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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:31:32 PM EDT
[#1]
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lol |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:32:11 PM EDT
[#2]
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With everything I have learned. 1. This is going to happen. 2. We are regressing to 1940's war theory. We have done this before 30 cal is bullshit. 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#3]
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If you think this won't be a eventual full fleet replacement of the M4 you are just as wrong as all those that told me this RFP would never happen, and then made fun of me for thinking it would. Yet here we are, No matter what Milley says eventually logistical uniformity is a necessity for military weapons and this will eventually either completely die off and never happen, or it will full scale replace the M4. I believe the M4 was also initially just for those units who were the most rapid deployed as well, yet now it is the standard issue carbine of the US Army, just as the ICSR will be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That isn't what he said. Yet here we are, No matter what Milley says eventually logistical uniformity is a necessity for military weapons and this will eventually either completely die off and never happen, or it will full scale replace the M4. I believe the M4 was also initially just for those units who were the most rapid deployed as well, yet now it is the standard issue carbine of the US Army, just as the ICSR will be. No kidding... |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#4]
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Guys have a hard enough time managing the low impulse of 5.56 Imagine how poorly the shooting will be if they decide to go to 7.62 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Beats teaching troops how to shoot or actually employing weapons squads. Imagine how poorly the shooting will be if they decide to go to 7.62 #jogleethread #notthisshitagain |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:33:15 PM EDT
[#5]
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Yeah, next will be an enhanced 7.62x63mm, 24" barreled, bipod-supported, select fire, gas operated, magazine fed, shoulder weapon to replace the SAW and IAR. http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HCAR-3.jpg 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:33:24 PM EDT
[#6]
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Yeah, next will be an enhanced 7.62x63mm, 24" barreled, bipod-supported, select fire, gas operated, magazine fed, shoulder weapon to replace the SAW and IAR. http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HCAR-3.jpg https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=f53689202076acc298ae9ddb9cd849fc&tab=core&_cview=0 The NGSAR(Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle) is a thing. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:33:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Double Tap
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:34:02 PM EDT
[#8]
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Oh, so the stuff you posted earlier about how "THIS WILL HAPPEN!" is just bullshit speculation? No kidding... |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:34:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Another thing: Wont fire superiority go down with the decreased rate of effective fire from a larger caliber?
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:35:05 PM EDT
[#10]
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Except it is happening......I mean I even posted the RFP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh, so the stuff you posted earlier about how "THIS WILL HAPPEN!" is just bullshit speculation? No kidding... I'll answer for you..l "Because it's speculatory as to whether this goes beyond the test phase." |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:36:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Why not just swap uppers to an 6 or 6.5mm cartridge. Seems like the Grendel or 6.8 would fit the bill and save having to buy all new weapons. Really all that is needed is a barrel and bolt swap.
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:36:27 PM EDT
[#12]
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Then why did you just say it might not happen? Or it leads to the eventual full fleet of the ICSR as the Army standard issue rifle. Those are the two outcomes from this. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:36:32 PM EDT
[#13]
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idiots being idiots. 30 cal is dumb. is part of the move to 7.62 instead of 6.5 because other weapons (belt feds) are set up for 7.62? |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:36:48 PM EDT
[#14]
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Another thing: Wont fire superiority go down with the decreased rate of effective fire from a larger caliber? |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:37:44 PM EDT
[#15]
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I said the only outcomes of this is it either dies...which it won't. Or it leads to the eventual full fleet of the ICSR as the Army standard issue rifle. Those are the two outcomes from this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Then why did you just say it might not happen? Or it leads to the eventual full fleet of the ICSR as the Army standard issue rifle. Those are the two outcomes from this. Yet your OP and other posts imply that it's a done deal. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:37:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Maybe I missunderstood, but to me it sounds like they are just looking for a new Designated Marksmen rifle? 50,000 doesn't sound like nearly enough rifles to outfit even one full Corps.
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:37:53 PM EDT
[#17]
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It seems like certain people are ignoring thousands of years of military history. The best way to defeat an enemy's armor isn't to try and punch through it; it's to poke him somewhere where there is no armor or where it's weaker 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:38:14 PM EDT
[#18]
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is part of the move to 7.62 instead of 6.5 because other weapons (belt feds) are set up for 7.62? We have a ton of SLAP. And we have the new 7.62 ADVAP. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:38:28 PM EDT
[#19]
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You don't have to imagine. They tested that shit in the fucking fifties and came to the same conclusion that you get far better chances to hit inside of 500 meters giving a guy a 5.56 over a .308. #jogleethread #notthisshitagain Now, I would get 100% behind if the Army wanted to do a major caliber shift for MGs. Like 6.5 Creedmoor. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:38:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I missunderstood, but to me it sounds like they are just looking for a new Designated Marksmen rifle? 50,000 doesn't sound like nearly enough rifles to outfit even one full Corps. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:41:29 PM EDT
[#21]
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The mind says that it's a bad choice, but my dick says it's a good choice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, next will be an enhanced 7.62x63mm, 24" barreled, bipod-supported, select fire, gas operated, magazine fed, shoulder weapon to replace the SAW and IAR. http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HCAR-3.jpg 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:44:21 PM EDT
[#22]
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20/30 round mags with a combat load of 210 rounds in 7.62. What's not to love!  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pure folly. Dudes are gonna love carrying 7.62 mags everywhere 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:47:34 PM EDT
[#23]
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Guys have a hard enough time managing the low impulse of 5.56 Imagine how poorly the shooting will be if they decide to go to 7.62 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Beats teaching troops how to shoot or actually employing weapons squads. Imagine how poorly the shooting will be if they decide to go to 7.62 We can afford enough ammo for everyone to shoot qual once per rank. For training we will need conversion caliber kits to 556 to use up all these poodle popper bullets that can't even kill starving Somalis. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:52:08 PM EDT
[#24]
This won't happen, we will test, and then say that the winner just isn't that much better than the M4, and for the money we're better off keeping the M4. Which is military speak for we didn't factor in the costs of ammo, mags, and spare parts, or the cost of pulling out all of our 5.56, mags, and spare parts from every pre deployed storage area around the world, plus every base here and aboard. So while they have authorized money, it is only enough to analyze what the final costs will be, and with everything else we need to spend money on and every branch facing addional cuts as is, the M4 will be deemed satisfactory for the foreseeable future, just like the marines HK's will start to be defunded over time for more F-35 purchases. That's how goverment and budgets work in the real world, it also allows everyone to save face.
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:52:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Enemy body armor.....who's the enemy? Are the faggots in the desert wearing body armor under their night gowns now? Certainly no one could be thinking of the popularity of body armor in the civilian market here in the US....nah, that'd be crazy talk.....
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:53:04 PM EDT
[#26]
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An extra 6 pounds and more bulk for the same amount of ammo... Yaaaaay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pure folly. Dudes are gonna love carrying 7.62 mags everywhere |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:53:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Enemy body armor.....who's the enemy? Are the faggots in the desert wearing body armor under their night gowns now? Certainly no one could be thinking of the popularity of body armor in the civilian market here in the US....nah, that'd be crazy talk..... |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:55:42 PM EDT
[#28]
just posing the question
is there any relationship between the proliferating of the 5.56 AR platform throughout the general population and the government so hastily trying to move away from it i remember reading years ago one of the reasons the Soviets went with the 5.45 projectile was so captured tooling could not be used to produce NATO 5.56 projectiles |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#29]
I would not be surprised if this "let's move to a 7.62x51 as an 'interim' rifle while we work towards a 6.5mm rifle" is just some GO's smokescreen to get us to a 7.62x51 rifle and then stay there indefinitely while the 6.5 issue is "researched." Or, if the General officer driving this train once said, "we need a bigger caliber, maybe like 7.62x51" and the COLs he tasked with this project (who DESPERATELY want to be COL(P)'s) are demanding their staff fudge the data to support 7.62x51 because "that's what The Boss wants."
For those saying, "why not look at 6.5Cm or 6.5 Grendel," I can tell you that while I was not in the infantry and never was part of weapons acquisition, I was involved in plenty of Army initiatives in which stuff that was Not Invented Here was scoffed at. "The civilian world? The civilian world! Bah! They have nothing to offer the military. What do THEY know about ____." There may be an element of that at play, especially if the senior officers involved are not Gun Nuts like us. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:58:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With everything I have learned. 1. This is going to happen. 2. We are regressing to 1940's war theory. We have done this before 30 cal is bullshit. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 3:59:38 PM EDT
[#31]
 Blackout Time
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:01:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Enemy body armor.....who's the enemy? Are the faggots in the desert wearing body armor under their night gowns now? Certainly no one could be thinking of the popularity of body armor in the civilian market here in the US....nah, that'd be crazy talk..... Only the new 7.62 ADVAP can defeat it, it's our only hope. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:04:54 PM EDT
[#33]
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210 round combat load?
They already have enough knee and back issues... |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:05:49 PM EDT
[#34]
If I was president I would fire every stupid officer who every undertook a stupid project for no reason at tax payer expense.
And then arfocm would post infowars articles about how I'm getting rid of all the generals for my NWO coup |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:06:21 PM EDT
[#35]
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Was the XM8 pushed by the Army Chief of Staff? That was before my time really, but this is a CoS project through and through. It's his baby, he went before the Senate Arms Committee and told them we need a 7.62 rifle to defeat Russia!!! Give me money and I'll make it happen. Congress gave him money to make it happen. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:07:00 PM EDT
[#36]
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That is the likely winner IMO. 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:17:43 PM EDT
[#37]
The sad part of this is the 7.62 doesn't have better penetration than 5.56. It has more energy but not penetration.
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:17:52 PM EDT
[#38]
You know, a better idea I think at this point would be creedmoor or 77grain 556, but 308? I don't know.
Or you know why not just ignore the laws and give all our troops AP ammo, but no we have to limit our greatness ... we are America danmit. Or how about AP creedmoor? Oh the possibilities |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:18:33 PM EDT
[#39]
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I think it will get dropped and the M4 will continue. But hey at least they're trying. 
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:19:46 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:23:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Just as wrong in 2017 as it was in 1960
But hey, program directors and test designers need jobs too. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:27:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Do anyone have the exact weight of 210 rounds 5.56 vs 210 rounds 7.62 both in magazine?
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:34:39 PM EDT
[#43]
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Except it is happening......I mean I even posted the RFP. The Army has never stopped dabbling with 7.62 during it's 50 year marriage to 5.56. You don't divorce your spouse of 50 years for the one you barely even dated and unceremoniously dumped a half a century ago when they still have all the disadvantages that caused you to dump them in the first place. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:37:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just posing the question is there any relationship between the proliferating of the 5.56 AR platform throughout the general population and the government so hastily trying to move away from it i remember reading years ago one of the reasons the Soviets went with the 5.45 projectile was so captured tooling could not be used to produce NATO 5.56 projectiles |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:44:23 PM EDT
[#45]
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Wait... What? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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just posing the question is there any relationship between the proliferating of the 5.56 AR platform throughout the general population and the government so hastily trying to move away from it i remember reading years ago one of the reasons the Soviets went with the 5.45 projectile was so captured tooling could not be used to produce NATO 5.56 projectiles 5.56 could be swaged to 5.45 but not vise versa |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:45:04 PM EDT
[#46]
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Just as wrong in 2017 as it was in 1960 But hey, program directors and test designers need jobs too. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:46:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Fuck yeah! Bring back the Garand in 7.62! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/213987/IMG_4136-272476.JPG Not!
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:47:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Jesus christ, the Army is autistic. Constantly screaming "WE NEED A NEW GUN WE NEED A NEW GUN WE NEED A NEW GUN!" while rocking back and fourth on the floor.
It won't be the MK17, since our F35 budget would be eaten up by the cost of repairing trashed rifles from performing mildly strenuous infantry tasks, like stacking guns in the truck to go to the range. My best guess would be something KACish or the LMT. Maybe something like the LWRC REPR, but I highly doubt it. Going from 5.56 to 7.62 for standard issue is weapons-grade retarded. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:52:12 PM EDT
[#49]
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But not portablegorilla?
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Posted: 8/5/2017 4:53:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck yeah! Bring back the Garand in 7.62! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/213987/IMG_4136-272476.JPG
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