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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:01:21 AM EDT
[#1]
I will more than likely die before I retire.
At 31 I am already dead inside... |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:04:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will more than likely die before I retire. At 31 I am already dead inside... 
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:06:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shit, you make me feel old considering I retired last year at 39.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And here I am planning early retirement at 35.  Shit, you make me feel old considering I retired last year at 39. Its just a plan right now. At 23 I still have 2 years left as a poor college student (at least I have no debt), but by 25 I'm looking at having an investment nest egg of around $100k earning 9% to play with. I plan on saving like crazy for the next decade. After ten years in the industry making around $90k I should have enough to retire comfortably to my standards. I guess saying "retirement" is dishonest because I'll probably still have to work, but I'll be doing what I want to do. Just give me a farmhouse on 100 acres that's paid for and I'll be set. Do some welding/machining work on the side to cover taxes and other expenses, maybe open a landscaping business or buy a couple freightliners for a trucking company...It's just a dream, but I like dreaming big! |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:07:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh well. I enjoy being retired. For "middle class" people you pretty much have to be debt free before retiring to make it work. Taking on a new 30 year mortgage when you're 45 years old is not the way to go about it.  I just did that and it will be paid off in 15 years. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:10:05 AM EDT
[#5]
I'll be forced to work till death. I don't make enough to put a nest egg away. And I get paid well above the "norm" in my area. The "norm" just happens to be minimum wage.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:12:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Neither will the working poor like myself
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:13:09 AM EDT
[#7]
My 2010 truck will be paid off in January.............it only has 17K on it, and will probably be with me for a long time.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9 more years to go. Debt Free. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:14:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Neither will the working poor like myself
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:17:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You see it in threads here. People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc... People live for the here and now. True dat!
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:28:02 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:30:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Yep. Sounds about like my life.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:39:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I give it a 50% chance that people who lived within their means and saved for retirement will get their 401ks, IRAs seized and redistributed to make things more 'fair' Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance. Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed. You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:47:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance. Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed. You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. They're already in the process of seizing personal retirement accounts with all the endless money pumping that the Fed is doing. Your balance may still be intact...but it isn't going to be worth squat when the time comes to retire. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:51:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You see it in threads here. People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc... People live for the here and now. $75,000 guns.. ya its fucking nuts.. Im going to do like my dad did, retire to a gunsmithing job. I figure I can do that and make bullets till I die. Not because I have to but because I want to.. Got to keep busy, and the brain active.. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 6:58:29 AM EDT
[#15]
I’m 36. Both the wife and I have earning potential into the low 1% range and have done great with our assets. I drive my paid for 06 Chevy duramax so I can afford to buy gun stuff and build my 67 & 69 Camaros. I don’t plan to ever retire. I will own a race shop/hot rod shop/gun shop/real estate brokerage. A body in motion stays in motion.
Poor, ignorant, lazy, selfish people made foolish choices and will continue to do so in the future. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:08:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As opposed to suffering when you're young and can enjoy life to the fullest so that you can have a tiny bit of extra comfort when you're old enough that you won't appreciate it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You see it in threads here. People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc... People live for the here and now. As opposed to suffering when you're young and can enjoy life to the fullest so that you can have a tiny bit of extra comfort when you're old enough that you won't appreciate it? That's my general take on it Rik.... |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:12:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance. Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed. You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. Their is historical precedent for this in America when they seized gold and more recently in Europe with their "haircuts" |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:13:31 AM EDT
[#18]
I intend to die at my desk.
Hopefully it's my desk in the "Yacht Office." 
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:14:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the article: This is proceeding as planned (government dependence) This despite the market's historical average return of around 10-11%... 
vs the expected -30% return for social security for Gen X'ers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the article: Further, 40 percent say a large unexpected healthcare expense represents their biggest retirement fear, while and 37 percent list the loss or reduction of Social Security as fear No. 1.
This is proceeding as planned (government dependence) As for the stock market, only 24 percent of the middle class view stocks as a good investment for retirement. Meanwhile, 45 percent say "the stock market doesn't benefit people like me."
A majority (52 percent) say they shun stocks because "I am afraid to lose my nest egg in the ups and downs of the market." This despite the market's historical average return of around 10-11%...
vs the expected -30% return for social security for Gen X'ers. Holy shit
And people wonder why the middle class is shrinking. Idiots. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:16:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MAYBE some of us don't WANT to retire I plan on working til I'm a drooling vegatable The THOUGHT of sitting around with nothing to do is the FURTHEREST thing I want . This. I actually LIKE my job. Crazy eh? |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:22:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's my general take on it Rik.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You see it in threads here. People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc... People live for the here and now. As opposed to suffering when you're young and can enjoy life to the fullest so that you can have a tiny bit of extra comfort when you're old enough that you won't appreciate it? That's my general take on it Rik.... I make good money, but pay 'myself first' by maxing out the retirement contributions, have been for 26 years. House in a nice area is paid off, cars paid off. I probably have more 'toys' here that a good percentage of the members. And a nice retirement account so far.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:24:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe I will retire. Cost of living in 40 years will easily be twice what it is today. You need to retire with a cool million at a minimum to live comfortably in your remaining years assuming you don't outlive the money. Here is where you can apply the rule of 72. Assuming a 3% inflation rate, the cost of living doubles in 24 years. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:24:27 AM EDT
[#23]
I also don't figure that I will be able to retire. I will have to keep working to maintain health coverage. I also think that I will be means tested out of Social Security, and that the 401K rules will be changed not to my benefit. By then, most of my gun collection will prolly be unsellable and to be remanded to the .gov upon my death. There has to be someone left to pull the wagon. But I have been told that I have a negative attitude before.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:29:08 AM EDT
[#24]
I thought the country was going to collapse in ten years and be ruled by a small group of postmen.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:34:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Well, the labor participation rate is 63% and you have to have a job before you can retire from one, so that is probably true.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:40:19 AM EDT
[#26]
I guess retirement is something welfare leeches don't concern themselves with.
Uncle Sugar will take care of them cradle to grave.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:52:45 AM EDT
[#27]
My intentions are to retire in four years when I turn 65.
I am pretty needed here and there is always the chance they will sweeten the pay to get me to stay one more year. And then there is that thing called insurance and by then all this up in the air BS will probably be settled one way or the other and so that is a major consideration that all of us will have to deal with. But when I say "retire" I dont have any intention of wasting away in front of the television. I actually plan to work part time 2 to 3 days a week to make a little pocket change and to have some interaction with people. Of course after working all these years at that point I positively will not ever work 40 plus hours a week again and whatever I work at will be absolutely stress free and I will turn around and walk away the first time some jackass thinks he can give me a hard time at said part time job. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:55:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think seizing of retirement assets by the government isn't to far off either. All that filthy lucre just sitting there out of reach of government control is akin to a jug of water to a man dying of thirst. [But it will be for our "own good" when they do it. ]Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance. Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed. I think seizing of retirement assets by the government isn't to far off either. All that filthy lucre just sitting there out of reach of government control is akin to a jug of water to a man dying of thirst. [But it will be for our "own good" when they do it. ]This |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:58:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Guys treat your kids like GOLD, you will need them to take care of you later. That's why 3rd world people have a ton of kids, it's their retirement plan.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:09:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Meh... at least 37% of middles class Americans have jobs that they could easily do when they're old as hell.
We just aren't much of a manual labor nation anymore. Retirement made sense when you were toting barges and lifting bales. Sitting behind a desk, not so much. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:19:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy shit
And people wonder why the middle class is shrinking. Idiots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
From the article: Further, 40 percent say a large unexpected healthcare expense represents their biggest retirement fear, while and 37 percent list the loss or reduction of Social Security as fear No. 1.
This is proceeding as planned (government dependence) As for the stock market, only 24 percent of the middle class view stocks as a good investment for retirement. Meanwhile, 45 percent say "the stock market doesn't benefit people like me."
A majority (52 percent) say they shun stocks because "I am afraid to lose my nest egg in the ups and downs of the market." This despite the market's historical average return of around 10-11%...
vs the expected -30% return for social security for Gen X'ers. Holy shit
And people wonder why the middle class is shrinking. Idiots. Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:29:46 AM EDT
[#32]
This sucks. Lots of people who work for a living will have to work until they die, but there is a news story from CNS that reports that there are now more people collecting government assistance than who have full time jobs. Those lazy slobs collecting govt aid get a free ride but the minority that actually works gets to work to death, and also be called greedy when we don't want our taxes raised.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:58:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )What stock market are you investing in?
Over the last 5 years, the S&P 500 has returned about 80%. That's an annualized return of over 16% annually, which still leaves a significant return after adjusting for inflation. All you had to do was put your money in a simple index fund and not touch it. And 5 years is an extremely short timeline. If you're investing for retirement, you don't need to be concerned with 5 year returns, unless you're retiring in the next 5 years. The stock market fluctuates. Some years, it returns 20%, some years, it has a negative return. That's just part of it. But over time, stock market returns revert back closer to the historical average, which is about 10% annually. That's all you need to be concerned with until you start approaching retirement age. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:03:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No suffering here. I make good money, but pay 'myself first' by maxing out the retirement contributions, have been for 26 years. House in a nice area is paid off, cars paid off. I probably have more 'toys' here that a good percentage of the members. And a nice retirement account so far. You have kids? |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:07:23 AM EDT
[#35]
My retirement plan involves being debt free and in business for myself, doing only as much work as I feel necessary. I don't think the ideal of "retiring" most people seem to have, as in buying an RV and doing nothing but travel or visit family or whatever is attractive, or feasible.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:10:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. That last bit just underscores a problem with our perception of "class." We fixate on lifestyle, not wealth - barely income. Base But it is assets, not lifestyle, that ultimately makes the difference. Everybody in the US thinks they are middle class, it's pretty much a defining characteristic of our culture. Living what you think is a proper "middle class lifestyle" by leveraging yourself to the hilt does not make you middle class. It might make you stupid and irresponsible. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:11:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You see it in threads here. People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc... People live for the here and now. yep |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:19:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
From the article: Further, 40 percent say a large unexpected healthcare expense represents their biggest retirement fear, while and 37 percent list the loss or reduction of Social Security as fear No. 1.
This is proceeding as planned (government dependence) As for the stock market, only 24 percent of the middle class view stocks as a good investment for retirement. Meanwhile, 45 percent say "the stock market doesn't benefit people like me."
A majority (52 percent) say they shun stocks because "I am afraid to lose my nest egg in the ups and downs of the market." This despite the market's historical average return of around 10-11%...
vs the expected -30% return for social security for Gen X'ers. Holy shit
And people wonder why the middle class is shrinking. Idiots. Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )You would have to have gone out of your way to get have gotten a return that low over the past 5 years. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:21:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What stock market are you investing in?
Over the last 5 years, the S&P 500 has returned about 80%. That's an annualized return of over 16% annually, which still leaves a significant return after adjusting for inflation. All you had to do was put your money in a simple index fund and not touch it. And 5 years is an extremely short timeline. If you're investing for retirement, you don't need to be concerned with 5 year returns, unless you're retiring in the next 5 years. The stock market fluctuates. Some years, it returns 20%, some years, it has a negative return. That's just part of it. But over time, stock market returns revert back closer to the historical average, which is about 10% annually. That's all you need to be concerned with until you start approaching retirement age. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )What stock market are you investing in?
Over the last 5 years, the S&P 500 has returned about 80%. That's an annualized return of over 16% annually, which still leaves a significant return after adjusting for inflation. All you had to do was put your money in a simple index fund and not touch it. And 5 years is an extremely short timeline. If you're investing for retirement, you don't need to be concerned with 5 year returns, unless you're retiring in the next 5 years. The stock market fluctuates. Some years, it returns 20%, some years, it has a negative return. That's just part of it. But over time, stock market returns revert back closer to the historical average, which is about 10% annually. That's all you need to be concerned with until you start approaching retirement age. Yep, my number was pulled from a bad source.  Stupid internet.
ETA: This USA Today article Says the return on large stocks for the last 5 years is 1.3% and the last 10 years is 2.0%. If you go out further the returns start getting into the 10% range. Understood... I'm approaching this from the midset of the respondant to the OP's survey. 5 years ago they had what they thought was a pile of money. Then the meltdown. Now only within the last couple years is their pile of cash as big as it was 5 years ago. Couple that with the increased cost of living, few raises, and little hope of improvement and faith in the system breaks down. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got a better link than Newsmax? People are quite pessimistic about the future of the US economy other sources will tell you the same. Even right now I know plenty of seniors who are still working. Our 68 year old receptionist only retired because she has stage 3 cancer. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:29:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Just turned 36.
I have paid into social security since I was 16. I expect there will be nothing there when it comes time to retire. I currently pay a 100% contribution into my retirement fund, not sure i can call it a pension due to the fact that I have doubts of living long enough to draw more from it than I paid into it. That is if my retirement/pension isnt raped/ransacked somehow by the time I can draw from it. Not sure what my health will be like should I retire but insurance options will be shit regardless of if I am working or not. So yeah, i will likely work til I die. My parents are well off and retired. However I wouldnt be surprised if my parents out live me. If they dont my parents will likely leave everything to me but we will have to scheme to make it so the inheritance tax doesnt take a full 50% of their estate. New American way is truly work til you die. That or join those who dont work and simply breed like a plague. I am not in debt up to my eyeballs. My only debt right now is a small car payment where the 3 year note will be paid off in a year and my mortgage which gets extra principle or payments applied to it. My discretionary income is going towards home improvements as well as a couple car projects, that is my relaxation and stress relief. Part of the reason I figure there will be no retirement is also due in part to my expensive tastes that a simple retirement is unlikely to sustain even if out of debt with house paid off. But it wont be any easier given the changes in things we are told we should be able to rely. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:29:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$75,000 guns.. ya its fucking nuts.. Im going to do like my dad did, retire to a gunsmithing job. I figure I can do that and make bullets till I die. Not because I have to but because I want to.. Got to keep busy, and the brain active.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You see it in threads here. People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc... People live for the here and now. $75,000 guns.. ya its fucking nuts.. Im going to do like my dad did, retire to a gunsmithing job. I figure I can do that and make bullets till I die. Not because I have to but because I want to.. Got to keep busy, and the brain active.. I am already living that dream except the part about being previously retired...but I will leave this job kicking and screaming... |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:35:25 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're already in the process of seizing personal retirement accounts with all the endless money pumping that the Fed is doing. Your balance may still be intact...but it isn't going to be worth squat when the time comes to retire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance. Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed. You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. They're already in the process of seizing personal retirement accounts with all the endless money pumping that the Fed is doing. Your balance may still be intact...but it isn't going to be worth squat when the time comes to retire. That negatively affects the dollar. It positively affects equities. That helps personal retirement accounts. Your dollars in the bank won't be worth squat due to inflation. My wealth will rise along with inflation. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:37:21 AM EDT
[#44]
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Their is historical precedent for this in America when they seized gold and more recently in Europe with their "haircuts" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout. The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time. The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me. Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance. Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed. You are crazy if you think they will seize personal retirement accounts. Yes, I know the idea has been floated by a couple of idiots in government but the idea is laughable. As soon as it even becomes a possibility the stock market and the entire banking industry will implode as people try to pull out all of their funds. Seizing personal retirement accounts is no different than them seizing your standard brokerage account or even your bank account. At that point all individual wealth will be erased. If they do anything they will change the tax advantages of those accounts. Their is historical precedent for this in America when they seized gold and more recently in Europe with their "haircuts" I am not familiar with the "haircuts" but our government prohibiting private gold ownership was done under completely different circumstances. It has nothing to do with what is being feared here. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:38:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh well. I enjoy being retired. For "middle class" people you pretty much have to be debt free before retiring to make it work. Taking on a new 30 year mortgage when you're 45 years old is not the way to go about it. We sold our house Sold the wife's Raptor bought a used Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and paid cash We're renting. I max out my 401K We put an addition $6000 per year in an investment account, with after tax money. We keep this handy to have access to cash quickly if we need it, but we also use it at tax time to fund an IRA for my wife and take the tax savings once we've made it through the year. My wife STOPPED working. She was making about $38K per year, and with my income level, she was pretty much working for about $.50 on the dollar...and it simply was not worth her time when it came to holidays, time away from home, etc. She she stopped working. Owning a home simply was not worth it for us. We never had enough home mortgage interest to itemize deductions, so we always took the standard deduction. Every year we got whacked with something...one year we had to remodel the kitchen due to a pipe bursting, the next we got hit with a hail storm and had to re-roof the house and replace the AC unit outside...we never got ahead owning a home. NEVER. Now, we rent, live in a nice neighborhood, and if something on the house breaks...THEY fix it. We live very simply, and yet, we still do the things we want to do, hunt, fish, travel occasionally, and enjoy ourselves...we find that we don't piss money away eating out or stress about jobs and schedules any more. Unless something horrible happens, I'll financially be able to retire when I'm 61 (I'm 41 now). I am not going to be in a position where I will HAVE to continue to work...come hell or high water, I'll be ready for retirement. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:41:07 AM EDT
[#46]
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Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )Source? 5 years ago today the Dow Jones was 9,325. Today it is [currently] 15,530. 9,325 @ 2.6% = 9,325 * 1.026 * 1.026 * 1.026 * 1.026 * 1.026 or 10,601.94 now... 9,325 @ 10.75% = 9,325 * 1.1075 * 1.1075 * 1.1075 * 1.1075 or 15,537 (a little closer to today's DJIA) |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:42:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not everyone finds having kids enjoyable. Marriage is not necessary to be with someone you love. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Divorce is the biggest reason most of my coworkers cannot retire "on time". The second reason is STUPIDLY borrowing against their 401k or other retirement savings to pay for an indulgent life style. This. Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department. If the key to success is NOT getting married and NOT having kids, things are pretty jacked up all around. What's the point? Just work long enough to save up money to not work again? What a life... Not everyone finds having kids enjoyable. Marriage is not necessary to be with someone you love. |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:42:57 AM EDT
[#48]
My social security tax dollars = money I will never, ever see again.
Money that goes into my pension fund = money I will never, ever see again. If I had all that money to invest myself, I would have a REALLY good nest egg built up. As it is, I have somebody else's REALLY good nest egg I've built up. To save for retirement, I'd be living in a shack and eating roman every night. Considering I might get hit by a bus tomorrow, I'm not willing to make that sort of sacrifice in the hopes that inflation doesn't kill an investment I've made in some other retirement fund. (And the hope that the feds don't tax it at 99%) |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:45:24 AM EDT
[#49]
This reminds me of some family members. Their lifestyle is outpacing their income.
 Which is sad, because they make good money. They'll likely never be able to retire.
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:48:07 AM EDT
[#50]
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Yep, my number was pulled from a bad source. Stupid internet.
ETA: This USA Today article Says the return on large stocks for the last 5 years is 1.3% and the last 10 years is 2.0%. If you go out further the returns start getting into the 10% range. Understood... I'm approaching this from the midset of the respondant to the OP's survey. 5 years ago they had what they thought was a pile of money. Then the meltdown. Now only within the last couple years is their pile of cash as big as it was 5 years ago. Couple that with the increased cost of living, few raises, and little hope of improvement and faith in the system breaks down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Problem is, for the last 5 years the rate of return has been 2.6%. Hard to save for retirement using stocks when the market is just keeping up with inflation. (Don't tell my about your awesome investments that are returning 87% because the average guy doesn't have the skill set to do that. )What stock market are you investing in?
Over the last 5 years, the S&P 500 has returned about 80%. That's an annualized return of over 16% annually, which still leaves a significant return after adjusting for inflation. All you had to do was put your money in a simple index fund and not touch it. And 5 years is an extremely short timeline. If you're investing for retirement, you don't need to be concerned with 5 year returns, unless you're retiring in the next 5 years. The stock market fluctuates. Some years, it returns 20%, some years, it has a negative return. That's just part of it. But over time, stock market returns revert back closer to the historical average, which is about 10% annually. That's all you need to be concerned with until you start approaching retirement age. Yep, my number was pulled from a bad source. Stupid internet.
ETA: This USA Today article Says the return on large stocks for the last 5 years is 1.3% and the last 10 years is 2.0%. If you go out further the returns start getting into the 10% range. Understood... I'm approaching this from the midset of the respondant to the OP's survey. 5 years ago they had what they thought was a pile of money. Then the meltdown. Now only within the last couple years is their pile of cash as big as it was 5 years ago. Couple that with the increased cost of living, few raises, and little hope of improvement and faith in the system breaks down. Ah, ok. Yes, that is biased (USA Today = extreme lefties/socialists) and naturally outdated. Due to timing, the author included the dot.com bubble burst still on the downward trend as well as the 2007-2009 plunge. In other words, the data was massaged to suit USA Today's agenda. Surprisingly, they included these figures (as of Q4/2011): • 5 years: 1.3% • 10 years: 2.0% • 20 years: 7.9% • 30 years: 10.5% • 40 years: 9.8% • 50 years: 9.2% So, it's really no secret...get debt free as soon as you can, especially for depreciating assets (cars, etc) and invest for the 20-40 year long haul and you'll make out pretty well. I'm 40 and didn't start investing until I was 26 (y2k), the year I became debt free except for mortgage (4%) and my financial adviser projects that I'll be able to retire at 52 if I wish. |
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