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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:34:59 PM EDT
[#1]
It's east to call people stupid...not so easy to see the truth I guess. I just mentioned several fallen civilizations that fell after the acceptance of homosexuality. I'm not a gay hater...just a person who knows history has repeated itself since the creation af man.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:35:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Who cares, as long as it is not a parent (that crosses the line for me). I know some gays and they are all good people. One of the guys I work with (in another office) is gay/bi. Dude is cool and does not give a fuck what people think about him. Also, he is not all up in everyone's face with it either. I've got alot of respect for him because of these reasons. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:35:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Not an issue. Family is family.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:36:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I guess if I had a family member that was copraphagic, I would ask them to seek psychiatric help. But since the DSM-IV said homosexuality is no longer a disease, I would have to find another psychaitrist who still believes its a DISEASE. Yes, a DISEASE. Homosexual brains are MALFUNCTIONING and need treatment.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:39:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Never had to deal with it in my family, but my best friends mother in law came out about 7 years ago. Totally predictable... She is cool as hell. Most of you hard heads would like her as she spent (retired now) much of her career on the Aegis Destroyer system and can talk shop all day long.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:48:29 PM EDT
[#6]
You are so far off base on this it's not even funny. They fell because of the past. Since they were all in the past, and they all fell, it's obvious and logical that it was "the past" that did it. So there! 
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:48:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Do they shoot? Are they armed citizens? If so who cares?
The only reason to fear gays is if you have issues with yourself. Allies are allies. Pro 2nd gays are cool as shit. If we want to keep going we need to INCLUDE them, not chase them off. Look up "Pink Pistols" when you have a chance. Midwinter Strait and a proud PFLAG supporter |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:49:19 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm not calling you "stupid" per se, I just think the argument is VERY unbelievable, and thus find it funny that you provide no support whatsoever, but tell others to find the supposed evidence (even though you supposedly know where it is) (A) You mentioned plenty of fact that could be supported. If you are aware of them (and you are taking the time for multiple posts in this thread) it would seem like LITTLE effort on your part to provide references and citations to those facts. (B) You made an argument that "EVERY civilization that has fallen, did so after the acceptance of homosexuality" and said that the facts are out there. (I know it's not an exact quote, but I felt the need to correct your grammar  )Providing a couple of anecdotal examples does NOTHING to support your argument, since you made it for EVERY civilization that has fallen. Therefore, please provide the citations for the factual evidence for the following civilizations: Aztec Egyptian old Kingdom Assyrian Easter Island Anasazi Mayan Pict Viking ... or admit that you pretty much made up the claim. Either one is good.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:55:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Yeah, but it's still painful! 
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:55:52 PM EDT
[#10]
It's hard to say what caused the fall of civilizations that there is no or very little documented history of. Howerever the ones that are well documented are the ones that can be plainly found that they fell soon after accepting gay lifestyles. As an educated guess on the ones with no historical proof..like I said history repeats itself...you don't need to
 me to get a response. just ask if you need help.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:58:55 PM EDT
[#11]
I wouldn't care.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 7:59:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Who flippin' cares how many civilizations failed yada yada yada. Its a DISEASE of behavior contrary to instinct.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:00:35 PM EDT
[#13]
It's "the past" I tell you, "the past"! Besides, no one had a "lifestyle" until at least the 1980's, so your arguement fails right there... You do remember Member's Only jackets, hot tubs, discos, and sockless shoes. If your memory needs refreshing, just re-run a couple seasons of Miami Vice. You're welcome. 
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:01:10 PM EDT
[#14]
So while you are now admitting that you have NO IDEA if "every" civilization failed after acception homsexuality (which was your original claim), you are saying that the ones that are well documented do demonstrate this. Can you please list them? (since we don't know what you mean by "well documented")? How many are there? Two? Three? Just curious how many well-documented examples of failed civilizations that you have read about that allow you to conclude that "every" civilization will fail after acepting homosexuality. Also curious to see what constitutes your "facts". I'm dying to see your sources and citations for legitimate historians who have concluded that acceptance of homsexuality led to the fall of civilizations. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:01:35 PM EDT
[#15]
You believe that the fall of entire civilizations can be distilled into one issue? One part of their society, likely a minor part, statistically, almost instantly caused their downfall? There were no other extenuating circumstances that might have played a role? History is seldom simple enough to make such broad generalizations about the cause of major events. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:03:25 PM EDT
[#16]
+1. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:07:03 PM EDT
[#17]
The reason I said look em up yourself is because I didn't want to get into a long drawn out debate over a subject which frankly sickens me. I think America is unfortunatley in the falling stages in part due to its acceptance of gay lifestyles. Do some research on your own if you really need to know. Like I said I don't hate gay people, it's the sin that I hate. I know several people who were gay until they were saved by the blood. All people have hope until the day they die, so I hate no one. One of the greates teachers of the Gospel used to kill Christians.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:07:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Shoot,
Shovel, Sh..... Just kidding. I wouldnt care as long as I didnt have to be around it or deal with. CH |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:08:22 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:10:35 PM EDT
[#20]
I never said civilizations fell only due to that...I said they fell after acceptance of gay lifesyles. There are always other things that go along with a morally currupt society.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:11:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Keep tryin' there, buddy. Somehow no one's taking the bait. The APA gave up on classifying homosexuality as a disease because there was NO EVIDENCE for it. Neurochemistry, neurobiology, MRI scans, PET scans, SPECT scans, brain anatomy studies- nothing. Zero, nada, zilch. Without a "mechanism of illness", there is no disease, last I heard. Just what do you think is "broken" that causes the biological processes leading to a homosexual sexual identity? There are plenty of behaviors still considered aberrent, yet homosexuality per se ain't one of them. Must be because all those psychiatrists are a bunch of pussies, or something. They are, however, working on classifying a variant of anti-social personality disorder that includes obsessions with violence, firearms and other weapons. How many guns do you have again? 
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:13:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Not a disease, but a choice. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:14:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Which? The identity or the behavior? |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:16:09 PM EDT
[#24]
I agree it is a choice....I can see people now standing before the judgment seat of Christ saying "I'm sorry God but my sins were not my fault, I had a disease."
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:16:56 PM EDT
[#25]
pray to god to nuke the planet and start over...
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:17:11 PM EDT
[#26]
The behavior certainly. Cant say about the identity |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:20:35 PM EDT
[#27]
SMACK!
"You're what?" "I'm gay" SMACK! "I'm sorry?" "I'm gay!" SMACK! "Come again?" "I'm straight" "Ah, that's what I thought you said" Something like that.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:20:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Don't worry, all of civilization will collapse soon enough, and we'll have to start over anyway. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:20:43 PM EDT
[#29]
At a certain level it is all semantic. I believe that sexual orientation is reasonably hard-wired (resulting from things like prenatal hormone levels, possibly genetic traits in combination, etc.) occuring either through genetic, prenatal effects, or very early environmental effects - so that a person has little control over what they find sexually attractive. I know that I find women EXTREMLY arousing, and want to have sex with them all day - I certainly couldn't "choose" to be attracted to men. Gay men (for example) are obviously sexually attracted to other men, and not to women. I don;t think there is much "choice" involved there. However, I agree with you that people invariably have to "choose" whether to live out their sexual preference or not. As a guy, it's a pretty easy "choice" for me to live out my sexual attraction to women, but I guess you could call it a choice. By the same token, gay people are TECHNCIALLY choosing to live that lifestyle. As an aside, while it may SOUND offensive, I do think that TECHNICALLY, it is accurate to call homsexuality a mental defect of some kind. Perhaps a better label exists? After all, the purpose of a biological species is to reproduce. Since homsexuals generally do not seem to have the urge to pass on their DNA through procreation, there clearly is something "wrong" (again, a loaded word) with them, in terms of deviation from the original blueprint, so to speak. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:21:38 PM EDT
[#30]
This isn't the first time this thread has run through the mill. Midwinter, you hit the nail on the head. Isn't this what ARFCOM is all about? The RKBA! We DO need ALL the help we can get. I really don't give a damn about a person's adult sex life. Ain't none a my business! |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:22:10 PM EDT
[#31]
It would be life as normal; I already think my sister is a lesbian. Unless it was my brother. I'd be forced to glove up and give him one good, stout ass-kicking. It wouldn't change the fact that he is my brother and someone I give a damn about...hell, I would even stitch him up afterward.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:24:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Hate to bust YOUR bubble but those imaging modalities had not been in the clinical sector when homosexuality was normalized. Functional brain imaging has only been around for 14 years. There ARE neurochemical and physiological differences between hetero and homosexuals. The APA gave up on treatment because they had no definition of the disease in the biochemical sense. Their "treatments" didn't work so it couldn't be a disease. Tripe. If that were the case, stomach ulcers would have been removed as a disease, until the discovery of the Helicobacter pylori link. Now you delve into the nature vs nurture. How about seperated identical twins? That is conclusively nurture. In the physical sense, male homosexuals derive pleasure from among other acts, anal penetration simulating vaginal intercourse. And female homosexuals utilize simulated phalic objects. Its like the vegetarian who likes to eat fake meat. To thy ownself be true. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:25:39 PM EDT
[#33]
That's awful nice of you! You're my kind of guy! Why, when we get off work tomorrow, how's about you coming over to my place and I'll let you fuck my sister! |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:26:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Hate to bust YOUR bubble but those imaging modalities had not been in the clinical sector when homosexuality was normalized. Functional brain imaging has only been around for 14 years. There ARE neurochemical and physiological differences between hetero and homosexuals. Now you delve into the nature vs nurture. How about seperated identical twins? That is conclusively nurture. In the physical sense, male homosexuals derive pleasure from among other acts, anal penetration simulating vaginal intercourse. And female homosexuals utilize simulated phalic objects. Its like the vegetarian who likes to eat fake meat. To thy ownself be true. and you guys thought I was full of crap?....? |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:27:36 PM EDT
[#35]
There are some instances of identical twins that were raised separate and have incredibly similar lives, preferences, jobs, etc. I remember a few of the cases being outright bizarre in the similarities. I can't remember the cites - but trust me, the facts are out there ... sorry, couldn't resist. reference to another thread tonight.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:31:04 PM EDT
[#36]
I'd tend to agree with you DK. Well put. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:31:22 PM EDT
[#37]
I agree completely. I would also add that if someone really had a chance to choose their sexual orientation, without influence from any biological or psychological factors, why would they choose to be homosexual? Society doesn't seem to make things all that easy for them, unless you live in certain areas. There is a stigma attached, despite some assertions here that society has embraced it. Almost all outside influences in the media, entertainment and literature portray normal sexual unions. Homosexual portrayals are a tiny percent of this, but they receive more attention because of their controversial nature. Because of all this, I tend to think there is some psychological aspect here that is beyond the person's control. They may choose to face the adversities associated with acting on it, or they may not. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:34:05 PM EDT
[#38]
My brother is gay. He's one of the kindest people you could ever hope to meet. I'm not into what he's into, but he's still my brother, and he always will be. Something like that won't make me love him any less or treat him any differently.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:34:55 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm a proud member of the Dutch Perfessor's fan club.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:38:43 PM EDT
[#40]
 i have a 1st cousin i half-figure to be gay. nice guy. i don't much give a fuck. but i just don't want to hear about it. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:40:02 PM EDT
[#41]
wouldn't change a thing to me.
 Chris |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:40:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Men(Ladies?): Its nice to read that a lot of Members believe that, "Its none of my business", and "Family is Family", and in general would accept a relative who is Gay and it would make no difference. But then you get the Members who would, " Give him a stout ass whipping", who think, " its a mental illness", its immoral, WTF; are you guys kidding? If you claim to be Christian, how can you judge someone else? What hypocrasy! For years, I fought with my brother; I was pissed cause I knew he was Gay, but he did not tell anyone. I was convinced that he was going to Hell and would ruin my eternal bliss in Heaven(I can't be happy without the whole family being there)because he was a Damn fag....what an ass I was. No one here on this earth can judge another. Walk a mile in his shoes; and to think that being Gay is a choice; I see how tough it is for my brother sometimes. The Gay lifestyle is not easy; better to be straight. But I Love my brother and years ago we buried the hatchet and he's one of my best friends. The problem with Gay-basher's is the same problem with any biggot, ignorance. You don't know a Gay person(believe me, you ALL DO)and so you formulate false opinions based on even more falacious assumptions. And the Poster that said acceptance of Gays lead to the downfall of great societies; what History are you referring to? Just my 2-cents, and experience.
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:41:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Like DK said above, it's not EITHER nature OR nurture, but might possibly be some mix of both... but you can be quite sure that the vast majority of homosexuals don't choose to be gay or straight anymore than you can choose your sexual orientation. While sexual preferences are obviously very deeply seated, choices about sexual behavior are just as obviously more under one's control. However, people of all sorts choose a vast number of different ways to have sex, and all the things you mention are quite, um, *popular* among straight people. All that says is how creative human beings are at satsifying their urges. There is nothing homosexuals do that heterosexuals don't do, within very basic limitations of anatomy. Yes, it's true there are studies showing some brain differences, but it is so early in the study of this stuff that it's impossible to say whether the observed differences are causes, effects, or entirely irrelevant to the issue of sexual identity. We can't even clearly elucidate the differences between men and women in any meaningful way. If you'd like, cite the strongest study you've got for brain differences between hetero and homosexuals, and I can guarantee you there is NO way to make a clear statement about the causal relationship for those changes and sexual identity, let alone sexual behavior. So, once again, what's broken in the homosexual brain that would allow us to consider this a disease? |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:47:19 PM EDT
[#44]
next we will accept murder as just a problem with peoples behaviour. I had no choice, I was born to murder people. It's in my genes. Oh wait we already started doing that. What a morally currupt society we have become. Man I didn't realize there were so many closet liberals here. Wow it's a coming out party!
I'm not trying to solve the world's problems, but I do have the answer to them!
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:51:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Well I'll be looking forward to meeting you at Bulletfest this year!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:52:58 PM EDT
[#46]
So by your rationale, we should expand our prisons to house homosexuals? And that way, we can right our society and stop being morally corrupt? |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:53:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Just on this point you added after my response- First, H pilori is not the only cause of ulcers, and even when it's positively identified in a particular individual, effective treatment of the bacteria doesn't always remove the ulcer. Second, consider this: there has been NO reliable successful psychological or pharmacological "treatment" of homosexuality. Period. Not before the APA removed it as a disorder, nor afterwards. People have continued to try, and nothing has worked. That would *strongly* suggest it's not a psychiatric disease, otherwise *something* would work. Again, more reason to believe the APA was right. Personally, I think it's kind of like being short, or blond. That's not a disease, is it? |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:53:18 PM EDT
[#48]
 Chris |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:53:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Acceptance? 
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:55:24 PM EDT
[#50]
That's what my brother thought too. Whats worse than having a gay brother? Having gay brother slap you around like a two dollar bitch.......in front of all your friends. 
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