You mean like your buddy Kar98 does right here in this thread ?





Which was a response to Kar's post here.






Funny how you two forget this when its applied to you and what your interested in.
And no one has
called you anything "yet". Lets see who starts the name calling.
When it does start, it will be just another
signal of your frustration and eventually you'll be
saved since the thread will eventually be locked.

Since some of you are never going to let go of hating
Israel for this attack.
Make sure you spread your blind hatered equally toward
yourself or ourselves/our Government for doing nothing.
Here is something I found that no one here has brought up yet.


[url]http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/[/url]


So ask as well "why did our government just stand by
and do nothing [b]again[/b]"?
Spread your hate evenly is all Im saying.
If your so outraged then you should be outraged
at our government for sending the ship
in harms way and letting them die !
Some of you are being Hypocrites.

Ooh I see.
Can someone give me a better answer ?
Hannah_Reitsch or Kar98, are you two still with us here ?

Israeli Attack on USS Liberty was Deliberate
From Navy Times April 22, 2002. [i]By: James Ennes (Officer Of the Deck during the June 8, 1967 attack)[/i]

Survivors of the June 1967 Israeli attack on the U.S. intelligence ship Liberty find is sad that some Americans can argue endlessly that the incident was a tragic accident and not the deliberate attack on a known American ship.

On that day, we felt secure after 13 low reconnaissance orbits by Israeli aircraft, our supposed friends. Our intercept operators heard pilots reporting we were American.

I was relieved of the conn as the attacking jets approached and was severely wounded by the first rocket salvo. I was lying on a stretcher in a starboard passageway when the torpedo exploded.

I recall the warning the torpedo boats were approaching – followed by the explosion, the ship lifting away from the blast, then settling back to starboard – and the very real fear that is would settle until it rolled over and sank.

Moments later the torpedo boats approached within 50 feet of the ship. One boat stopped alongside and trained a heavy machine gun on a man standing alone on a hatch cover on the main deck screaming obscenities. The boatmen did not fire.

Then the board moved to within 50 feet of the fantail where the ship displayed its name in large letters in English and its hull numbers in even larger letters. The boatmen clearly examined those markings and hardly can have failed to see other distinctive markings and the American flag flying from the mast.

Israel claims it was at that point that Israelis offerd help and further claims that boatmen never fired after the torpedo explosion. But that is not true.

Survivors recall the torpedo boats then circled the ship, firing at anything that moved. Men on deck were fired upon as they tried to help their wounded shipmates. Firefighters saw their fire hoses punctured by machine gun fire. At one point, the boatmen concentrated their fire near the waterline amidships, presumably seeking out the boilers.

Forty minutes after the torpedo explosion, the boats drew closer and methodically machine-gunned three life rafts we had launched in response to orders to prepare to abandon ship.

Their excuse? The Israelis claim the mistakenly plotted our speed at 32 knots, marking us as a warship suitable for attack. We were moving at only 5 knots, and we were more than 30 miles away, double their 16 mile radar horizon.

The Israelis claim the offers on two torpedo boats mistook the Liberty for a 40-year-old out-of-service Egyptian horse transport. Israeli naval officers tell me that story is an embarrassment. It should be. It is unbelievable.

Despite these things, a few Americans seem to accept the preposterous claim that a tiny motor torpedo boat can have a 30-mile radar horizon, can miscalculate a target’s speed by 500 percent, can mistake a clearly marked 10,000 ton U.S. ship a mile away for an ancient 2,640-ton Egyptian horse carrier, can fail to recognize an oversized American flag from as close as 50 feet and can then continue to fire on that target from close range for another 40 minutes before suddenly recognizing it as American after learning that 6th fleet jets were on the way.

Survivors cannot accept that. The typical Israeli reaction is that we are liars or anti-Semites, which of course we are not. We are American sailors honestly reporting an act of treachery at sea.

Paul said "The only question that remains is why they deliberately attacked a US ship in international waters."

ETH said "No, Sir, no, Sir. The only question that remains is for those of you who believe the attack to have been deliberate, why would Israel deliberately attack a US ship in international waters?"

I'm not an English major but could you point out the difference between "why they deliberately attacked a US ship in international waters." and "why would Israel deliberately attack a US ship in international waters?"

ilikelegs said the United States Government stood by
and watched and did nothing.
In fact they diliberatly called back the planes
and turned the aircraft carriers around.

Why aren't you slamming our great government as well ?

John F. Mahoney

Memorandum To:  AMEU From: Admiral Thomas H.
Moorer Subject:  Attack on the USS Liberty—June 8, 1967 Date:  June 8, 1997

I have never believed that the attack on the USS Liberty was a case of mistaken identity.  That is ridiculous.  I have flown over the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, thousands of hours, searching for ships and identifying all types of ships at sea.

The Liberty was the ugliest, strangest looking ship in the U.S. Navy.

As a communications intelligence ship, it was sprouting every kind of antenna.  It looked  like a lobster with all those projections moving every which way. Israel knew perfectly well that the ship was American. After all, the Liberty's American flag and markings were in full view in perfect visibility for the Israeli aircraft that overflew the ship eight times over a period of nearly eight hours prior to the attack.

I am confident that Israel knew the Liberty could intercept radio messages from all parties and potential parties to the ongoing war, then in its fourth day, and that Israel was preparing to seize the Golan Heights from Syria despite President Johnson's known opposition to such a move.  I think they realized that if we learned in advance of their plan, there would be a tremendous amount of negotiating between Tel Aviv and Washington.

And I believe Moshe Dayan concluded that he could prevent Washington from becoming aware of what Israel was up to by destroying the primary source of acquiring that information - the USS Liberty.

The result was a wanton sneak attack that left 34 American sailors dead and 171 seriously injured. What is so chilling and cold-blooded, of course, is that they could kill as many Americans as they did in confidence that Washington would cooperate in quelling any public outcry. I have to conclude that it was Israel's intent to sink the Liberty and leave as few survivors as possible.  Up to the point where the torpedo boats were sent in, you
could speculate on that point.

You have to remember that the Liberty was an
intelligence ship, not a fighting ship, and its
only defensive weapons were a pair of 50-caliber
machine guns both aft and on the forecastle.
There was little the men could do to fight off the air assault from Israeli jets that pounded the Liberty with bombs, rockets, napalm and machine gun fire for 25 minutes.

With the Liberty riddled with holes, fires
burning, and scores of casualties, three Israeli
torpedo boats closed in for the kill.  The second of three torpedoes ripped through a compartment at amidships, drowning 25 of the men in that section.

---more---

---cont.---

Then the torpedo boats closed to within 100 feet
of the Liberty to continue the attack with cannons and machine guns, resulting in further casualties.

It is telling, with respect to whether total
annihilation was the intent, that the Liberty crew has reported that the torpedo boats' machine guns also were turned on life rafts that were deployed into the Mediterranean as well as those few on deck that had escaped damage.

As we know now, if the rescue aircraft from U.S.
carriers had not been recalled, they would have
arrived at the Liberty before the torpedo attack, reducing the death toll by 25.  The torpedo boat commanders could not be certain that Sixth Fleet aircraft were not on the way and this might have led to their breaking off the attack after 40 minutes rather than remaining to send the Liberty and its crew of 294 to the bottom.

Congress to this day has failed to hold formal
hearings for the record on the Liberty affair.
This is unprecedented and a national disgrace.

I spent hours on the Hill giving testimony after
the USS Pueblo, a sister ship to the Liberty, was seized by North Korea.  I was asked every
imaginable question, including why a carrier in
the area failed to dispatch aircraft to aid the
Pueblo.  In the Liberty case, fighters were put in the air - not once, but twice.

They were ordered to stand down by Secretary of
Defense McNamara and President Johnson for reasons the American public deserves to know.

The captain and crew of the Liberty, rather than
being widely acclaimed as the heroes they most
certainly are, have been silenced, ignored,
honored belatedly and away from the cameras, and
denied a history that accurately reflects their
ordeal.

I was appalled that six of the dead from the
Liberty lay under a tombstone at Arlington
Cemetery that described them as having "died in
the eastern Mediterranean," as if disease rather
than Israeli intent had caused their deaths.  The Naval Academy failed to record the name of Lt. Stephen Toth in Memorial Hall on the grounds that he had not been killed in battle.  I intervened and was able to reverse the apparent idea that dying in a cowardly, one-sided attack by a supposed ally is somehow not the same as being killed by an avowed enemy.

Commander McGonagle's story is the stuff of naval tradition.  Badly wounded in the first air attack, lying on the deck and losing blood, he refused any treatment that would take him from his battle station on the bridge.  He continued to direct the ship's defense, the control of flooding and fire, and by his own example inspired the survivors to heroic efforts to save the ship.  He did not relinquish his post until hours later, after
having directed the crippled ship's navigation to a rendezvous with a U.S. destroyer and final
arrival in Malta.

---more---

---cont.---

I must have gone to the White House 15 times or
more to watch the President personally award the
Congressional Medal of Honor to Americans of
special valor.  So it irked the hell out of me
when McGonagle's ceremony was relegated to the
obscurity of the Washington Navy Yard and the
medal was presented by the Secretary of the Navy. This was a back-handed slap.  Everyone else received their medal at the White House.
President Johnson must have been concerned about
the reaction of the Israeli lobby.

The Liberty Veterans Association deserves the
encouragement of everyone who wants the facts of
the Liberty incident revealed and proper homage
paid to the men who lost their lives, to their
families, and to the survivors.  I have attended
many of their reunions and am always impressed
with the cohesion of the Liberty family.  They
arrive in town with their whole entourage -
grandmas, grandpas, grandchildren.  They promote
the memory of the boys who were killed and I
respect them for that.  They are mostly from small country towns, probably a lot like Eufaula, Alabama, where I grew up, and they represent the basic core of America that has enabled us to be a superpower for so long.  These are the kind of people who will make certain that our liberty and freedom survive if fighting is what it takes.

Thanks Eric,
I wanted to point out with this that our government
leaders are cowards and throughout history they
have turned their backs on our soldiers many times.
In every conflict they have sent our troops into
harms way and many times they have left them to
their own fate. They have used them a guinea pigs in experiments,
as pawns, as bait, but no one want to bring this up.
Its only important when the Israeli's kill our soldiers.

I would like to hear if any of the Jew bashers and some of
our ex soldiers on the board have a problem with this.

You should hate our government [b]more[/b] then by your own account.
Our government has purposely kill more of its own
soldiers deliberately than the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.