Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Update: www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051231/NEWS02/512310419/-1/NEWS Student gets reprieve on deportation German teen may yet finish senior year at Pandora-Gilboa High Photo A bond hearing has been set for Manuel Bartsch, shown with girlfriend Ashley Painter. ... Ok fine.  Let him finish his senior year, then SEND HIM HOME.  If he wants to come back, that's great, but make him do it legally.  If we do anything else, we're giving ammunition to all of the amesty supporters. Wrong, deport him now, and he is ineligible to ever get another visa to enter the US. He committed fraud, he came here on a 90 day tourist visa!!!! These visas are given to people who are supposed to come here to spend dollars and see the country, not get an education paid for by us, or get jobs.  Those are different visas with more stringent background checks that are given out in fewer numbers in order to make sure American citizens get the first shot. This is not the first time the kid heard of it, he has to have been committing fraud for years, how'd he enroll in school?  This is bullshit and people are sticking up for him. He is just as illegal as any other illegal immigrant.  I can feel sorry for someone on a tourist or emergency visa that is having trouble getting an extension because their friend/relative here is living a little longer with the cancer than previously thought.  If someone in that situation overstayed until they passed despite the INS, I'd be on their side. But a foreign citizen coming here on a 90 day tourist visa and staying for 9 years and getting an education paid for by us isn't a misunderstanding.  He was trying to get a social security number now?  Bullshit, this guy and his guardian have been hiding it for years, do they have no insurance, never seen a doctor, again how'd he enroll in public school all with no SSN?  The reason he finally has to try to get a real SSN is he's graduating and will definitely need it to get work. And their excuse is he went to Canada and came back?  In the past getting into Canada from the US at most required a stop at a little toll booth where a guy asks where you were born.  I'm sure he lied.  How does that legal argument even work? And the kicker, its a win-win for the kid now because even if he loses the court case, it will delay his deportation long enough for him to get his diploma, paid for by US taxpayers. I'm generally pro-immigration, but very against all illegal immigration.

I don't have a SSN.

If I've made it this far without one, I don't see how he had a hard time. Just takes intelligence and creativity.

11 pages.

Sucks to be in that kid's situation.  But if the idiot spokesman for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement feels so strongly that he should go, then so should EVERY illegal in this country.  I want him to personally spear head that.

Let the kid stay, he's doing no harm.  Hell there's worse that are here legally!

Quoted: Snip. He committed fraud, he came here on a 90 day tourist visa!!!! Snip .

No he did not commit fraud his Step Grandfather did. He was a 10 year old child. Let him graduate and leave. Once back in the EU (Britain or Ireland as his german sucks) and reapply for a legal visa.

This is bullshit. I am tired of ILLEGAL immagrants!!!!

My Grandfather busted his ass to get enough money in communist Cuba to LEGALLY go to Miami. And he didnt come here during that stinkin Mariel Boatlift either, he came here when you had to pay basically your yearly salary to move here.

There ARE legal ways to get to America!

In the Southwest states, a large number of students in our public schools are illegal aliens from Mexico.  Many of them, such as in San Diego, cross the border every morning to attend U.S. schools.  

This isn't just a couple, but tens of thousands entering the U.S. illegally and attending schools here on my frigging property tax payments.  Where I live, we have had to build 3 new high schools in the last 5 years.  Is anyone rounding these kids up and deporting them? NO.

In California, they know that the kids are illegal, but no one does anything to stop them from attending the schools, the schools don't want it to stop as they get federal gov't money based on the number of students.  

We need a wall on the entire Mexico/US border.  Patrolled by U.S. National Guard/military units rotated monthly to stop immigration and prevent the corruption that occurs with our border patrol and immigration officers.      

There are even states that have laws to provide in-state tuition rates for illegals who have been attending public schools for a number of years.

Quoted: Quoted: Snip. He committed fraud, he came here on a 90 day tourist visa!!!! Snip . No he did not commit fraud his Step Grandfather did. He was a 10 year old child. Let him graduate and leave. Once back in the EU (Britain or Ireland as his german sucks) and reapply for a legal visa.

And should we then pay for the education of every illegal kid in the US?

You are talking many thousands here.

Kick him out.

Is his girlfriend hot? Maybe they should get married and he can knock her up.

Why have we been paying for this kid's education for 9 years?  Send him (all of them) home with a bill.

Quoted: The reason why the German kid is deported while millions of 3rd world illegals are tolerated is because the system wants die-versity. For more details, go read DEATH OF THE WEST by Pat Buchanan.

Cause we've all been adjumakated by all the mandatory diversity propaganda training.

Quoted: Is his girlfriend hot? Maybe they should get married and he can knock her up.

That reminds me of when I was student in Germany. I went to the local employment office.

They asked me,

"Do you have a work permit?"

"No."

"Then we can't allow you to work. Do you have a German girlfriend?"

"Yes"

"You should marry her then, you'll get a work permit."

The one to blame here is his American stephfather, this kid could have had a green card.
Now he's probably banned from the USA for atleast a decade and perhaps for life.

Where is the ACLU??

Where are the hollyweird elite??

Another update:

www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060105/NEWS02/601050391/-1/NEWS

Judge refuses to release, deport Putnam student


By STEVE MURPHY
BLADE STAFF WRITER

CLEVELAND - A Putnam County high school student from Germany will remain in a Cleveland-area jail for the next nine days, but he still has a chance of avoiding deportation and graduating with his classmates in June.



Federal immigration Judge M. Christopher Grant refused yesterday to release 18-year-old Manuel Bartsch but continued a bond hearing until Jan. 13 so his attorneys can present evidence that might allow the senior at Pandora-Gilboa High School to remain in this country, at least temporarily.

The fate of Mr. Bartsch may hinge on whether he can prove he went on a trip to Canada with relatives who bought beer.

Judge Grant said he had no jurisdiction to grant bond to Mr. Bartsch or free him, but the judge rejected a request by the federal Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement to lift a stay that prevents the German teen from being immediately deported.

During a three-way video conference, Mr. Bartsch participated in the proceedings in Judge Grant's courtroom in Arlington, Va.

Photo
Manuel Bartsch, with his girlfriend, Ashley Painter, has been in jail since before Christmas.
( ASSOCIATED PRESS )
Zoom | Photo Reprints
Federal officials were in the Anthony J. Celebrezze Federal Building in downtown Cleveland while Mr. Bartsch was in the Bedford Heights jail, where he has been detained since Dec. 21.

Dressed in an orange jail jumpsuit, Mr. Bartsch watched the 40-minute hearing impassively, letting attorney David Leopold speak for him.

Friends and teachers, administrators, and school board members from the Pandora-Gilboa district who traveled to Cleveland for the hearing said they were upset that Mr. Bartsch couldn't return to school but hopeful he would eventually be back in Putnam County.

"Right now, he still has a chance," said Mark Painter, whose daughter, Ashley, is Mr. Bartsch's girlfriend. "It's not a definite no.

"It could have been over today, but it isn't. The fight goes on. Somebody in immigration can be human and grant him the right to finish his education," Mr. Painter said.

Karen Blankenship, a friend who has housed Mr. Bartsch during part of his stay in Ohio, shook her head sadly after learning he wouldn't be released.

"It's a nightmare," she said. "But I'm not going to lose faith. I'm going to stand behind Butch [his nickname] as much as I can."

Immigration officials said Mr. Bartsch entered this country at Newark, N.J., with his stepgrandfather, Toby Deal, a U.S. citizen, on Aug. 21, 1997, less than a month after his 10th birthday.

Mr. Bartsch was admitted to the United States under a 90-day visa waiver, a document typically granted to tourists.

Mr. Bartsch failed to return to Germany before the visa waiver expired, federal immigration officials told Judge Grant, so the German teenager had no right to a bond hearing or other legal proceedings before being deported.

"We would ask the court to find simply that it has no jurisdiction," said Victoria Christian, deputy chief counsel for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Judge Grant said the government's position "seems harsh," but the most he could do yesterday was grant the continuance.

Another immigration judge, Wayne R. Iskra, granted an emergency motion from Mr. Leopold last week to postpone the deportation.

In his motion, Mr. Leopold argued that Mr. Bartsch was not in this country under the visa waiver because he and his grandfather traveled to Windsor, Ont., in 1998 and were allowed to leave and re-enter the United States.

Mr. Leopold told the judge Mr. Bartsch recounted the visit, which he said occurred in August of that year, during a three-hour interview Tuesday with federal immigration officials. Mr. Leopold said the boy accompanied his grandfather and an uncle on a trip to buy beer in Windsor, and he has snapshots taken from their vehicle from the Ambassador Bridge, which connects Detroit with Ontario.

"We believe the court has jurisdiction because that last entry was other than a visa waiver," Mr. Leopold said.

He also said it would be wrong to hold Mr. Bartsch responsible for the visa waiver, because it was issued when he was 10.

"This child shouldn't be saddled with that," the attorney told Judge Grant. "All this young man wants to do is graduate high school."

Ms. Christian, however, said Mr. Leopold and his client could not prove the cross-border trip occurred, and Mr. Bartsch could not give a date for his passage through U.S. Customs.

"I find it hard to believe that a truck with three people was simply waved through," she said.

"We're talking several years before 9/11," Mr. Leopold said. "Getting waved through was not all that uncommon."

Judge Grant told Mr. Leopold to provide evidence by Wednesday regarding the visit to Canada.

Toby Deal returned to Germany late last year after getting divorced, said his brother, Chuck Deal of Ottawa, Ohio. Chuck Deal said after the hearing he and a friend accompanied his brother and Mr. Bartsch on the visit to Canada.

"He's just a good kid and a smart kid too," Chuck Deal said.

"Really, he doesn't deserve what he's getting. He's just caught in a bad trap."

Mr. Leopold said Mr. Bartsch's birth mother gave him to his maternal grandmother when he was 2 months old.

The grandmother died in a car crash in 1994, and her husband brought the boy to Gilboa in 1997 and enrolled him in local schools.

Mr. Bartsch's troubles with immigration authorities began when he tried to resolve his legal status so he could get a driver's license and Social Security number. He was jailed after showing up for a meeting with immigration officials in Cleveland two weeks ago.

While Mr. Bartsch remains behind bars, Principal Mel Heitmeyer of Pandora-Gilboa High School said he was planning to arrange a video hookup like the one used for yesterday's hearing so the student can complete classwork for the first semester, which ends the date of his next hearing, Jan. 13.

After that, school officials hope the government will let Mr. Bartsch return to class. "At least for now until the 13th, there's a chance for them to do what's right," Mr. Heitmeyer said.

Contact Steve Murphy at:
[email protected]
or 419-724-6078.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about we just treat everybody the same. How about we get rid of the 20 million spanish speaking illegals first, then go after English speaking German illegals that are perfectly integrated into society last? Yeah!  Wait till he graduates from college and starts a job here before you bring the hammer down! An illegal going to college, getting a good job, and marrying his American gf and starting a family, that will be raised with English as their native tounge...you're right, get him the fuck out of here!

Hell yes get him out of here, he's not special because he's white.  I'm all for kicking out the illegal  Mexicans as well, but making exceptions here and there because of some heartwarming anecdote is what got us where we are!

Quoted: Quoted: How about we just treat everybody the same. How about we get rid of the 20 million spanish speaking illegals first, then go after English speaking German illegals that are perfectly integrated into society last?

What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you understand?  Get rid of ALL the illegal scum sponging off our good will.  Posts like yours give ammuniton to the DU types that say Americans are anti illegal because they're "racist" against brown people.
Black White Brown or Yellow, you don't have an entitlement to come to my country illegally!

Kick the kid out, send him home.
Who in the hell does he think he is... a Mexican or something?
A Mexican can stay but a German, Damn Kraut, who wants to go to high school to graduate has to go.

What a fucked up country we have become.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: his visa expired EIGHT YEARS AGO. glad to see INS is on top of things. I arrested a guy from Thailand whose student visa expired 5 years ago.  Thailand is a country of interest/terrorism so ICE reluctantly put an INS hld on him at the jail after i called them and hounded them about it. FWIW; many of the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired student & tourist visas.  An expired visa holder is no less illegal than a border jumper.   Did any of those 9/11 hijackers play on their high school football team and take their high school sweatheart to the prom?

So if illegal Pedro played on the high school soccer team, and took his girlfriend to the prom would you be in favor of letting him stay?  You're using some of the most fucked up logic I've read here in a long time, and your showing your racism against Hispanics.  They ALL need kicked out!
If this German punk turned to Islam while he was here playing football and courting his girlfriend would you be OK with letting him stay?
The United States is a soveriegn nation, we don't owe foreigners from anywhere a free ride.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about we just treat everybody the same. How about we get rid of the 20 million spanish speaking illegals first, then go after English speaking German illegals that are perfectly integrated into society last? What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you understand?  Get rid of ALL the illegal scum sponging off our good will.  Posts like yours give ammuniton to the DU types that say Americans are anti illegal because they're "racist" against brown people. Black White Brown or Yellow, you don't have an entitlement to come to my country illegally!

You are more worried about what the DU thinks than common sense, or the right thing??

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: his visa expired EIGHT YEARS AGO. glad to see INS is on top of things. I arrested a guy from Thailand whose student visa expired 5 years ago.  Thailand is a country of interest/terrorism so ICE reluctantly put an INS hld on him at the jail after i called them and hounded them about it. FWIW; many of the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired student & tourist visas.  An expired visa holder is no less illegal than a border jumper.   Did any of those 9/11 hijackers play on their high school football team and take their high school sweatheart to the prom? So if illegal Pedro played on the high school soccer team, and took his girlfriend to the prom would you be in favor of letting him stay?  You're using some of the most fucked up logic I've read here in a long time, and your showing your racism against Hispanics.  They ALL need kicked out! If this German punk turned to Islam while he was here playing football and courting his girlfriend would you be OK with letting him stay? The United States is a soveriegn nation, we don't owe foreigners from anywhere a free ride.

You are calling me a racist, and then you rip on one of the world's largest religions. If Pedro spoke perfect English and had assimilated into our culture, as this kid has, I wouldn't personally have a problem with him. This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not...

If you would quit with the race rhetoric for a second you might see that. Since you pulled the race card all you have done is put yourself in a corner you can't get out of...

Quoted: Kick the kid out, send him home. Who in the hell does he think he is... a Mexican or something? A Mexican can stay but a German, Damn Kraut, who wants to go to high school to graduate has to go. What a fucked up country we have become.

+1...this country is seriously fucked up...as are quite a few unfortunately who frequent this board...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about we just treat everybody the same. How about we get rid of the 20 million spanish speaking illegals first, then go after English speaking German illegals that are perfectly integrated into society last? Yeah!  Wait till he graduates from college and starts a job here before you bring the hammer down! An illegal going to college, getting a good job, and marrying his American gf and starting a family, that will be raised with English as their native tounge...you're right, get him the fuck out of here! Hell yes get him out of here, he's not special because he's white.  I'm all for kicking out the illegal  Mexicans as well, but making exceptions here and there because of some heartwarming anecdote is what got us where we are!

He is not a special case because he is white (WTF is white by the way?). He is a special case because he is perfectly assimilated into American society...He is the personifcation of what an immigrant should be, legal or not...

Why don't you get to work on your illegals down in Texas, and we'll worry about our illegal German exception up here...

What's the problem?........The message from Gov.org is that any "Euro"-origin person is infinitely inferior to anything brown or black.

I'm actually glad that Gov.org has clarified that for us.

Quoted: Quoted: Wouldn't be surprised if he is be kicked on precisely because he is white.  LE doesn't have to deal with any "community activists" or be accused of racism in the media, and they can claim that they "did something" on illegal immigration.   I heard the kid speak on the local tv (via phone from his jail cell in Cleveland) and there is no way anyone could tell he wasn't American. According to the article above, he came here in '97, so one would think he knows German as well. However, I could have sworn on the local news they said he didn't know German, which would bring the '97 date into question (wouldn't be the first time the Blade made a mistake). From the way he spoke English I wouldn't doubt he didn't know German, or it was poor at best. This kid is getting the screw job, just like you said, so they claim they are tough on illegals...

Who gives a crap about how good he's mastered the english language, he's here illegally, deport his ass!  Are you against all illegal aliens or just a selective group?  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about we just treat everybody the same. How about we get rid of the 20 million spanish speaking illegals first, then go after English speaking German illegals that are perfectly integrated into society last? Yeah!  Wait till he graduates from college and starts a job here before you bring the hammer down! An illegal going to college, getting a good job, and marrying his American gf and starting a family, that will be raised with English as their native tounge...you're right, get him the fuck out of here! Hell yes get him out of here, he's not special because he's white.  I'm all for kicking out the illegal  Mexicans as well, but making exceptions here and there because of some heartwarming anecdote is what got us where we are! He is not a special case because he is white (WTF is white by the way?). He is a special case because he is perfectly assimilated into American society...He is the personifcation of what an immigrant should be, legal or not... Why don't you get to work on your illegals down in Texas, and we'll worry about our illegal German exception up here...

Hey Pal, if youthink the illegals are staying in Texas and not making their way to the Buckeye State you're kidding yourself.  You German boy ain't an exception, he's just another fuckin' illegal alien.

Quoted: To the get Mexicans first crowd: Don't you think that MAYBE, just MAYBE the INS/DHS needs to prosecute a few whites first specifically to point to the fact that mass deportations of other illegals is NOT racist, but just following the law?

Absolutely not.  Here illegally?  You're prosecuted and deported.  I dont care what color you are.  I say this while currently dating a foreign national that will have to renew her school visa soon or face return to central europe.  Why in the hell should race have anything to do with this.  If we let them have power over us because we are afraid they will use the race card they have already won.  

Quoted: What part of I-L-L-E-G-A-L don't you understand?  Get rid of ALL the illegal scum sponging off our good will.  Posts like yours give ammuniton to the DU types that say Americans are anti illegal because they're "racist" against brown people. Black White Brown or Yellow, you don't have an entitlement to come to my country illegally!

fist of all to clarify, he didn't come to America illegally.

this kid is illegal, if you want to kick him out for being illegal, that's just fine. We shouldn't have any illegal immigrants here. But to bust one illegal white kid in high school and make such a big fuss out of deporting him and to just turn the other cheek on all the illegal mexicans in high school is racism. My highschool had quite a few illegals in it and I live in a nice part of Phoenix, I'm sure with you being from Texas, yours did too. How many got deported from your HS? NONE were deported from mine.

If they want to kick out illegals, fine by me. I've been asking for it for years. So long as they cut out their bullshit racist double standard

Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire.

Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: his visa expired EIGHT YEARS AGO. glad to see INS is on top of things. I arrested a guy from Thailand whose student visa expired 5 years ago.  Thailand is a country of interest/terrorism so ICE reluctantly put an INS hld on him at the jail after i called them and hounded them about it. FWIW; many of the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired student & tourist visas.  An expired visa holder is no less illegal than a border jumper.   Did any of those 9/11 hijackers play on their high school football team and take their high school sweatheart to the prom? So if illegal Pedro played on the high school soccer team, and took his girlfriend to the prom would you be in favor of letting him stay?  You're using some of the most fucked up logic I've read here in a long time, and your showing your racism against Hispanics.  They ALL need kicked out! If this German punk turned to Islam while he was here playing football and courting his girlfriend would you be OK with letting him stay? The United States is a soveriegn nation, we don't owe foreigners from anywhere a free ride. You are calling me a racist, and then you rip on one of the world's largest religions. If Pedro spoke perfect English and had assimilated into our culture, as this kid has, I wouldn't personally have a problem with him. This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not... If you would quit with the race rhetoric for a second you might see that. Since you pulled the race card all you have done is put yourself in a corner you can't get out of...

"This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not..."  What's an American?   This punk is NOT "all practical sense is an American" he's a German National, here ILLEGALLY.  You pulled the race card Mr Neo Nazi, when you say an illegal Europeon is more of an American than a legal Mexican.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire. Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.

wow a striking similarity. He went to meet with immigration to srt things out and try to get a DL and SS card and was thrown in jail, the hijackers crashed a plane into buildings. I can see where you make the connection

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire. Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.   wow a striking similarity. He went to meet with immigration to srt things out and try to get a DL and SS card and was thrown in jail, the hijackers crashed a plane into buildings. I can see where you make the connection

What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? I didn't know that it was ok to be an illegal alien as long as you're not mexican.

Quoted: What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? I didn't know that it was ok to be an illegal alien as long as you're not mexican.

oohhh, did I touch a nerve with that one? Read my post previous to the one you just quoted, and respond to that one

Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home.

Same here.  He needs to be here legally.  

Quoted: Quoted: What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? I didn't know that it was ok to be an illegal alien as long as you're not mexican. oohhh, did I touch a nerve with that one? Read my post previous to the one you just quoted, and respond to that one

Why would you touch a nerve with me. I was born & raised in this great land for 32 years & still going.

So long as they cut out their bullshit racist double standard

Hmmmm. Practice what you preach.


I bet we can agree on this, I want ALL illegal aliens out of this country. Doesn't matter what color, race, country of origin or ethnicity they are.  

Quoted: [ Yeah!  Wait till he graduates from college on a Pell Grant and Student Loansand starts a job here before you bring the hammer down!

Sorry, illegal is illegal.  Bye bye.  Go bach to Germany, apply, come back.


The "overlooking" of 20+million illegal Hispanics is frustrating, but different problem.  Apples and oranges.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire. Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.   wow a striking similarity. He went to meet with immigration to srt things out and try to get a DL and SS card and was thrown in jail, the hijackers crashed a plane into buildings. I can see where you make the connection

The similiarity is, he's here on an expired visa just like the 9-11 murderers were, thus he's here just as illegally as they were.
What is so hard about this?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? I didn't know that it was ok to be an illegal alien as long as you're not mexican. oohhh, did I touch a nerve with that one? Read my post previous to the one you just quoted, and respond to that one Why would you touch a nerve with me. I was born & raised in this great land for 32 years & still going. been here my whole life too, first 2 in CA past 19 in AZ, so illegal immigration is nothing new to me So long as they cut out their bullshit racist double standard Hmmmm. Practice what you preach. you lost me on that one. Are you implying that I am racist for thinking it is bullshit that a white kid be treated any differently than a brown one? I bet we can agree on this, I want ALL illegal aliens out of this country. Doesn't matter what color, race, country of origin or ethnicity they are.   yes, we do agree on that

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire. Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.   wow a striking similarity. He went to meet with immigration to srt things out and try to get a DL and SS card and was thrown in jail, the hijackers crashed a plane into buildings. I can see where you make the connection The similiarity is, he's here on an expired visa just like the 9-11 murderers were, thus he's here just as illegally as they were. What is so hard about this?

come on now, that was a reference to terrorists, not to illegal immigrants. If you are gonna try to deny that, then it's not even worth continuing the conversation

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire. Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.   wow a striking similarity. He went to meet with immigration to srt things out and try to get a DL and SS card and was thrown in jail, the hijackers crashed a plane into buildings. I can see where you make the connection The similiarity is, he's here on an expired visa just like the 9-11 murderers were, thus he's here just as illegally as they were. What is so hard about this? come on now, that was a reference to terrorists, not to illegal immigrants. If you are gonna try to deny that, then it's not even worth continuing the conversation

The terrorists were illegal immigrants, as is your German boy.

Quoted: The terrorists were illegal immigrants, as is your German boy.

whoa now. He's not MY German boy.

that's wierd, they also had opposable thumbs. Ban all opposable thumbs to prevent terrorism AND illegal immigration.

There I fixed everything, now we can all go back to wishing everybody a happy winter holiday

Quoted: If Pedro spoke perfect English and had assimilated into our culture, as this kid has, I wouldn't personally have a problem with him. This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not...

That's some completely bizarre reasoning right there.     (although I'm personally pleased that you consider me to practically be more of an American than some actual U.S. citizens )


So if illegals "assimilated into our culture" - which apparently means dating american chicks, and playing high school sports - you'd have no problems with them?  You'd accept illegals living in the U.S. as long as they spoke good english and played nice??

In my opinion, that's crazy talk.  Well-assimilated or not, english-speaking or not, they are CRIMINALS by the very nature of their presence.  Their assimilation has nothing to do with it.   The United States is a country and culture of law.  If people are "assimilated" into that, they would want to follow the law.

Quoted: Who gives a crap about how good he's mastered the english language, he's here illegally, deport his ass!  Are you against all illegal aliens or just a selective group?

Personally I would take illegals that speak perfect English over any legal who doesn't and or speaks a foreign language at home...that is me, I don't want the US balkanized...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the tone of your intro, I suspect if Manuel Bartsch were from Mexico, you'ld have no problem with him getting the boot.  I feel bad for the young man, but he is here illegally.  He needs to go home. You suspect wrong. This kid was here legally and just let his visa expire. Yeah, like most of the 9/11 hijackers did.

Call the feds right now saying you suspect him...You have his name and know where he lives. Get on it then!

Well, it seems that since the kid was brought here at the age of 7, he certainly didn't have a real say in whether he came here legally or not.  

Considering his track record here, and that he stands to make for an upstanding person who assuredely will want to become naturalized, and appears will make a productive member of society, he should be granted a permenant visa and begin the naturalization process.  

Some of you guys are so blinded by your small minds that you can't take into account the circumstances here.  

Pedro hopping over the border at age 35 with little or no skills to offer, little command of the language, and often times infected with some disease or with a criminal record, is VASTLY different that this kid.  

To just say "deport him" because he's illegal is missing the big picture.  Some effort needs to be made to take into account of the actual circumstances here and to get him legal, without destroying his life and robbing this country of what appears to be future productive member of society and taxpayer.  

Quoted: Quoted: If Pedro spoke perfect English and had assimilated into our culture, as this kid has, I wouldn't personally have a problem with him. This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not... That's some completely bizarre reasoning right there.     (although I'm personally pleased that you consider me to practically be more of an American than some actual U.S. citizens ) So if illegals "assimilated into our culture" - which apparently means dating american chicks, and playing high school sports - you'd have no problems with them?  You'd accept illegals living in the U.S. as long as they spoke good english and played nice?? In my opinion, that's crazy talk.  Well-assimilated or not, english-speaking or not, they are CRIMINALS by the very nature of their presence.  Their assimilation has nothing to do with it.   The United States is a country and culture of law.  If people are "assimilated" into that, they would want to follow the law.

Yes, yes I do...If he speaks perfect English, shares the American culture, and plays nice, he should be able to stay.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: his visa expired EIGHT YEARS AGO. glad to see INS is on top of things. I arrested a guy from Thailand whose student visa expired 5 years ago.  Thailand is a country of interest/terrorism so ICE reluctantly put an INS hld on him at the jail after i called them and hounded them about it. FWIW; many of the 9/11 hijackers were here on expired student & tourist visas.  An expired visa holder is no less illegal than a border jumper.   Did any of those 9/11 hijackers play on their high school football team and take their high school sweatheart to the prom? So if illegal Pedro played on the high school soccer team, and took his girlfriend to the prom would you be in favor of letting him stay?  You're using some of the most fucked up logic I've read here in a long time, and your showing your racism against Hispanics.  They ALL need kicked out! If this German punk turned to Islam while he was here playing football and courting his girlfriend would you be OK with letting him stay? The United States is a soveriegn nation, we don't owe foreigners from anywhere a free ride. You are calling me a racist, and then you rip on one of the world's largest religions. If Pedro spoke perfect English and had assimilated into our culture, as this kid has, I wouldn't personally have a problem with him. This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not... If you would quit with the race rhetoric for a second you might see that. Since you pulled the race card all you have done is put yourself in a corner you can't get out of... "This kid for all practical sense is a American...Many legal Mexicans are not..."  What's an American?   This punk is NOT "all practical sense is an American" he's a German National, here ILLEGALLY.  You pulled the race card Mr Neo Nazi, when you say an illegal Europeon is more of an American than a legal Mexican.

Only on Arfcom can one of Israel's biggest supporters be called a NeoNazi...

New update...the kid is free...Maybe we can get to work on those 20 million illegals from down South now...

www.nbc24.com/Global/story.asp?S=4324664

"Developing Story
From Jail Cell to School Bell


BEDFORD HEIGHTS, Ohio (AP) - A teenager who is trying to avoid deportation to his native Germany before he graduates high school was released Thursday from jail, although authorities say he is still in the country illegally.

Manuel Bartsch, 18, had been jailed since Dec. 21 after discovering that his step-grandfather never completed paperwork eight years ago to make his stay legal in the United States.

"It feels great because I get to go home and I get to go to school," he said after emerging from the suburban Cleveland jail where he was held for 16 days.

Bartsch wants to stay in the U.S. until he graduates this spring from Pandora-Gilboa High School in northwest Ohio where friends and school officials have rallied to support him. The school planned to have a news conference Friday morning, Superintendent Dale Lewellen said.

Bartsch must appear before an immigration judge at a later date, said Greg Palmore, spokesman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

He was released by the agency after it received information that changes his status from being in the country under an expired 90-day visa to entering the country without inspection, Palmore
said. He would not say what the information was.

"He's basically an illegal alien," Palmore said.

Bartsch, born in Esselbach, Germany, arrived in the U.S. on the visa in 1997. But Bartsch's attorney, David Leopold, argued that Bartsch is in the country legally because the U.S. let him return years ago after he and his step-grandfather visited Canada.

Leopold said he had received a call from an immigration agent in Cleveland and simply was told that Bartsch would be released and would receive papers directing him to appear before an immigration judge.

"Nobody's made a determination that he's to be deported. There is no deportation order," Leopold said.

Leopold said he was unsure why there was a sudden change from Wednesday when a Department of Homeland Security attorney said at a bond hearing that the law requiring Bartsch's deportation was clear.

Bartsch's step-grandfather - a U.S. citizen who was his guardian - returned to Germany in the summer, leaving Bartsch behind so he could graduate.

Bartsch discovered the incomplete paperwork when he was searching for documents to show he was an American citizen. When he couldn't find any, he contacted U.S. immigration authorities hoping the office would have records. He was detained and jailed.

Asked if he had any hard feelings about his ordeal, Bartsch said, "No," and added, "At this point, I'm happy. Right now I'm going to get to go home." He said immigration officials "were just doing what they had to do."

He planned a quiet first night back home.

"I'll probably have to catch up with homework. I'll see my girlfriend. That's about it," he said.

"I want to talk to my girlfriend. Seriously, she's been there for me the whole time and I've been calling her like crazy. She's been supportive of me," he said of Ashley Painter.

Painter left for Cleveland as soon as she heard he'd been released. They planned to drive home together and stop for double-cheeseburgers. "That's what he really wants," she said.

She said she hopes Bartsch will now be able to graduate from high school this spring. "I'm praying they're going to give him his citizenship," Painter, 19, said.

Bartsch said that through collect phone calls to his girlfriend, which he said amounted to a bill of more than $400, he learned about the support from his school and community in northwest Ohio.

"It shows that people care. I didn't think that people would care but, there's a lot more supporters out there than I thought there was going to be. I'm glad of everybody out there trying to help me. I thank everybody for what they've done."

Bartsch declined to discuss the intricacies of his case. "I can't really talk about it. It's a complicated thing," he said.

He expects to be back in high school Friday and will continue to work toward graduating with his senior class, he said. And, he said, after graduating he's willing to return to Germany if he must
do so.

"We're thrilled we're going to see him again," said classmate Louis Schulte. "At least he can be home while we continue his case.

"It's just such a depressing feeling to know your friend is in jail."

Copyright © 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed."

Uh oh...he's stopping for double cheeseburgers...will his terrorist activities never end?

What if he was French and not German?

Quoted: What if he was French and not German?

As long as he took an oath to bathe, then fine...