I find it difficult to muster any emotion for this issue at all... where's that "Give-a-f*ck-o-meter" gif?

Pedestrians or motorists or suspects or party or witness, or dignitary, but never civilian.

Quoted: Are they not civilians also? They are not in the military... Is this further evidence of the militarization of our police force? Does it indicate a "us versus them" mentality in the police force?

...cause it makes em feel special.

actually, I'd wager that the ones that get off on pretending to be something other than a civilian are the ones who get all billybadass ...talking bout "respect my aouthoritai!"

All the cops I know don't see any distinction, but this is arfcom so I'm sure some d-bag is waiting to point out the differences.

Quoted: Quoted: Are they not civilians also? They are not in the military... Is this further evidence of the militarization of our police force? Does it indicate a "us versus them" mentality in the police force? ...cause it makes em feel special. actually, I'd wager that the ones that get off on pretending to be something other than a civilian are the ones who get all billybadass ...talking bout "respect my aouthoritai!" All the cops I know don't see any distinction, but this is arfcom so I'm sure some d-bag is waiting to point out the differences.

the flip side of that is that the only civilians who have a problem with it also have a problem with authority in general.

Quoted: photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=44452

Right click, save for future use.

Quoted: they are gods you lowly civie..   < runs to get popcorn .. > they think they are better then you and me.   Plain and simple.

Bingo!

To set themselves apart from, and above the rabble.   They enjoy the protection of the constitution, civilian legal system, and their various unions.  They are civilians through and through.

The ones who want to elevate themselves above us mere civilians should be subject to the  UCMJ.  As any veteran here can attest, the UCMJ is no picnic.  There are good reasons why people who serve in the Military are revered.

It is the worst kind of self delusion for LEO's to try and equate their jobs to the actual Service performed by those who protect our Nation.

To any LEO's who are insulted by this:  I'm not saying you are any less worthy than any other civilian.  You are equal. You contribute.  We all do.

Quoted: Quoted: they are gods you lowly civie..   < runs to get popcorn .. > they think they are better then you and me.   Plain and simple.   Bingo!

so if military aren't civilians, is it because they're pricks and think they're better than you too?  same with firemen?

People still complaining about this?  

Low Post Count - Check
Trolling Topic - Check
Asshat Cophaters in the thread - Check



Dead horse, leave it the fuck alone.

Next time I get pulled over I will flash my CAC card and refer to the officer as a civilian, think itll get me off the ticket?

Quoted: Low Post Count - Check Trolling Topic - Check Asshat Cophaters in the thread - Check Dead horse, leave it the fuck alone.

Quoted: who cares

+

Quoted: Quoted: Is this further evidence of the militarization of our police force?   With shit like this caught on tape it's hard for them to deny it any more. VIDEO LINK

That was smooth.  I am about to quit clicking on links to youtube...or at least memorize the number to that video.  I get rickrolled once a week.

Quoted: To set themselves apart from, and above the rabble.   They enjoy the protection of the constitution, civilian legal system, and their various unions.  They are civilians through and through. The ones who want to elevate themselves above us mere civilians should be subject to the  UCMJ.  As any veteran here can attest, the UCMJ is no picnic.  There are good reasons why people who serve in the Military are revered. It is the worst kind of self delusion for LEO's to try and equate their jobs to the actual Service performed by those who protect our Nation. To any LEO's who are insulted by this:  I'm not saying you are any less worthy than any other civilian.  You are equal.

Well said.
Cops(LEO's) are Civilians.

Quoted: Quoted: To set themselves apart from, and above the rabble.   They enjoy the protection of the constitution, civilian legal system, and their various unions.  They are civilians through and through. The ones who want to elevate themselves above us mere civilians should be subject to the  UCMJ.  As any veteran here can attest, the UCMJ is no picnic.  There are good reasons why people who serve in the Military are revered. It is the worst kind of self delusion for LEO's to try and equate their jobs to the actual Service performed by those who protect our Nation. To any LEO's who are insulted by this:  I'm not saying you are any less worthy than any other civilian.  You are equal. Well said. Cops(LEO's) are Civilians.

+10000000000000000000000

there are 300,000,000 people in this country minus about 5,000 that don't care if, by definition, cops and fireman are not called 'civilians'

the 5,000 are gun nuts and conspiracy nuts who have a problem with authority to begin with.

well I had to sit through the fucking movie called "Waitress" today with my wife, it was almost as stupid as this thread, atleast that dumb ass movie was about pie and there was some minor sex scenes.

Quoted: To set themselves apart from, and above the rabble.   They enjoy the protection of the constitution, civilian legal system, and their various unions.  They are civilians through and through. The ones who want to elevate themselves above us mere civilians should be subject to the  UCMJ.  As any veteran here can attest, the UCMJ is no picnic.  There are good reasons why people who serve in the Military are revered. It is the worst kind of self delusion for LEO's to try and equate their jobs to the actual Service performed by those who protect our Nation. To any LEO's who are insulted by this:  I'm not saying you are any less worthy than any other civilian.  You are equal. You contribute.  We all do.

Quoted: Are they not civilians also?

Most are. Depends on how close the PD is to major military bases. About 20% of my coworkers are full time cops and part time marines or sailors.

Its just an abitrary term to differentiate them from cops, witness, suspcet, victim. looky loo or busy body may be a better term. citizen doesnt work because so few are.

Quoted: What is the moral difference, if any, between a Citizen and a Civilian?

Citizen only applies to about 60% of the people in my patrol area.

What about Police Officers who serve in the Armed Forces Reserve?  There's a curveball.....there are quite a few of those out there......

I don't.  Unless I'm talking to another cop and want to emphazise a non-leo.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is this further evidence of the militarization of our police force?   With shit like this caught on tape it's hard for them to deny it any more. VIDEO LINK That was smooth.  I am about to quit clicking on links to youtube...or at least memorize the number to that video.  I get rickrolled once a week.

Lol, every cop/hate thread needs a rickroll...kinda like an intermission.

civilian  
 
Main Entry: ci·vil·ian  
Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1
— civilian adjective





citizen


Main Entry: cit·i·zen  
Pronunciation: \ˈsi-tə-zən also -sən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English citizein, from Anglo-French citezein, alteration of citeien, from cité city
Date: 14th century
1: an inhabitant of a city or town; especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman
2 a: a member of a state b: a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it
3: a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state
— cit·i·zen·ly  \-zən-lē also -sən-\ adjective
synonyms citizen, subject, national mean a person owing allegiance to and entitled to the protection of a sovereign state. citizen is preferred for one owing allegiance to a state in which sovereign power is retained by the people and sharing in the political rights of those people <the rights of a free citizen>. subject implies allegiance to a personal sovereign such as a monarch <the king's subjects>. national designates one who may claim the protection of a state and applies especially to one living or traveling outside that state <American nationals working in the Middle East>.

Them vs. Us

I think the "Us vs. them" issue gets exaggerated quiet a bit on the internet. For reasons seperate from "mainstream" society.

One of the biggest issues here is what i call the "that could be me factor." Gun rights activists see the drug dealer or pedophile whose door gets kicked in. Their gut reaction is that could be me, because of the way guns get demonized in the press and by police administrators. This causes the gun rights activists to have an emotional response that often makes them identify more with the crooks than the cops they likely have much more in common with.

In the real world there is a seperate issue. Its not that cops look down on non-cops. Its that cops pretty much ignore non-cops. You simply are not a player on our field. We work in a world of cops and robbers or cowboys and indians and you are not part of that world. So whether the term is civilian, citizen, bystander or whatever. What it means in context is all those uninvolved people who do not play any role in our endless contest beyond that of spectator.

I have often wondered why a guy that goes to work and answers to a Sergeant, who answers to a guy everyone calls "EL-TEE" who answers to a Captain...well, how in the world does this guy get the idea that he's a part of a para-military organization?

Seriously, police agencies have been set up along para-military line since before you were born.

Quoted: I have often wondered why a guy that goes to work and answers to a Sergeant, who answers to a guy everyone calls "EL-TEE" who answers to a Captain...well, how in the world does this guy get the idea that he's a part of a para-military organization? Seriously, police agencies have been set up along para-military line since before you were born.

All the way back to Roman times.

Same period when the first firefighters were not fighting fires they were acting as policemen.

Edited for accuracy.

Quoted: I posted this before but can't find it, basically I -don't have sex with girls

Sorry, had to keep you honest Aimless.

Quoted: Quoted: photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=44452 Right click, save for future use.

Thank you, I worked hard on that.

Quoted: Because cops are not civilians. ci·vil·ian      /sɪˈvɪlyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-vil-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.   2. Informal. anyone regarded by members of a profession, interest group, society, etc., as not belonging; nonprofessional; outsider: We need a producer to run the movie studio, not some civilian from the business world.   3. a person versed in or studying Roman or civil law.   –adjective 4. of, pertaining to, formed by, or administered by civilians

Nice try, probably taken form a dictionary written by the same group of people that will tell you the 2A only applies to forces formed by a State and not an individual. Specifically, it appears your definition comes from dictionary.com. Police and firefighting were not added until later. Unfortunately, I do not have an older analog dictionary to reference where the change came.

Check this link out for different definitions: Link

Follow the chains:
Civilian, civil law, civil court, civil suits

Military, Armed forces, UCMJ, courts-martial

Now most of the time I hear of LEO being dragged into court it is civil court and not military, therefore they are civilians. LEO and fire departments may refer to people not on their agency as civilians as a common practice of easy distinction for them, but it bastardizes the legal terminology and distinction between them as civilians and those in the military.

Even more specifically as related to UCMJ: 814. ART. 14. DELIVERY OF OFFENDERS TO CIVIL AUTHORITIES

(a) Under such regulations as the Secretary concerned may prescribe, a member of the armed forces accused of an offense against civil authority may be delivered, upon request, to the civil authority for trial.

(b) When delivery under this article is made to any civil authority of a person undergoing sentence of a court-martial, the delivery, if followed by conviction in a civil tribunal, interrupts the execution of the sentence of the court-martial, and the offender after having answered to the civil authorities for his offense shall, upon the request of competent military authority, be returned to military custody for the completion of his sentence.

Now if the military delivers someone to a civil authority who the heck is that civil authority if not civilian LEO be it Federal, State or local LE? It sure as heck isn't the town council.

This gets covered at least 2 times per year on ARFCOM, last thread I remember posting in about this was started by BamaShooter possibly circa 2006.

LEO are civil servants and therefore civilians, not to be confused with our military members.

Oh and IBT civilians can fall under UCMJ, I know that too - in certain situations.

Who the fuck really cares?

Quoted: Who the fuck really cares?

obviously the person that posted before you.  

Quoted: Quoted: Who the fuck really cares? obviously the person that posted before you.

Is he a cop or a civilian?

Quoted: Quoted: Who the fuck really cares? obviously the person that posted before you.

No shit.

Quoted: I posted this before but can't find it, basically I -don't get drunk -don't drive like a moron -don't hang around in bars -don't hang around in strip clubs -don't hang around in crack houses -don't hang around with criminals -don't hang around with complete idiots -don't have sex with girls married to cops -don't have sex with girls who have had sex with cops in the past -don't have sex with girls who are cops, and -am home and usually asleep from about 9 or 10pm until somewhere between 5 and 7 am Because of this I really don't have much of an opportunity to mix it up with police officers. There are plenty of obnoxious dumbasses out there for them to "oppress" without bothering with me.

Damn aimless, you live a pretty dull life.. No partying, No sex, stay on ARFCOM & in bed by 9

Quoted: Is he a cop or a civilian?

civilan

You can call yourself whatever you makes you happy.  


If your uniform was not issued by one of the branches of the military, you might be a civilian.  

If you can "call in sick" to your place of employment, you might be a civilian.

Quoted: Quoted: Because cops are not civilians. ci·vil·ian      /sɪˈvɪlyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-vil-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.   2. Informal. anyone regarded by members of a profession, interest group, society, etc., as not belonging; nonprofessional; outsider: We need a producer to run the movie studio, not some civilian from the business world.   3. a person versed in or studying Roman or civil law.   –adjective 4. of, pertaining to, formed by, or administered by civilians Nice try, probably taken form a dictionary written by the same group of people that will tell you the 2A only applies to forces formed by a State and not an individual. Specifically, it appears your definition comes from dictionary.com. Police and firefighting were not added until later. Unfortunately, I do not have an older analog dictionary to reference where the change came. Check this link out for different definitions: Link Follow the chains: Civilian, civil law, civil court, civil suits Military, Armed forces, UCMJ, courts-martial Now most of the time I hear of LEO being dragged into court it is civil court and not military, therefore they are civilians. LEO and fire departments may refer to people not on their agency as civilians as a common practice of easy distinction for them, but it bastardizes the legal terminology and distinction between them as civilians and those in the military. Even more specifically as related to UCMJ: 814. ART. 14. DELIVERY OF OFFENDERS TO CIVIL AUTHORITIES (a) Under such regulations as the Secretary concerned may prescribe, a member of the armed forces accused of an offense against civil authority may be delivered, upon request, to the civil authority for trial. (b) When delivery under this article is made to any civil authority of a person undergoing sentence of a court-martial, the delivery, if followed by conviction in a civil tribunal, interrupts the execution of the sentence of the court-martial, and the offender after having answered to the civil authorities for his offense shall, upon the request of competent military authority, be returned to military custody for the completion of his sentence. Now if the military delivers someone to a civil authority who the heck is that civil authority if not civilian LEO be it Federal, State or local LE? It sure as heck isn't the town council. This gets covered at least 2 times per year on ARFCOM, last thread I remember posting in about this was started by BamaShooter possibly circa 2006. LEO are civil servants and therefore civilians, not to be confused with our military members. Oh and IBT civilians can fall under UCMJ, I know that too - in certain situations.

What do you call a military members brought forth on charges before a civilian court?
A civilian.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is this further evidence of the militarization of our police force?   With shit like this caught on tape it's hard for them to deny it any more. VIDEO LINK That was smooth.  I am about to quit clicking on links to youtube...or at least memorize the number to that video.  I get rickrolled once a week. Lol, every cop/hate thread needs a rickroll...kinda like an intermission.

goddammit, my first.... i get it now.... sick bastards.