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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:09:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... [removed - Paul], go shit in another thread. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:16:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Can someone post a link to the case study of the incident.
Eta: never mind. Found a video explanation of the incident. http://wildfiretoday.com/2013/09/28/yarnell-hill-fire-report-released |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#3]
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Can someone post a link to the case study of the incident. Sorry I'm linking a Google search, but the first link is a 6 month official report in pdf I'll try to find more In a bit. Eta: I messed that up. Google "granite mountain hotshots incident report" The first result is what you are looking for. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:31:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. I'm not rebutting anything in this thread, it's not for that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nice rebuttal. Based on your avatar I'm sure you've seen the case studies during your annual refresher at a minimum. Yes. I'm not rebutting anything in this thread, it's not for that. I agree. I was wondering what conclusions were reached, but today ain't the day and tomorrow doesn't look good either. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:32:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be a fucking dick, go shit in another thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... Don't be a fucking dick, go shit in another thread. Every year, every wildland firefighter is put through an annual refresher. In that refresher, every death from the previous year is meticulously reviewed to determine if it could have been avoided. Burnovers get the most scrutiny, as most of them could have been avoided had the 10 and 18 standard fire orders been followed. This event, unfortunately, was no different. It was a tragedy, certainly. But to remember it without attempting to learn from it is an affront to the lives they sacrificed, and goes against everything we as firefighters are taught. Putting the mistakes made of previously fallen brothers in the forefront of your mind when on the job may some day save your life. To remove those mistakes from this discussion cheapens the event, and I'm sure all 19 of those that gave their lives would want their mistakes to be used as teachable moments instead of just a sad shake of the head. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:33:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GTFO of this thread and start your own if you want to be a dick. RIP to the 19 who lost their lives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... GTFO of this thread and start your own if you want to be a dick. RIP to the 19 who lost their lives. Hold on a second... If mistakes were made they need to be discussed. We as firefighters keep killing ourselves over the same age old mistakes and because we are either too cocky or too stupid (usually a combo of both) and we never take time to learn from those mistakes. Fire behavior hasn't changed since the beginning of time, but here we are still killing firefighters. If I was one of those 19, I wouldn't want my death to be a useless one, I would hope that someone, anyone, would learn from my mistakes. Those guys are looking down on us right now ready to slap us upside the head for not talking about it. I say air it out, out of respect for those fallen 19 men. RIP Brothers. 
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:35:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold on a second... snip RIP Brothers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... GTFO of this thread and start your own if you want to be a dick. RIP to the 19 who lost their lives. Hold on a second... snip RIP Brothers. Yes, RIP to those who lost their lives. Save the politics for a different thread. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:38:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold on a second... If mistakes were made they need to be discussed. We as firefighters keep killing ourselves over the same age old mistakes and because we are either too cocky or too stupid (usually a combo of both) and we never take time to learn from those mistakes. Fire behavior hasn't changed since the beginning of time, but here we are still killing firefighters. If I was one of those 19, I wouldn't want my death to be a useless one, I would hope that someone, anyone, would learn from my mistakes. Those guys are looking down on us right now ready to slap us upside the head for not talking about it. I say air it out, out of respect for those fallen 19 men. RIP Brothers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... GTFO of this thread and start your own if you want to be a dick. RIP to the 19 who lost their lives. Hold on a second... If mistakes were made they need to be discussed. We as firefighters keep killing ourselves over the same age old mistakes and because we are either too cocky or too stupid (usually a combo of both) and we never take time to learn from those mistakes. Fire behavior hasn't changed since the beginning of time, but here we are still killing firefighters. If I was one of those 19, I wouldn't want my death to be a useless one, I would hope that someone, anyone, would learn from my mistakes. Those guys are looking down on us right now ready to slap us upside the head for not talking about it. I say air it out, out of respect for those fallen 19 men. RIP Brothers. I completely agree with learning from this, I guarantee pretty much every supe in R3 has the incident report memorized. I think what we are saying is, coming in a memorial thread and placing the blame on 1 guy, is not constructive for the family, friends and brethren of Granite Mountain. Especially when that blame being spouted is pointing to criminal negligence. I have a lot more to say on that, and his post in particular, but this ain't the thread. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:41:54 PM EDT
[#9]
[removed and timeout issued. This ain't the General Discussion. You all better learn that really quickly. Paul]
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:42:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hold on a second... If mistakes were made they need to be discussed. We as firefighters keep killing ourselves over the same age old mistakes and because we are either too cocky or too stupid (usually a combo of both) and we never take time to learn from those mistakes. Fire behavior hasn't changed since the beginning of time, but here we are still killing firefighters. If I was one of those 19, I wouldn't want my death to be a useless one, I would hope that someone, anyone, would learn from my mistakes. Those guys are looking down on us right now ready to slap us upside the head for not talking about it. I say air it out, out of respect for those fallen 19 men. RIP Brothers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... GTFO of this thread and start your own if you want to be a dick. RIP to the 19 who lost their lives. Hold on a second... If mistakes were made they need to be discussed. We as firefighters keep killing ourselves over the same age old mistakes and because we are either too cocky or too stupid (usually a combo of both) and we never take time to learn from those mistakes. Fire behavior hasn't changed since the beginning of time, but here we are still killing firefighters. If I was one of those 19, I wouldn't want my death to be a useless one, I would hope that someone, anyone, would learn from my mistakes. Those guys are looking down on us right now ready to slap us upside the head for not talking about it. I say air it out, out of respect for those fallen 19 men. RIP Brothers. Stay in the black OP! |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:44:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Hits home with me, I'm a Fireman and I was in the pool at my Mom and Dad's house in Wickenburg AZ when the fire Blew up.
My wife, son and I drove in that morning for the 4th. My son wanted to go in the pool. So we hopped in, I was interested in watching it for obvious reasons. Can't keep a fireman from checking out a fire. I kept thinking to myself that it could get bad if the wind picked up. It was a pretty large header, but going straight up till around 1400 or so. Once it started laying over I thought, shit this might get bad and it did. Shortly after it blew up. They said on the news that comms were lost with a crew. I thought to myself maybe they just had bad comms and were cut off. Obviously it wasn't just a comms issue. I Cant imagine what they went through, I have limited brush and no forest experience. But I can tell you that I respect their skills, endurance and bravery. Its and entirely different animal compared to what I do. God bless, RIP |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:44:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Wow I can't believe it's been two years since that happened. It feels like yesterday I was reading that story.
RIP brothers  |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:47:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The new information will make it out, at least some will. That dude has no business shitting in this thread. Start a new thread about lessons learned. Stay in the black OP! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on all evidence, they unfortunately died following the errant orders of the acting crew leader who attempted to unsafely move them to prtoect structure he had a vested interest in. There is no logical explanation for them being in the place they were when they were burned over. Just another reminder to think for yourself in all situations, and always question authority. Numerous violations of the standard firefighting orders... GTFO of this thread and start your own if you want to be a dick. RIP to the 19 who lost their lives. Hold on a second... If mistakes were made they need to be discussed. We as firefighters keep killing ourselves over the same age old mistakes and because we are either too cocky or too stupid (usually a combo of both) and we never take time to learn from those mistakes. Fire behavior hasn't changed since the beginning of time, but here we are still killing firefighters. If I was one of those 19, I wouldn't want my death to be a useless one, I would hope that someone, anyone, would learn from my mistakes. Those guys are looking down on us right now ready to slap us upside the head for not talking about it. I say air it out, out of respect for those fallen 19 men. RIP Brothers. Stay in the black OP! I love how so many folks are willing to jump on my back without addressing one point I've made. It is all of you who are doing the disservice to their memory by attempting to shut down a logical discussion that could save WFF lives in the future. If there is new information, please let it be known. I have heard nothing since my refresher in the spring but I could get the call to head out west at any minute. If this thread was only meant for sad emoticons, that information should have been posted in the OP. ETA: The best legacy for the Granite Mountain Hotshots would be that this would be the last loss of firefighter life on a wildfire, ever. Without learning from the past, we are doomed to repeat it. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:50:34 PM EDT
[#14]
[removed and timeout issued - Paul]
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:55:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Hard to believe it's been 2 years. I have several friends in both structure and wildland. It'd be tough losing just one of them.
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:56:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Deleted in deference to the fallen. RIP boys!
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:57:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Their resting place...
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:01:30 PM EDT
[#18]
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Their resting place... http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/pdenonville/6B6B9E3F-F574-4CEE-9AFC-5C5BE7F56564_zpsybgav7fb.jpg Did you take that? The beauty and stillness there is pretty amazing, I never thought to take a picture. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:06:49 PM EDT
[#19]
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Did you take that? The beauty and stillness there is pretty amazing, I never thought to take a picture. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Their resting place... http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/pdenonville/6B6B9E3F-F574-4CEE-9AFC-5C5BE7F56564_zpsybgav7fb.jpg Did you take that? The beauty and stillness there is pretty amazing, I never thought to take a picture. Yes. That's my BIL being buried right above them. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:06:50 PM EDT
[#20]
they died doing their duty, we can honor them by staying respectful and professional towards each other.
I got my red card for the first time the day after this happened. still don't know quite what to think about that other than that it was an honor to be a part of the same team and it still is. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:11:45 PM EDT
[#21]
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Yes. That's my BIL being buried right above them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Their resting place... http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/pdenonville/6B6B9E3F-F574-4CEE-9AFC-5C5BE7F56564_zpsybgav7fb.jpg Did you take that? The beauty and stillness there is pretty amazing, I never thought to take a picture. Yes. That's my BIL being buried right above them. Damn, sorry for your loss. A beautiful spot to be put today rest though. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 12:20:33 AM EDT
[#22]
The behavior in this post is not appropriate here at all. Stop with the name calling and squabbling. Please behave like you have manners or I'll fix your problem once and for all.
Clear? Thank you. 
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Posted: 7/1/2015 12:45:13 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:31:37 AM EDT
[#24]
Why should we or even address any point you.ve made. Why should Op have to tell anyone not to opine.
I'm sure several official investigations have what you need so why are you here? Just to be a something. Trying to be relevant. Then quit trying to do it in a memorial thread.Please start your own. Now please get out. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 6:02:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Of course there are lessons to be learned and those of us who go in to harms way have discussed them at length. This is neither the time, place, or audience for that. Right now can we just focus on remembering the hereos we've lost? Have some discretion ffs.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:09:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their resting place... http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/pdenonville/6B6B9E3F-F574-4CEE-9AFC-5C5BE7F56564_zpsybgav7fb.jpg What a fitting memorial. My dad was a Captain in the Fire Department. Firemen are a very tight knit family. My condolences to the families of the fire fighters lost that day. |
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