Eric,

First off, please tell me where I said that the country wasn't founded on the doctrines of christianity.  I can't seem to find it. You will not get a "list," you will only get my thoughts.

I am well aware that the founding fathers of this country were christians and your "organic" documentation was very good.  I know that from the beginning this was generally a christian nation.  However, this country was also founded on the ideas of freedom of religion.  I don't think I need to quote the 1st Amendment, do I?

But times have changed my friend.  I guess the proper thing to say is that America doesn't run on christian values ANYMORE.  Christian values may fit your lifestyle, but they certainly don't fit mine.  Does that make me wrong?  NO.  Does that make you wrong, NO.

I am not an idiot Eric, as you probably think, I know that this country has very deep christian roots.  But things change, and this is a much different country than it was 200+ years ago.  Just look at the 9th Circuit's ruling about the Pledge of Allegiance.  



Save your didactic tone for someone else. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.  However, anytime someone appears to lean against christianity, you always pull out some bible quote to "prove" they are wrong.  You don't need to bother quoting the bible in responses to me anymore because those quotes will automatically lose credibility in my mind.  I am going to be a tough sell, and the fiction bible is not going to help.

There is NOTHING wrong with your beliefs, however, you attempt to use your beliefs to belittle those of others.  God this, god that, etc.  At least I infer that you feel that any other lifestyle is inferior to yours, and that to me is wrong.  

Just because christianity may have stronger roots than others in this great land, THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION.

I was raised christian, and no longer practice.  Please, don't try and save me.

I'll save my breath, [b]MisterGreens[/b], but when it comes time for this nation to decide whether to permit homosexual marriage, try and think of some reason to prohibit it that doesn't involve some claim of Judeo-Christian beliefs!

Or do you think it would be 'OK'?

See what I mean?

Oh, the 3-Judge panel will be overturned, and the Pledge reinstated in the 11th Circus.

Wanna bet some hard currency on it?

Eric The(HonestToGod)Hun[>]:)]

I'll save my breath also.  Again, I am not an idiot, I am sure it will be overturned.  However, it is a sign of the waning power of christianity, as with all religions in this country.

Yes, it would be ok, actually.  What does it bother you if two gay people have a certificate that says they are married?  Just MYOB and it will be all good.

Cause all the courts in the land can say they are married and they are no more married than you and I!

But that you think like this is a certain sign that our country is on a downward slide!

You like the right to keep and bear arms?

Well the folks who believe in homosexual marriage don't. And while their perversion is all right for you, your 'perversion' is in no manner acceotable to them!

So you support them, they will surely not support you!

Yhe Christian Right, as you call them, would support you!

Ain't that a gas!

You don't even know who your allies are in the biggest fight that our country faces.

Eric The(Learn!)Hun[>]:)]

Tolerant of what? Tolerant of another's religious beliefs? Tolerant of homosexuals who desire to be camp counselors in the YMCA? Please explain.

Post from MisterGreens -

Because this is our country that you're talking about! This is the land of the free and home of the brave. Not the land of the queer and home of the abnormal.

What [u]you[/u] are suggesting is that when our government begins to look and act like the City Council of San Francisco, when your typical Fourth of July Parade begins to resemble a 'Gay Rights' Parade from that same city, with a transexual 'Lady Liberty' getting a 'Tom Jefferson' from the rear on a float, when there is no longer any semblance left of what this nation looked like at our founding, we should [u]not[/u] complain, or be worried about the state of the nation!

Son, where in the Hell did you get such ideas?

And when that becomes the state of affairs in this country, just how do you think those fudge packers are gonna feel about [u]your[/u] right to keep and bear arms?

Huh? How does the 'free and open' city of San Francisco feel about private gun ownership?

That's the single 'vice' of which they would never approve!

But thank God, if the fudge packers are gonna be the ones coming after my guns, I feel better already! [:D]

[b]Queers[/b] should [b]never[/b] be allowed to work around children, ever!

'As long as they aren't brainwashing your kids' - don't make me laugh! That's like saying 'as long as Sarah Brady and Hangun Control Inc., are not brainwashing your kids...'!

You ideas are stupid, [b]MisterGreens[/b], and your opinions are ridiculous.

You may be a good guy, but your politics SUCK!

Eric The(You'reNotReproducingAreYou?)Hun[>]:)]

You would accept having a homosexual serve as your boy's PE teacher or camp counselor? So, it would be okay for the homosexual camp counselor to take your boys on long camping trips, out in the middle of nowhere, where they may bath in a river together? You're telling me I have to explain this to you?

This is the kind of tolerance I'm talking about. It's plain stupidity.

Eric, regardless of the opinion you may poses in regard to whatever this nations founding principles are, the ACTUAL framing documents are what define this nation...not the Magna Carta nor any like-documents before it.  That is why this nation is so great.  It took principles applied to bodies of people in those writings and gave them to everyone.  Not everyone except whomever doesn't 'fit' in your religious model.

You are entitled to the opinion that -'insert despised group of choice here'- are the scourge of the face of the earth and should be purged (hyperbole]. But they have natural rights are protected under the base law of this country and will be treated equally under the law.  There needn't be any special law to protect anyone more than another... and I certainly do feel that some have been made.

But if you have any belief.. dare I say faith... in the Constitution of this country you simply can not hold separate standards about who can go or be where on public lands.

Oh, and here are some quotes to go along with ETH's mega-dic-quote:


1. "The government of the United States is in no sense
founded on the Christian religion." - President George
Washington in the treaty of Tripoli

2. "This would be the best of all possible worlds if
there were no religion in it." - President John Adams
in the Jefferson-Adams letters

3. "I do not find in Christianity one redeeming
feature. It has made on half the world fools, the
other half hypocrites." - President Thomas Jefferson

4. "A just government has no need for the clergy or
the church. The fruits of Christianity are pride and
indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in
the laity; and in both clergy and laity, superstition,
bigotry and persecution." - President James Madison,
author of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution,
from his address before the General Assembly of Virginia 1785

5. "The Bible is not my book...nor Christianity my
religion." - President Abraham Lincolnto the
Washington DC clergy

6. "The first clergy was the first sly rogue who encountered the first fool." - Voltaire

7. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Mark Twain

8. "The Bible has some poetry...some blood drenched history...a wealth of obsenity...and upwards of a hundred thousand lies." - Mark Twain

9. "Civilization will thrive when the last stone from the last church falls on the head of the last priest." - Emile Zola

10. "Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." - Martin Luther

11. "I pray with all of my heart for the day when we don't have any more public schools. The churches will have taken them all over and we Christians will be running them." - Jerry Falwell

12. "The source and cause of fights and malignancy, persecution, wars and all evil is religion. Let it once enter our public schools and they would be destroyed." - Supreme Court of Wisconsin, Weiss vs.
District Board, March 18, 1890

13. "Buried deep in the heart of every Christian evangelist lies the wreck of a con man." - H.L. Mencken (Billy Graham, son Franklin and Robert Schulle

14. "Faith: belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge." - Ambrose Bierce

15. "There is one commandment I have never broken...I can assure you...I have never coveted my neighbor's wife." - Ruth Gordon, actress (The Ten Commandments
are a cultic code written by Hebrew men for Hebrew men.)

16. "Are women human?" A subject debated for two weeks at the Council of Macon in Lyons, France, 584 AD. Debated by 63 Catholic bishops. When the vote was taken, women were declared "human" by only one vote. The Catholic church is still to this day debating this question, in 2001, as are Southern Baptists and many fundamentalist
churches.

17. "It is fear...that first brought God and Gods into the world." - Petronius (And so it still is to this day, January 13, 2001.)

For those who admire the brilliance of that American giant of letters and philosophy, Ralph Waldo Emerson,
you may want this one to round out your library:
"Christian creeds and doctrines are a disease of the intellect."

Why?  Because you can't have a world government under the United Nations without a broken and/or supporting United States.  I'm sure that there are other reasons we're not going to do anything about in time.

For me its these so called Figureheads of Christianity that turn me off. When i see these
people such as Jerry(Christianity is the only real religion)Falwell every night on some talk show spouting some closeminded crap,or Benny Hinn smacking someone in the forehead and curing
some disease. I saw an interview were he said God told him to build some shrine or church or something and he raised millions of dollars from his congregation, he was asked why he never built it, well God told me use the money on something else. Its all about the dinero, these guys are all full of crap. Bakker & Swaggart and 1/2 priests in this country cant keep their pecker's in their pants. Its amazing how these guys believe u can do hainous acts against ur fellow man as long as u accept Christ as ur saviour ur going to that restricted country club in the sky .

That is classic by the way, Eric.

You are one intolerant motherfvcker, you know that?

I don't condone homosexuality but I am very tolerant.  Of course I feel a man is meant to be with a woman but I also feel that people should be able to do as they please, and shouldn't be discriminated against.  I do not like when homos try to shove it in your face, that is different.

But who is to say that YOUR lifestyle is the right one?  Oh wait, the bible says so.  I forgot.

You are no better than someone because you are straight and they are not.  I hope, I REALLY REALLY HOPE that your daughter turns out to be a lesbian.  If she did, how would you feel then?  Would you kick her out of the house (I don't know how old she is), would you not want her within 100 feet of someone else's children?  You have tunnel vision and its time to change.  Mind you own business, and let the homos mind theirs.