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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:08:25 PM EDT
[#1]
One of the difficulties I notice is that Science seems entirely willing to take on Religion, and when Science presents Facts religion presents Faith... The problem occurs when Science goes "You can't use that, you gotta use facts".
I'm sorry but thats just something that you really can't get away with. If your arguing religion you have to cede the possibility that some people just are privy to an entirely different experience then you, Perhaps faith provides something thats so fundamentally different from science and yet equally valid. Maybe the problem isnt that the faithfull have high collections of certain chemicals in thier brains, maybe these chemicals allow them to understand things you can't? I think its more a product of your own fear, of the tremendously small world that your capable of grasping, of the fact that science can be as ephereal and inconsequential to someone as Religion is to you. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:18:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: I'm no expert in these matters. However, I've read that in debates with equally qualified opponents, the Darwinians usually lose !! You've read wrong. Thank "God" this topic came up again, and Rik chimed in. I have the tape series here you can order to enlighten yourself of the many scientist of evolution who come forward to say the incredible lack of evidence for what they so jealously adhere to. They didn't read wrong and if you have any free time here is the number 1.800.229.word, Listners choice #2 Evolution, false. Evolution takes FAR more "faith" than creation, by a long shot. When you only listen to one side of a story you only get one side of a story. Kent, Born again in Christ Jesus |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:20:27 PM EDT
[#3]
I would like to add, at this point---since I forgot to do so before---that "evidence" and "proof" are two very different things.
There is NO science that disproves the existence or ascendancy of Jehovah through evidence, and there is plenty of evidence that supports his existence (as opposed to "evidence" supporting the existence of Oden or Baal or any other god other than Jehovah). It must really suck to be someone who adamantly opposes the existence of God. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:27:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: All those "God fearing" kooks we all know and wonder about aren't to blame. They can't help it. It's like being gay, a psychopath or a chronic drunk. It's genetic. After reading that study I dislike them a bit less. Please excuse me, as I do not mean to hijack the thread, but where has there been one single shred of proof that being gay is a genetic defect? There's been a lot of theory, but so far there is no scientific fact that I'm aware of. So far most of the hard evidence I've seen has been psychological, with many people who label themselves as gay having one or many similar childhood experiences growing up. Now if I can just find a chemical that gets them to shut up about Jesus. Gawd damn. "No thank you" generally works for me, and is exactly the phrase I use for Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons that come to my door offering literature. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:41:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Armed Liberal...
Science does not disprove the existance of God, nor does it prove the "Big Bang" theory. Sheesh...Our scientists do not even know how or why gravity works!!! In fact, gravity has EVERYTHING going against it. There is NO real reason why we should not be thrown into space. Sure, we know all the specifics of gravity and science uses them everyday, but there is no proof that it should exist. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:48:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: When you only listen to one side of a story you only get one side of a story. Kent, Born again in Christ Jesus And what side of the story is represented on that tape seies? Both, equally represented.....or just creationism attepting to debunk evolution? *See quote above* |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:48:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Anyone who reads what the Book of Daniel and the Book of the Revealtion have to say, and has any understanding of history, must logically conclude that what is written in those books is true. And if what is written in those two books is true, there MUST be [a] God, and what the REST of the Bible says is true also---but I would say that it must be read with a certain understanding of what is Gospel and what is not. This is ONLY True if you are a Biblical literalist. Please at least have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge this. Creationism is just as valid a theory as any and cannot be repudiated by any science. Then you haven't studied much science, nor do you understand what a scientist means when he/she says "theory". And no, Creationism is not even on the same planet as evolution theory. It has no place in science class, any more than spontaneous generation or the humors. The problem with so many fundamentalsist beliefs is that they ignore certain things, sauch as when God says "a thousand years is as a day, and a day is as a thousand years." A tough thing to swallow, but this means that time is irrelevant. I'm sorry, but this really bothers me. If you are a biblical literalist, then be a biblical literalist. The bible says 6 days for the creation. Not 6 days, but one day for God was really a thousand days, yada yada. But since the "science" of the bible doesn't jibe with scientific observation (in this case, the age of the universe and of earth), The creationist crowd has to start jockying the meaning of the words. I STILL don't understand why fundamentalist Christain's faith is so fragile that they can't accept what the scientific community has come to believe through study of the evidence at hand and instead insist that the religious writings of the ancient Hebrews are a valid scientific text book. Wake up! You don't have to give up God with creationism! |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:49:02 PM EDT
[#8]
A few weeks ago I was walking around the outside of a church, when I looked up and what did I see?
Lightning rods. Seems that if god really was all-powerful and he also gave a shit about his worshipers, there should be no need for lightning rods right? ...just something to chew on. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:53:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Hey I think science is great, I wouldn't be conversing with you people now if not for science. Would we all take a great big collective dump in our pants if science was taken from us and we had to go back to living in medieval times? Probably. Am I a better man than any who don't believe in God simply because I do? I don't think so. But I will let the fact that I didn't get hostile and stoop to calling some of you atheists, nutcases, condescending asses, poor, dumb, ignorant kooks or compare any of you to gays, psychopaths or chronic drunks speak for itself. Sad yet hardly surprising. It's what I have come to expect from people who dislike me because of what I believe and I admire
the fact that others have managed to avoid this also. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:35:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: And no, Creationism is not even on the same planet as evolution theory. It has no place in science class, any more than spontaneous generation or the humors. Funny thing is that spontaneous generation IS being taught in science classes. Current scientific understanding holds that molecules in inanimate clay/mud were believed to have "somehow" self-assembled into the earliest nucleic acids and proteins and then into primative prokaryotic cells. Sure, the original spontaneous generation theory was WAY off in it's claims of maggots emerging from rotting meat. But that general idea that life forms self-assembled from inanimate matter is currently holding strong. And it also looks like we are revisiting the long-discredited "ether" of the universe. Sooner or later, it seems many scientific beliefs end up getting a major overhaul or even just totally discarded, only to be reintroduced again decades or centuries later with a glossy new finish overlaying the same original principle. So don't hold too dear the complex and tenuous theories of evolution when they're built on such relatively weak pillars of evidence. right now it's just the best thing around, until something better comes along (or comes back - as in the case of spontaneous generation). |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:37:37 PM EDT
[#11]
GodBlessTexas, You got me. I was being unfair when I said being gay is a defect. That bias slipped out without my even catching it. Oops.
As for the studies on the causes of male homosexuality, there seems to be no one clear cause as you said. Gay men seem to have a genetic predisposition and a social trigger. 87% of lesbians admit to being sexually abused by adult men as children. That's a clear social trigger. But after loads of expensive, exacting studies gay men have no clear cut pattern. Last I read it was thought to be a bit of both genetic and social that causes the switch. How much of each it takes is still unknown. Perhaps I shortened my comment a tad too much, eh? As for God.. I have no internal compass that points His way. I don't feel something's missing. Understand, I don't mind the concept in itself. Someone to watch over me sounds reassuring. I mind the condescending looks from the "I'm so much better than you are" born agains. It just makes me want to shout at the top of my lungs "DON'T PITY ME YOU BRAIN DEAD INBRED ROOM TEMPERATURE I.Q. JACKASS!" You see they feel they're right, logic be damned.(Pardon the pun.) How can you discuss anything with a person who "feels" he's right? It's infuriating. Their brain's are switched off! In that case violence is the only recourse. Sort of a "Stand still and I'll make you feel something else buster" approach. Clearly that's not an option in modern America and you can't always walk away. So we non believers just have to take Their judgment. And smile. Try this: Imagine having to listen to rap music all over town. Nearly every place you go playing it. Loud. In no time you'd become a rap-phobic. You'd go way out of your way to avoid "those people". When you couldn't avoid them you'd smile wishing you were elsewhere or that they were dead, or both. Why? Because you can't argue with noise. With feelings. But they sure do make you angry. True it's a rough analogy but it fits. Laters. ps. Did you know that "goodbye" is a contraction of "Good be with you"? Argh!! |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:38:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: No, zonan, they are inbred hicks from a backwards Baptist town. [;D] Edit: No, I was not insulting any of you from the south. I really am curious if it is common for people down there to say things as foolish as "it's not our place to question". |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:43:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: ...just something to chew on. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:44:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Agreed with Mac. No matter which doctrine you align yourself to, you must come to terms with the fact that what you are espousing [i]is[/i] spontaneous generation - whether it is guided by a supernatural hand or is really spontaneous. You cannot, with validity, use the arguement that spontaneous generation is unlikely or impossible.
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:45:17 PM EDT
[#15]
The_Macallan,
Dude, you just proved his point. The difference between science and religion is exactly what you said. Science changes its opinion depending on the facts at present. Religion ignores the facts in favor of superstitious teachings from hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Science, by always changing it's mind, tries to follow the truth wherever it leads. It may seem confused but it's the truth. Or the best truth we have now! Religion is just horse poop that makes some weak minded people feel better. That's all. |
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Posted: 6/17/2002 10:55:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:I was serious, I have never heard anyone use those statements in any seriousness. But I am a yankee and have never been to the south for any extended period of time, so I suppose it's possible that some folks really are that stupid down there. But, as Tuvok, of Star Trek Voyager, said, "You cannot really believe that the universe creates living, thinking, feeling intelligent beings, only to just discard their mind when their body no longer functions." |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 6:41:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: The_Macallan, Dude, you just proved his point. The difference between science and religion is exactly what you said. Science changes its opinion depending on the facts at present. Religion ignores the facts in favor of superstitious teachings from hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Science, by always changing it's mind, tries to follow the truth wherever it leads. It may seem confused but it's the truth. Or the best truth we have now! Religion is just horse poop that makes some weak minded people feel better. That's all. Yes, I know. Science is like a dog chasing it's tail. Religion is a sleeping dog dreaming of chasing it's tail. Neither one may finally catch its tail, but at least one of them will be well-rested.[:D] [b]Yes, science DOES provide the means to obtaining [blue][u]sufficient answers[/u][/blue] to many questions in nature, though those answers may not be exactly correct. Through scientific inquiry, we are constantly "fine-tuning" our understanding of those answers.[/b] "Religion is just horse poop..."?!? No way!! There's SO MUCH that science is mute on that falls in the realm of religion! * What is the value of a human life? * Where do we derive our "natural rights"? * What is my duty to my fellow man? * What is the value of faith? Science is blind, deaf, dumb and impotent in addressing these important questions. [b]At least religion tries to address them and it DOES provide [blue][u]sufficient answers[/u][/blue] for millions (if not billions) of people. And though those answers may not be exactly correct, through our faith, we are constantly "fine-tuning" our understanding of those answers.[/b] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 6:52:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Current scientific understanding holds that molecules in inanimate clay/mud were believed to have "somehow" self-assembled into the earliest nucleic acids and proteins and then into primative prokaryotic cells. See my post in the other thread which started this one. Scientist have been able to take clay, put it under pressure, shoot electrcity through it and create amino acids, the basic building blocks of all life forms. Does this prove anything? Not really. You can take it either way. You can say, "This proves the evolution theory," or you can say, "No, the Bible says that God created man out of the dirt of the Earth and this just shows how he did it." |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:00:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Belief in God is one thing. Beleiving that the universe was created in 6 days is another. How many of you still beleive that the earth is the center of the universe?
Evidence for evolution is overwhelming. Evidence for creationism is nonexistent. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:11:47 AM EDT
[#20]
For the Christians on the board:
Please explain why evolution could not have been the Method your God used to "create" man. And please, DO NOT IGNORE THIS POINT! I think the argument has less to do with method, than it has to do with origin. Why *couldn't* God have used evolution as a tool of "His" work??? You can't bear the idea that "science" may have discovered a tool your God used??? You always seem to ignore this very basic statement, I would love to see some of you address this. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:14:28 AM EDT
[#21]
There is simply nothing that science can or should 'prove' about God.
Primitive men thought that the earth was the center of the universe and they did not have any Bible with which to be fooled by that idea! Besides, where in the Bible does it make a statement that the earth is the center of the universe? That's man's thinking, not God's. What we have today are scientists who believe that they have a handle on the [u]way[/u] the universe works, though not precisely [u]how[/u] it came together. That said, they are simply not suited to try and determine the answer to [u]why[/u] it came together. And they will be the first to admit it. Eric The(IfThey'reHonest)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:20:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Scientist will admit that there is much that they can't explain.
Over-zealous creationists have an answer for everything. I never trust anyone who claims to have all the answers. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:28:37 AM EDT
[#23]
I am a great lover of science....
But what is inner Peace.... Man's Mind applying science has created some wonderful things, these engines which help human productivity... Man's Mind applying science has created some very terrible engines, the can slaughter people by the billions.. So you think of those engines who's design is to dreprive you of the very thing that is so cherrished, you own life.... It can be done in a blink of an eye. Have you ever beheld a violent death??? Have you ever felt that feeling watching someone die abruptly, violently. That split second and its over.... That is something that is not easily forgotten, it hits you at the very core of your being. You see something that should not happen, it is just wrong.... Some inner voice , that you don't understand, screams , NO!!!!!! Science , yes you can describe the process very scientifically. But that does not lay down your concerns about what you have just beheld.. Not one bit.... What drives back the darkness of that moment???? What restores order to your world after that moment...... Science is one class of subjects, You are much larger then mere science... Those with knowledge of science is one thing, but there will come a time and place where that answer alone will not be enough.... And there will be someone waiting to say , "Hello" when you get to that place. EDITED TO ADD: What is it that allows you to know someone is not going to live, before they are actually dead. I mean they are fine in that moment something tells you they are not going to be... Before anything happens... And the thought hits you before it even happens... This man is going to die.... Where did that message come from??? You have just broken the supposed laws of physics, those that we know.. This precognition... What is that???? |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:32:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Anyone who reads what the Book of Daniel and the Book of the Revealtion have to say, and has any understanding of history, must logically conclude that what is written in those books is true. And if what is written in those two books is true, there MUST be [a] God, and what the REST of the Bible says is true also---but I would say that it must be read with a certain understanding of what is Gospel and what is not. This is ONLY True if you are a Biblical literalist. Please at least have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge this. Creationism is just as valid a theory as any and cannot be repudiated by any science. Then you haven't studied much science, nor do you understand what a scientist means when he/she says "theory". And no, Creationism is not even on the same planet as evolution theory. It has no place in science class, any more than spontaneous generation or the humors. The problem with so many fundamentalsist beliefs is that they ignore certain things, sauch as when God says "a thousand years is as a day, and a day is as a thousand years." A tough thing to swallow, but this means that time is irrelevant. I'm sorry, but this really bothers me. If you are a biblical literalist, then be a biblical literalist. The bible says 6 days for the creation. Not 6 days, but one day for God was really a thousand days, yada yada. But since the "science" of the bible doesn't jibe with scientific observation (in this case, the age of the universe and of earth), The creationist crowd has to start jockying the meaning of the words. I STILL don't understand why fundamentalist Christain's faith is so fragile that they can't accept what the scientific community has come to believe through study of the evidence at hand and instead insist that the religious writings of the ancient Hebrews are a valid scientific text book. Wake up! You don't have to give up God with creationism! Seems to me that your post proves that you haven't read the Bible, Legrue, so here you are claiming to know what scientific method is all about and at the same time disputing what is written in a book which you have never read. You might take a look at 2 Peter 3:8. BTW, I am quite familiar with science and am not afraid to accept what science can prove. But then again, 700 years ago the most brilliant minds agreed that the earth was flat and the center of the universe. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:33:46 AM EDT
[#25]
I simply don't hear very much of what you non-Christians claiming you're always hearing!
No one beats me over the head on the sidewalk about accepting Jesus as my personal Savior. No one berates me at the theatre when I buy a ticket for an R-rated movie. No Christian comes up to me at the Tejas Grill to ask me to put down that margarita and eschew the drinking of alcoholic beverages. No one in the Plano, Texas, Independent School District, is clamoring for the teaching of creation science in its classrooms. No one is expecting any bill out of the Texas Legislature that will require the teaching of creation science in Texas classrooms, or in presenting creation science in our text books. And we're talking about Texas. God Bless Texas, Texas. The Shining Buckle on the Bible Belt that sweeps across the Old South, Texas! So, where do you folks who get so worked up over creation science live? In Salt Lake City, Utah? [:D] I would have asked...'in Madeline Murray O'Hare's panties', but she's dead and knows better! Eric The(LevelHeaded)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:38:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Why doesn't the Bible mention dinosaurs?
They were cleary one of God's most awe inspiring creations.... There have been fossils found near "Biblical" sites. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:39:11 AM EDT
[#27]
When father Micheal Judge was killed in the WTC the fireman carried his body to the church and put it on the Alter... What made them do that???
Are those men cowards???? No bloody likely.. Are those men not knowing... No they know a great deal!!! What made them go to the Church??? |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:41:32 AM EDT
[#28]
The man who was shot in his torso, in the East Village, cried out for his Mom.
It's the same thing. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:45:58 AM EDT
[#29]
The man who was shot in his torso, in the East Village, cried out for his Mom. It's the same thing. What is that thing???? |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:47:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Fear of death, the desire to return to a place in which one fears comfort and safety.
For some it is family, others faith. It all depends on how you were raised, and how you instincts have been developed. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:49:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Fear of death, the desire to return to a place in which one fears comfort and safety. For some it is family, others faith. It all depends on how you were raised, and how you instincts have been developed Why is that necessary??? |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:50:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: The_Macallan, Dude, you just proved his point. The difference between science and religion is exactly what you said. Science changes its opinion depending on the facts at present. Religion ignores the facts in favor of superstitious teachings from hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Actually, thats not true. its was Chrsitianity's inflexibility in beleiving in migration and mutation (adaptation) that lead Darwin in the Galapagos Islands to, based on the mutation of finch beaks, begin considering the possiblitity of evolution. Today, Chrsitians widely accept (I dare say universally) the reality of migrations of species, and mutations (changes occurring over short periods of time, sometimes good, sometimes bad) Generally, generalizations as the one you made above are almost always false on some level, whether its the Creationists doing it to the evols, or versa vicey. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:56:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Why doesn't the Bible mention dinosaurs? They were cleary one of God's most awe inspiring creations.... There have been fossils found near "Biblical" sites. Good question, but I don't think it mentions giraffes either, and they are one of God's funniest creatures. I'm not sure it mentions ferrets or elk either. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 8:01:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: No throbbing veins, I swear. And let me say this before I drift off in to the arms of Morpheus. My vigor and opions may have cast a less than great impression of me at times, and I apologize for any disrespect that may have been expressed or perceived. It's times like this when I'm so thankful that Christians hold forgiveness in such high regard.[;)] Christians try to model themselves according to G*d's law. There is no forgivness without repentence. Your statement above get's you forgivness from the Christians here, but what about Him that they follow........ |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 8:32:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Seems to me that your post proves that you haven't read the Bible, Legrue, so here you are claiming to know what scientific method is all about and at the same time disputing what is written in a book which you have never read. You might take a look at 2 Peter 3:8. BTW, I am quite familiar with science and am not afraid to accept what science can prove. But then again, 700 years ago the most brilliant minds agreed that the earth was flat and the center of the universe. DD, Given the assumptions you are making and the conclussions you are drawing, I would stay away from the creation vs evolution debates if I were you. Assumption 1) I have not read the bible. Hmmm, which translation? King James? Douey and Rheems? (forgive sp), RSV? NRSV? Jerusalem? New Jerusalem? NIV? (my wife has a 4 year bible school certificate, but that isn't me). Let's see, what else, former Sunday school teacher? Eight years in Catholic school system? (won't mention the other stuff, not relevent). Anyway, I think I made my point. No, I don't have a MinDiv (which I doubt you have), but I can find my way around a bible thank-you-very-much. Assumption 2) I don't know scientific method. No, I didn't finish that pesky Geology degree (I hated field work), but I have spent a significant number of years both studying science and making my living in it. To show off some of that learning; It was the ancient Greeks that first postulated a round earth and even performed rough calculations as to the circumferance. Only the ignorant believed in a flat earth. Today, the ignorant believe in creationism. -legrue [edited some poor grammer] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 8:33:54 AM EDT
[#36]
The Bible does mention a creature that might be a herbivore dinosaur. It is called a "behemoth." Look up Job 40:15-19
Also, I believe that God created our minds and we as Christians should use them. It clearly states in the Bible that we are to love and serve the Lord with all of out heart, soul, mind, and strength. I think he put mind in there for a reason. I am a college educated person (graduated with a 3.96 GPA) and am very thankful for the inquisitive mind that God gave me. Whenever I see a theory or some scientific thing that doesn't see to jive with my beliefs I don't immediately jump to my faith to disprove it. I research. What my faith has told me has always held up in the end. I do believe in a literal Biblical creation (6 days, God spoke and it was there, young earth, etc...) All of my questions about creation have been answered by a group called the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) They are very well researched and back up everything they say with documentation. Their website is www.icr.org Check it out, there is a ton of information on there! |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 8:48:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: Why doesn't the Bible mention dinosaurs? They were cleary one of God's most awe inspiring creations.... There have been fossils found near "Biblical" sites. Good question, but I don't think it mentions giraffes either, and they are one of God's funniest creatures. I'm not sure it mentions ferrets or elk either. Giraffes are a specific animal. Dinosaurs were not exactly little creatures who hid in the woods somewhere. They were the dominant species of the planet, except for Man, who Creationists claim cohabitated with dinosaurs. Carbon Dating. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 9:32:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Why doesn't the Bible mention dinosaurs? They were cleary one of God's most awe inspiring creations.... There have been fossils found near "Biblical" sites. 1. Genesis DOES mention a "Time of Giants" 2. Who says dinosaurs were ever actually alive? God could have created fossils first, bypassing the need for live animals. besides, who would be there to enjoy them? 3. Carbon Dating? C-14 dating is one of the MOST ERRONEOUS forms of extracting the so- called "empirical" data that science revolves around. Carbon Dating, which measures radiological decay in organic/previously organic matter is age- checked against the rocks in which the matter was found. The rocks are checked for age by C-14 dating the previously organic materials found in them. It is a circle of lies. It's kinda like two criminals corraborating each others' lies. I've been collecting fossils for over 30 years and I've kept-up on the science for the same amount of time. One thing you will NEVER see is the discovery of a "missing link" that ties modern-day Homo Sapiens to ANY of the so-called ancestral primates. A lot of the Darwin folks like to mention that we share 98% of our DNA with monkeys. This may be true, but we also share 97% of our DNA with pigs. Did you know that the "first" purported dinosuars are thought to be warm-blooded? BTW...I've been on digs with MANY people and quite a few of them have been Christians. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 9:36:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Why doesn't the Bible mention dinosaurs? They were cleary one of God's most awe inspiring creations.... There have been fossils found near "Biblical" sites. 1. Genesis DOES mention a "Time of Giants" 2. Who says dinosaurs were ever actually alive? God could have created fossils first, bypassing the need for live animals. besides, who would be there to enjoy them? Wow, that must hurt to bend over so far backwards. I guess all that "stretching" really helps. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 9:44:49 AM EDT
[#40]
I'll stir the pot a bit more.
Why is it that so many Christians dislike Evolution? Here's why: Evolution has two kinds: microevolution (changes withing kinds) and macroevolution (one kind changing into another). MICROevolution is scientifically and biblically sound. Proponents of evolution take a leap in saying microevolution proves MACROevolution., which it does not do. The National Association of Biology Teachers (NABT) and the National Academny of Sciences defined evolution as follows: "The diversity of life on earth is the outcome of [b]evolution: an unsupervised, impersonal, unpredictable, and natural process[/b] of temporal descent with genetic modification that is affected by natural selection, chance, historical contingencies and changing environments." George Gaylord Simpson, one of the most famous evolutionists, stated evolution as such: "Man is the result of a [b]purposeless, and natural process that did not have him in mind.[/b]" The bolded words explain why Christians have a problem with Evolution. Darwins Theory of Evolution (aka the General Theory of Evolution) starts with the presupposition that God had nothing to do with it. It was unguided (God wasn't involved) and purposeless (we're an accident). This is a theory based on naturalism, which is NOT SCIENCE, it's religion. It has to be taken on faith, because it cannot be scientifically proven that it was all unsupervised or impersonal. I am definitely not a creationist who believes the earth is 6,000 years old, 6 24-hour periods, etc., but nor do I hold to Darwinian Evolution, since it is a philosophy that runs contrary to my own, and as a scientific theory has way too many holes and contradictions for me to latch onto it. I don't know enough about the Intelligent Design theory to really go for it, but it does seem to pose some very challenging questions. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 10:15:35 AM EDT
[#41]
For once no ones picking on the poor JEW... It doesn't matter what anyone believes. What matters is that you has a person has a Higher Power. A power greater than yourself.
Reason because yourself will let you down sometime in life. You turn to that Power Greater than you for consultation. Now the funny thing is that power is what is in you. So that Power might be a Spiritual Entity in you or a Entity outside you can't see to help you. We has humans with our own Belief systems in Government will always try to get what we want in our schools. Or the right to choose for a Woman what she should do with her own Body. CLONING...Maybe God or that Power Greater than ourselves decided it was time to show us how to do it. Maybe this is a part of the Grand Scheme of life. Christian, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Krishna, Moony, Church of Sincetology, ETC...They are our Belief Systems. Yes have your ideas trade your ideas but don't try to force them down others throat. That is why the world is the way it is. Keep Religion in school, make it part of Social Studies. Make it part of Science or whatever. Teach your children about Faith and what you think. They will make up their own mind in the end. If Parents took a stronger stance (I am not talking about people at this site or all people) They would be less worried about Religion or Prayer in school. Their Children would have that Basic footwork on being a loving and caring person for all people. Look out not for God but for the destruction of the belief in what YOU WANT TO believe...no matter what it may be. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 10:21:31 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: The thing is, creationism needs to be attacked because it's trying to establish itself as science while it has no good material fundation to support it. If people want to believe in Creationism as part of their faith, then fine. But if they're trying to establish it as a viable scientific theory, then it needs to be attacked relentlessly until it can no longer be attacked on empirical grounds. That's how science works, skepticism is the foundation of good science. Any good theory would have to be disprovable, and withstand the attacks of those trying to disprove it. For those trying to promote creationism, you have to decide, what do you want creationism to be. Faith or science, because if you want to establish it as a scientific theory then you have to get used to the attacks. Welcome to the world of western science. But don't attack evolution or I am going to go bazongas and call everyone names. |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 10:25:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Seems to me that your post proves that you haven't read the Bible, Legrue, so here you are claiming to know what scientific method is all about and at the same time disputing what is written in a book which you have never read. You might take a look at 2 Peter 3:8. BTW, I am quite familiar with science and am not afraid to accept what science can prove. But then again, 700 years ago the most brilliant minds agreed that the earth was flat and the center of the universe. DD, Given the assumptions you are making and the conclussions you are drawing, I would stay away from the creation vs evolution debates if I were you. Assumption 1) I have not read the bible. Hmmm, which translation? King James? Douey and Rheems? (forgive sp), RSV? NRSV? Jerusalem? New Jerusalem? NIV? (my wife has a 4 year bible school certificate, but that isn't me). Let's see, what else, former Sunday school teacher? Eight years in Catholic school system? (won't mention the other stuff, not relevent). Anyway, I think I made my point. No, I don't have a MinDiv (which I doubt you have), but I can find my way around a bible thank-you-very-much. Assumption 2) I don't know scientific method. No, I didn't finish that pesky Geology degree (I hated field work), but I have spent a significant number of years both studying science and making my living in it. To show off some of that learning; It was the ancient Greeks that first postulated a round earth and even performed rough calculations as to the circumferance. Only the ignorant believed in a flat earth. Today, the ignorant believe in creationism. -legrue [edited some poor grammer] Today, the ignorant slam the beliefs of others when they cannot prove their own beliefs as being factual. PROVE that God does not exist and I'll stay out of these debates. BTW, it's not "grammer", but "grammar". I too am educated, in Life Sciences, no less, and graduated Magna cum Laude. Be careful who you label as being "ignorant". |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 10:26:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Christian, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Krishna, Moony, Church of Sincetology, ETC...They are our Belief Systems. I always wanted to be a Moony :) [moon] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 10:28:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Look it's very simple.
Renounce your religion, your faith in God, and believe what I believe. Is that too much to ask? |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 10:35:42 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Look it's very simple. Renounce your religion, your faith in God, and believe what I believe. Is that too much to ask? Naahh...VERY reasonable. [:D] I bet you want all my guns too, right???? Cuz that could be a deal breaker. [:D] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 11:15:59 AM EDT
[#47]
IMO Learning what has occured thoughout the Earth’s history of inhabitants has little to do with Religion.......unless your Religion brings you to total literal interpretation of the word. I myself do not subscribe to either belief although; I would lend myself more towards evolutionist beliefs than creationist. I can still retain faith in God because I dismiss the conflicts with the written word to human propaganda.
Science and Religion have never constructively co-existed. It is important to separate the two if you wish to ever gain anything. After all, the Earth IS flat, isn’t it? [url]http://www.evolutionfairytale.com[/url] |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 11:35:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Today, the ignorant slam the beliefs of others when they cannot prove their own beliefs as being factual. PROVE that God does not exist and I'll stay out of these debates. Two issues. 1)I will happily slam creationism, because it is unreasonable in light of what is known by science, and is a back-door arguement to put a Christain God in public schools. (BTW, I never see the Hindu's (Hindi?) in America complain that their creation story isn't told in American schools.) This is different than slamming people over their personal, unprovable belief structure. 2)As I have repeatedly said, belief in God is independent from belief in creationism. Do I have to repeat this in my next response to you as well? BTW, it's not "grammer", but "grammar". oooo, you cut me bad!. Medic! (Throw me a freakin' bone. My minor was math, not English.) I too am educated, in Life Sciences, no less, and graduated Magna cum Laude. Be careful who you label as being "ignorant". Oh my, where do I start. Should I mention your use of poor and disconnected logic in your posts? Or perhaps I should start with your shown tendency to jump to unsupported conclussions about the poster? Perhaps I should start with the fact that the vast majority of the life science community believes in evolution theory. Perhaps I will just say that the shoe seems to fit in your case. -legrue |
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Posted: 6/18/2002 1:22:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Legrue, what you think of me concerns me not in the least. Think what you will...I couldn't POSSIBLY care less.
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Posted: 6/18/2002 5:50:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Legrue, what you think of me concerns me not in the least. Think what you will...I couldn't POSSIBLY care less. ROFLMAO! But did you notice, we both care enough to post! |
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