This is from memory, so...

 If you want an education, Join the USAF
 If you want to learn a trade, Join the Army
 If you want to sleep in a clean bed at night, Join my beloved Navy. (Deep down, I love those guys.)
 If you want to learn to fight, join the Marines.

 A recurring thing I see from anyone advocating Army, is perks and bennies, such as rank attainment, creature comforts, better equipment, housing, education, etc. That's fine. I have no qualms with that, and have an honest respect for any soldier, because it all comes down to personal honor and self betterment while serving your country. High ideals that can't be argued with, so inter-service rivalry is just simply that. Again, with that bottom line thing; You become a Marine, and it's a stand apart accomplishment that rates accolades and admiration from just about anyone, here and abroad. Why? Because the Marines do more with less, and like it that way. Because they are first to fight, and have an enormously long track record with a whole bunch of marks in the win column attesting to that. Because the Marines, every one of them, is a rifleman first. Bar none. Because the Marines don't overspecialize with overly complex methods of mayhem; When it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight, USMC. The Marine Corps is plain and simply a highly dedicated fighting force that likes to fight, is good at it, and is called upon to do so often. Marines are killers, to a man, and every one of them can be called up to get into the thick of it. A long, long tradition of Naval infantry.
 You get the idea... Again, I have nothing but high regard for Army. They do it differently, but without all those boats. And unless you were to specifically ask for 11Bravo, Ranger, Airborne, etc., there is a very likely chance that you could find yourself assigned to a billet that's almost no different than a regular job, such as hotel clerk, travel agent, or the like, except everyone has short hair, dresses alike, and occasionally picks up a gun for training, maybe.
 Enough for now... What you really need to do is get some face-to-face time with several warm bodies who've already done it. Go on down to the American Legion or VFW, start buying the regulars some drinks, and make a nuisance of yourself with questions. They won't mind, really... in fact, they'll be competing for your attention.

 Best of luck,

J_Money;
First off I admire you for choosing the military as start of your adult life.  Enlisted and NCOs are the guys who really get things done. It is fine and noble profession and yet while there is 4 different services they all protect freedom that every American enjoys and usually takes for granted. I was going to join out of high school but I still had braces and they didn't have orthos at basic (not sure if they do now) so I went to school and joined Air Force ROTC. Every service has its own traditions and spirit it is all just a matter of what you want to do.
The Air Force has many opportunities and while we take some flak for being the young service and what. There is Air Force Special Operations command which contains the combat controllers, pararescue, gunships, spec warfare c-130s, HH-60 and MH-53 sq's. I've met some of these guys and they are pretty bad. The controllers and para guys go through some intense training (HALO, SCUBA, combat arms, air traffic control and airstrike calls).  Your best bet is to go to the .mil sites (the official service website) and look at the career field assignments, requirements and duties.
Good Luck

Interesting that someone else would post about this topic as I'm considering the USMC currently but want to know if it's the way to go and what MOS I should look into if I do decide to enlist.

Some info about me.  I'm 27 years old.  No prior military service.  Closest I ever got to it was being in the US Naval Sea Cadet Corps from the time I was 12 until I was 18, then continued on as an adult volunteer with the program for 3 more years.  I've got my Associate's in Law Enforcement and a Bachelor's in Criminal Justice.  I took the ASVAB last year because I was thinking of joining the USN Reserve, but changed my mind when the recruiter couldn't guarantee me any sort of OCS.  Never found out my actual score on ASVAB other than the recruiter telling me I "aced it".  Figured I'd look into this because I'm not having much luck getting into the law enforcement field, and was recently laid off from the IT field.

Basically, how is the USMC these days?  Does the college degree guarantee you OCS?  How many years is the committment these days?  My career goal is to eventually become a law enforcement officer.  Am thinking USMC Intelligence as an MOS.

Sorry for all the questions.  I know it'd be easier to just ask a recruiter but I figure you guys are more likely to tell the truth and I don't have to take phone calls from ya'll every other day trying to get me to sign the papers.

J_MONEY:

You've got some good advise here, and some of it is just interservice rivalry chestbeating.  It never makes sense that the Army and Marines pick on each other.  They're built for totally different tasks.  How about the U.S. Marines versus the Royal British Marines??  THAT would be a sensible argument!  

This website is right up your alley:
[url]http://forums.about.com/ab-usmilitary/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E[/url]
and
[url]http://www.usmilitary.about.com/[/url]

Trust me, these websites will answer most if not all of your questions.

As far as college goes, its not so much about whether you go or not, its what your degree is in.  Some go to college and get absolutely useless degrees that will never help them find a job (called 'party' degrees because you can party and still pass your classes).  For example, a friend of mine got a bachelor's degree in art history.  He is now waiting tables.  Another friend's degree was a bachelor's in psychology - she now works in retail.  Don't fall into that trap.

There will be pro's AND con's whether you enlist first then go to college or vise versa, though its a lot easier to go to college right after high school than it is to wait.  Just pick a good major: Engineering (my degree is in Electrical Engineering), Computer Science, anything medical, etc...

MARINES

Why ? Because if you get into any kind of Jam you want to have good Air and Ground Support to back you up.
The Marines do a really good job in coordinating with Navy Aircraft and the Marine Aviators view themselves as Grunts first.
Whereas in the Army, they don't coordinate as well with the Air Force.

Also the Marines teach you how to shoot (as well as expect you to shoot) out past 500 meters.

Getting basic training in the Marines is tougher..but it is well worth the challenge.
I went to college later in life, and got a Physics degree.
But if I had to do it all over again..I would choose Marines, do my hitch and THEN go to college.

But whatever choice you make..you will always have some regrets...that's just how life is.
Whatever you do in life..live every moment as if it is your last.

Carpe Diem!

Well, I'm no [i]war[/i]-[i]ri[/i]-[i]or[/i], but, truth-be-known, if you pick the [u]right[/u] major, you'll bypass about 90-95% of the BS (Sometimes all of it), since you won't have time for it. Colleges know this, and certain fields are more concentrated in real-world subjects, as opposed to being peppered with PC indoctrination courses that garner so much controversey.

If you [i]think[/i] you might want to get your feet wet, but not soaked, try a reserve stint. You can always transition to full active duty [i]at any time[/i] if you decide you really like it. Meanwhile, you can also take a class or 2 in rewarding, challenging fields like engineering, biomed, CS (my fav.), etc. that lead to good careers. Also - community colleges are the [u]best[/u] [u]deal[/u] for the money. Pick a good one & you'll get at least as good an (often better) education in lower div. stuff as what 4-year colleges offer, only at a much better bargain. The you can transfer to a 4-year. Meanwhile, you can serve in the reserves, get a taste for military life, and maybe make it a career if you still like it.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against enlistment. But, I know too many people who've gotten burned. Getting it in writing never seemed to make a difference to them. When you sign your contract, you'll have to choose more than 1 option. If it goes your way, then you get your 1st choice. But otherwise, you might have to settle for 2nd. Or 3rd, or...who knows? You become property of the U.S. Gov't when you sign, so you won't have any [i]right[/i] to your 1st choice. You will have the right to go where the gov't decides to put you.

An important, and often underestimated, issue you might want to follow up on is [u]visual acuity rating standard[/u] for the MOS's you desire. "High-speed" fields like aviation, SF/SPECWAR, etc. tend to have tighter standards in this area, and a lot of candidates get scrubbed for this issue alone. Take it seriously - it is one of the biggest reasons candidates get washed. If you're naturally 20/20, then you're one of the lucky few. Otherwise, get an optometric/opthalmologic exam to find out where you stand. This one is the main reason I've never jumped into active duty service. If you have to ride a desk, better off to do so in the civilian world, IMO.

Whatever you decide - good luck in your endeavors.
[heavy]

Semper Fi. That's all I have.



Come to think of it, though, it's [i]not[/i] that easy to go active once you're in the reserve, because it's hard enough for locked-on, good-to-go active to re-up. So they jealously guard those slots.

My advice?  Go to college.  Then if you really want to "serve your country" do it as an officer.

In terms of which branch of the service, here's my choices in order:

1. Air Force
2. Navy
3. Army
4. Coast Guard
5. Don't join the service.
6. Marines

My daughter married a marine gunnery sargeant whose MOS has something to do with communications and computers.  I gave him a Windows box and he couldn't identify the Task Bar.  In fact I gave them 3 different PCs over the years and he broke them all in short order.  And when I say "broke" he broke them only like a marine could break them - the disk was crashed, the motherboard was fried, the floppy was jammed, the door on the CD-ROM was broken off, the mouse was smashed, and the keyboard had keys missing - and this was all on one machine!!!

My son-in-law is a complete drooling moron, but he's head of the computer shop.  I went on base to pick him up (he couldn't keep his car running, either) and saw he was the Einstein in the shop.

My grandchildren are going to be retarded and have to ride to school on the short bus and they'll be able to compete in the Special Olympics.

If this sounds like you, join the Marines.

In reality the minimal acceptable standards for intelligence testing for the service only the air force is higher than the Marine Corps.

Combat MOS = 2% cool stuff, 98% stupid sh!t.

Think long and hard about your enlistment.  Chances are you WILL end up in harms way for some dumb ass political reason.  

My 2 cents..
You will spend a few years in the Army,Navy or Air Force.
You will be a MARINE FOREVER!
SF!

As PBS newsman Jim Lehrer put it, "I learned that Marines never leave their dead and wounded behind, officers always eat last, the U.S. Army is chickenshit in combat, the Navy is worse, and the Air Force is barely even on our side."

Some of the sharpest guys I know are jarheads.  My biggest regret in life is that I didn't join the USMC as a young man.

don't listen to the people on here.  All your going to get is inter service rivalry.  You'll get GO ARMY! or GO MARINE! or NAVY IS FOR PUSSIES! or F**K YOU ARMY BOY! blah blah blah.  Unfortuantly you are going to need to decide for yourself.  Do you want to be stuck in the Marines or Army or whereever you are as a boring gate guard, working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and blame it on some advice you read on the internet from a guy you never met?  I am not going to give you advice on which service.  maybe you can get a deal?  When I was in basic, there were people with guarnteed duty stations or ranger school (I went Army)  I am sure the MArines have something like it.  
Truth be told, all the service have honorable histories, the Army has Battle of the Bulge, Normandy.  The MArines have Iwo Jima, lots of the Pacific, Navy has Midway, etc.  So I wouldn't be concerned about their histories.  I did find it funny that someone would claim the Pacific was worse than Europe, do you think some Marine at Iwo Jima thought some Army guy at Bastonge had it better?  Were they saying, "Gee, I wish I could have been in the PAcific/Europe?  Those Germans/Japanese are so much better!"

ohh yeah another interesting point to mention that I just thought you might want to know about, and I tell you in the form of a question. you wouldn't happen to get sea sick now would you? because do you know how a large portion of the marines travel from place to place. amphib battle groups. meaning lots and lots of time on a navy ship pitching and listing out in the persian gulf (substitute any other god forsaken body of water).  

personally I am not an army person for the benefits, the reason I am an army person is because I want to deffend my country in the way I think I fit into best and for me that is the army. besides I like the army class a's better [:D] give me black over shit brown anyday.

personally like I said earlier I like the special operations options in the army better than the marines (force rocon are not part of socom by the way).

ps what do you call and 18 year old marine private?...........  sniper bait

ps again the army chief of staff eric (the dick) shinsheki is on his way out real soon. shinsheki is the dumbass who came up with the whole army black beret and screwed the rangers, plus he's also responsible for that &%$#% &@$!# *&^&% damned army of one slogan. although he is actually ranger qualified oddly enough he is primarily an armor dude as are most of his appointed retards, which is great exept all his initiatives are counter productive to the newer lighter faster army (hense the killing of the crusader). once this benedict arnold is gone the army will be in much better shape.

AH1Z
You need to learn what you are talking about before you spew so much misinformation.  

You know STRLN, and you other USMC guys, I don't think he asked about stories to run down other branches, but some of you have done that.

If he wants to join, do it by looking at all 4 Branches, the Coast Guard, and reserves. See which one fits best with what you want to do.

All right now that I got that out of the way. The USMC fought 1 battle from start to finish in the Pacific in WWII. Their longest battle was something like 10 days. Every other battle the captured enough beach so that the US Army could come ashore and do the serious knuckle bashing.

Yes STRLN the Germans would surrender, then again the Germans also had REAL tanks, artillery, and personal weapons. One of the things Germans wouldn't do is run at machine gun positions. Not true with the IJN/IJA forces that seemed determined to commit suicide. Germany also did a much better job of keeping it's forces supplied with food and bullets.

History of the 3d Infantry Division
"Rock Of The Marne!"  

The 3d Infantry Division was activated at Camp Greene, North Carolina, in November 1917. Eight months later, at midnight on July 14, 1918 the Division went into combat for the first time.
During World War I, as a member of the American Expeditionary Force to Europe the Division earned its name as the "Rock of the Marne," when surrounding units retreated, the 3d Infantry Division remained rock solid. Although the stand was quite successful, we paid a high price. General "Black Jack" Pershing said it best, when he called the Division’s performance one of the most brilliant of our military annals.

World War II was to add even greater glory to the Marne Legend. As the sole United States fighting force for 531 continuous days of combat, the 3d Infantry Division fought in places like Casablanca, Anzio, Tome, the Vosges Mountains, Colmar, the Siegfried Line, Palermo, Nurnberg, Munich, Berchtesgaden, and Salzburg.

3d Infantry Division soldiers earned two medals of Honor during World War I, and 36 more during World War II. The most decorated soldier in World War II was among them: Lieutenant Audie Murphy, serving with the 15th Infantry in Italy and France.

During the Korean War, the Division, being known as the "Fire Brigade", received ten Battle Stars. The Korean War also added eleven more Medal of Honor winners, bringing the total to forty-nine.

In April 1958, the Marne Division returned to Germany to secure the defense of Western Europe and ultimately win the Cold War.

In November of 1990, soldiers of the 3d Infantry Division were once again called into action. Following Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, more than 6,000 Marne men and women deployed with Operation Desert Storm as part of the Allied Coalition which brought a swift end to Saddam Hussien’s military aggression in the Gulf region. Nearly 1,000 soldiers deployed to Southeastern Turkey and Northern Iraq to Operation Provide Comfort to Kurdish Refugees. Almost 100 were part of Task Force Victory, which began the task of rebuilding Kuwait.

A new chapter of Marne history begins with the activation of the 3d Infantry Division (Mechanized) at Fort Stewart and in the Coastal Empire.

The 3D Infantry Division Song

"DOG FACE SOLDIER"

I Wouldn't Give A Bean
To Be A Fancy Pants Marine
I'd Rather Be A
Dog Face Soldier Like I Am

I Wouldn't Trade My Old OD's
For All The Navy's Dungarees
For I'm The Walking Pride
Of Uncle Sam

On Army Posters That I Read
It Says "Be All That You Can"
So They're Tearing Me Down
To Build Me Over Again

I'm Just A Dog Face Soldier
With A Rifle On My Shoulder
And I Eat Raw Meat
For Breakfast E'V'RY Day

So Feed Me Ammunition
Keep Me In The Third Division
Your Dog Face Soldier's A-Okay

I have really not run down the army, although I can honestly say I have probably done more with the army than most soldiers have done with the Marines.  You might want to talk to your retired solider comrade who claimed that the Marines were legends in their own mind, and we were all PR.  Also the Banzai charge went away for the Japanese forces latter in the war, all the same it was used against both the Army and the Marines, but the only time a US unit broke was a army RCT on Siapan, that is how 3rd BN 10th Marine got there motto 7 for 1.  When a Banzai charge broke through the army formation in front of the Battalion, the artillerymen of the Battalion fought in close combat with Japanese, and for every dead Marine in the US position they found 7 dead Japanese.

Sorry STRLN, but a lot of USMC are legends in their own minds, so are a lot of USA, USN, USAF. Let's face it most combat recently hasn't been exactly an even fight, or lasted very long. The last "combat vets" served in Southeast Asia.

I know I was only involved in the battle of boredom and monotony, which I eventually won.

That is not to take away from anyone that was in Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Kuwait, Serbia, or any of the other recent operations that the US get's into.

My hat's of to all of you, All I care is that you were in a branch that started US. But these recent conflicts are much different than the wars the US has fought in the past.

A lot of this "my branch is toughter than your branch......" is so theoritical it's silly, and most of it is based on events that happened 50-100 years ago.

If you serve it doesn't matter which branh you are in as long as you serve honorably.

odobo wrote:

HAHAHAHA!!!  You're hilarious!

After reading OLY-M4gery's posts, you wonder if he has ever read any historical accounts of the Pacific Campaign fighting in WWII.

J_MONEY, read the book "BREAKOUT" by Martin Russ to get a good comparative report on USMC vs USA battle doctrine.  You can read up on Guadalcanal fighting by USA and USMC too.

Of course, there have been changes since the 1940's-50's, but I think the similarities are still there.  The Marines developed the new MARPAT cammo to make them harder to see so they can kill their enemies more effectively.  The army is passing out black berets to try to build some esprit de corps.

I was USN - one of the bases I was at had USA personnel on it from time to time, and there were always USMC personnel there.  You could tell who was who from a f*cking mile away.  I call 'em like I see 'em.

Ask Hackworth (combat decorated USA retired) what he thinks of the USMC vs USA debate.

There are some shitbird Marines and many razor sharp soldiers, but I firmly stand by my above statements.

BTW - I salute anyone who served or who will serve in ANY branch, period! - especially combat arms in the USA or USMC.

Best of luck to you, J_MONEY, and I thank you for your service.

If you want to become a member of the most elite fighting force in the United States Armed Forces, join the Marines.

Remember this...although there are great units in the Army such as the Rangers and the D-Boys, in the Air Force such as the Para Rescue guys, and the Navy SEALS; for a large organization, there is no other like the Marine Corps.  Once a Marine, always a Marine...forever a member of the Elite Corps.

The Marines derive the respect they get from the entire world because of the legacy left by those Marines who have gone before.  They still strike fear into the hearts of any potential enemy.  Their traditions and history are legendary and not at all lost on the world at large.

The United States Marine Corps is truly a Band of Brothers.

Thank you Tate, Yes I did read about WW-II Pacific battles. So I do know a few things about the Pacific War.

I know that they were fighting on islands, and that the US stategy was to cut supply lines then attack.

In most battles the USMC forces would land, and have to fight for every inch of land. The IJN/IJA defenders were usually determined, but not exceptinally skilled. Often they had little food and ammo was in short supply. Their artillery was not as good as the US counterparts. IJA forces had only very light tanks, more like tracked armored cars. The IJA also had very few of those tanks. In most battles after the USMC secured a good sized beachhead they were relieved by USA troops that had heavier weapons. The USMC troops woulf refit and hit another island.

Iwo Jima was much different than previous attacks. The IJ forces were better supplied and dug in in force. The USMC fought that battle from begining to end.

Does that I mean I don;t think the USMC had it tough in WWII? NO, they got put in to those islands first because every person that hit the beach had to be a rifleman first. The US Army likes riflemen, but it also wants arty, armor, and a bunch of other "specialist" types that have great firepower but aren't well suited to being put on an unfriendly beach.

I do take objection to saying the USMC defeated the IJ forces. All armed service forces branches fought there.

I would also point out that the Pacific had lots of smaller battles, on islands, that had exact begining and ending dates.

The largest amphibious landing was where? and whose troops hit the beach? That's right Normandy and it was US Army troops. The next biggest amphip. ops. were probably Sicily, and Anzio. Again those landings involved Army troops.

The landings in Europe just meant we had troops in face to face contact with enemy troops, on the enemie home territory.

Wermarcht troops were some of the best soldiers on a tactical level until the end of the war. They were backed up with superb armor and artillery. That resulted in much different combat in Europe than in the Pacific.

But a lot of what this means is nothing, in many ways USMC v USA is just like a different version of my dad is tougher than yours.

Oly
That is very true that much if it boils down to "my dads tougher than yours."  But there are many in the army that cannot reconcile the fact that the Marine Corps as whole has higher standards than the army, we can are just smaller.  Those higher standards don't make us tougher, but contribute to what many consider an "elitist attitude" (which I never understand what was wrong with being an elite). Notice I said as a whole, there are those select organizations in the army that many often talk about, Rangers, SF CAG, etc, and want to make it out that that is the standard for the army, which it is not is well above the rest.

I have to make a comment about the Jim Lehrer quote:


                As PBS newsman Jim Lehrer put it, "I learned that Marines never leave their dead and wounded behind,officers always eat last, the U.S. Army is chickenshit in combat, the Navy is worse, and the Air Force is barely even on our side."

Remember a few things:

1.  The US Army fought the war in Europe in WWII.  They landed in Normandy and fought bravely in many battles.  

2.  There were more Army Air Corp killed bombing Germany than there were Marines killed in the Pacific.

3.  Without the bravery of the US Navy in WWII no Marine would have ever landed on any island in the Pacific.  The Japs would have blown them out of the water.

This whole fantasy thing that the Marines have about being "better" is a joke most the time.  When I was getting inducted into the Army in 1966 they did not have enough volunteers for the Marines.  They put draftees into the Marines based upon alphabetical listing of their last names.  So much for "The Few, The Proud, The Brave".  In Vietnam they were no better than the Army infantry units.  I have great respect for the Marines but they are no "better" than most other American fighting men.

I'll close with a short personal recollection.  In July of 1968 I was in transit on an Air Force base near Phu Bai in Vietnam.  That night there was a ground attack.  I saw the Marines guarding the perimeter run from the attack.  I saw several of them throw down their M-16s so they could run faster.  The attack was stoped by the secondary defense of Air Force personnel.  These were clerks, load masters, logistical people etc.  They held their ground while the Marines ran.  After seeing that thing that night I just smile whenever I hear an ex-Marine start his bullshit stuff.

J_ may I make a suggestion? Do some research on the founding father's intentions regarding the military. How is our Constitution supposed to be used in this regard? Now research how the military has been used in the last 150 years. Pay particular attention to operations since WW2. Do these use's conform to the intent of our founders? Have these use's REALLY been in our defense? Have many of them even been legal? Is our military being used to further an agenda that may not/should not be in our best interests as Americans and our traditional principles? We are all accountable/responsible for our actions/decisions. Ponder this one with care. Good luck!

Tinfoil aside,  make your plans by what you want to accomplish OUTSIDE of the military. Infantry was a lot of fun. Jump school, Ranger training, jungle warfare school, all were tough, but I was out of the combat MOS's by my third enlistment. I really didn't get serious about future planning until I went into the MP corps and went Army reserve. Here I sit now, in a barracks room at Ft Hood, in my 7th month of activation.  I received my 20 year letter 4 years ago, (i'm 44) and i'm  still at it. I can say that VERY VERY few people stay in this long, and the military today,  (all branches) bears very little resemblance to when I started. Bear one thing in mind if you go Army. The last 8 years have done a lot of damage. Missions have increased, and assets cut. You will be deployed,  probably back to back rotations. SchooL, marriage, family, will be extremely difficult, if not impossible in some units  (especially MP companies) You can plan on about 70% of your total military experience being deployed.  We are currently rotating Military Police units in  Afghanistan, Gitmo, (Heck there is more army andd air force there than Marines now) Kuwait, and Ft Hood. Half of these companies are reservist.  As for that Marine /Army thing,  I have known a lot of Marines. fought against Marine units in war games. Allright guys for the most part. After all, they come from the same place you do. I do have issue with the way Marines treat their people. I believe they care more for the image than for the actual person. These new uniforms for example. I had a Gunny and his CO tell me flat out the switch was because they didn't want to look like the army.  All the other reasons were just excuses. All that money spent when the average marine is hurting for training and functional equipment, just for an image.  It's no different than the beret fiasco with us.

Go back and read Sukebee's post, and follow his advice.

John
Your right, we don't want to look like the army, and the fact is many in the army don't want to look like the rest of the army either.  Hence the rangers, going to the tan beret when the army adopted their black beret, and don't even get started on the whole "fear badges" thing, about wanting to look different.  But the cost of MarPats is actually very little (the actual uniform cost about $2 less than a set of cammies), and since we don't allow DXing of cammies for new ones, the tax payers are bearing very little of the cost, if it had been another service, I would agree that the tax payers would be screwed by a re-issue of uniforms when serviceable one already were issued.
On the issue of training, the Marine Corps and the army have a different out look on what is required for training.  The army is much more of an accredited mind set and feels unless you have been to a formal school with a set POI that gets documented in you record book your not qualified to do anything, the Marine Corps on the other hand, has felt that put them in the field with someone who knows how to do it and they will learn.  In my opinion unfortunately the army mind set is starting to be felt in the Marine Corps.

Esprit de Corps.

That's what it comes down to.
In general, the Marines have more.
If you disagree, you're wrong.
Period.

Yes, there are units in all the services that have high levels of Esprit de Corps.
But as far as total service Esprit de Corps goes, there is no comparison.
None.

The only problem I have with other services is that, in general, they appear to be more messy, unkempt, lacking in discipline, and fatter.
Of course maybe I was was just at the wrong bases/forts.

Why is this even a question.  come on guyz  thats like compairing apples to oranges.

Marine corp  

[marines]

Johninaustin wrote:

and STLRN wrote:

I will state that this part of being a Marine is a financial hardship on the troops and asanine in my opinion.  Their out of pocket expenses are more for uniform items ect.  Government gets a great "bang for its buck", but the troops pay for it.

alright why don't you straighten me out. go for I would really like to know what you conscider disinformation.

so your saying that the marines are a the land legs of the navy (hmm remind me what does marine mean anyway).

ohh yeah why don't you do a little research. if you did you might find out that the marine's treated there spec ops people pretty decent in the post vietnam era (comparative to the army and navy anyway). and were not forced to join ussocom. they are still not members of us special operations command. look it up and prove me wrong.

please tell what information that I have "spewed" forth is incorrect.

Marines, MOS 8541 Scout/Sniper

If you always wanted to be a Marine, then do it.

I joined the Army, while all my friends joined the Marines.  We all served our country and ended up in the working world.  Bottom line, you will end up with some funny stories, some lessons learned, and the pride that comes from  knowing that you did your part.  

The Marines have a much better propaganda machine.  Ie, The Few, The Proud.  If calling yourself an "ex Marine" later in life is important, by all means, do it.

The blather about Marines being tougher is just boasting.  Any member of the armed forces who puts his life on the line for our country is hard core tough. (even the navy and airforce)
Bottom line, do what is important to you, because you will be risking YOUR life, so it must be worth it.  Good luck.

Stlrn,  it's true what you say,  but I was not refering to MOS producing schools,  but good old combat training. Esp. live fire. I cannot speak for any other regions,  but here I sit,  on Ft Hood. The biggest live fire and manuever training area this side of NTC. I've seen Army, Air Force reserve and Guard units from as far away as Michigan coming down here to train.  Heck even the Canadians are here. There are a goodly number of Marine reserve units in Texas. I haven't seen a one. It's not like they're going somewhere else, if you want to shoot anything bigger than a .30 cal this is one of only two places to do it. The sad fact of it is that they aren't training, except possibly at a small unit level. A reserve Gunny I have regular contact with hasn't been on a field problem in TWO YEARS!! Maybe they don't have the funds,  maybe there is some master plan that states they won't be needed. I consider it as shortchanging your people. As for the uniforms, forcing folks to buy something that is mandated for wear is practically criminal in my view. We're not talking a 12-dollar beret.(Which BTW is quickly becoming optional wear  as folks go back to the patrol cap)  Uniforms for a single person could run into the hundreds.      

"besides I like the army class a's better  give me black over shit brown anyday." Army class A are Green, they have a dress unifrom that is Blue Black but if you like either of them you are in a small portion of the society to include most of the army who wishes they would go back to the "Brown" uniforms you detest that they wore in WWII/  The Marine service As are OD with a tan shirt.

"shinsheki is the dumbass who came up with the whole army black beret and screwed the rangers, plus he's also responsible for that &%$#% &@$!# *&^&% damned army of one slogan."
That would be the SGTMAJ of the Army that came up with the Berets (he is also armor, and the Beret was used by armor before the Rangers adopted it) The "Army of One" came from a PR firm, after serveying High Shcool kids like you to see what they liked.

"He is primarily an armor dude"
He is an armor officer, but once you become a Gen you lose your Branch.

The reason we don't send people to Fort Hood, is we send them other places.  Most reserve units go to closer locations for training.  Example would be N Battery 5/14 in El Paso, they goes to White Sands, there are enough smaller bases around Texas so it would be a waste of money for the movement to get someone to Hood.  For ATD we normally send Reserves units to CAX at 29 Palms (which is all live fire) or to support a Active unit, like CSSD 46 out of Waco that just went to Bragg to support 10th Marines.

Active duty units aren't going to go to Fort Hood, when we could go to 29 Palms, which the whole base is an impact area.

The issue about the Cammies isn't really understood by many.  The Marines have around 4 years to acquire the cammies (Have 4 sets). Well a set of cammies is suppose to last around a year to two, well all along enlisted Marines are getting a clothing allowance to buy uniforms as they become unserviceable (Most enlisted Marines just spend they money, but they are given it to buy uniforms) so they are given the money to replace them, but it is the same money they would be given when we were suppose to buy woodlands.

let me stand corrected I meant dress uniform not class a's

shinsheki was both a major major pusher for both the army of one, and ranger beret situations. what ever school those kids were from they do not in any way represent what I have seen (and I have seen alot) from highschool students. plus all reports I have seen finger shinsheki as the culprit for the ranger beret, and he had the final sign off on it.

shinsheki is armor through and through, all his ideas and objective represent the armor agenda which is becoming outdated in the arena of "low intensity conflicts" because it takes to damn long to get tanks into small conflicts and when they got there, they would serve a very deminished capacity. shinsheki knows this and so do his supporters. he came up through armor and that is what he knows best, which would be great if that was where the army was headed but its not.

ps the army black beret is much more resented than the black dress blues have ever been. everyone I have met, from arty officers to infantry privates hate the damn thing. now thats great for moral. hey lets give em somthing they hate and didn't earn that'll help moral.
on top of that lets steal it from one of the most highly regarded unit in the military.

but thank you for correcting me on the class a\ dress uni. issue. I must have had a brain lapse.

J_MONEY - I served enlisted in the Army Reserve while going to college and got commissioned through ROTC, so I got to see both sides.  If you are not interested in college now then enlist and serve a tour.  But as someone else said, save as much as you can with the GI Bill because you might feel differently in three years (Dad had to play blackjack to earn his college stake in the Corps '58-'61 - no GI Bill then!).  You can go OCS, but still have to get the degree anyway I believe.  Might as well do it the full time way.  College is another growth opportunity, if you keep it in perspective.  Going enlisted first will really help with that.

I admire the Marines' attitude and discipline - definitely superior to what I saw in the Army, and I served in Armor, a combat arm, though that is a different world from Infantry (but then again, isn't everything).

I think the Army probably offers more choices, and if you want to go hard core you can work up through the harder core of infantry into SOCOM (Ranger, SF, Delta).

Either way you will be glad you served your country.  In doing so I also served myself - it has made me a much better person, husband, and citizen.