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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:01:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looked like he gave him a good thrashing...because the guy was little and he could. If it was a normal sized guy he probably would have never done that first push...he just knew he was going to sent the little shit flying backwards, so he did it. Little shit has probably been picked on his whole life for being a genetic pile of shit, and reacted. After the hulk smash, CO thought it was really easy and kind of fun (like dwarf tossing) so he did another. Wow you have the ability to get into peoples minds 
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:02:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Looks like the set of Oz.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:04:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Watch again, inmate poked him in the chest and then was wagging his finger in his face. The officer pushed him away and the inmate came back swinging. Good slam IMO although the inmate never should have been an inmate based on his charges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
the con never touched him before the first blow. Watch again, inmate poked him in the chest and then was wagging his finger in his face. The officer pushed him away and the inmate came back swinging. Good slam IMO although the inmate never should have been an inmate based on his charges. I've been in Corrections now for almost 22 years and the CO was in the right. Little fellow got in the officers personal space and then assaulted him. In jail/prison the laying on of hands by an inmate, especially in that case is considered an assault. Perhaps I would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but when your in a direct supervision pod surrounded by all those inmates you can't take the chance and I won't second guess him. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:04:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:2nd body slam certainly gets your attention but the inmate made the decision to come back at the guard.
I like how the defense attorney says the guard was a football player, as if that has anything to do with what went on. As far as the guards size goes I was not aware that a confrontation between prison guards and inmates should only between two people of equal size to make it fair. I certainly hope the jury sees it for what it is. Size disparity most certainly has a lot to do with both what happened, and what is going to happen in court. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:05:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Everything through the first slam seemed okay to me, he should have restrained the inmate at that point. The second slam was going to far from my perspective, if I was there in the moment as the CO I may have done it though...tough to say.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:06:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, the little feller was down after the first body slam, the second was excessive. I say good slam for #1, bad slam for #2. agree 100% |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:06:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...........you can't take the chance and......... You can't take what chance? |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:07:01 AM EDT
[#8]
i figured that was this story, it's been in the news here all week. i hadnt seen a video until now. i was on the officers side, but now i think he may have been a tad excessive.
the prisoner def started that shit. the prisoner was obviously feeling like a billy badass and got in the officers face, the officer pushed him away and then he got back in his face and tried to punch him. he should have put him on the ground and been done with it. the second slam wasnt needed. the prisoner brought it on himself. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:07:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Size disparity most certainly has a lot to do with both what happened, and what is going to happen in court. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:2nd body slam certainly gets your attention but the inmate made the decision to come back at the guard.
I like how the defense attorney says the guard was a football player, as if that has anything to do with what went on. As far as the guards size goes I was not aware that a confrontation between prison guards and inmates should only between two people of equal size to make it fair. I certainly hope the jury sees it for what it is. Size disparity most certainly has a lot to do with both what happened, and what is going to happen in court. I've seen 4' 9" female inmates go totally ape shit and take on men twice their size FWIW. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:08:10 AM EDT
[#10]
Not guilty.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:08:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't take what chance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:...........you can't take the chance and......... You can't take what chance? Can you tell the future? |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:09:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta figure, if someone steps to a CO, they need to be put down hard. Otherwise the other mutts might start getting ideas. True. First slam was without a doubt justified. Second slam looked like the guy was out cold already. After the fact reviewing the tape it seems unnecessary, but under the circumstances I would not even take that to a grand jury. It was close enough to the attack to be considered self defense, you don't have to wait and see if the attacker is unconscious or just playing possum. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:10:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you tell the future? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:...........you can't take the chance and......... You can't take what chance? Can you tell the future? You can't take WHAT chance? WTF are you talking about? |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:11:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Bad things happen in jail. Don't go to jail. if you do, don't fuck with people.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:12:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't take WHAT chance? WTF are you talking about? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:...........you can't take the chance and......... You can't take what chance? Can you tell the future? You can't take WHAT chance? WTF are you talking about? Uh.......the chance that the inmate is going to get back up and continue the assault. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:12:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't take what chance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:...........you can't take the chance and......... You can't take what chance? That he or someone else jumps you when the mob sees the opportunity. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:13:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Why do people even give two shits what happened to this druggy con???
He picked a fight with a big dog and got smashed |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:15:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Uh.......the chance that the inmate is going to get back up and continue the assault. The guy was un-conscious, un-moving, out cold. He was no threat. We'll see when a verdict is reached. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:17:41 AM EDT
[#19]
I wouldn't be able to convict him. Disparity of force isn't really relevant in that context, the CO was surrounded and if it's true the other inmates were stirring the pot it could have turned into a mob beat down in seconds.
Would be interesting to know which slam did the damage, it may not even have been the second. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:18:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Use of Force in a detention environment is based upon:
14th Amendment Standard-Due Process-Shocks the Conscience Use of Force Test Parameters-This deals with "pre-trial detainees", example, arrested for DUI, etc.: (A) Does the Use of Force "shock the conscience" and therefore violate due process? (B) Answered by the following, based on the Porro v. Barnes court decision: 1. The relationship between the amount of force used and the need presented? 2. The extent of the injury inflicted? 3. The motives of the state officer? (C) The answers to the above are determined by referring back to the "Graham" questions. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:19:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Inmates reason for being in jail : McClain ? who had been in custody since May 28 on misdemeanor charges of possession of drug paraphernalia and consuming malt beverage on public property ? was taken to WakeMed, where he remained on life support until his death on June 17. Now he's dead. This bears repeating. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:20:36 AM EDT
[#22]
He was surrounded.........had to get it on.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:20:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guy was un-conscious, un-moving, out cold. We'll see once a verdict is determined. I bet the guard is convicted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:Uh.......the chance that the inmate is going to get back up and continue the assault. The guy was un-conscious, un-moving, out cold. We'll see once a verdict is determined. I bet the guard is convicted. Are you sooooooooooo sure that the officer knew that? That the inmate was "out cold" or perhaps waiting to get back up and continue the attack. As I stated earlier I probably would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but I wasn't there. I can from experience tell you what it's like to be surrounded by 69 other inmates when your involved in a one on one with an inmate and you quickly begin to fight for your life. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:21:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see a detention officer punch him in face and throw him to ground twice. Perp was definitely in officers personal space, but it looks like officer punched him without a good cause. The punch set off the chain of events. I see an officer assaulting then killing a guy.  Never worked in a direct supervision pod, have you? |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:21:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever been in a physical altercation? Once your adrenaline dumps you can't just turn it off. I feel the officer showed great restraint by stopping after the second slam. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering how little effort it took to shove him 10ft away, I see no reason for the head first body slam. Not to mention he looks to be unconscious for the second slam. Have you ever been in a physical altercation? Once your adrenaline dumps you can't just turn it off. I feel the officer showed great restraint by stopping after the second slam. Growing up in south alabama, I can tell you I've been in many, many physical altercations. It's the way of life down there. And I don't know about you, but I most certainly was able to just "turn it off" after I had a massive adrenaline dump. I think that is a matter of self discipline. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:21:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Little striped suit guy play stupid game,
he won the appropriate prize. If you are in jail/prison, don't get froggy with the COs. If you feeling froggy and the CO is a BIG dude and you are badly outmatched, don't jump! Zero fucks given. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:22:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Do Not Care.
Next. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:22:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This bears repeating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Inmates reason for being in jail : McClain ? who had been in custody since May 28 on misdemeanor charges of possession of drug paraphernalia and consuming malt beverage on public property ? was taken to WakeMed, where he remained on life support until his death on June 17. Now he's dead. This bears repeating. Not in GD. He was little, he was black, and he was a "doper"....end of story. Now I see why so many people assume conservatives are racist. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:24:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. First slam was without a doubt justified. Second slam looked like the guy was out cold already. After the fact reviewing the tape it seems unnecessary, but under the circumstances I would not even take that to a grand jury. It was close enough to the attack to be considered self defense, you don't have to wait and see if the attacker is unconscious or just playing possum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gotta figure, if someone steps to a CO, they need to be put down hard. Otherwise the other mutts might start getting ideas. True. First slam was without a doubt justified. Second slam looked like the guy was out cold already. After the fact reviewing the tape it seems unnecessary, but under the circumstances I would not even take that to a grand jury. It was close enough to the attack to be considered self defense, you don't have to wait and see if the attacker is unconscious or just playing possum. Maybe that's one thing that Nebraska does right. Any in custody death requires a grand jury. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:24:25 AM EDT
[#30]
The con came at the CO , with all the prisoners around I can see why he would want to quickly stop any threat . Can't say it was excessive with all the others milling around so close and apparently verbally egging on the attacker. No way I want to be a CO .
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:24:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not in GD. He was little, he was black, and he was a "doper"....end of story. Now I see why so many people assume conservatives are racist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Inmates reason for being in jail : McClain ? who had been in custody since May 28 on misdemeanor charges of possession of drug paraphernalia and consuming malt beverage on public property ? was taken to WakeMed, where he remained on life support until his death on June 17. Now he's dead. This bears repeating. Not in GD. He was little, he was black, and he was a "doper"....end of story. Now I see why so many people assume conservatives are racist. And none of the backstory matters in this use of force incident. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:24:37 AM EDT
[#32]
I used to work security and have been in situations where I was greatly outnumbered by "fine young urban types" who were sympathetic to a slime bag I was dealing with. Time flies by quick and it is scary as hell when the crowd is against you. The C.O. gets a pass in my book.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:26:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, the little feller was down after the first body slam, the second was excessive. I say good slam for #1, bad slam for #2. Initially this was my thought, but thats having the benefit of watching it after the fact. In that situation surrounded by all those guys and in as quick succession as the slams came, I would not convict the guy of anything. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:28:02 AM EDT
[#34]
And the problem is????? The guard went home that night, I am fine with that!
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:28:23 AM EDT
[#35]
Monday-morning quarterbacking is always fun. We have the luxury of being able to rewind the tape and watch it over and over before we decide what we would have done. The CO could have de-escalated the situation in any number of ways. He also could have maneuvered the pipsqueak around until they weren't standing smack dab in the middle of the dayroom whyere they were surrounded by potential bandwagon jumpers. Limiting the ways others could approach him would have limited his risk and therefore he wouldn't have had to use such overwhelming force to subdue the inmate.
Of course, what happened, happened, and that's all there is to it. In my own personal opinion, the inmate was subdued after the first bodyslam, and the officer should have just cuffed him at that point. CO's deal with these types of power struggles every day, and if this officer can't control his actions well enough to keep from killing inmates, then maybe he doesn't need to be a CO. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:28:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Inmate got in his face, he pushed the inmate away and the inmate attacked. Inmate gets dropped on floor twice and not beaten to a pulp. I don't see any criminal intent to kill the inmate, only subdue him quickly while in close proximity to other roaming inmates. Good. That's about it. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:29:26 AM EDT
[#37]
The 4th Amendment-as it pertains to Use of Force:
The Standard: "Objective Reasonableness" This amendment deals with "Free People Being Seized" Use of Force Test Parameters: (A) is the use of force "objectively reasonable" in light of the facts and the totality of the circumstances confronting the officer at the moment? (B) "Totality of the circumstances" is described by the answers to the following: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to the officers/others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest OR attempting to evade seizure by flight? 3. Are the circumstances tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving? 4. What is the severity of the crime at issue? (C) "Objective" defined: 1. Not what the officer believes or assumes. 2. Only what the officer knows at the moment force is used. 3. It presupposes that any other "reasonably prudent officer" would have done the same thing in those same circumstances. (D) "Reasonableness" is demonstrated by a proper balance between the- 1. Nature and Quality (How?) of the intrusion and the 2. Governmental Interests (Why?) behind the intrusion. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:29:44 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Are you sooooooooooo sure that the officer knew that? That the inmate was "out cold" or perhaps waiting to get back up and continue the attack. As I stated earlier I probably would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but I wasn't there. I can from experience tell you what it's like to be surrounded by 69 other inmates when your involved in a one on one with an inmate and you quickly begin to fight for your life. I don't deal in trying to assume anything. I've watched the video, and seen what the jury will see. That's all I'm going by. I see an un-conscious person being picked up and slammed a 2nd time. If the guard couldn't see that the guy was out cold, he's a fucking retard. Let's look at it this way. If you shoot someone in self-defense, and they are down and out on the ground, not moving, what happens if you shoot again, killing them? A person either does or does not represent a threat. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:29:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Not guilty.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:30:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looked like he gave him a good thrashing...because the guy was little and he could. If it was a normal sized guy he probably would have never done that first push...he just knew he was going to sent the little shit flying backwards, so he did it. Little shit has probably been picked on his whole life for being a genetic pile of shit, and reacted. After the hulk smash, CO thought it was really easy and kind of fun (like dwarf tossing) so he did another.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:31:41 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like the set of Oz. "As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her, and she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead." |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:31:44 AM EDT
[#42]
If I was on the jury, I would no bill for that.
The guy on the phone, not a single shit was given that day. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:32:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't deal in trying to assume anything. I've watched the video, and seen what the jury will see. That's all I'm going by. I see an un-conscious person being picked up and slammed a 2nd time. Let's look at it this way. If you shoot someone in self-defense, and they are down and out on the ground, not moving, what happens if you shoot again, killing them? A person either does or does not represent a threat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:Are you sooooooooooo sure that the officer knew that? That the inmate was "out cold" or perhaps waiting to get back up and continue the attack. As I stated earlier I probably would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but I wasn't there. I can from experience tell you what it's like to be surrounded by 69 other inmates when your involved in a one on one with an inmate and you quickly begin to fight for your life. I don't deal in trying to assume anything. I've watched the video, and seen what the jury will see. That's all I'm going by. I see an un-conscious person being picked up and slammed a 2nd time. Let's look at it this way. If you shoot someone in self-defense, and they are down and out on the ground, not moving, what happens if you shoot again, killing them? A person either does or does not represent a threat. "Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly Evolving" |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:32:26 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not in GD. He was little, he was black, and he was a "doper"....end of story. Now I see why so many people assume conservatives are racist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Inmates reason for being in jail : McClain ? who had been in custody since May 28 on misdemeanor charges of possession of drug paraphernalia and consuming malt beverage on public property ? was taken to WakeMed, where he remained on life support until his death on June 17. Now he's dead. This bears repeating. Not in GD. He was little, he was black, and he was a "doper"....end of story. Now I see why so many people assume conservatives are racist. I guess the black guard was also. Not guilty. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:32:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her, and she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the set of Oz. "As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her, and she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead." 
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:32:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been in Corrections now for almost 22 years and the CO was in the right. Little fellow got in the officers personal space and then assaulted him. In jail/prison the laying on of hands by an inmate, especially in that case is considered an assault. Perhaps I would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but when your in a direct supervision pod surrounded by all those inmates you can't take the chance and I won't second guess him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
the con never touched him before the first blow. Watch again, inmate poked him in the chest and then was wagging his finger in his face. The officer pushed him away and the inmate came back swinging. Good slam IMO although the inmate never should have been an inmate based on his charges. I've been in Corrections now for almost 22 years and the CO was in the right. Little fellow got in the officers personal space and then assaulted him. In jail/prison the laying on of hands by an inmate, especially in that case is considered an assault. Perhaps I would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but when your in a direct supervision pod surrounded by all those inmates you can't take the chance and I won't second guess him. Why would you be alone in a pod if its such a bad idea? |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:33:29 AM EDT
[#47]
Good slam, but the second one is on the edge, IMO. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:34:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you be alone in a pod if its such a bad idea? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
the con never touched him before the first blow. Watch again, inmate poked him in the chest and then was wagging his finger in his face. The officer pushed him away and the inmate came back swinging. Good slam IMO although the inmate never should have been an inmate based on his charges. I've been in Corrections now for almost 22 years and the CO was in the right. Little fellow got in the officers personal space and then assaulted him. In jail/prison the laying on of hands by an inmate, especially in that case is considered an assault. Perhaps I would have stopped after the first horizontal stun but when your in a direct supervision pod surrounded by all those inmates you can't take the chance and I won't second guess him. Why would you be alone in a pod if its such a bad idea? There's a great deal of direct supervision pods in detention facilities around the country. One can be in there their entire 8 hour shift by themselves. |
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:35:45 AM EDT
[#49]
No problem here, keep walking.
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Posted: 12/12/2013 7:36:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not guilty. |
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