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Posted: 7/17/2008 12:09:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes we are, but the means of habitat destruction we cause are not. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 12:12:10 PM EDT
[#2]
No, I'm just tired of people assigning blame for the current economic problems to everything other than the actual source of the problem. Forty years of enviro-indoctrination is coming home to roost. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 12:12:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 7/17/2008 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#4]
It's called evolution in action.
Humans and some stock animals will be all that's left. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 1:39:58 PM EDT
[#5]
sorry you feel that way, uhwarrie |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 1:51:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Since we aren't dieties, we shouldn't be in the business of picking particular species to save from extinction nor choosing species to "ignore". |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 1:53:20 PM EDT
[#7]
So homo sapiens is a supernatural species of diety? |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 1:55:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Fixed it for you. 
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Posted: 7/17/2008 2:00:12 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm not a hippy by any means, but I think it would be a real shame for all lions, tigers, elephants, rhinos, and other animals to no longer exist.
The ones in captivity can't last forever. With the low numbers that zoos keep, all it takes is a few that refuse to breed, or a few that become sick. I think natural extinction is unfortunate, but when people decimate frail populations, that's just messed up. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 3:09:51 PM EDT
[#10]
I agree nature is 1 thing, man's influence fu(king it up for a species is another. I think we owe it to try and save those that we push to the brink of extinction. Sort of goes with being responsible.
I always recall stupid shi! people have done like the nature show I saw where tourists took a land rover through the grasslands of africa to see cheetahs up close and then backed over a cheetah cub while trying to get a better view. Their sittin there sayin how most likely only 1 of her 3 cubs will make it to be an adult, ,,,,,,, well make that maybe 1 of her 2 cubs,,,  |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 3:16:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Protect the tasty animals. I don't give a damn about the others. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 3:32:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Let say your dad worked for 30 years to make a beautiful park and when he dies he turns this over to the city. This park is great and it has allot of cool things in it. Soon the city decieds they need money, they sell the park the bulldoze it and build an abortion clinic. Wouldn't you be a little pissed off that all of that time and effort were wasted, that something "nice" but "not useful" was replaced by just another shitty building?
Everything in earth has taken billions of years to reach it current state, and there is much wonder and beauty in the natural world. We as humans have to decide what is worth keeping and what is not. Clearly everything can't be saved, we need to make a living damn it. But recklessly destroying everything and saying "I don't care I still can drink beer and watch football, what more do I need" is fucking stupid as well. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 6:37:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Im talking about man made things, this has an impact on wildlife, it creates a hostile matrix. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 6:41:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Because many of the species that are endangered are in that state because of our actions, something that we can try to reverse while we still can. We've driven species to extinction in the past through our own mistakes. Saying that its because of the hippies or some other excuse is simply a lame attempt to dismiss this effort as being unimportant in the posters mind.
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Posted: 7/17/2008 6:43:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Nature causes species to become extinct. We're part of nature. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 7:23:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Good call. Don't waste your time arguing with fucktards. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 7:44:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Because the "personal responsibility" part of being a conservative means you have to pay your own way and you can't go around destroying the commons for financial gain, that's why.
Bunch of fucking pussies whining about how haaaard it is to get by without causing mass extinctions the likes of which the world has never known absent astronomical intervention, in the wealthiest, softest, easiest nation in history. Grow the fuck up already and try to leave your kids a better world. The older I get, and the more I listen to so-called conservativesa, the more convinced I become that it's all based on not giving a fuck about anything. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 7:45:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Who is the fucktard? The one who has clearly won the argument, or the one who called names, took their toys and went home? You and uhwarrie have no clue, no argument, and no sense of reality. Instead of even attempting to debate me you either call into question my methods or call me names and go home. This just shows that you have no argument. None, nada, zip, zero, nothing. You guys live in this dream where the world has been a constant state for billions of years and that every change is bad, that nothing ever changes, and if it does it is somehow our fault and evil. Of course this does not seems to stop you from driving and buying a house, eating food and reproducing. Call me names if that makes you feel better. It appears that it is the best you can muster. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 7:47:03 PM EDT
[#19]
We're supposed to be the stewards of the earth. We can do whatever we want with it, so long as we don't trash the place. Saving a species from going extinct, especially if it is endangered as a result of human action (like the dodo), is a good thing. That said, government picks some of the most retarded ways of going about it.
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Posted: 7/17/2008 7:48:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Thats a cop-out. Us destroying a species by slaughtering them en masse or destroying their habitat is a willful act. Its not the same as the example someone used of an unavoidable act like a volcano blowing its top. As one of the last posters said, it seems like being a conservative to some of you is simply an excuse to do nothing |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 7:54:24 PM EDT
[#21]
We should at least capture their genome first.
You never know when the genes from some obscure critter could come in handy. 
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:10:22 PM EDT
[#22]
The only reason for the moniker "endangered species" is the political hay able to be made by "saving them." It's all about Communist control and incremental seepage into the country. Loss of property rights, development, utilization of <vital> natural resources, swallowing huge amounts of public money, etc. It's just a huge scam used by the Left to gain power and control. A certain number of species have gone extinct every single year since time immemorial--even before white people became "evil."
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:21:30 PM EDT
[#23]
no, you misunderstand, i simply have no desire to "debate" with you. you take everything personally and if someone has an opinion different than yours they are a liberal...whatever. and note i never called you names. if it makes you feel better to have "won" this argument then by all means do. but frankly, i will sleep just fine tonight. regards uhwarrie |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:23:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Rather, we want to live our lives free from the bonds of a government hell-bent on saving some species of mole. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:28:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Wrong attitude on your part. If its Ok to kill off the mole, where does it end? You are on this planet for only a short time; that doesn't give you the right to kill off every species around you that you have no personal use for. You should think about how you are leaving the planet for the people coming after you. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:31:11 PM EDT
[#26]
What if saving the spotted cockroach means we have to bulldoze your house and return your property to its "natural state?" Oh, you will still owe your mortgage. Sorry 'bout dat--it's for the greater good. 
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:38:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Bullshit. Dozens of species have been overharvested to the brink of extinction (or beyond). Conservationism is a pretty modern concept. Before the 20th century, it's more likely that any commercially exploitable resource would be harvested until exhausted. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:41:06 PM EDT
[#28]
There has been a LOT of residential development in the US, particularly in the last 50 years, that happened in places that it shouldn't have. Some of those areas would be better off if we DID revert it back to a natural state. If your house is going to be taken for one of those types of things, the government should be compensating you for the house and paying off your mortgage to boot. I've never heard of them seizing your house for that and making you pay your mortgage. i've heard of cars being seized due to drugs and the owner still having to foot the bill. Different issue though. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:43:45 PM EDT
[#29]
" . . . happened in places that it shouldn't have." Says who?  Shall we let ELF decide where we "should" and "shouldn't have?"
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:43:45 PM EDT
[#30]
FTW |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:47:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Bitch bit off more than she could chew, huh? We'll kick her ass. Hurricanes and floods are no match for thermo-nuclear weapons!
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:49:18 PM EDT
[#32]
+1 I sometimes think some wires got crossed somewhere when people call themselves conservative and desire to waste & consume whatever they want until its gone, yet call others liberal for wanting to conserve it. Know what I mean? I'm no hippie, or liberal. But I agree with conserving what we have (environment and all therein) and acting responsibly to manage what we do have. Yet so many conservatives have the viewpoint of "Who cares, we should be able to do whatever we want, suck it dry, burn it down. I'll be long gone before it affects ME!" Its quite sad, really. And that sentiment is strong here. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:50:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Some species are very useful to us. We'd be completely retarded to let those species go extinct.
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:56:43 PM EDT
[#34]
while you are correct ,this has become a scam ,do you really think certain animals should be hunted into extinction?how could this be justified? |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:56:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Some of those "less than worthless" animals that were mentioned(white and tiger sharks, snapping turtles) are quite useful. Not only are they aggressive predators, but also scavengers. Winterkill fish? A lot more would be rotting in the sun if it weren't for ugly things like catfish and snapping turtles. Ask an old farmer what they think of snapping turtles. Many, if not most, will tell you how good they taste. Unfortunately, cleaning and cooking them is a dying art. I have personally eaten mako and hammerhead shark, and large examples of both frequently bite people. A lot of the animals we regard as useless provide food for our "sport" species. Lots of gamefishermen leave their carp on the shore(common but actually illegal in Iowa, falls under wanton waste-no usable part of a killed animal can be left behind), but carp, especially small ones, are eaten by muskies, as well as predatory land animals.
I do believe the government goes too far, however. As much as I'd like to see california condors recover like bald eagles and peregrine falcons, with their low numbers they're likely a lost cause. The remaining ones that don't die as a direct result of humans will probably(but hopefully not) reach a point where they're too inbred to have healthy young. We as a species have the ability to know that this or that animal is in danger of going extinct. We also have a sense of morality. Due to those two facts, we should at least make an honest attempt at preventing extinction where possible. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 8:59:41 PM EDT
[#36]
No, we just want the market to be free. You know, liberty and all that. Moreover, why would a company not manage its resources for longevity? For example, lumber companies plant trees so they'll have a product to sell later on. If you believe that corporations will simply lay waste to the earth, then you need to spend some time examining your premises. You might discover that you've bought in to the irrational arguments of the left. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:01:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Look at hurricane damage every year. Plenty of houses built on beachfronts that should have been left pristine. The post WW2 development that ate up so much farmland to throw up cheap tract housing will have some long term consequences that I don't think we are realizing yet. We are continuing to lose many acres of farmland to development every day that we still don't know what the long term environmental consequences will be. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:02:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Not even worth debating anything with people with such hard set ideals, you do your thing & I'll do mine.
You can go about in your mindset and I'll continue to support conservation 100% because it matters, whether you want to admit it or not. 
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:04:16 PM EDT
[#39]
My thoughts have already been stated by everyone you disagree with. Read your posts again. You were the one talking shit and calling names. Everyone else was being respectful but I couldn’t take it anymore. You and your stupid avatar give me a headache. Conversing with you is a depressing waste of time. Conserve resources= animal and plant life, energy, water, food, oil, etc. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:04:23 PM EDT
[#40]
The problem is, the government won't leave people alone to "do [their] thing". |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:07:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Does that mean you live in an "acceptable" place? I basically agree <somewhat> with your point--especially when it comes to pissing away *MY* money rebuilding in those areas. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:07:22 PM EDT
[#42]
It messes up the food chain pretty badly.
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:12:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Personally I'd like to own a mountain with a house on top and tell the world to stuff it. My actual house is in no danger of being seized unless they intend to build a superhighway. Actually, it too was one of those roads thats seen the majority of its development post WW2. Most of it done not very well, unfortunately. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:13:10 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm not really speaking from a specific topic of conservation as it relates to a free market. This is just the attitude towards the environment in general, that I usually (not all) get from people who call themselves "conservatives." Whether or not they are aware of efforts to manage resources which are taken in an effort to keep them renewable, its still their belief that we should take whatever we want until we cant take any more. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:14:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Find one place in this thread where I used the word "liberal" (besides this one). You were worried about there not being any wild places left, and I, living in one, pointed out that you were misguided in this thought. You complained about my tone. The whole world is not as concerned about feeling as you are, and i did take it personally when you tried to invalidate my argument by stating that the message had a coarse tone. Take a trip up here and set your mind at ease and quit worrying about it. I'll buy the beverages. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 9:34:16 PM EDT
[#46]
fair enough, if you come down here and see how much has disappeared in the last twenty years and down here i will buy the beverages |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 10:45:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Im glad someone understands what im saying. Im really curious about peoples backgrounds in this particlar subject. I think that effects alot about what they know. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 10:55:02 PM EDT
[#48]
A company generally only worries about the bottom line on the quarterly earnings report. They have no long term goals. Lumber companies are an exception because the product they sell takes so long to mature before it can be harvested. The 'arguments of the left" are based on how companies have historically acted and are far from irrational. |
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Posted: 7/17/2008 11:06:35 PM EDT
[#49]
WE didn't decide it. Certain people decided it because they knew they could use the issue to dupe a majority of dumbed down voters into wasting money on it... and in the process those same assholes line their own pockets. It's all about money and suckers who don't understand the fact that politics is a dirty business. |
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Posted: 7/18/2008 4:23:20 AM EDT
[#50]
The arguments of the left are far from IRrational?? Obviously that's a typo--surely you meant far from RATIONAL, as in 
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Mother Earth, because she will fight back, and then where f*cked