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Posted: 12/2/2014 8:58:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very cool. As everyone else has said, unless you are claiming to be a vet, it's not stolen valor. I wear an M41 field jacket out every now and then, no insignia right now but I've been meaning to add 5th armored and Tech 5 patches to commemorate my grandfather's service. That's awesome...I should do the same with my old field jacket!!! Leave my patch on but add both my grandfathers. I believe one was 2nd ID, and the other was 82nd. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 8:58:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Make sure you say stuff like "This isn't the European Theater. There are rules" and "Yeah, that reminds me of the time I was bombing Dresden..." And be sure to yell out "This is for Pearl Harbor!" while kicking German automobiles parked on the street. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 8:58:45 PM EDT
[#3]
You should wear it because it's so cool, and guys like me would love to see cool stuff like that.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 8:59:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unless you make claims that are not true, it isn't stolen valor, imo. Agreed. But that is history. I would not wear it, and I would also take greater measures to protect it from damage. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 8:59:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Oh anyone know what the wings are I think he was a navigator. Is that right?
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Posted: 12/2/2014 9:04:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Cool jacket.
I agree with "wear it and enjoy it." |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 9:08:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: A few years ago I purchased this bomber jacket. I have bought other nice Army Air Corps stuff from this family before. Here is the story the Father was in a home and the son wanted to get rid of some stuff. His dad flew in the 8th Air force in WW2. There was a fiftieth anniversary reunion. So he had his old Twenty five mission jacket rebuilt this was the 90's. With the jacket came a 1910 baby browning in 25acp. Tons of pitting on the left side next to the body and pristine on the right. I am guessing that the original jackets had a vest pocket to carry pistols in on the left. I looked doubtful. So I asked the Wing he was a part of. This is what I got.8th AF 3rd air division, 45th combat wing, 96th bomb group C, 339th bomber squadron. He said that the jackets came with no insignia and the local British women made logos and patches that were hand cut. He also berated the too perfect reproductions in that the art was too good. In that one of the crew usually hand painted the jackets. It's a redo I know that. Constructed by a original member of the crew and painted by him. Stacked hand cut 8th patch and all paint was covered in some kind of flexible clear coat. I paid 100$ for it with pistol. It's kind of big for me but if I wore it would this be a case of stolen valor? The 339th was reactivated in Korea but he never flew there. But he did make Major. http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170012.jpg http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170015.jpg http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170016.jpg This was cut from the original coat and stitched to the new one. http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170017.jpg It sits in my closet. The leather needs to be worked a bit. He wore it for a couple of years I was told. I've had it since 2002.Pictures were taken at my sisters house. That's a cool jacket, I'd wear it
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Posted: 12/2/2014 9:17:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Very cool jacket, I am jelly!
Wear the heck out of it. Nice to have on as you are telling people to get off your lawn. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 9:25:13 PM EDT
[#9]
It's a cool jacket. Unless you are 90 years old, and you're making claims that it was your outfit.... Then it's no different than wearing the jersey of your favorite football team.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 9:47:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh anyone know what the wings are I think he was a navigator. Is that right? They look like AAC pilot wings to me, but that's just a guess. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:50:56 PM EDT
[#11]
From Wiki: The 3d Air Division was activated in September 1943 as an intermediate command and control organization between command and wing levels. It was assigned to VIII Bomber Command, Eighth Air Force. The Division commanded three combat bombardment wings (4th, 13th and 45th), consisting of seven B-17 Flying Fortress bomb groups. The addition of the 92nd and 93d Combat Bomb Wings in 1944 and additional bomb groups to the other wings increased the number of combat groups to fourteen. Between May 1944 and September 1944 the division operated both B-17 Flying Fortress (nine groups) and B-24 Liberator (five groups) aircraft, before converting to an all-B-17 organization for the remainder of the war. In September 1944 the 66th Fighter Wing was assigned directly to the division for fighter support.
The bomb groups were engaged in strategic bombardment combat operations against Axis targets in the European Theater of Operations (ETO). During the weeks immediately preceding D-Day (6 June 1944), division aircraft bombed tactical targets such as German communications centers and lines of support, and on D-Day hit targets on the Cherbourg Peninsula immediately behind the landing beaches. After V-E Day, the 3d Air Division briefly became part of the United States Air Forces in Europe. As former Eighth Air Force units were withdrawn from Europe and returned to the United States during the summer and fall of 1945, the Division was assigned to VIII Fighter Command and controlled a mixture of bombardment and fighter groups before itself being inactivated on 21 November 1945. A bit of history for those who don't want to look it up. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:59:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unless you make claims that are not true, it isn't stolen valor, imo. This. Besides with the "Axis Nightmare" it's clearly a WW2 era item. Unless you're in your 80s, I rather doubt anyone rational will see you wearing that and think you served during that time-frame. The only thing I'd personally be concerned with is preservation of such a rare and beautiful flight jacket. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:03:33 PM EDT
[#13]
When we were kids, my brother used to wear one of my dads flight jackets. Dad was an Army pilot.
One day at a bicycle shop this old guy gave my brother a bunch of shit for wearing the jacket and having the rank still on it... lol We were probably like 9 and 11 years old at the time. Just amusing related story 
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:04:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wearing a jacket like that isn't even close to stolen valor. Nobody is going to think that you're a 90 year old bomber pilot. I would Eff with people and tell them I was a pilot in 1941.  |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:06:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Tricky. Alot of these jackets were made in reproduction form as a trendy fashion statement in the 80-90s. I would say ask a mil aviator for a ruling.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:10:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is more about the rank insignia. Taking them off would damage it. Just wanted to see how the mil guys thought about it. It's only about 20 years old. But to keep the folds right and a little body heat and moisture is what it needs. I took it to a place that specializes in leather coats. If I fly an L bird restored to WWII equipment and insignia I am not posing, just flying an artifact. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:16:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. No one is going to assume you are a WWII bomber pilot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
unless you make claims that are not true, it isn't stolen valor, imo. This. No one is going to assume you are a WWII bomber pilot. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:26:10 PM EDT
[#18]
The jacket symbolizes someone else's accomplishments. I wouldn't wear it. I won't buy a current issue nomex flight jacket to wear with jeans, even though I'd love to have one, because I was never on flying status. Others may feel differently as is their right.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:36:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Kind of thinking the Major Rank Insignia on the shoulders is a bad thing for a civilian to sport who didn't achieve that rank while in the Service. However, nobody is going to believe you had 25 bomber missions over Europe unless they're a total idiot so I don't feel you're stealing anything from WWII vets.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:36:54 PM EDT
[#20]
That's a friggen cool jacket, although if I were going to wear that I would remove the oak leaves.
To me nothing wrong with taking pride with a unit but wearing rank is a no go if it's not yours. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:50:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Wear it with pride and enjoy it. Learn the complete history behind the units and if anyone asks, use that opportunity to give a good and interesting history lesson. You'll bring honor where it's due and enjoy yourself immensely in both the learning and telling of its story.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:59:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The jacket symbolizes someone else's accomplishments. I wouldn't wear it. I won't buy a current issue nomex flight jacket to wear with jeans, even though I'd love to have one, because I was never on flying status. Others may feel differently as is their right. I asked this question like three years ago, in a much more awkward way and this was the sentiment. But the authority on leather said there is no real way to get moisture into and through the silk other than someone wearing it. Not sweat but moisture at a slow rate. From the inside. Steam isn't going to cut it. Preservation is my real goal. But many have never seen such a thing. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 12:04:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I asked this question like three years ago, in a much more awkward way and this was the sentiment. But the authority on leather said there is no real way to get moisture into and through the silk other than someone wearing it. Not sweat but moisture at a slow rate. From the inside. Steam isn't going to cut it. Preservation is my real goal. But many have never seen such a thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The jacket symbolizes someone else's accomplishments. I wouldn't wear it. I won't buy a current issue nomex flight jacket to wear with jeans, even though I'd love to have one, because I was never on flying status. Others may feel differently as is their right. I asked this question like three years ago, in a much more awkward way and this was the sentiment. But the authority on leather said there is no real way to get moisture into and through the silk other than someone wearing it. Not sweat but moisture at a slow rate. From the inside. Steam isn't going to cut it. Preservation is my real goal. But many have never seen such a thing. OK. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 12:06:50 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh anyone know what the wings are I think he was a navigator. Is that right? The badge looks like the "radiator," ie pilot's wings. This is the Navigator badge, through 1951: 
Navigator "splattered bug" badge, today- the wreath and star indicates Master-level Navigator: 
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Posted: 12/3/2014 12:07:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unless you make claims that are not true, it isn't stolen valor, imo. Yup. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 12:09:51 AM EDT
[#26]
Well I learned something then. That's one thing I forgot to ask about when I bought it.
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Posted: 12/3/2014 8:15:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll never get over Macho Grande. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Make sure you say stuff like "This isn't the European Theater. There are rules" and "Yeah, that reminds me of the time I was bombing Dresden..." Poor George Zipp. 
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Posted: 12/3/2014 8:18:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Some people also wear stuff in honor. Just don't give the proscription that you've earned it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
unless you make claims that are not true, it isn't stolen valor, imo. This. Some people also wear stuff in honor. Just don't give the proscription that you've earned it Agreed, however if you still feel uncomfortable about wearing it, may consider calling an AF Base museum and see if they have a WW2 exhibit they would like to display it in. Zach |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 8:24:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would Eff with people and tell them I was a pilot in 1941.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wearing a jacket like that isn't even close to stolen valor. Nobody is going to think that you're a 90 year old bomber pilot. I would Eff with people and tell them I was a pilot in 1941.
"Yeah... God-damned third Philadelphia Experiment. Left behind the only woman I'll ever love..." |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:18:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Its older so I say wear it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:33:01 AM EDT
[#31]
Yes, that looks like navigator wings. My father was a navigator on a B-17, so I have seen them before.
<---- ETA: See left Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh anyone know what the wings are I think he was a navigator. Is that right? |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:35:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Are you old enough to be a WWII vet op?
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:35:20 AM EDT
[#33]
I wouldn't wear it... not because of "stolen valor", but because that jacket is priceless and I wouldn't want to ruin it.
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:43:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Stolen Valor is making a verbal or written claim to being or doing something you are not or did not do. Wearing Mil-Surp is NOT stolen valor, wearing MarPat while playing paintball or airsoft or dicking around in the woods is NOT stolen valor. The picture of the loser wearing 87 medals is NOT stolen valor, unless he claims he earned them, if not he is just a nerd, which is legal if not unfortunate. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:45:23 AM EDT
[#35]
That's an amazing jacket. Wear it like a boss.
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:49:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a friggen cool jacket, although if I were going to wear that I would remove the oak leaves. What if, due to age, there was a shadow remaining from those oak leaves? Maybe OP could sew patches over the affected area, you know of plain cloth, to fully hide them, otherwise people might still assume he was stealing some valor. You know, surreptitiously. He might get a nod, or maybe even a cup of coffee from an old timer working in Denny's. Maybe it would be best to cut out the offensive material, that way, if during daily wear, there would be no chance of one of the covering patches to fall off and expose him to ridicule or worse, assault from someone thinking he is stealing some valor! Or, maybe, those who are really involved in making sure that others do not get any stolen valor, could start a certification service that the OP could pay into, he would then receive, lets say a large tag that would hang off the end of the coat, like a cows ear tag, that certifies him as a non-service member, but not attempting to steal valor? It could be a nominal charge, $50 per article of clothing. I can't see any other way to be absolutely sure failing this certification process. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:52:17 AM EDT
[#37]
I vote beat the shit out of the son for selling something like that. Fucking douche basically gave away an heirloom for spending money.
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:52:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is more about the rank insignia. Taking them off would damage it. Just wanted to see how the mil guys thought about it. It's only about 20 years old. But to keep the folds right and a little body heat and moisture is what it needs. I took it to a place that specializes in leather coats. My great-grandfather was in the Navy, and if I weren't in the Navy and I had any of his old stuff I wanted to wear, I'd wear that stuff in a heartbeat. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:55:02 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I actually smirked. 
I wear a special forces shirt a SF friend gave me. You cross the line when you claim or allude to be something you aren't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wearing a jacket like that isn't even close to stolen valor. Nobody is going to think that you're a 90 year old bomber pilot. This. I actually smirked.
I wear a special forces shirt a SF friend gave me. You cross the line when you claim or allude to be something you aren't. Yep. My sister got me a Harley t-shirt from Vegas... I've never been there. I've never had a Harley. I wear the hell out of that shirt. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:57:21 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
A few years ago I purchased this bomber jacket. I have bought other nice Army Air Corps stuff from this family before. Here is the story the Father was in a home and the son wanted to get rid of some stuff. His dad flew in the 8th Air force in WW2. There was a fiftieth anniversary reunion. So he had his old Twenty five mission jacket rebuilt this was the 90's. With the jacket came a 1910 baby browning in 25acp. Tons of pitting on the left side next to the body and pristine on the right. I am guessing that the original jackets had a vest pocket to carry pistols in on the left. I looked doubtful. So I asked the Wing he was a part of. This is what I got.8th AF 3rd air division, 45th combat wing, 96th bomb group C, 339th bomber squadron. He said that the jackets came with no insignia and the local British women made logos and patches that were hand cut. He also berated the too perfect reproductions in that the art was too good. In that one of the crew usually hand painted the jackets. It's a redo I know that. Constructed by a original member of the crew and painted by him. Stacked hand cut 8th patch and all paint was covered in some kind of flexible clear coat. I paid 100$ for it with pistol. It's kind of big for me but if I wore it would this be a case of stolen valor? The 339th was reactivated in Korea but he never flew there. But he did make Major. http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170012.jpg http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170015.jpg http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170016.jpg This was cut from the original coat and stitched to the new one. http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/Mauserone/P1170017.jpg It sits in my closet. The leather needs to be worked a bit. He wore it for a couple of years I was told. I've had it since 2002.Pictures were taken at my sisters house. its your wear it. It not like you are sayiny YOU DID IT For christ sake. You guys and this "stolen Valor" get the fuck over it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 10:04:41 AM EDT
[#41]
Wear it and enjoy it. The only reason it would be stolen valor is if you were telling people you were the WWII bomber and trying to profit from it.
Now go and enjoy your bomber jacket. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 10:13:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Badass jacket!
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Posted: 12/3/2014 10:35:23 AM EDT
[#43]
I wear my grandfather's jacket that he wore on the IOWA. Says I'm a GMCM which I'm a GM but definitely not a Master Chief. Meh, I don't care, I don't claim to be one. I just wear it because it was his. Also has huge block lettering on the back that read BB 61
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Posted: 12/3/2014 11:10:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And be sure to yell out "This is for Pearl Harbor!" while kicking German automobiles parked on the street. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Make sure you say stuff like "This isn't the European Theater. There are rules" and "Yeah, that reminds me of the time I was bombing Dresden..." And be sure to yell out "This is for Pearl Harbor!" while kicking German automobiles parked on the street. ^ Yes. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 11:30:43 AM EDT
[#45]
OP, I can guarantee that somebody will call you out for wearing that jacket. I'll put money on it.
The good thing is that you've got the story behind the jacket and can turn the tables on the turkey who does this. I got called out by someone for wearing this t-shirt ... 
Here's how I came about the shirt ... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1368773_Just_learned_that_a_friend_is_graduating_from_Ranger_School_tomorrow__.html It should be noted that the time stamps are all off by 5 hours in the archived thread. +5 hours should be added to all of the timestamps. Strange. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 11:31:45 AM EDT
[#46]
I'm pretty sensitive to stolen valor. To the point I wouldn't even wear marpat because it's got a globe and anchor on it I didn't earn. I know that probably sounds silly to many but it's just the way I feel when I see the insignia. I didn't earn it.
That being said, op is asking about a jacket that he couldn't possibly have worn in active duty during its time of service. Nobody could realistically look at him wearing it and confuse him for having served in that capacity. And if some liberal dipshit did ask him if he served in the Army Air Corp then I'd encourage him to say yes, that he has thirty-seven B-17 missions over Germany under his belt, was shot down, and subsequently spent 87 days in a Japanese pow camp with a bunch of Russian submariners. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 11:50:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't wear it... not because of "stolen valor", but because that jacket is priceless and I wouldn't want to ruin it. It's not the greatest jacket in the world...It's just a tribute. OP, it's obviously not much of a "stolen valor" issue, but you should cover up the Major insignia. Buy or make some epaulets to cover them up. Most flight jackets don't have that anyway. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 12:00:39 PM EDT
[#48]
If you were to tell people it belonged to your Father or Grandfather, or Mentor, would that be stolen valor, by proxy?
'Cause that what I would do.
"yeah, It was given to me by a good friend.... the greatest Man I ever knew....he made me the man I am today". You can't just tell people you bought It from the guy's douchbag druggie son. It's an insult to the Jacket, and to the Man. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:06:07 PM EDT
[#49]
I hear you there. I just wanted to be up front on how I got it. The son wasn't a druggy that I know of.
Just had kids with a couple of wives and really careless. Pissed money away like water. I sat with his father while he got new tires for like 1 1/2 hours once. We talked quite a lot. I never knew this existed till it was offered to me. I just couldn't let it get by. So I bought it. I could have sold the 25 to regain my money but I thought they should stay together. The pocket on the left side interior could swallow a full size 1911 and you'd never know it was there and he carried the baby Browning. I'll get some pictures of it if you give me a few. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:14:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hear you there. I just wanted to be up front on how I got it. The son wasn't a druggy that I know of. Just had kids with a couple of wives and really careless. Pissed money away like water. I sat with his father while he got new tires for like 1 1/2 hours once. We talked quite a lot. I never knew this existed till it was offered to me. I just couldn't let it get by. So I bought it. I could have sold the 25 to regain my money but I thought they should stay together. The pocket on the left side interior could swallow a full size 1911 and you'd never know it was there and he carried the baby Browning. I'll get some pictures of it if you give me a few. Cool. Post it up. You got a great deal. I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat. I can't even imagine a son not wanting his dad's war relics. That's why I assumed druggie. I was actually giving him the benefit of the doubt. it's actually kinda cool that it's just a replica. If it was an original, you would have to feel sorta guilty wearing it. So, you've got a wearable, authentic replica, given to you by a man you greatly respect. Just don't wear it on the subway...unless you keep your Pimp Hand Strong!
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