Quoted: Names, please. And you're apparently missing the point that I work in a goddamned newsroom. So I think it's a biiiiiiiiiiit of a stretch to tell me I don't know what I'm talking.

Yes, it's nice to see you agree with me that they are goddamned newsrooms.  Spewing bullshit to all those that will believe the press is beyond reproach.  I'm old enough to know better.  You obviously aren't.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about some due process against the media when they screw something up that ruins the lives of people they were wrong about?   Seems to me they get a free pass to go a head do it again.  The very fact a "journalist" was believed over numerous U.S. Marines is bullshit.  I hope to hell that "journalist" is flipping burgers somewhere, but some how I doubt it.  He is probably still looking for his next big "story". Due process is what is happening to the guy in Iraq.  Maybe not in the form you like or want, but that is what is happening.  They could have just killed him on the spot when they found out what he was doing, but the very fact he is still breathing speaks volumes. He will face the justice system of nation is far fairer than when it was under Saddam. Journalist can and are sued for libel quite frequently. But you don't want due process, you want muzzling. Really, where did I say that or even imply that?  How about just getting the facts verified before running off and filing a story? By the way, good job on putting words in my mouth.  You are well on your way to fitting in with the type or reporter you claim doesn't exist.  I suggest you review all my posts in this thread and print a retraction.

He works in a goddamn newsroom.  Putting words in peoples mouths is his fucking job.  There will be no retraction because his shit don't stink because he works in the news media.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Meh, I don't need to - you seem to be doing a fine job of undermining yourself. BTW, the last look I took at the Constitution of Iraq indicated that at trial, he will be presumed innocent. A presumption of innocence is really quite irrelevant when you can be detained indefinitely without charges being filed or evidence being presented. Gun owners have been subject to this same sort of bullshit persecution for years. But I guess as long as it doesn't affect us we'll just sit back and watch the show. They found IED materials on him. Using your analogy, yes its not illegal to take picture of drug dealers, it IS illegal taking pictures of a drug dealer while holding a big ass bag of his coke on you. You know, you talk big about moral equivalancy junk, but I bet you would be jumping all over a US reporter if he was running around AT4ing VBIEDs. The IED evidence they found, again, has not been presented either for charges or for examination. So to be entirely honest, they claim to have IED evidence against him. Given that "IED materials" can be found at Radio Shack, and the dude lived above a damn electrician's shop, this is about as surprising as finding hotdogs at a football game. I would be slack-jawed if a reporter was At4ing anything. Mainly because by involving himself he would be putting the life of every single press agent in jeopardy. I don't really see your point. The fact is, we either respect free press or we don't. If someone wanted to start a magazine called "The U.S. is the Worst Damn Country - EVAAAAR!" they would be no less entitled to publish in the U.S. than SWAT magazine.

You have assumed the US miitary to be liars without a fair trial. IED materials can be found at radioshack, just like pot can be found growing wild, but when you are hanging out taking photos of a drug dealer with pot in your pocket, its kinda suspect.

This is exactly what our reporter friend was doing.



And as for you asking under what grounds he can be executed, the geneva convention. Ununiformed combatants can be executred, there is much precident for this.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about some due process against the media when they screw something up that ruins the lives of people they were wrong about?   Seems to me they get a free pass to go a head do it again.  The very fact a "journalist" was believed over numerous U.S. Marines is bullshit.  I hope to hell that "journalist" is flipping burgers somewhere, but some how I doubt it.  He is probably still looking for his next big "story". Due process is what is happening to the guy in Iraq.  Maybe not in the form you like or want, but that is what is happening.  They could have just killed him on the spot when they found out what he was doing, but the very fact he is still breathing speaks volumes. He will face the justice system of nation is far fairer than when it was under Saddam. Journalist can and are sued for libel quite frequently. But you don't want due process, you want muzzling. And there it is...  The media makes shit up every day and are not held responsible for it.  There was an error.  Someone screwed up.  You are making these exact excuses right in this thread.  The problem with the media is they are not held accountable for their fuckups, which are many.

What "accountability" do you want and what excuses have I made?

The media does not "make shit up" because if you try you quickly run into a wall of lawyers. The two bullets picture was taken in Iraq by an Agence French Presse photographer - has he taken any more photos you've seen since then? What was the last news report you heard Dan Rather give?

Again, you want to create rules for the press that would do nothing except muzzle criticism of policies that you just happen to like. If it's something you don't happen to like, well criticize away.

Quoted: What "accountability" do you want and what excuses have I made? The media does not "make shit up" because if you try you quickly run into a wall of lawyers. The two bullets picture was taken in Iraq by an Agence French Presse photographer - has he taken any more photos you've seen since then? What was the last news report you heard Dan Rather give? Again, you want to create rules for the press that would do nothing except muzzle criticism of policies that you just happen to like. If it's something you don't happen to like, well criticize away.

The news media doesn't make shit up?  You ever heard of Jayson Blair?  

The news media today is a fucking joke.  There is no way to deny it.  But, as a part of the news media you can't do anything but spin.  Pathetic.

Quoted: Quoted: Is this ever going to be qualified? Or just that since I have a different opinion I'm obviously "one of them-thar terrist mohammidans." I honestly do not give the slightest hint of a fuck about your "different opinions." You and your ilk are tools for the enemy, and your posts in this thread do nothing but reinforce this observation.

Say what you mean. Quit beating around the bush. You (and most people) couldn't care less about a free press. You want cheerleading. 100% our side, no complaints, no gripes, Rah Rah Rah.

I am under no obligation to support you, and your default to calling me a traitor only underscores that I will forever keep my second amendment close to guard my first. If people like you ever head this country I'm afraid both will become endangered.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is this ever going to be qualified? Or just that since I have a different opinion I'm obviously "one of them-thar terrist mohammidans." I honestly do not give the slightest hint of a fuck about your "different opinions." You and your ilk are tools for the enemy, and your posts in this thread do nothing but reinforce this observation. Say what you mean. Quit beating around the bush. You (and most people) couldn't care less about a free press. You want cheerleading. 100% our side, no complaints, no gripes, Rah Rah Rah. I am under no obligation to support you, and your default to calling me a traitor only underscores that I will forever keep my second amendment close to guard my first. If people like you ever head this country I'm afraid both will become endangered.

Nope, you are obviously under no obligation to support the US military.  That is painfully obvious.

Here is a book you should read.  I will buy you a copy if you would like.

www.amazon.com/Bias-Insider-Exposes-Media-Distorts/dp/B000ECXDVC/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195708502&sr=8-1

Nice try playing the victim.  If both side were always presented people could make decisions for themselves.  I want as much information as I can get even if it is something I don't want to hear.  If I want cheerleaders I can listen to talk radio.  

I want all sides of the story, not just what YOU feel I should hear.

I still remember the time leading up to the assault weapons ban of 94.  Every time the pending legislation was mentioned television, they would show someone firing a full auto Uzi or something similar.

Or how about the GM side saddle tank fiasco?  Completely rigged to get ratings.

Lots more where that came from.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Meh, I don't need to - you seem to be doing a fine job of undermining yourself. BTW, the last look I took at the Constitution of Iraq indicated that at trial, he will be presumed innocent. A presumption of innocence is really quite irrelevant when you can be detained indefinitely without charges being filed or evidence being presented. Gun owners have been subject to this same sort of bullshit persecution for years. But I guess as long as it doesn't affect us we'll just sit back and watch the show. They found IED materials on him. Using your analogy, yes its not illegal to take picture of drug dealers, it IS illegal taking pictures of a drug dealer while holding a big ass bag of his coke on you. You know, you talk big about moral equivalancy junk, but I bet you would be jumping all over a US reporter if he was running around AT4ing VBIEDs. The IED evidence they found, again, has not been presented either for charges or for examination. So to be entirely honest, they claim to have IED evidence against him. Given that "IED materials" can be found at Radio Shack, and the dude lived above a damn electrician's shop, this is about as surprising as finding hotdogs at a football game. I would be slack-jawed if a reporter was At4ing anything. Mainly because by involving himself he would be putting the life of every single press agent in jeopardy. I don't really see your point. The fact is, we either respect free press or we don't. If someone wanted to start a magazine called "The U.S. is the Worst Damn Country - EVAAAAR!" they would be no less entitled to publish in the U.S. than SWAT magazine. You have assumed the US miitary to be liars without a fair trial. IED materials can be found at radioshack, just like pot can be found growing wild, but when you are hanging out taking photos of a drug dealer with pot in your pocket, its kinda suspect. This is exactly what our reporter friend was doing. And as for you asking under what grounds he can be executed, the geneva convention. Ununiformed combatants can be executred, there is much precident for this.

I can't make assumptions about whether the military is lying or not. They won't say anything for me to proclaim, "I agree," or "what a pile of shit." This is the crux of the problem, there are no charges and no presentation of evidence. Just some guy in jail.

There has been no evidence presented that he has taken any action against anybody. All we have are photos that he took and the open testimony of his friends and colleagues who seem to think this is all ridiculous.

So they aren't playing by rules you like?  That is what has you upset?  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is this ever going to be qualified? Or just that since I have a different opinion I'm obviously "one of them-thar terrist mohammidans." I honestly do not give the slightest hint of a fuck about your "different opinions." You and your ilk are tools for the enemy, and your posts in this thread do nothing but reinforce this observation. Say what you mean. Quit beating around the bush. You (and most people) couldn't care less about a free press. You want cheerleading. 100% our side, no complaints, no gripes, Rah Rah Rah. I am under no obligation to support you, and your default to calling me a traitor only underscores that I will forever keep my second amendment close to guard my first. If people like you ever head this country I'm afraid both will become endangered.

I'm all for accurate reporting of events in Iraq and elsewhere.

Funny you should mention that, I post things every day that your honest and fair media never covers...

It's kind of my thing here on Arfcom, I've been doing it consistently for nearly two years now.

But your fair and honest media will always find the time in their schedules (between those vital reports about Paris Hilton and Britney Spears) to update the U.S. body count, every successful car bomb and every successful IED, and anytime there's ever the possibility Americans or our Allies may have killed some civilians they let the whole world know about it, updates on the hour.

Spare me your bullshit, like I said, your opinions and your media are worth less than shit to me.

Bugger this. I'm going to bed.

Good night all. Happy Thanksgiving.
I'll make sure to write extra liberally-ish-esque for you on Friday. I'll have to wedge it in between my blood offerings to Chemosh and the newsroom heroine shoot/gay orgy/troop undermining activities.

I promise I'll come up with something.

Quoted: Bugger this. I'm going to bed. Good night all. Happy Thanksgiving. I'll make sure to write extra liberally-ish-esque for you on Friday. I'll have to wedge it in between my blood offerings to Chemosh and the newsroom heroine shoot/gay orgy/troop undermining activities. I promise I'll come up with something.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Be safe and remember it is just an internet discussion.

I wonder why Jonas never got beyond E-3.  His MOS was 11B1O.

Quoted: I can't make assumptions about whether the military is lying or not. They won't say anything for me to proclaim, "I agree," or "what a pile of shit." This is the crux of the problem, there are no charges and no presentation of evidence. Just some guy in jail. There has been no evidence presented that he has taken any action against anybody. All we have are photos that he took and the open testimony of his friends and colleagues who seem to think this is all ridiculous.

You can't make assumptions on who is lying, but assume the military is.

You assume there is no evidence presented proving he is guilty, yet you haven't been involved in any of this.  You are assuming the US military is lying about the evidence.

You assume his friends would tell the truth or even know what he was up to.  You again assume the US Military is lying.

Given that you know nothing about this case other than the information in the news article, you sure seem to think the US military is a bunch of lying idiots.  

Quoted: Bugger this. I'm going to bed. Good night all. Happy Thanksgiving. I'll make sure to write extra liberally-ish-esque for you on Friday. I'll have to wedge it in between my blood offerings to Chemosh and the newsroom heroine shoot/gay orgy/troop undermining activities. I promise I'll come up with something.

I guess providing fair, unbiased reporting without smug arrogance would be a good start.

I recall another report about this guy over the past few days. The description of the IED components found IN his place was quite specific. I'll see if I can find the article again.

From www.pbase.com/jonaswright:

[INTERESTING NAME] | profile  | guestbook  | all galleries | recent tree view  | thumbnails These are my pictures. Hope you like them. I live in north Florida now, and do most of my photography there. If I am shooting in strange and exotic places I will make a note.

Would this be you?

Search on "[INTERESTING NAME]"  produced this recent article: Deputies: Meth operation used stolen Tyndall equipment, chemicals

Consistent with this from page 1 of this thread:

Quoted: Might that be because we was a reporter covering the insurgents? I'm doing a story on meth production right now, and have info on my computer about how its done. According to this Daffy Duck logic we can now infer that "OH NOEZ JW IS MAKING TEH METH!" And again, if they have evidence why won't they present it? Is or is not Iraq a sovereign nation capable of holding its own trials? A cadre of respected journalists who have worked with this man have said trying to link him with the terrorist is utter and total shit.

Here's a nice spread on the pbase site:
www.pbase.com/jonaswright/school_of_the_americas_protest

Which leads me to think that there is more to your angle than simply the  AP guy's 'oppression' at the hands of the military.  And makes me question whether you truly will remember and adhere to what you said on page three of this thread:

Quoted: If the evidence is produced and links this guy to a crime then by all means string his ass up.

+++++++++
From ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=618880&page=1

Quoted: Quoted: We will be there a long time.  Need a base to strike the Mideast from quickly when necessary.   And as long as we're there playing empire our citizens are going to keep dying.

etc.
+++++

And further checking produced this article dated 10/25/07 in the "Gulf Defender" which appears to be a publication of Tyndall AFB.

www.tyndall.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123073260

Which includes the sentence, "Panama City News Herald writer and Gulf Defender editor, [INTERESTING NAME AGAIN] played the part of an aggressive media member."  (My underlining)

So naturally, I'm curious about this trail of information and it's ramifications.  Are you the editor of the "Gulf Defender"?  If not, please explain how the editor's name is found on the pbase.com web site that has your screen name in the link.  

If you ARE the same person, how do you see the opinions you've expressed here criticizing the US military being consistent with your duties as the editor of an AFB newspaper editor???

There are lots of 'dots' here that seem to be either connected, or beg your explanation.

I noticed that School of Americas protest section as well.  Symptomatic of being a dumb shit.  We started the school to equip the military in Central and South America to fight communist insurgents and other bad people by training them on current military tactics and strategy with somewhat of a focus on counterinsurgency.  If you protest the School of the Americas, you are a friggin supporter of Communism.  He hates this country and what it stands for, the US Military, and everything we stand for.

Just had an interesting thought -  his posts here blather on about the military releasing all the proof and evidence it has, which would likely include informants' identies among other things.  

Yet if the tables were turned, and it was the military seeking HIS sources, do you think he would cough them up, or would he claim the protection of some so-called "shield law"?

The media is a battlefield that Tangos exploit regularly and the "press" seems all too willing to be the delivery method for AQ propaganda...  At some point, the "press" crosses a line that makes them an arm of the tangos.  This man did that.  He chose to knowingly be with tangos and have intimate knowledge of their operations against US forces.  Those tapes of US Soldiers being killed, vehicles hit by IEDs, etc...where do you think they come from?  Many come from the "press" who just happened to be tipped off that there would be an IED attack on US troops at this place and time.  

Funny how their first thought is to film US troops being killed and not warn those American Soldiers about the IED that is going to kill them...

That is where you cross the line and become an enemy combatant and I have no qualms about that reporter being taken into custody.  He is in jail with his brothers.  

If I recall correctly, non uniformed combatants on the battlefield can be shot as spies...  Nice things happen to nice people.

Well we knew Al Qaeda’s chief spokesman was an American… now we know he has an account here.

"The media does not "make shit up" because if you try you quickly run into a wall of lawyers" Jonaswright 2007.

Quoted: "The media does not "make shit up" because if you try you quickly run into a wall of lawyers" Jonaswright 2007.

That's some serious BS right there.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Earlier this week, the Pentagon called Hussein a "terrorist media operative who infiltrated the AP." Berger said only that Hussein had been detained "as a result of his interactions with insurgent activities." A statement not backed up by anybody or anything. Of course the Pentagon refuses to produce whatever evidence it supposedly has and has not allowed the AP regular access I'll state publicly ANY country, ANY where, who charges ANY body for a crime without allowing the body of evidence to be examined or presenting charges is a failing and unjust country. As far as anybody can tell, essentially this guy is in jail for taking pictures of the other side. He's not being held on charges... He is being detained, IN A WARZONE, for acting in support of hostile forces (wouldn't be the first)... The status is closer to POW/enemy-combatant, than it is to suspected criminal... That status does not require charges or evidence.... That status allows him to be detained until the end of hostilities.... He is being held in his own country, and not being told why. Nor is he or anyone being given a substantial reason to deprive him of his liberty and the right to free press that we supposedly value in this country. The man is an unlawful (out of uniform) enemy combatant, who was captured under arms (IED materials) against US forces... At one time, he could have been shot right then and there, no 'rights' or similar... Now, we hold him until the end of hostilities.... In your sick & twisted world he's just a reporter... In my world, he's a goddamn enemy spy, and should be treated accordingly...

+1

Short rope; long drop.

I'm gathering PRK must be a PC local, maybe even stationed at Tyndall. If not, his/her Google-fu is top notch.

Yes, I am the author of the meth story. I am also the editor of the Gulf Defender. Until recently the GD was the property of Tyndall AFB, but due to budget constraints they had to quit producing it. The Panama City News Herald bought the paper and is now running it commercially (and quite successfully!) The 325th Fighter Wing Public Affairs office still publishes an online version called the Web Defender - I run their stories regularly in the GD.

I did go to the school of the Americas protest because I wanted experience doing photography in that sort of environment. I was not a part of the rally - most of the time I was standing in a holly bush trying to get shots. It was hands down one of the weirdest, BOish and most bizarre sights I've ever seen in my life. It was almost like going to the zoo, except with more Che crap. (Although the family selling BBQ across from the vegan booth was freaking hilarious, there was just no way to get it in the shot.)

I was part of the training exercise at Tyndall (you can read my story on it here if you'd like.
It was actually a lot of fun, I went with an AF major who was partner in aggressive media roleplaying to get ICEEs afterwards.

As neither a military member nor a DoD civilian there are no constraints against me vetting my opinions. I do not do so in the Gulf Defender out of professional courtesy.

My general opinion is that the US military is comprised of some of the best, bravest and most noble individuals our country has to offer - and that these brave souls are being used to enact lousy foreign policy while our own borders rot.  I am not anti-military by any stretch of the imagination, I love my job and working with the AF, even if they won't let me take a Raptor up for a spin.

In all seriousness, if you ever find element of poor journalism, bias or just sheer bad writing I'd encourage you to contact me. Everyone struggles to overcome their own biases, I like to think I do a good job. Maybe I don't.

I, in no way, shape or form think the media in this country is great or even good for that matter. I want to tear my hair out every time another damn OJ report comes in or another picture of Britney Spears flashing her baby shooter comes out. Frankly, a lot of our media is absolute, grade F, turd with billions of dollars in financing keeping it from being flushed.

Anyway. Hope you and yours have a good Thanksgiving. Enjoy the bird (and read the paper.)

The elitist press in this country are not the friends of the military or the public.

Remember that Italian bitch that got kidnapped in Iraq?  I had to put my ass out on the line with the rest of my squad to try to find her.  When I later found out that she was a socialist and heard what she said about the troops that were tasked with kicking down doors to rescue her I was pissed and still am.

Then there was the CNN guy who showed up in one of the Iraqi police stations I worked in who wanted the IPs to escort him to a home in Sadr City that a kidnapping occured at (without US escort).  When I told him he wasn't going anywhere because I wasn't going to have to hunt for him later or pull his headless corpse out of a ditch he pitched a bitch, called me a nazi and said I was violating his First Amendment rights.  My platoon leader had him detained and 3rd ID sent two Bradleys to pick him up.

I have a very low opinion of the press.

Quoted: Quoted: "The media does not "make shit up" because if you try you quickly run into a wall of lawyers" Jonaswright 2007. That's some serious BS right there.

No, that is sig line material