some girls who did this of their own free will, mainly to pay for college. 1 I know is now a successful lawyer. They were not slaves, they had no pimp they did what they did to make ends meet. The one girl graduated an expensive school with 0 debt afterwards. One thing they were worried about was getting arrested for it and having a record. They always used protection and screened their clients. Who were mainly 40+ with fat ass wives or wives who would not put out. Their take on it is they would be having sex with boyfriends anyway so why not get paid for it.

It may not be what you agree with but it is none of your business. It is THEIR choice. Like it or not. I have seen FAR more lifelong harm come from holier than thou parents, who are like Nazi's on sex issues. The young girls get little to know Sex Ed, are too paranoid to buy condoms or get on the pill. But being young they rebel and the biggest way they can is to fuck some guy. Then she gets pregnant. Parents now hate her and treat her like dog shit. She doesn't get an abortion, gets little to no support from the folks, and if she does get some support they treat her like shit and always drag her down. Or she is forced to marry the guy, who turns out to be a looser, and in either case neither are ready for marriage. And because of the religion they don't get divorced even after he beats her. She has no education, no self esteem and lives a hellish life. But hey at least she didn't sell it right? I have seen that happen to over 20 or so girls that I knew growing up.  I grew up in that kind of enviornment, but luckily didn't get into that kind of trouble. That is your Unintended Consequences, and it is a direct result of Christian Sexual Repression. Certainly not all sects or families are like this. I know some WONDERFUL Christian families but they are not sexually repressive.

Federal law does in fact cover prostitution, at least to some extent.  

It has been an element of jokes and a lot of abuse, but the Mann Act of 1910, as amended in 1978, still is in effect, and is used by the feds.  So, if an individual crosses state lines and commits a criminal sexual act, then the feds can get you.

The 1978 amendment took the "immoral purposes" part out, but was still intended to deal with crimes of sexual exploitation, such as prostitution but primarily child porn.

If states began to decriminalize prostitution that would negate the application of the Mann Act, but we all know how easy it is for the feds to regulate things found to be involved in "Interstate Commerce".

Quoted: First, You suggest that my attitude regarding whores, and the laws regarding whores is based on bigotry. I grew up in that kind of enviornment, but luckily didn't get into that kind of trouble. That is your Unintended Consequences, and it is a direct result of Christian Sexual Repression. Certainly not all sects or families are like this. I know some WONDERFUL Christian families but they are not sexually repressive.

Not to grind the point into dust, but...

In spite of the rosy picture painted on ARFCOM about prostitution, no man would allow his daughter to become one.  Unless he was a complete degenerate.

Quoted: Why is it the hookers in Vancouver, BC look like they stepped out of the pages of Playboy and / or Maxim, but the hookers they catch on Cops are 45 year-old toothless hags hopped-up on meth?

Because the hookers in Vancouver are more than lkely men in drag.

I like threads that try and defend low behaviour and lack of morals.  You know full well who is talking from first hand experience.  (and I'm talking about the posters, not the hookers)

I'll wait for the next "why can't I have a normal relationship with a woman" thread and look for the same posters.

Quoted: Quoted: First, You suggest that my attitude regarding whores, and the laws regarding whores is based on bigotry. Not my (dread-pirate) words. I grew up in that kind of enviornment, but luckily didn't get into that kind of trouble. That is your Unintended Consequences, and it is a direct result of Christian Sexual Repression. Certainly not all sects or families are like this. I know some WONDERFUL Christian families but they are not sexually repressive. Not to grind the point into dust, but... In spite of the rosy picture painted on ARFCOM about prostitution, no man would allow his daughter to become one.  Unless he was a complete degenerate.

Point 1: Nobody has any right pushing their religious values on anyone else.

Point 2: Some women HAVE no fathers. Some with fathers RAPE them.

Point 3: As a father, I have 2 girls, there are a shit load of career paths I would not choose for them. Among prostitution are things like burger king, Wal Mart etc. But as a father we cannot CONTROL our kids. We can not make their choices good or bad for them once they reach the age of majority.

But what is better a woman who sells sex to pay for college and makes something of her self after school. Or a single mom who sells sex to be able to work few hours and spend more time with her kids, and not have daycare raise them. (I have known both types). These were not the strung out dirty whores on the street corner. They had no pimps, didn't do drugs they were very attractive smart women. But if they got busted, they would have a prostitution rap. Try finding a decent job with that on your record. There is no REASON for it.

The "reason" given is to protect these women, and its utter bull shit. It is like having a cop direct you through traffic and the red light cam gets you because you were following and officers orders, or getting a speeding ticket 5 min from your house for doing 35 in a 30 and they tell you it is for safety. Utter Bull Shit. It is a scam but hey they are cops.

YOU worry about YOUR OWN daughter. I will worry about mine and you can take your Hillary it takes a village mindset and stuff it.

Sexually repressed people have fucked up more of their daughters lives than ones who want to sell the pie and have their head on straight. I have personally witnessed this is 20 or so women that I grew up with.

For the record if I had 1 of 2 choices for MY girls and the options are:
1. Repress as much sexual information as I can. This includes birth control techniques, how to protect your self from STD's etc. And condition her so that she is too scared to bring up any sexuality topics. That in a fit of rebellion (all kids rebel even good ones) because of the ignorance I forced on her she gets knocked up. And because I think like this I feel it reflects on me I treat her like a dirty rotten whore. I force her to "do whats right" and marry the sperm doner. She is stuck in poverty because neither of them get any education and her life is effectively ruined. The guy has about a 50/50 chance is being abusive because he was too young and the stress gets him and he takes it out on her. Yeah she will love her kids but her life sucks.

Or

2. I am open about discussing sexuality matters. I tell her I would prefer her to wait until marriage (even though I am not a Christian). But give her the education about birth control and STD's. I work with her to try hard as I can to keep her from getting pregnant until she can mature and get her education and get some stability. But for what ever reason she decides to be sexually active. But she has the knowledge to protect herself from STD's and get on birth control and use safe sex practices. And when she is in college she needs money. So she decides to become an escort for older guys. She has the time for her studies and the money to take care of things. She figured she would be sleeping with boyfriends and such at school (this goes on as much or MORE at a Christian College). SO she will be having sex anyway she figures she will charge for it. Then she goes on to live a decent life and she is happy and satisfied. Sure if she told some boy friends or wanted to marry a Christian man she might have some problems there. But by in large she does ok.

Me for MY daughters I would rather have them make the second choice! I don't like either of them. But out of the 2 the kid will have a better life than the first. I have seen way too much of the first situation in my life too many broken families to have any other opinion. Calling these girls EVIL is reprehensible. Mala in se my ASS. And these people like in the first example will say they love their kids. I have even had one person who did that to his daughter who is a Baptist preacher BTW, try to tell me that because I don't go to church and that I am agnostic and not bringing up my children in the way of the "lord" that I DON"T love them.

For any Christian members who don't do or condone such acts as in my first example/choice I commend you, and this is NOT aimed at you. I know quite a few real decent Christians. This is for the sexually repressed group that wants to force their religion on me.

Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't matter what I want for my daughter. I don't want her to be a stripper, hooker, waitress, teamster, barrista or any number of things.  The fact I don't want her to do it means fuck all.  What I want doesn't matter for other people.  Much better the prostitute be able to work legally and not have pimps required to buy off cops and bail her out when she gets caught. Like drugs, prostitution is illegal because of the icky elements that follow it around. That said, like drugs, the prohibition on prostitution makes it 100 times worse than the problem if left legal. Fucking do gooders. Ban guns, its for the children Ban drugs, its for the children ban hookers, its for the children. "What about your daughter?"  I'll worry about my own daughter, thanks for your concern. Well said.  Don't forget: Ban porn, its for the children.  Lets ban everything!!!

+1
BAN THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IN IT!!!!111111