Which of the following was the better president...and who would you want leading America today? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which of the following was the better president...and who would you want leading America today? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 3/18/2006 2:13:43 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Easy, Teddy.

Teddy was a tyrant.
Washington, easy.

That's fairly inane. Washington had the Whiskey Rebellion, but Teddy was a tyrant? Nonsense.

Posted: 3/18/2006 2:14:35 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Teddy. He believed in the GREATNESS of america around the world, and wasn't afraid to do what was necessary for us to be the best

That's the problem.
You believe in that, that's a betrayal of what the Founders wanted.
No entangling foreign affairs.

The Founders wanted that huh? Good thing France didn't believe it or we wouldn't be a country.

Posted: 3/18/2006 2:51:38 PM EDT

[#3]

I cast my vote for the Rough Rider.

Posted: 3/18/2006 3:12:20 PM EDT

[#4]

Teddy: he was pro gun and liked to use suppresors.

Ronald Regan: He was pro gun sort of... he did sign the machine gun ban in '86.

We need another man like Jefferson.

Posted: 3/18/2006 3:17:21 PM EDT

[#5]

I think that right now we need a TR president for times of war like now. But after we kick their asses and come back home, I'd vote for GW.

Posted: 3/18/2006 5:23:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Washington was a great man, but it's hard to judge his personal presidential abilities as he was surrounded by the greatest Americans who ever lived, all working together as one despite their political differences.
Jefferson was an incredibly brilliant philosopher but was very divisive and not as brilliant a statesman.
Lincoln had the backbone to do what he believed had to be done, despite the consequences, but he was lacking in wisdom to some extent.
I would pick Teddy Roosevelt. Like Washington, he was a man who didn't flinch from putting himself in harm's way---he was a man's man, a man of action. Like Jefferson, he was a far-sighted visionary who could look into the future of America. Like Lincoln, he didn't flinch from the hard task despite the consequences. He fused all of their best traits into an incredible personality that was akin to Ronald Reagan's.
The only thing keeping TR from being universally acknowledged as the greatest president ever was the lack of a major crisis such as WWII or the Civil War for him to have handled.

Excellent post, but the best quote is in blue. So true, Rik.

Posted: 3/18/2006 5:32:02 PM EDT

[#7]

Thomas Jefferson without a doubt - his mind crafted the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution.

Posted: 3/18/2006 5:33:53 PM EDT

[#8]

One of my many favorite Jefferson quotes:

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:23:56 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Thomas Jefferson without a doubt - his mind crafted the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution.

I thought James Madison is regarded as the "Father of the US Constitution".

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:41:39 PM EDT

[#10]

After Washington, I'd vote for Silent Cal. He didn't fuck anything up with the economy, didn't expand federal powers, and he didn't get us into any wars. That's what I want from a President.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:52:52 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Thomas Jefferson without a doubt - his mind crafted the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution.

I thought James Madison is regarded as the "Father of the US Constitution".

Yup. Jefferson wasn't even a delegate at the convention. He was off galavanting in France or something.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:57:38 PM EDT

[#12]

Teddy Roosevelt.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:14:21 PM EDT

[#13]

.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:17:44 PM EDT

[#14]

TR!

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:20:02 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Thomas Jefferson without a doubt - his mind crafted the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution.

Sorry Paul, but Tommy was catting it up in France during the Constitutional debates.

If I had to choose from the list, it would probably be TJ. Since we're looking at the hypothetical of "who I'd want to lead us today", my answer would be Patrick Henry.

ETA: Looks like I sould have read a bit further. Mcallan and JTT beat me to it.

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:11:09 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Since we're looking at the hypothetical of "who I'd want to lead us today", my answer would be Patrick Henry.

I have to say that when I read Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death" speech... well... that is powerful stuff. I'm always awed by the eloquence and passion that the Founders had.

I chose Thomas Jefferson in the poll, but I, as some of you, really wish that Ronald Reagan was on that list. He may not have been greater than all of those in the poll, but I truly believe he was the greatest president in my lifetime.

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:42:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Teddy Roosevelt

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:50:08 PM EDT

[#18]

It doesn't just matter that we have a good pres. we need a good congress also. hell probably a great congress can be better than a crap pres.

Posted: 3/19/2006 3:27:38 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Teddy would be a good choice, but if he was pres again prepare to spend a trillion dollars annually on defense. Cause it would be open season worldwide. That dude didn't fuck around!!

Hell yeah.

Posted: 3/19/2006 4:12:29 AM EDT

[#20]

Teddy but if Reagan was on the list it would be Reagan and Teddy as VP

Posted: 3/19/2006 4:55:16 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thomas Jefferson without a doubt - his mind crafted the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution.

I thought James Madison is regarded as the "Father of the US Constitution".

Yup. Jefferson wasn't even a delegate at the convention. He was off galavanting in France or something.

Wasn't Jefferson responsible at least in part for the Bill of Rights?

Posted: 3/19/2006 4:58:08 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Washington because he would put the country back to the way it should be.

I however would like a write in for Reagan.

I voted for Teddy but when i read the topic ?? and hadnt seen your choices i said to myself definately Reagan.

Posted: 3/19/2006 5:35:20 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Wasn't Jefferson responsible at least in part for the Bill of Rights?

I'm pretty sure that's the case.

Posted: 3/19/2006 5:37:22 AM EDT

[#24]

Hmmm... as a military cadet for an expeditionary branch, I gotta go with self-interest and say "Teddy".

I'm not liking my employment outlook if the Dems take control just as I get out of college,..

Posted: 3/19/2006 6:51:42 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Wasn't Jefferson responsible at least in part for the Bill of Rights?

I'm pretty sure that's the case.

That would have been the NY and VA Delegations. Patrick Henry and the Anti-Federalists had a huge hand in forcing it on the convention in oredr to get all the States to ratify.

Despite the misinformation bandied about, TJ had virtually nothing to do with the Constitution.

Posted: 3/19/2006 7:12:05 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thomas Jefferson without a doubt - his mind crafted the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution.

I thought James Madison is regarded as the "Father of the US Constitution".

Yup. Jefferson wasn't even a delegate at the convention. He was off galavanting in France or something.

Wasn't Jefferson responsible at least in part for the Bill of Rights?

Jefferson was partly responsible for the BOR but his contributions to the US Constitution were little & were via correspondance with Madison IIRC.

Some good stuff on him & the BOR here.

Posted: 3/19/2006 9:56:17 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Jefferson was partly responsible for the BOR but his contributions to the US Constitution were little & were via correspondance with Madison IIRC.

Some good stuff on him & the BOR here.

AFAIK, even Jefferson's DOI drew heavily from the 76 VA Declaration of Rights penned by Mason. I would understand your statement in red if he were part of the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debates, or part of the Virginia Ratifying Convention, but IIRC; other than a few letters offering advice to Madison he wasn't involved at all.

Are you stating that because Jefferson recognized a need for various positive statements of rights and communicated such to Madison, that makes him "partly responsible" for the BOR?

</hijack>

Posted: 3/19/2006 10:13:20 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
<hijack>

Quoted:
Jefferson was partly responsible for the BOR but his contributions to the US Constitution were little & were via correspondance with Madison IIRC.

Some good stuff on him & the BOR here.

AFAIK, even Jefferson's DOI drew heavily from the 76 VA Declaration of Rights penned by Mason. I would understand your statement in red if he were part of the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debates, or part of the Virginia Ratifying Convention, but IIRC; other than a few letters offering advice to Madison he wasn't involved at all.

Are you stating that because Jefferson recognized a need for various positive statements of rights and communicated such to Madison, that makes him "partly responsible" for the BOR?

</hijack>

Jefferson had a tremendous influence on the principle of "religious freedom" underscored in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.

Thomas Jefferson's "Bill For Establishing Religious Freedom" written for the state of Virginia was, in his own opinion, one of his greatest works and contributions to America.

Posted: 3/19/2006 11:50:09 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Jefferson had a tremendous influence on the principle of "religious freedom" underscored in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.

Thomas Jefferson's "Bill For Establishing Religious Freedom" written for the state of Virginia was, in his own opinion, one of his greatest works and contributions to America.

I don't think anyone is debating the fact that his ideology was very similar to many of the other FF's. I just think it's disingenuous to ascribe authorship of anything in the Constitution or BOR to him either directly or even indirectly.

Sometimes it seems that the libs want to make him out to be a slave-raping aristocrat, while conservatives wish to pump up his resume' without basis in historical fact. The man's contributions were great without embellishment. Why can't we leave it at that?

ETA: The origins of Religious Freedom in the colonies date to the founding of Rhode Island in 1636. You might as well give equal credit to Roger Williams for the First Amendment. That is, unless you think the "separation of Church & State" is to be found somewhere in the BOR.

Posted: 3/19/2006 11:53:40 AM EDT

[#30]

TR right now would scare the HELL out of me. No thanks.

Posted: 3/19/2006 11:57:46 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

I don't think anyone is debating the fact that his ideology was very similar to many of the other FF's. I just think it's disingenuous to ascribe authorship of anything in the Constitution or BOR to him either directly or even indirectly.

I said "Jefferson was partly responsible for the BOR" ,not that it was all his doing. TJ lobbyed for a BOR to be included in that US Constitution as did several prominent men of his day. His POV was respected and helped the movement gather momentum, so ipso facto he was partly responsible. This does not mean that TJ gets 87% of the credit for it, only that he played a part.

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:08:05 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
TR right now would scare the HELL out of me.

Then maybe you deserve to be scared.

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:15:32 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Jefferson had a tremendous influence on the principle of "religious freedom" underscored in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.

Thomas Jefferson's "Bill For Establishing Religious Freedom" written for the state of Virginia was, in his own opinion, one of his greatest works and contributions to America.
I don't think anyone is debating the fact that his ideology was very similar to many of the other FF's. I just think it's disingenuous to ascribe authorship of anything in the Constitution or BOR to him either directly or even indirectly.

The establishment clause of the 1st Amendment was heavily influenced by Jefferson's Religious Freedom Bill he wrote for Virginia, though not solely based on it.

I never ascribed authorship to anything in the Consitution to Jefferson, if you believe I did, you misread my post.

My original point I made earlier was that Jefferson had virtually no role in the drafting of the US Constitution (it was mainly James Madison's direction) but that's not to say Jefferson had NO role in the direction of 1st Amendment. He most certainly did via his Religious Freedom Bill he wrote for Virginia.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which of the following was the better president...and who would you want leading America today? (Page 2 of 2)

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