Why do 2 man sniper teams have 1 rifle and 1 spotting scope. Why not 2 rifles? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why do 2 man sniper teams have 1 rifle and 1 spotting scope. Why not 2 rifles? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/6/2009 12:48:09 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
On the history channel they had a sniper from iraq on there. He said his spotter carried a m4 or m16 (i dont remember which) and he would engage the close in targets that may require more than 1 shot such as guy running back to the car or multiple close in threats.

I've also heard of spotters carrying M4/203 combos to discourage pursuit if they have to unass their position in a hurry. Nothing like dropping a few 40mm rounds onto the bad guys to change their minds about chasing you.

Posted: 10/6/2009 12:57:29 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Posted: 10/6/2009 12:59:44 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Uh-huh.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:00:49 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The spotter usually carries an M4. Better for defense.

Using the scope, the spotter can better evaluate targets, he can estimate wind speed using the mirage, and he can call out shot adjustments or confirm results. The spotter is also a skilled sniper, they can swap tasks.

This

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:01:03 PM EDT

[#5]

we have some regular couchborne experts here...

if a team is operating as a 2 man element they will both be armed. you can't get outside the wire unless you are armed. Ive seen two man teams, three man teams, and 7 man teams with a 5 man security element who clears a building they are going to set up an OP in. you can have as many or as few as needed, its mission dependent.

usually the spotter has an M4/M203, ive even seen them go out with a SAW or an M14.

the spotter is by doctrine the senior member of the team, but not necessarily "smarter" or better. again this is all mission dependent. Sniper sections get more leeway in adapting themselves to meet their needs.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:01:06 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Uh-huh.

Go look up the name Joe Harris ......... served with 1b375, see what info you can come up with.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:01:54 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The spotter usually carries an M4. Better for defense.

Using the scope, the spotter can better evaluate targets, he can estimate wind speed using the mirage, and he can call out shot adjustments or confirm results. The spotter is also a skilled sniper, they can swap tasks.

This. The spotter will be carrying a weapon but more for defense than offense.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:02:18 PM EDT

[#8]

From my experience shooting long range, that even though I can stablise myself enough to see impacts as close in as 100y @10x mag, having a spotter at longer ranges to read my trace and tell me what wind looked like or give their assesment has helped alot. Without a proper/solid position to mitigate recoil, it's essential to determining the point of impact. Building a perfect position may not be possible due to terrain, time constraints or whatever else that comes up.

I'd venture to guess the man who is better at reading wind and ballistic related calls will be the one spotting.. They could be equally skilled at pulling a trigger, but it would make more sence for the person better at juding those variables to have a better view of them.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:04:29 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Any "monkey" can pull the trigger??? You try it once.

Once..... that's your only chance in real life.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:06:30 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Go look up the name Joe Harris ......... served with 1b375, see what info you can come up with.

1Plt B Co 3-75 Ranger would be a better way to look that up. what you posted makes no sense.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:07:13 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

outsyd some of the shit that comes out of your mouth amazes me. this is like the 3rd time i've seen you step on your dick and it's hilarious. hey remember when you said any rifle that can shoot 1/2 moa at 100 can do it at 1000? that was some funny shit too. i guess the "former sniper instructor with the rangers" told you that too though huh? anyway back to the subject. we do go out with 2 rifles if the mission will allow. it will always be an m24 and m110 though, so that we have enough firepower for an up close fight. 2 guys sitting in a house with bolt guns wouldn't be a very good idea....

oh by the way i'm the spotter so i guess that makes me the smart one.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:09:44 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Go look up the name Joe Harris ......... served with 1b375, see what info you can come up with.

What's the supposed to prove? Mr. Harris might well be a former SSDG, that doesn't mean he is responsible for the bullshit you're shoveling here.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:09:50 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Oh holy hell this is the stupidest post of the day week month year eVAR.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:14:37 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

outsyd some of the shit that comes out of your mouth amazes me. this is like the 3rd time i've seen you step on your dick and it's hilarious. hey remember when you said any rifle that can shoot 1/2 moa at 100 can do it at 1000? that was some funny shit too. i guess the "former ranger instructor" told you that too though huh? anyway back to the subject. we do go out with 2 rifles if the mission will allow. it will always be an m24 and m110 though, so that we have enough firepower for an up close fight. 2 guys sitting in a house with bolt guns wouldn't be a very good idea....

oh by the way i'm the spotter so i guess that makes me the smart one.

Aaaaaand </thread>.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:15:12 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

. Any monkey can pull a trigger.

you know this for fact? ok son... put the soldier of fortune magazine down...

AFTER you go win a high power shooting match come back and tell the rest of us how any monkey can do it. until then...stfu

I have to agree, this really was a dumb statement.
I personally own 3 monkeys, and NONE of them know how to shoot yet, despite my best efforts.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:17:21 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

I wouldn't say "smarter" just more experienced.
The idea is to have the most skilled of the two spotting to increase cold bore/first shot kills.
Everyone knows you can't just sit in one spot for too long so to make every shot count as much as possible the most skilled man does the calculations.

Every monkey can pull a trigger but not all can hit a target at 800m,you need two skilled guys to make a sniper team.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:22:03 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

outsyd some of the shit that comes out of your mouth amazes me. this is like the 3rd time i've seen you step on your dick and it's hilarious. hey remember when you said any rifle that can shoot 1/2 moa at 100 can do it at 1000? that was some funny shit too. i guess the "former sniper instructor with the rangers" told you that too though huh? anyway back to the subject. we do go out with 2 rifles if the mission will allow. it will always be an m24 and m110 though, so that we have enough firepower for an up close fight. 2 guys sitting in a house with bolt guns wouldn't be a very good idea....

oh by the way i'm the spotter so i guess that makes me the smart one.

This is why he won't post back in this thread.

As for the subject of the thread, I default anything I may have spewed out to those that have served or are currently serving.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:22:08 PM EDT

[#18]

Rogue, slightly off topic... But I've heard varying things about branches issuing LRFs.. Are they fairly standard issue?

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:27:37 PM EDT

[#19]

yeah we're using viper lrf's. they're great to have but remember your fundamentals and know how to range estimate with your eyes, binos and scope.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:45:42 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Uh-huh.

I don't know...this guy sounds legit.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:45:46 PM EDT

[#21]

Canadian teams and from what I understand a lot of SOCOM in Afghanistan are movng to 3 man teams - spotter, shooter, and a watcher to ensure they don't get flanked.

Posted: 10/6/2009 1:48:09 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Uh-huh.

I don't know...this guy sounds legit.

He is legit, and he is a member here as well. Nice guy, hell of a shot. Buddy of mine served in regiment with him. His teenage daughter also beats the hell out of most in the local 3 gun scene.
I cannot vouch for the comments though.

Posted: 10/6/2009 2:11:35 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

outsyd some of the shit that comes out of your mouth amazes me. this is like the 3rd time i've seen you step on your dick and it's hilarious. hey remember when you said any rifle that can shoot 1/2 moa at 100 can do it at 1000? that was some funny shit too. i guess the "former sniper instructor with the rangers" told you that too though huh? anyway back to the subject. we do go out with 2 rifles if the mission will allow. it will always be an m24 and m110 though, so that we have enough firepower for an up close fight. 2 guys sitting in a house with bolt guns wouldn't be a very good idea....

oh by the way i'm the spotter so i guess that makes me the smart one.

This is why he won't post back in this thread.

As for the subject of the thread, I default anything I may have spewed out to those that have served or are currently serving.

Lets see here, I havent made a comment in this thread because I wasnt at the keyboard? I have to be here to be able to type shit dont I?

Posted: 10/6/2009 2:14:25 PM EDT

[#24]

There's a whole lot of gunstore commando talk going on here.

Posted: 10/6/2009 2:16:37 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
The spotter sometimes has a rifle. During Hathcocks famous annihilation of the NVA company, his spotter was shooting an M14.

The spotter always has a rifle... He's also the sinper's security.

Posted: 10/6/2009 2:23:30 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Wow.

Just wow.

Posted: 10/6/2009 2:24:14 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Canadian teams and from what I understand a lot of SOCOM in Afghanistan are movng to 3 man teams - spotter, shooter, and a watcher to ensure they don't get flanked.

That's how I'd want to be setup...

Posted: 10/6/2009 3:25:28 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Makes sense to have the man with more field experience making the final call.

The roles change back and forth depending on the mission.

Your post made me think of this image from our friend Oleg Volk:

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/32131-4/youngsniperteam.jpg

LOL

Can you out shoot a first grader?

Posted: 10/6/2009 3:35:30 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

The spotter is the senior member of the team.

That's what I thought.

Posted: 10/6/2009 10:55:10 PM EDT

[#30]

Yes, you are right... Roque4 thats some funny shit allright.... kind of like cold water soap wash in dishwasher. huh..... Happy Hunting..... by the way fellas the senior man in his two man team is the spotter... and the better shot of the two.

GFteed.

Posted: 10/7/2009 1:21:43 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Go look up the name Joe Harris ......... served with 1b375, see what info you can come up with.

What's the supposed to prove? Mr. Harris might well be a former SSDG, that doesn't mean he is responsible for the bullshit you're shoveling here.

It proves that he's capable of googling a name to attribute that bullshit to!

Posted: 10/7/2009 1:32:18 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
To the OP and anyone else interested. Link is the 1997 field manual, it will answer your question, and much more.

Department of the Army FM 23-10

Edit. Sorry. I fixed the link, the other pdf was only the TOC.

Great info, thanks....

Posted: 10/7/2009 4:01:32 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

yeah ok... sure he was force recon with a double background in navy seal?

Posted: 10/7/2009 4:14:29 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Send him what you just posted and wait for his reply.

Posted: 10/7/2009 4:23:43 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true the "spotter" is the better shooter?

Not necessarilly .... although the spotter is usually looked at as the smarter of the two. Any monkey can pull a trigger, it takes brains to make the wind calls and be able to get the shooter on target if his first round is off.

Where did you hear that?

Former sniper instructor with the Rangers

Uh-huh.

Go look up the name Joe Harris ......... served with 1b375, see what info you can come up with.

you go look up col. jesse johnson jr and see what you come up with.
col johnson was my battalion commander while i was stationed at ft. bragg
col johnson set up the sniper program for the 82nd airborne.
col johnson HALOd into grenada way before the rangers jumped in or the marines landed.
col johnson commanded all SOF desert shield / desert storm.
any nit wit like you can drop names. some people on this board have vast experience on subjects discussed here! why do you continue to embarrass yourself?

be careful...someone may google his name and get his phone number or what range he belongs to. he may not like you dropping his name. just my.02c

Posted: 10/7/2009 4:59:56 AM EDT

[#36]

I loves me these threads.

'76-'86

You wonderful bastages that have humped the heavy stick or still are, God Bless.

Knowles
Johnson
Conrad
Trafoya
Mathews
Delisle
Williams
Perry {I love you now 'cause I'm old and remembering my youth... bet you're still a dick}

Conrad, I hope the Lord keeps giving you that, at least, once a week laugh that has the tears flowing.
Think you saved my life more than once.

Posted: 10/7/2009 7:07:51 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
I loves me these threads.

'76-'86
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/PA020074.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/PA020076.jpg

You wonderful bastages that have humped the heavy stick or still are, God Bless.

Knowles
Johnson
Conrad
Trafoya
Mathews
Delisle
Williams
Perry {I love you now 'cause I'm old and remembering my youth... bet you're still a dick}

Conrad, I hope the Lord keeps giving you that, at least, once a week laugh that has the tears flowing.
Think you saved my life more than once.

/Thread

Posted: 11/2/2009 1:24:14 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
To the OP and anyone else interested. Link is the 1997 field manual, it will answer your question, and much more.

Department of the Army FM 23-10

Edit. Sorry. I fixed the link, the other pdf was only the TOC.

Good grief. They have to explain that masculine pronouns don't necessarily mean only men?

Posted: 11/2/2009 1:31:16 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The spotter sometimes has a rifle. During Hathcocks famous annihilation of the NVA company, his spotter was shooting an M14.

John Burke? Didn't he run out of ball ammo and had to start shooting Hathcock's match ammo through the M14?

Wasn't Hathcock using a Model 70 in .30-06?

Posted: 11/2/2009 1:36:55 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
The USMC field manual is FMFM 1-3B but it is from 1984. It reads differently from the U.S. Army version.

It's actually been renamed:

MCWP 3-15.3 (MCWP is Marine Corps Warfighting Publication) It's the same pub just renamed. It hasn't been updated.

Posted: 11/3/2009 2:54:35 AM EDT

[#41]

I was in 1/6 STA in Afghanistan.

Our snipers were the guys who graduated school. It was that simple. If you weren't a hog, you didn't get a 40, period.

The hogs weren't necessarily the best shots, spotters, or even snipers, but they had the MOS.

ETA I wasn't one of them.