Quoted:


They still exist in the Army...

Waahh... I miss the black boots... I miss BDUs... This is too easy...

The funny thing is, before the Army wore black boots, IIRC, we were in rough-out brown ones...

That said, at least we don't have the AF's Man-Love-ThursdayClass-A-Monday....



 

Quoted:


I think they were brown, but not rough-out (I believe the Navy wore the same or similar boots too - One of my uncles used to bitch incessantly about having to shine engine-oiled boots)
 

Quoted:
Marine corps still has it straight on uniforms, don't know about ya'll.

Quoted:


They're the best of what's out there, but I wouldn't call a total lack of a hot weather woodland/jungle uniform 100% on and tracking.

Quoted:
Are they so bored that they have time to fix shit that isn't broken?

Quoted:
the fleece looks cool, but those boots

I'm in the Maintenance field and yes my current grren ABU boots are more black than green, but those those things look horrible.



tucking in the boots, IMHO thats gay, I had no problem using blousing straps.

Quoted:
Jesus, this whole uniform thing is getting fucking insane.......

Quoted:


why the fuck are we still awake DG84? LOL

Quoted:


Isn't it like only dinner time way out that way?

Quoted:


note the location change.. I'm in Alaska for a few weeks

though the sun finally hit "dusk" mode

Quoted:




The 'squared away military' appearance has changed so many times in history, why not let it change again?

Finally wake up, and let form FOLLOW function, instead of the other way around!

We have dress uniforms for 'look cool' events...

Work uniforms should be wash & wear... Boots should be maintainance-free...

Getting wrapped up in uniform appearance, beyond wearing it all & being in the right uniform, is the sort of garrison bullshit that leads to CSM PTBeltNazi types wandering around FOBs in Iraq looking for victims...


 

Quoted:
Good grief... those look like plastic GI Joe boots.  WTF?

I don't mind the sage suede boots for looks but... damn.  Those new ones look like ass.

1.  THE 98TH AF VIRTUAL UNIFORM BOARD CONVENED IN 2008.  VOTING MEMBERS
INCLUDED AIRMEN FROM ALL MAJCOMS AND MOST FUNCTIONAL COMMUNITIES.
REPRESENTATIVES FROM AAFES, DSCP/DLA, THE AF UNIFORM OFFICE, AF/A1D AND
AF/A4L ACTED AS NON-VOTING ADVISORS.  BOARD RECOMMENDATIONS WERE FORWARDED
TO THE AIR FORCE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR FINAL DECISION.

2.  APPROVED ITEMS ? EFFECTIVE AS INDICATED:

    A.  DRESS (BLUE) UNIFORM
1)  ELIMINATE WEAR OF THE METAL RANK BY ENLISTED AIRMEN ON THE
LIGHT WEIGHT BLUE JACKET; RANK MUST BE WORN USING ONLY THE
CHEVRON RANK INSIGNIA SEWN ON THE SLEEVES; EFF:  NLT 1 JAN 2010
 
    B.  UTILITY UNIFORM (APPLIES TO ABUS, BDUS, AND DCUS)
1)  TROUSERS MUST BE TUCKED INTO BOOTS AND PRESENT A BLOUSED
APPEARANCE AT ALL TIMES; EFF:  IMMEDIATELY  
2)  TUCK IN BOOT LACES; EXCESS BOOT LACES MAY BE WRAPPED AROUND
THE BOOT AND TUCKED IN.  NO ?BOWTIE? BOOT LACES; EFF:
IMMEDIATELY
3)  MAJCOMS AUTHORIZED TO APPROVE WEAR OF BLACK BOOTS WITH THE ABU ONLY IN
INDUSTRIAL AREAS IAW 132024Z FEB 09 HQ USAF/A1 MESSAGE; EFF:  AS PER
REFERENCED MESSAGE, 13 FEB 2009
4)  ELIMINATE AUTHORITY TO ATTACH ORGANIZATIONAL CAP TO BDU TROUSER; EFF:
IMMEDIATELY
5)  UPPER SLEEVE POCKET APPROVED FOR FIRE RESISTANT ABUS AUTHORIZED FOR, AND
WORN ONLY IN, THE AOR

    C.  ACCOUTREMENTS
1)  AUTHORIZE AIRMEN MEETING THE CRITERIA FOR, AND AWARDED
THE US ARMY PARACHUTE RIGGERS BADGE PERMANENT WEAR OF THAT
BADGE ON ALL AUTHORIZED UNIFORM COMBINATIONS.  WHEN WEARING THE SUBDUED
RIGGERS BADGE ON THE ABU/BDU, THE BADGE WILL BE BLUE (NOT BLACK).
WHEN WEARING THE SUBDUED BADGE ON THE DCU, THE BADGE WILL BE BROWN.

2)  AUTHORIZE PERMANENT WEAR OF BLACK U.S. ARMY AIR ASSAULT BADGE ON THE
BDU, REGARDLESS OF DUTY ASSIGNMENT, UPON GRADUATION FROM AIR ASSAULT SCHOOL

3)  AUTHORIZE WEAR OF THE AIR FORCE OFFICE OF SPECIAL  INVESTIGATIONS DUTY
BADGE ON THE SERVICE DRESS UNIFORM AND SUBDUED CLOTH DUTY BADGE ON THE ABU
   
D.  MISCELLANEOUS
1) AUTHORIZE USE OF PERSONAL CELLULAR PHONES WHILE WALKING IN UNIFORM;
CELLULAR PHONE MUST BE CONSERVATIVE IN COLOR; WEAR OF HANDS FREE DEVICES
WHILE WALKING IN UNIFORM IS PROHIBITED; CELL PHONE MAY BE WORN ON EITHER THE
LEFT OR RIGHT SIDE OF UNIFORM; MILITARY CUSTOMS AND COURTESIES APPLY AND
TAKE PRECEDENCE
 
3.  APPROVED UNIFORM/DESIGN CHANGES.  WEAR GUIDANCE AND EFFECTIVE DATES WILL
BE PROVIDED IN SUPPLEMENTAL MESSAGES.  NO ACTION REQUIRED BY MEMBERS AT THIS
TIME:

A.UTILITY UNIFORMS
1) WEAR OF FOLIAGE GREEN FLEECE AS AN OUTER GARMENT WITH ABU
2) A FLEECE LINER WITH THE ABILITY TO ZIP INTO THE APECS
3) NCREASE LENGTH OF LOWER LEG POCKET ON ABU TROUSER 1/2 INCH
4) CHANGE FEMALE ABU TROUSER FLY BUTTON?S TO MIRROR MALES
5) ADD SMALL ABU NAME TAPE WITH LAST NAME TO POCKET FLAP ON
ALL-PURPOSE ENVIRONMENTAL CLOTHING SYSTEM (APECS) LEFT SLEEVE
6) ALTER ABU SLEEVE PEN POCKET 1/2 INCHTO PREVENT
BREAKING WRITING UTENSILS OR PUNCTURES WHILE BENDING ARM

    B.  PHYSICAL TRAINING GEAR
1)  REVISE CURRENT PT GEAR WEAR GUIDANCE TO REFLECT A MORE
PROFESSIONAL IMAGE.  MAKE STANDARDS MORE IN LINE WITH THE
INTENT OF THE UNIFORM

  C.  MATERNITY UNIFORM
1)  AUTHORIZE AN ADDITION OF SIDE BUTTONS THAT UNFOLD A SMALL
PORTION OF THE MATERNITY ABU TROUSER.
   
4.  DEFERRED ITEMS AND ITEMS THAT BOARD RECOMMENDED APPROVAL, BUT REQUIRE
FURTHER RESEARCH AND/OR DEVELOPMENT.  IF ANY ITEM IS LATER APPROVED BY CSAF,
WEAR GUIDANCE AND EFFECTIVE DATES WILL BE PROVIDED IN SUPPLEMENTAL MESSAGES;
NO ACTION REQUIRED BY MEMBERS AT THIS TIME:

    A.  UTILITY UNIFORM
          1)  WEAR OF GREEN CREW NECK SWEATER SIMILAR TO MARINE CORPS
UNDER THE ABU
    B.  MATERNITY UNIFORM
          1)  ADJUST MATERNITY ABU TO MIRROR REGULAR POCKET PLACEMENT
    C.  ACCOUTREMENTS
          1)  OFFICERS ASSIGNED TO COMMAND AND CONTROL (C2) NODES TO WEAR
THE C2 BADGE IF APPROVED FOR AWARD BY THE FUNCTIONAL AUTHORITY

5.  DISAPPROVALS:
    A.  THE FOLLOWING INITIATIVES WERE DISAPPROVED:
1)  OPTIONAL FLIGHT CAP W/VENTING
2)  CORFAM/PATENT LEATHER LOW QUARTERS IN CLOTHING BAG
3)  FEMALE AIRMEN TO WEAR MALE BLUE PANTS
4)  MAKING LOOSER FITTING SERVICE DRESS TROUSERS
5)  CONNECTED STARS FOR 2, 3, AND 4 STAR GENERAL OFFICERS
6)  BODY SUIT STYLE SERVICE DRESS BLOUSE FOR FEMALE AIRMEN
7)  AUTHORIZE ONLY LOW QUARTERS AND BOOTS FOR FEMALE AIRMEN
WEARING SERVICE DRESS UNIFORMS
8)  AUTHORIZE WEAR OF ADDITIONAL OCCUPATIONAL BADGE 1.5? BELOW
WELT POCKET ON SERVICE DRESS COAT (THE WEAR OF ONE BADGE IN THAT
LOCATION IS STILL AUTHORIZED)
9)  MALE ?PRINCE CUT? SERVICE DRESS SHIRT SIMILAR TO FEMALE
?PRINCESS CUT? SERVICE DRESS SHIRT
10)  WEAR OF SILVER ?TERM OF SERVICE? STRIPES ON LOWER RIGHT
SLEEVE/CUFF AND ORANGE BRAID ?DISCHARGE STRIPE? ON THE SERVICE
           DRESS UNIFORM
11)  OFFICER BLACK ?GRADE? STRIPES ON LOWER SLEEVE/CUFF OF
SERVICE COAT (1=LT-CAPT; 2=MAJ-COL; 3=GEN OFFICER)
12)  WEAR OF ALL, SOME, OR NO RIBBONS ON SERVICE DRESS UNIFORM;
I.E, AIRMEN MUST CONTINUE TO WEAR ALL
13)  LONGEVITY STRIPES (HASH MARKS) ON SLEEVE OF SERVICE DRESS
AND MESS DRESS UNIFORMS
14)  WEAR OF CREW NECK UNDERSHIRT W/ANY COMBINATION OF SERVICE
          DRESS UNIFORM
15)  REPLACE BLUE TIE/TIE TAB WITH BLACK HERRINGBONE TIE/TIE TAB
16)  SMALL BOW TIE TO REPLACE FEMALE TIE TAB ON MESS DRESS
17)  ?BILLY MITCHELL? STYLE COAT W/FULL SIZE MEDALS AS
MESS DRESS UNIFORM/ELIMINATE SEMI-FORMAL UNIFORM
18)  WEAR OF AMERICAN FLAG ON THE ABU/DCU/BDU
19)  BOONIE HAT W/ABU AND BDU IN ALL GARRISON AND DEPLOYED
LOCATIONS (IAW AFI 36-2903, TAB 1.1, THEATER COMMANDERS
PRESCRIBE FOR THEATER OF OPERATIONS)
20)  DELETE REQUIREMENT TO BLOUSE UTILITY UNIFORM TROUSERS (SEE
           ITEM 2.B.1 ABOVE, TROUSERS MUST BE TUCKED INTO BOOTS)
21)  WEAR OF BRIGHT NON-SUBDUED GRADE INSIGNIA ON ABU CAP IN
NON-DEPLOYED LOCATIONS (ONLY SUBDUED PIN-ON OR SEW-ON RANK
           AUTHORIZED)
22)  WEAR OF PIN-ON OCCUPATIONAL BADGES ON ABUS FOR EASE OF
SANITIZING/CHANGING BADGES
23)  WEAR OF ENLISTED RANK ON ABU COLLAR LAPEL
24)  WEAR OF SIX-POINT UTILITY CAP
25)  PERMANENT REDUCTION OF SLEEVE LENGTH OF ABU (ACCOMPLISHED
           BY MANUFACTURER)
26)  VELCRO IN PLACE OF BUTTONS ON ABU
27)  SLANTED CHEST POCKETS ON ABU
28)  ONE PIECE UTILITY UNIFORM (SIMILAR TO FLT SUIT) TO REPLACE ABU
29)  WEAR OF BERET WITH ABU BY ALL AIRMEN (AFSCS CURRENTLY
           AUTHORIZED TO WEAR BERET MAINTAIN AUTHORIZATION IAW 36-2903)
30)  EMBROIDERED NAME ON ABU VICE NAME TAPE
31)  WEAR OF ORGANIZATIONAL CAPS WITH ABU
32)  BLACK SOCKS WITH ABU (SAGE GREEN SOCKS MUST BE WORN WITH
           THE SAGE GREEN BOOT; TAN OR SAGE SOCKS MUST BE WORN WITH THE
           TAN BOOT UNTIL 2011)
33)  REMOVE TWO LOWER POCKETS ON ABU BLOUSE (TOP)
34)  WEAR OF BLUE BELT WITH ABUS
35)  REMOVE THIRD ABU CUFF BUTTON, REPLACE OTHER CUFF BUTTON
WITH HOOK AND LOOP VELCRO FASTENERS
36)  ADD NAME TAPE SIMILAR TO ABU NAMETAPE TO BACK OF ABU HAT
37) WEAR OF UNIT PATCHES ON ABU (TO INCLUDE SISTER SERVICE PATCHES)
38)  WEAR OF ARMY LIGHT GREEN FLEECE WATCH CAP WITH THE ABU
39)  DISALLOW SEWING DOWN POCKETS ON ABU (THIS MEANS AIRMEN
ARE STILL AUTHORIZED TO SEW THEM DOWN)
40)  WEAR OF ABU CAP WITH ELASTIC BAND
41)  ALLOW WEAR OF WATCH CAP WITH ABUS ALONE, VICE WITH APECS
(OUTER GARMENTS ARE STILL REQUIRED WITH THE BLACK WATCH CAP)
42)  PEN POCKET ON RIGHT SLEEVE OF ABU FOR LEFT-HANDED AIRMEN
43)  SMALL POCKET ON ABU TO ACCOMMODATE COMMON ACCESS CARD
44)  METAL ZIPPER IN LIEU OF BUTTONS ON ABU TROUSER FLY & BLOUSE
45)  ELASTIC BANDS INSIDE BOTTOM OF TROUSERS OF ABU FOR BLOUSING
46)  WEAR OF WEAPONS SCHOOL PATCH ON ABUS
47)  CREATE ABU FIELD JACKET
48)  BLACK LETTERING VICE BLUE ON NAMETAPE/USAF/OCCUPATIONAL
BADGES WORN ON ABU
49)  PERMANENT WEAR OF TAN BOOTS VICE SAGE GREEN BOOTS
50)  PIXILATED BACKGROUND FOR ENLISTED RANK ON ABU AND
ELIMINATE CREASED RANK
51)  GREEN UNDERSHIRT WITH ABU
52)  BLUE POLAR FLEECE JACKET WITH ABU
53)  TAN GLOVES WITH ABU (BLACK AND SAGE GREEN GLOVES ARE
AUTHORIZED WITH APPROPRIATE OUTER GARMENTS)
54)  WEAR OF BLACK OR DARK BLUE (MATCHING LETTERING ON
NAMETAPE, ETC) UNDERSHIRT WITH ABU
55)  WEAR OF COMMANDER?S INSIGNIA ON ABU
56)  OLIVE GREEN/BEIGE/TAN BERET IN GARRISON AND MULTI-POINT HAT
WITH ABU WHILE DEPLOYED
57)  INTERIM WEAR OF DCU UNTIL MANDATORY WEAR DATE OF ABU
58)  WEAR OF SPACE BADGE ON UTILITY UNIFORMS
59)  REPLACE PIERCED STAR ON ENLISTED CHEVRONS WITH ?US? INSIGNIA
FOR AIRMAN TIER; RESERVE PIERCED STAR FOR NCOS
60)  WEAR OF FIRST SERGEANT INSIGNIA (DIAMOND) IN THE SAME
MANNER AS COMMANDER?S INSIGNIA
61)  DELETE OPTION TO WEAR COMMANDER?S INSIGNIA AS GRADUATED
COMMANDER
62)  REPLACE CURRENT PT PANTS WITH SNAP/TEAR AWAY PANTS THAT
CAN BE ALSO USED AS SHORTS (REMOVABLE LOWER LEG)
63)  BLACK SOCKS WITH PT GEAR
64)  HOOD OF PT JACKET SAME AS HOOD ON APECS
65)  ZIP OPEN VENTS BELOW POCKETS ON BOTH SIDES OF PT PANTS
66)  SILK-FITTED HEADSCARVES WITH PT GEAR
67)  REPLACE REFLECTIVE ?V? ON BACK OF PT JACKET WITH AF SYMBOL
68)  REMOVE ELASTIC WAIST BAND ON PT JACKET
69)  CREATION OF MATERNITY PT UNIFORM
70)  ALLOW RETIRED/CIVILIAN MEMBERS TO WEAR PT GEAR WITHOUT
REGARD TO GROOMING STANDARDS
71)  AUTHORIZE BEARD/GOATEE WITH SAME INTENT AS MUSTACHE;
NEATLY TRIMMED AND TASTEFUL
72)  WEAR OF SQUARE DIAMOND EARRINGS FOR FEMALE AIRMEN
73)  ALLOW AIRMEN STATIONED OVERSEAS TO HAVE DOUBLE THE HAIR
LENGTH AND BULK CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED
74)  RESTRICT FINGERNAIL LENGTH TO NO LONGER THAN TIP OF FINGER
75)  REVISIT SUPPLEMENTAL CLOTHING ALLOWANCE PAYMENT TO
INDIVIDUALS IN SPECIAL DUTY POSITIONS NO LONGER REQUIRED
ADDITIONAL MAINTENANCE DUE TO LOW MAINTENANCE OF ABU
76)  AUTHORIZE AIRMEN TO WEAR EARNED SISTER SERVICE
           PATCHES/BADGES ON ABU WHEN OPERATING WITH SISTER SERVICES

6.   THIS MESSAGE PROVIDES CSAF APPROVED CHANGES TO CURRENT AIR FORCE
UNIFORMS AND UNIFORM POLICY RESULTING FROM THE 98TH AIR FORCE VIRTUAL
UNIFORM BOARD.  THE CHANGES WILL BE CODIFIED IN AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION
36-2903, DRESS AND PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF AIR FORCE PERSONNEL.  ANY
QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED THROUGH YOUR LOCAL CHAIN OF COMMAND/MAJCOM
POINTS OF CONTACT.

Quoted:
The fleece is cool except the rank/name/service.

Quoted:


The problem is when service men go off base in that "wash & wear " shit looking like rag bags.

I was 11B and had 2 groups of uniforms and boots. Field (the majority) and a couple of barracks uniforms.
This was all the way back when we still had the glorious cool, comfortable, cotton OD Green slant pocket jungle fatigues.
Those fuckers looked sharp starched and ironed too. Wasn't hard to keep the jungle boots shiny either.

I'm starting to think ze Germans got it right the first time with nice general issue uniforms and cammo coveralls for the field.

Anyone playing dress-right-dress in a war zone should be sent out as a Polish land mine detector.

Quoted:
Where'd you get this info? Everything I've read said that tucking your pants into your boots was effective immediately not 1 Oct '10.

Quoted:


Im sent

Quoted:


Here is the e-mail from the 98th AF

Quoted:

The problem is when service men go off base in that "wash & wear " shit looking like rag bags.
I was 11B and had 2 groups of uniforms and boots. Field (the majority) and a couple of barracks uniforms.



This was all the way back when we still had the glorious cool, comfortable, cotton OD Green slant pocket jungle fatigues.



Those fuckers looked sharp starched and ironed too. Wasn't hard to keep the jungle boots shiny either.
I'm starting to think ze Germans got it right the first time with nice general issue uniforms and cammo coveralls for the field.
Anyone playing dress-right-dress in a war zone should be sent out as a Polish land mine detector.

Quoted:
That's the problem right there.  Why the Army, AF, etc. allow their troops to go off base to the mall and wherever else they want in cammies or PT gear is beyond me.  You look like rag bags and it's your own fault for being undisciplined, not because of the uniform designs.

Quoted:







That's the problem right there.  Why the Army, AF, etc. allow their troops to go off base to the mall and wherever else they want in cammies or PT gear is beyond me.  You look like rag bags and it's your own fault for being undisciplined, not because of the uniform designs.

Quoted:







Lunch?  Not all bases have a chow hall.

Quoted:


And not all troops are on meal cards...

Many folks eat off post...


 

Quoted:







Drive through.



Plus, I've been on a base or two and just about all of them have places to eat whether it's a chow hall or a Robin Hood, or whatever.



I understand your point, but when you allow troops to do that, then you end up with what you have- troops walking around malls and other places in broken uniforms looking like "rag bags" as the other guy put it up above.  See it all the time.  Except around Marine bases, where we dont' seem to have a problem not looking like ass and getting lunch...



But you're right, it will be pretty silly if the AF starts making the Airmen shine their green boots.  LOL.

Quoted:


That's the problem right there.  Why the Army, AF, etc. allow their troops to go off base to the mall and wherever else they want in cammies or PT gear is beyond me.  You look like rag bags and it's your own fault for being undisciplined, not because of the uniform designs.

Quoted:


Are you even actually in the military?

 

Quoted:
That boot really looks like crap. I am still wearing my desert boots I got issued back in 98 because I can't stand the sage boots. And the fleece...really? I don't think the fleece should be an outer garment outside of your immediate work area. If you are cold or are going to get wet while outside, wear the freaking jacket. Tucking trousers into your boots? Mine have so much extra material in the legs that there would not be enough room in the boot, plus it looks like crap (IMO) when they are tucked in for normal day to day wear. Field conditions, sure.

Quoted:







Drive through.



Plus, I've been on a base or two and just about all of them have places to eat whether it's a chow hall or a Robin Hood, or whatever.



I understand your point, but when you allow troops to do that, then you end up with what you have- troops walking around malls and other places in broken uniforms looking like "rag bags" as the other guy put it up above.  See it all the time.  Except around Marine bases, where we dont' seem to have a problem not looking like ass and getting lunch...



But you're right, it will be pretty silly if the AF starts making the Airmen shine their green boots.  LOL.

Quoted:







Not all of us are in Wyoming, sport. Sometimes, a light fleece is nice to wear around. Try hitting an Army post sometime, you might find it common practice. It's also comfortable. Tucking in for day to day ops os stupid as hell, kinda like the whole ABU. I hate it.

Quoted:







Major USMC, and you?

Quoted:


The ACU is the "public face" of the Army.  Even recruiters and other office workers wear it.  The ridiculous restrictions placed on Marines for wearing of the uniform off post are... ridiculous.  It only makes sense for force protection reasons, and probably dates back to an era when khakis were the daily wear uniform and fatigues were only worn in the field.

Nobody seems to know why the rule is what it is, only that to not follow it bakes you a "rag bag."  A Soldier or a Marine can and will look like a rag bag in ANY uniform, and can look sharp in ANY uniform.  One need only looks at how the navy wears they same khaki shirt or 8-pointed hat as the Marines to see that HOW a uniform item is worn is as important as WHAT uniform item is worn.

I have been in schools with Marines, and the lengths they had to go through to go to lunch with us was sad.

FWIW, the further you go from an actual Marine Corps base, the more likely you will see Marines in cammies off post.  Reservists do it, a lot.

Personally, I think it is good PR - it advertises the presence of a local Marine Reserve unit.

Quoted:







Major USMC, and you?

Quoted:


The problem is when service men go off base in that "wash & wear " shit looking like rag bags.

I was 11B and had 2 groups of uniforms and boots. Field (the majority) and a couple of barracks uniforms.
This was all the way back when we still had the glorious cool, comfortable, cotton OD Green slant pocket jungle fatigues.
Those fuckers looked sharp starched and ironed too. Wasn't hard to keep the jungle boots shiny either.

I'm starting to think ze Germans got it right the first time with nice general issue uniforms and cammo coveralls for the field.

Anyone playing dress-right-dress in a war zone should be sent out as a Polish land mine detector.

Quoted:


Didn't a large number of Marines recently get shit on in and around San Diego for looking like dirt bags off base?  Many mil members have that "out of sight, out of mind" mentality when off base.
 

Quoted:


Totally disagree with ya BA.  I think the above mentioned reason of looking like shit-bags in public while wearing the utility uniform is a valid argument.  Of course, the flip-side to that is the shit-bags that dress in inappropriate civilian attire when off base until someone steps up and tells him to pull his head out of his ass.  I wasn't a fashion nazi about it when going to the mall with the wife, as you can't tell who's a Marine and who isn't sometimes but restricting what is worn out in town makes sense.  There is no "off-duty" in the USMC.  You are a Marine 24 / 7 and you will conduct yourself as such.  With that said, I think it also minimizes the chances that a Marines will be engaged in misconduct on "libbo" while wearing the uniform-an embarrasing situation for the rest of us.  Instead of restricting what businesses a Marine is restricted from entering (such as bars and strip clubs) while in uniform and debating the subject to death, just restrict the Marine to proper civilian attire and be done with it.  You also blend in well with the rest of the civilian community without the "us" and "them" issues that make an appearance from time to time when you live in a "service town".

Finally, restricting what a Marine can wear on liberty is another "tool in the box" for discipline.  If I had my way, E-3s and below would be restricted to the "charlie" uniform for off-base liberty until being promoted to the rank of Cpl.  I didn't used to feel this way, but over the years I've come to the conclusion that young Marines need to earn the right to wear proper civilian attire so they don't take their off-base libbo for granted.  There's a metric shit-ton of us that feel the same way.  Liberty is a privalege, not a right.  Too many Marines fail to understand that.  It's all part of policing up our own and while you may consider our culture overly restrictive, you'd understand it once you became part of it.  We push our Marines pretty hard, so they have a tendency to want to blow off steam accordingly.  That's the part that needs to be put back in "check fire".  It's a minor adjustment for a small percentage of non-conformists, but those that can't get with the program stand out in the eyes of the public.  That sucks for the rest of us.

I've been to a few Army schools, and always felt wierd going to Hooters (for example) with Army classmates that were wearing their BDUs.  They were ironed and starched and looked squared away, but we were all SNCOs so they didn't act like drunken fools.  Changing over to "civies" and back takes five minutes.  It's not that big of a deal.      

Quoted:


The problem is, that's another 'rules for the sake of making rules' situation...

Wasting soldier's time... Nothing more, nothing less...

It is one of the most pathetic things that leadership does in the service, bar none...

Fortunately, the war seems to have reduced it in the Army, somewhat...

Of course, as soon as we have another 80s/90s '10 years with no combat' period, the garrison weenies and their 'special rules' will be back, full retard... Because apparently, the only way to know how 'good' someone is at being a solider, without combat, is to haze the fuck out of them with stupid-ass time-wasting rules (That serve NO purpose other than to add another 'chore' to the list of things a 'good' troop must do), and see how good they are at keeping up....


 

Quoted:


Isn't your desire to prevent "us" and "them" issues off post contradicted by your belief that junior Marines should be in Charlies on liberty?

I agree that troops tend to behave better the more they dress up, so I do see some of the logic in it.

This still points right back to the uniquely Marine Corps belief that somehow the utility uniform is unfit for public display (only other environment I have seen such a mentality against letting people see you fatigues is in foreign countries, or even with foreign soldiers in the US)

Quoted:
...
It may be a bad idea.  There may be more problems with it than benefits.  It's not my intent to make anyone's life miserable.  The issue has probably been discussed to death at the Sgt Majs. symposiam every year for all I know.  Perhaps I've got it all wrong and the policy needs to be implemented against those guilty of misconduct out in town on a selective basis as opposed to a blanket policy against the rest of those who don't deserve it (the majority).  

Damn, maybe I need to be recalibrated.  

Quoted:


Not all of us are in Wyoming, sport. Sometimes, a light fleece is nice to wear around. Try hitting an Army post sometime, you might find it common practice. It's also comfortable. Tucking in for day to day ops os stupid as hell, kinda like the whole ABU. I hate it.

Quoted:


One of the more memorable experience in my younger years was when then MG Honore wanted to do just that for discipline cases in Korea - let them on liberty, but Class A uniform only.

The Division JAG told him that would be illegal.

He about had a fit, and told her in a very colorful way that her job was to find out how to meet his intent in a manner that would be legal, not to just keep saying "Sir, you can't do that."

Apparently, this JAG off. had been famous for this.

Anyway, I later learned that this was apparently common practice in the 70s in the Army - to require certain soldiers to stay in either Class A or B uniform on liberty.

Quoted:


Gen. Honore was / is a good man.  His conduct during the Katrina disaster reflected very well upon those in uniform.  His leadership was a great credit to his service.  I'll always respect the hell out of him for not allowing his Soldiers to participate in gun confiscations once he found out that they were participating in it.  

He's a patriotic American.

Quoted:
They want a more professional image in the PT uniform but they mandate we tuck our pants into our boots and allow us to walk and talk on cell phones

Funny how the AF news says mandate date of Oct 2010 for the tucking in the pants but the official memorandum states effective immediately, how I wish it was 2010 because it looks like ASS!!