What do you mean "so far subjective"?  He's just using common sense to fill in the blanks.

A lack of explanatory detail does not amount to an inconsistency.

Sister?

After all, science does indicate we all decended from [i]one[/i] woman.

I used to be like most of you guys, looking for every reason to discount God and the best way to do that is discount the Bible.  

But God saved me anyway.

Jesus was either what He said He was, a liar, or a lunatic.

The Bible writers through all those 1000's of years were all either liars or lunatics.

Christianity is either true or the BIGGEST hoax perpetrated on human kind.

That is the choice

Yes, I agree with the summation that lack of detail does not indicate inconsistency.

What I still disagree with is the absolute conclusion being established that the assumption is factual. There is nothing to refute the assumption, but there is nothing to validate it either.

Yes, there could be a chance that was was stated is the factual event. However, there is greater chance that the theory is wrong. As such, the original inconsistency in the Bible still remains.

You have to understand that you have never seen the bible nor will you be able to.
The text that you see is censored material aimed at the promulgation of a church society.
If you were to ever see the thousands of volumes of text there would be no churches.
What you see was geared toward establishing the Christian religion under the direction of Constantine.
The Old Testament is based on stories that were passed from generation to generation. Again the Scribes passed along that which was considered to be in the best interest of the establishment.
There are no inconsistancies between science and God. There are just fanatics and non-believers who can't understand that God may actually operate in a fashion that is logical, scientific and loving.

Sure you can, if you go looking for them.

My relgion teacher at my first high school (Catholic school in PA) had a bunch of religous texts that didn't make the cut, so to speak.
They are hard to find because they aren't printed much.
There isn't much demand for a new run copy of the Gospel according to Thomas. But if you look you can find it.

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son. . . bring him out unto the elders of his city. . .And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. . ." - Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Deuteronomy is my favorite book. Say that in a religion class and you get some weird looks.

There are inconsistancies because for many years before the hebrews had an alphabet, these stories were oral tradition. And when it came down to finally getting things to paper, it was several groups of people that wrote the "interpretations". I say interpretations because there are even older stories that predate the bible, but match word for word many of the same fables and moral tenets. The Epic of Gilgamesh, 2700 BC for one, which itself includes even older oral fables. Ancient languages into newer version will always require a bit of "compromise" when it comes down retelling a story.

[url]http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/gilgamesh.html[/url]

Let's not forget Adam and Eve. Or should I say Adam and Lilith. Created at the same time from the same soil, "equals". But Lilith was, excuse the phrase, a biotch. Let's just say that she liked to be on top and wouldn't take crap from Adam. She eventually was turned into a demon for ignoring commandments from the Angels to return to Adam. She abandoning him to hang out with the other occupants of Eden. To this day, Lilith is still part of Bible mythology, if you don't behave, "Lilith will get ya"!

Eve didn't arrive until Adam asked for a new mate, one that would be more subserviant and thus made from Adam's rib.

And what about Cain. He was bannished to Nod after killing his brother and branded with a mark so that others would not kill him in revenge. "Who are these others mentioned" I take it that this means that there were other humans living in Nod, but Cain and Able were supposed to be the first and only offspring? Hmmmm....

Leaving aside questions about whether the Bible was divinely inspired or simply written by men as a means to control the unwashed masses, the main reason for the current inconsistencies is that the original text has been translated a number of times by different people, and edited by still more to fit their agenda or that of their group.  Be interesting to see what passages lie in the Vatican that were edited out of the first translations.

The entire book as it exists today is a product of a voted effort as various texts were compiled and reviewed by the Council of Trent. Now you even have a greater complexity from several generations of translation, PLUS the added factor of a Bible-by-Committee. The original scriptures left out several books which exist today and have since ommitted a great deal of others (the Apocrypha for example).

How can this be a devine work of completeness upon which to base a complete and total faith?

Because it's a fairytale.  Religion is the poor man's opiate.

It was his sister you genius!

Hey Ben and Steyr!

You ever read the Bible?  I mean beginning to end, cover to cover.  Ever seriously studied it?  I don't just mean from a religious perspective, how about from a historical, political, sociological standpoint?  Or are you just a couple of ignorant jackasses aping what you have heard from other ignorant jackasses.  Steyr, if you took the time to read just the two page intro to ANY copy of the King James Version you would see that it was translated from the Byzantine Text of the scripture by a group of scholars and then PRESENTED to King James.  IT WAS NOT WRITTEN BY KING JAMES!  So your inane little quip about Kings interpreting God for us is just pure stupid-assed bullshit!You pointy nosed anti-God pseudo-intellectuals really ought to do some research before you start spouting off.  I am a Christian, but I am not of the hide behind a fake smile, don't be confrontational variety.  Before you decide to take a dump on religion, do some honest research, AND DON'T JUST READ PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY SAYING WHAT YOU BELIEVE!  And before you tell me to do the same I will tell you that I took three semesters on the New Testament with JOHN DOMINIC CROSSAN (for those of you who don't know he is one of the leading scholars in the "Jesus Seminar," a bunch of lettered and learned men who have made it their mission to de-bunk the Bible). I just love it when people who have never seriously read the Bible become experts on how flawed it is.
If you want a list of authors to read on both sides of the argument I will get it for you.  But make sure you read the book before you start tearing it apart.

Yes, it is what convinced me.




I know King James didn't write it. But do you believe he ruled by divine right from God?



I just love it when people assume I never read it cause I don't buy into it.

Hey pricknose, if you are such a Christian then what business do you have making such assumptions and calling me a jackass?

You go off on some rant but you obviously didn't read any of this thread except for maybe some highlighting before you launched your ignorant tirade like the exceptional ambassador to Christianity that you obviously are?

I can guarantee you I have read the Bible in depth more than you have read the things posted on here.

Since when did I ever say King James interpreted the bible? For your information Mr. Jackass, I attended seminary for a while. Before I ever got to seminary I had already studied the Bible, as well as most other major world religions since my pre-teen years.

I am doing honest research as I have done for over 15 years. However, it seems that in doing my "research", there's no shortage of Christians like yourself who jump on the stereotypical, knowitalliamsavedandyouarenotsoyouarelessofahumanthanmebowbeforemeinmygodgivenglory bandwagon. There's no shortage of Jesus freaks to attack me with their viperous tongues and call me names. There's no shortage of zealots. All because I dare ask the same unanswered question that have been asked for centuries.

Sign me right the fuck up. Where can I join such an organization so I can be like you?

Pseudointellectuals? You sure have convinced me of your great acadamian prowess... and your God....

NOT

What is truth?
What is justice?
What's this, hemlock?

Yep. Asking questions can get you into a whole lot of trouble, not just with Christians.

I've resisted this thread for a while, it's been done and I don't learn much from it.

But I hope you're not intending to bash ALL Christians for the antics of some of the vocal ones you've encountered.

I'm sure you've met some very "Christ-like" Christians in your day who did try ministering to others instead of bashing them over the head.

Be careful not to insult our religion or God. It gets you nowhere.

.....(shakingheadyesyourrightyorkplates)....its as simple as that.

I am not trying to insult anyone's religion. I am trying to understand your truth because it helps me find where my truth falls in the scale.

Of course I have met some wonderful Christian people. But the common thread is their willingness to stop asking specific questions and just suffice to say that "it's all in God's hands".

My mind isn't so easily assured. Especially when there are many philosophical and intellectual treasures that have been completely rejected by Christianity because their pursuit causes them to do that awful thinking thing.

I am extremely well versed in the history of the Bible. I am also extremely versed in the literary aspects of the bible. I am also well versed in other religions. Enough so to say, "wait a second, there's no one faith that has the complete truth."

I have a theory that up until the Tower of Babel, everyone understood the original "truth". I buy into the myth of Babel as archeologists have recently uncovered what is believed to be it's remains.

There is also clear differences in communication following the time period of Babel. When the languages were separated, so was the complete understanding of the truth. We have never been capable of pulling a common truth together since that time. I theorize that this is because you cannot make a literal, complex thought translation from any one language to another. Therefore, telling a version of the truth is approximated. Over the generations, fragments of the truth have been compartmentalized within each culture around the globe.

In essence, no one religion contains the complete and total story. But I also believe that bits and pieces of the total story within each version comprise something greater than what we currently understand. I say this because there are too many common themes between religions. There's as many similarities as there are differences.

I am perfectly comfortable sitting here on the fence saying "I don't know". The problem is that it never gets beyond that point of homeostasis. Unfortunately, when I venture out to talk to people in an effort to learn more, I am usually greeted with the typical stuff witnessed on here. From BOTH sides. Atheists and faithful alike cannot stand an agnostic.

Ever read any Robert Green Ingersoll?

Reply from [b]PRICKNOSE[/b]

Ok, the only thing I addressed was the seeming ignorance of your opening posts.  Steyr mentions that "Even the current King James Bible is inherently flawed as it was written by a monarch" Which leads me to assume that he obviously hasn't given the topic serious study.  I too am a failed seminarian, from the tone of my posts you can probably reckon why.  I don't have the patience and tact required.  I also don't comment usually on these threads unless they piss me off.  Whether you accept or reject Jesus is your business, between you and Him.  I will not loose sleep over your decision.  I am not here trying to tell you that I am right and you are wrong, only that before you reject something that might cost you your soul, you research it.  Looks like you have and if your decision is well founded then I respect it, and will not try to change your mind.
As for calling me a pricknose and then asking me what kind of Christian I am because I called you out for something I considered bullshit...  Lets just say that I am the kind of Christian who thinks its between you and God.  If you have been given pearls of wisdom and trample them underfoot, if you continually resist the wooing of the Holy Spirit, if all this is true and you find yourself in Hell when you die, well then buddy, you can only blame yourself.  I know I am going to get flamed for this by both sides, but my "Christian compassion" only goes as far as where your hard-headedness begins.  After that I could care less.  I know I will answer for this.  I guess its where my Christianity ends and my Libertarianism starts.  You are free my friend to believe, accept, reject, etc...  I am secure enough in what I believe not to worry too much about what you believe.  I just think that if you are going to get up on a website and potificate then you should have your facts straight and your topic researched.

This all being said, I'd lay down some suppressive cover fire for you any time if TSHTF!

[50][uzi]

JackBurton, are you Lutheran?

REPLY FROM JACKASS

Calling me out for something that you think is bullshit by initiating a name calling session is crass at best. Do you always call people names when you disagree with them?

Please make a distinction between me and someone else because you addressed two people in the same way for the statements made by only one of the two.

I would sure hate to be in your family. How abusive.

For clarification. When I write things I sometimes error as I do not simply copy/paste from a source. Should have read "written [b]for[/b] a monarch." The error is mine and I hope this clears any confusion.

[b]I'M SORRY!!!![/b]

I shouldn't have called you a jackass.  Note the time of my post, it was late, I had had a few beers!  I was a jerk and I'm sorry.  Its easy to get pissed and say things behind the annonymity of the internet.  OK?

For the record, I am a Calvinist (now ducking for cover... [flame]

AMEN!

Bendover, keep reading! inconsistencies is from man not Jehovah...

I’m still confused about how you quote things from the Bible, which isn’t in the Bible.  

You posted earlier:

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not."
Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent."
Ezekiel 24:14 "I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent."
James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
Genesis 6:6,7 "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth . . . And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth . . . for it repenteth me that I have made him."
Jonah 3:10 ". . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."


Now the ACTUAL verses:

Malachi 3:6-NKJ
“For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Numbers 23:19-NKJ:
"God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"
James 1:17-NKJ:
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
Exodus 32:14-NKJ
So the Lord relented from the harm, which He said He would do to His people.
Genesis 6:6-7-NKJ
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7- So the Lord said,” I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the face of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."
Jonah 3:10-NKJ
Then God saw their works, that they turn from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

I do not feel that anyone can "convince" someone to believe in the Bible,Jesus, or the existance of God.  It's not a sales pitch. It's a faith issue. I do not think I am perfect. I only know that I am forgiven.  I have faith that Jesus Christ is my own personal Lord and Savior.

Accepted.

I am sorry for retaliating with pricknose. As a matter of consistent practice, I try to refrain from attacking anyone personally with names just because I disagree with them. I usually don't tolerate it from others either. It's one thing to completely disagree and flame away on the topic. It's another to become angry and deviate from the topic with a personal attack.

We're cool. Thanks for being a standup guy and apologizing. That says a lot about you.

[:)]

Bendover,
The Bible is NOT an all inclusive history of the world with ALL the details.  There is much it does not say.  Many mysteries left unrevealed.  Were this not so, the Bible would be millions of pages long!

However, scripture does tell everything that is needed for us to know the really important things such as God's personality, His plan for our salvation, etc.  

As for where did Cain's wife come from:  Who knows.  Very possible God directly created others than Adam and Eve.  Bible does not say He didn't.  

Refer to Genesis 6 verse 4:  "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days".  Who were those guys? Who knows.  Maybe Cain's wife was one of those "Nephilim".  Does not really matter, but interesting as can be.

Are there inconsistencies in the Bible?  Not really.  Just sometimes there is no clear and easy to find answer in an extremely complicated combined history, biography, autobiography, prophecy book autuhored by the creator of all things.

Keep looking.  You'll find your answers.

BTW, I am one of the ignorant uneducated Southerners refered to in other posts, so please forgive my misspelling.