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Posted: 1/22/2006 1:13:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Offering his services to the Continental Navy, Captain Barry took command of USS Effingham, named for the Earl of Effingham, a British General who resigned his comission rather than fight against the colonists. He was forced to scuttle the partially completed vessel to avoid capture. He fought ashore with Marines and militia until he put together a group of small craft and began harassing British vessels in the area. While subsequent ships were named for the city in North Carolina, the first USS Raleigh was named for Sir Walter Raleigh years before the city was founded. Also an Englishman, Sir Walter Raleigh died 150 years before "America" existed. Raleigh, commanded by Captain Barry, fought the Royal Navy off the coast of New England. USS Barry, is the second ship of the same class as Winston S. Churchill. She is named for the "Father of the Navy" (Continental and United States) Commodore Barry, who was born in Ireland. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Who cares. Strap'em to a Tomahawk and launch them into Mogadishu. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:00:20 PM EDT
[#3]
News Flash****
Jesse Jackson has just called on the racist Bush government to release the victims of white military opression. Harry Bellafonte joined the calls for an independent counsel investigation into the racially insensitive actions of using a naval warship named after a white "massa" to illegally detain the "kings and queens of Africa". |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:06:05 PM EDT
[#4]
That's a fine looking ship. Isn't the penalty for piracy still execution? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:07:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Do dhows have radios? Assume for the sake of discussion, this one did, does the "Bridge Watch" speak English? Do they have an up-to-date-copy of H.O. 102 or equivalent on board? How did we know they were bad-guys then?
 It appears that it was a pirated or hijacked vessel, in that case once it was determined who the legal owner was it would be returned to them. If it was a "pirate" vessel that had value, it likely would be sold at auction, undortunately I doubt the crew gets prize money anymore. A genuine run of the mill pos dhow would either be given away to somebody deserving or sunk. Can we summarily two block the blaggards? Not any more, rats. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:11:49 PM EDT
[#6]
 
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:13:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Relax, buckaroo, it was just a question. No, I didn't know that Churchill's mother was American, but that doesn't change the fact that he is associated entirely with the British government and would not be considered by anybody an "American." I don't mind that we have a ship named after the guy. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:13:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the info |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:14:41 PM EDT
[#9]
USS Winston S. Churchill DDG 81
A couple of shots from those 5" guns will get the attention of most any unarmed vessel. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:16:43 PM EDT
[#10]
IIRC,after WWII didnt congress give Churchill US citizenship
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:20:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Should have lit em up with the Seawhiz.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:45:31 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:03:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Wouldnt work, If I remember correctly Churchill is one of the new Batch II Burkes with a hanger and a Seahawk  There is no boat that can out run a Seahawk. And the Seahawk carries Penguin ASMs And they may have some Seahawk R types out now with the stores wings that allow them to carry Hellfire and 2.75in rockets- or Penguin. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:07:48 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:09:36 PM EDT
[#15]
My guess would be more 25mm chain gun than a couple of 5" VT frag rounds. It was just a dhow, not a warship. BZ Churchill. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:12:12 PM EDT
[#16]
IIRC, the Flight IIA Burke destroyers like the Winston Churchill had their Harpoon missile armament removed. In that case, what would be the primary weapon to sink enemy ships?
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:19:45 PM EDT
[#17]
You are thinking of the Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates that had their Mk 13 launcher removed. DDGs can still pack Standard Missiles (SAMs) and Tomahawk in VLS cells and Harpoons from the cannister. I haven't heard of the Harpoon launcher being removed, but I will have a look next time I drive by the pier. This ship has the new 5" 62 caliber gun that is capable of firing the ERGM as well as a helo hangar. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:21:03 PM EDT
[#18]
NOT meant to be a thread 'jack...but... About twenty years ago this really happened: We were in the North Arabian Sea chasing carrier Constellation. About 200 miles NW of us near the entrance of the Persian Gulf was the ancient repair ship Jason (AR 8). Commissioned in 1940, she was at the time, one of the Navy's premiere repair ships..and one of the very few with mixed crews.  Atmospheric conditions were very good for VHS radio skip on the day in question and we were overhearing bridge to bridge radio chatter all the way from the Gulf. IIRC, this is the gist of what we heard: (Female voice, probably the Officer of the Deck.)  "Unknown vessel, this is United States Navy WARSHIP 8. I hold you on my port bow at 11,000 yards on a course of 135 degrees at a speed of ten knots. What is your port of origin, your destination and your cargo?" (No answer.) (Same female voice, repeats order to unknown vessel...now with a bit of irritation in voice.) (Male voice with heavy Middle Eastern accent...in broken English.) "How big are your tits?" <<At this point OUR Officer of the Deck calls some of us to the pilot house to listen in.  >>(Now obviously VERY PISSED OFF female OOD in USS JASON repeats request for info.) "Unknown vessel, this is United States Navy WARSHIP 8. I hold you on my port bow at 11,000 yards on a course of 135 degrees at a speed of ten knots. What is your port of origin, your destination and your cargo?" I DEMAND you respond immediately or we will be forced to take appropriate measures. "<<Now we're busting up laughing.>> (Male voice with heavy Middle Eastern accent...in broken English.) "I want to fuck you in the ass!"   (Once again...from JASON.) "Unknown vessel, this IS an American warship 8. What is your port of origin, your destination, and your cargo?" At this point the Arab responed by stating he was from Dubia, on his way to Aden, Yemen with a load of pig iron. She missed the response...and queried him AGAIN! At THIS point, OUR OOD, a half-crazed Texan from Waco said in a loud clear voice, "He says he's from Dubai, headed to Aden, and carrying PIG iron!" "Thank you...  |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:23:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Bring back the "q" ships
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:23:51 PM EDT
[#20]
I was wrong. A quick Google check shows that Harpoons have been removed. For a larger ship than a dhow, the Captain could use the 5" gun or a Standard missile. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:24:13 PM EDT
[#21]
I suspect they did not use VT ammo. I would have selected BL&P. The 25mm would be a poor choice unless I was very close. To much chance of killing the pricks. With the 5" I can almost ensure a shot ahead with a nice splash for effect. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:25:27 PM EDT
[#22]
.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:28:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Cool. I didn't know Standards could be used in an anti-ship role. How effective are they? I'm assuming they have a blast fragmentation warhead and not the penetrating warhead of the Harpoon. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:34:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Aye, Aye Sir! Party lashed for launch Sir!,,, ARRRRRRR 
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:34:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Yes, they can be used in the surface mode...and they are very effective. The max effectgive range of the Standard in surface mode is roughly the horizon. The Harpoon has a range of about +80nm...well over the horizon. The Standard flies at Mach 4 so it gets there VERY quickly. Harpoon is a Mach .9 bird. In Operation Praying Mantis, one of our ships fired a Standard followed by a Harpoon at one of the Iranian ships. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:41:58 PM EDT
[#26]
They are very effective. They were the only weapon used in the last USN surface action, Operation Preying Mantis in 1987 against the Iranian Navy. They only attempted to launch one ship launched Harpoon in that engagement- fortunately it was aborted as it would have started WWIII. The intended target turned out to be a Soviet Navy DDG coming to see what the noise was about. Thats when they realized that the Harpoons huge beyond visual range ability was mostly wasted. Without a free fire zone the size of the North Atlantic free of third country shipping you cannot safely fire a Harpoon past horizon range. Standard is only effective to the horizon, but its increasingly hard to imagine ever being allowed to engage another vessel without positive visual ID. We did use air-launched Harpoon from A-6Es in the same engagement, and also once against Lybian FACs in 1986. They could use more of the Harpoons range because they had a long range zoom FLIR ball. They still could not use its maximum range safely. This is why virtually all air dropped Harpoon either have been or will be converted into SLAM's with the active radar seeker replaced with a IIR seeker and a data link that allowes man in the loop control all the way to maximum range. Oddly there is no attempt being made to make a surface ship version of SLAM. However they are experimenting with using the Standard missile as a land attack missile now. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:57:44 PM EDT
[#27]
You know I just went to Wikipedia and their entry on Operation Preying Mantis credits all the US surface to surface missile hits to Harpoons.
But I distinctly remember the entry on the (unfortunately now extinct) Warships1.com going into quite a bit of detail that they were mostly Standard missiles fired. Who is in error I wonder? Do we have anyone who was there on this board? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:01:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Well, slap my T-bar and shiver me clips.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:32:00 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:36:38 PM EDT
[#30]
 Jan. 21: USS Winston S. Churchill follows a suspected pirate vessel in Indian Ocean.  Jan. 21: A boarding team from the USS Winston S. Churchill approaches a suspected pirate vessel.  Jan. 21: Crew members assemble on deck aboard a ship suspected of piracy. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 5:24:15 PM EDT
[#31]
That ship look like they could, if times were really rough, haul some canvas out of storage and string up sails. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 5:42:44 PM EDT
[#32]
They could forget about pulling along side and just pull through the other ship!  BigDozer66 |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 9:28:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Warning shots, according to the news stations. Funny how quickly BGs give up when you use a little force. 
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Posted: 1/22/2006 9:48:10 PM EDT
[#34]
The Talos and Terriers had an anti-surface capability, I expect the Tartars did also. I can't think of too many big ships that wouldn't be badly damaged if not destroyed by a hit from a Talos no matter what warhead it had. Imagine something the rough size and shape of a medium telephone pole smacking end on at Mach 2 or so with the warhead and then around 3/4 or more of the propellant smacking into the resulting cavity.
The Terriers and Talos were beam riders in the anti-surface mode. Terriers probably would have been a pretty nasty hitter too. Not as big but probably about half the propellant left. Harpoon came out while I was still in the fleet and it was primarily thought of as an open ocean weapon. You would potentially launch on target data developed by passive tracking techniques, or EW information, preferably both. Had a variety of targeting modes some of which were "tunable" to filter out other ships in the vicinity. Mostly launch on a line of bearing, and you could add in a range perameter. Ideally you would be able to positively id a target by some means, helo, distinct electronic emissions, etc. It was pretty much taken for granted that it shouldn't be used in a target rich environment when most of the "targets" weren't hostile. Technology at that time wasn't sufficient to pick out the "right" target in a group of "wrong" targets. Now there are a variety of smart or brilliant seekers that might be used. Now if there was only one contact out there. No problems. Anything much larger than 20mm is overkill on a dhow. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 9:55:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Those rules still in effect? |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 2:06:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Winston Churchill (a relative of the Roosevelts, BTW) was a great enough man to be an American hero as well as well as a British one. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 2:59:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Hopefully the LCS will be doing this work.
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Posted: 1/25/2006 12:52:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Is the Cole in your screen name in reference to DDG 67? |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:17:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Where does the navy get off boarding ships on the high seas at will? What law do they fall under to do this other than we are bigger than you? This is not funny or right, no matter what the other ship is doing unless you can see someone is about to be hurt. The navy is for war, and not a police force for the worlds seas. How can you look at a ship, and say THOSE ARE PIRATES!!! LETS GET THEM. We do crap like this and we wonder why the world hates us. If that ship is registered in Somalia, let them take care of it. If the ship is reg. with the U.S. then go for it if they called for help, but to just say "LET'S TAKE LOOK JUST BECAUSE" well that is wrong. I wonder how many times this has happened that we DON'T HEAR ABOUT??? Maybe they pick the right one this time, and post it all over the world as a look what we did, and how good we did it. Heck, a broken clock is still right twice a day.
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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:25:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Convention on the High Seas, you damned idiot. Specifically, Article 19:
You really aren't too bright, are you? |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:44:35 AM EDT
[#41]
I agree with you completely, well except for the name calling. Anyway, my point is in order for article 19 to be in effect, they have to have got a report or a distress call saying they need help. You can not just pick out a ship and board it. If they had a call or report, then fine they were within their rights to do so. There was no mention of that anywhere. Read article 5. The state has the jurisdiction. Again, I am not saying that this should not have been done, but under what jurisdiction. Once we throw law a side, we are in trouble. It said they boarded an "APPARENT PIRATE SHIP". They were not even sure when they boarded it. Then detained 26 men for questioning. If they were pirates, and they knew that, why ask questions. That is what the courts do. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:56:29 AM EDT
[#42]
The Navy said it captured the dhow in response to a report from the International Maritime Bureau in Kuala Lumpur on Friday that said pirates had fired on the MV Delta Ranger, a Bahamian-flagged bulk carrier that was passing some 320 kilometers (200 miles) off the central eastern coast of Somalia. doh |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:58:15 AM EDT
[#43]
+1 What are we going to do with Pirates? Hang them from a yardarm? Nothing is going to happen to these dirtbags. Max |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:03:55 AM EDT
[#44]
I am completely wrong!! How I skipped over that I will never know, but you are right, and they were right, and I was wrong. I agree, blow them out of the water. Man, I need glasses. Sorry. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:05:50 AM EDT
[#45]
To reply to the above
and
Therefore, the Convention on the High Seas, 1958, specifically permits any interested warship to do exactly what USS Churchill did. Both ships were in international waters (87km off the Somali coast), and they had specific intelligence as to the identity of the dhow.
In addition, it has been a fact of customary international law for the last 500 years that piracy is repugnant and liable to suppression by any means necessary. One of the 1st foreign acts of the U.S. Navy/ Marine Corp was the supression of the Barbary Pirates in the Mediteranian. U.S., British, French and Spanish warships routinly attacked pirates on the open seas until quite recently. As a soverign nation, the U.S. is well within its rights to hang the pirates from the yardarm if they so chose. ETA: Just read you mea culpa. Fair enough. Its easy to skim over some bits. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:07:24 AM EDT
[#46]
I didn't get a chance to thank you for that link. It is a good one, and a keeper. Thanks Tomislav no hard feelings I hope. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:13:42 AM EDT
[#47]
I agree with you. I am saying have a report or that is racial profiling of the high seas!! LOL. Also art. 23 says alot about hot pursuits and how and where they start and end. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:24:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Racially profiling- Meh.
They'd need specific intelligence. That part of the world is packed to the gun'les with dodgy little boats travelling up and down the coast. Not to mention big ones. You'd need to deploy the entire U.S. Navy off Somalia to stop and search every African or Arab- manned boat, and you'd still miss the pirates. It's a shame that the USN/RN/RAN can't do anything about SE Asia. Piracy there is the worst in the world, and the most vicsious, but it all takes place in territorial waters, and none of those tin pot corrupt nations want to do anything about it. CINCPAC said last year that it might be a good idea for the USN to patrol the Straits of Mallacca to stop the piracy problem. The Indonesians and Malasians screamed about soverginty, then started mounting joint patrols with Singapore. Just as bad, the route from Mindinao in the Philipines to Borneo in Indonesia is a well known transit lane for terrorists. Jemar Islamiya, Laskaar Jihad, MILF et. al. go back and forth all the time, and yet nobody does anything about it. 
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:41:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Subsequent interviews with members of the Teams that boarded the dhow, say that there was a major concern that they were walking into an ambush.
Link to story / Interview thankfully that wasn't the case. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:44:29 AM EDT
[#50]
Much of the Piracy in SE Asia is the local police/military indulging in a little 'freelance' employment.... ANdy |
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And here I was thinking they were using "sailor language" to intimidate the Somali pirates into submission. 