It's not his fault, he just needs a new agent.  It's tough to find good help these days...

ETH - I wonder if your Grandfather was thinking of this quote at the time he made that statement.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.
  From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, and is always followed by a dictatorship.
  The average of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage."

— Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1747-1813), Scottish jurist and historian. Professor of Universal History at Edinburgh University in the late 18th Century. From the 1801 Collection of his lectures.

I really wish I could find something wrong with the above.
But I cannot.

Excellent quotation.  Unfortunately, we only have one and one half step to go.

Although Eric's position on Israel is well known he was generous enough to find and post this link.

For all of us actively involved in this debate this is worth a couple of minutes to just read the summary.

Accountants are worse than lawyers???? BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!  LOL!!!!

I guess that's why the Capitol bldg in Wash D.C. is full of ....accountants.


Anything else you say from now on will be colored by your statements above.

Accts worse than lawyers.  PUHHHLEEEEEZE.

[:D]

Had I appeared it would not have been in the North sky !!
(Maybe I should consider a new agent.)

Ask recent Enron ex-employees which are worse.  I predict it will be close.

I was told this by a reliable source, but I haven't found a source to corroberate.

Here is a listing of purchases made by Israel as compiled by a Anti-Israel group:

Facts About US Aid to Israel
This section contains some interesting, and not-so-random, facts about US Aid to Israel.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

19 February 2001
The government of Israel has signed a letter of offer and acceptance with the United States Department of Defense for the purchase of nine Boeing AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopters, described as being able to "rapidly detect, classify, prioritize and engage stationary or moving enemy targets at standoff ranges in nearly all weather environments."  The total value of the contract—including aircraft, ordnance, spares, training and support—is expected to approach US $500 million.
—Boeing Press Release, 19 February 2001


19 January 2001
"Despite reluctance from some on Capitol Hill to start full-scale production, President Clinton today promised Israel that it would be the first country to purchase the United States' most advanced fighter aircraft, the F-22 Raptor. Even had he not already lifted almost every U.S. arms export barrier, the promise to sell the radar-evading, stealth aircraft to Israel would solidify Clinton's legacy as the most arms export happy President in U.S. history."
—Arms Trader Insider #39 (published by The Council for a Livable World)


11 December 2000
The Israeli government has announced plans to expand the Fiscal Year 2001 defence budget by US $487 million to bring it to a total of US $10.1 billion.  The extra money allocated to the defence budget will largely be used to cover rising costs of ongoing military operations in occipied Palestinian territory.
—Defense News


6 December 2000
Israel's Elbit Systems said on Wednesday that its subsidiary, El-Op Electro Optics Industries, received a $5.8 million contract to supply laser designators to the U.S. Navy for use on F-18 aircraft.  El-Op, which specialises in the development and manufacturing of electro-optic systems and products, will supply the systems by February 2002, Elbit said in a statement.  El-Op's systems are currently on board a number of attack helicopters, including the Cobra, Apache and Comanche, as well as on F-16 and F-18 fighter planes.  The company is wholly owned by Elbit Systems.
—Reuters


cont....

22 September 2000
The Israeli Government has requested a possible sale of 14 non-MDE Beech King Air B200CT/T fixed wing aircraft along with spare parts and logistics personnel services from the United States.  The proposed sale would cost an estimated US $125 million.
—Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense, 22 September 2000


20 September 2000
Support is growing in the United States after the failed July's Camp David peace talks to decrease foreign aid to Israel.  Israel currently receives about US $3 billion a year in US foreign aid and has received more than US $66 billion in grants and US $15 billion in loans since 1949.
—Washington Times, 20 September 2000


17 August 2000
"In July, Israel canceled the sale of the PHALCON airborne early warning system to China after the U.S. Congress threatened to deduct the value of the sale from U.S. aid to Israel. . . .The PHALCON is wholly Israeli, but Israel agreed to cancel the sale because it is completely dependent on Washington for major weapons systems such as fighter planes and attack helicopters, and receives $3 billion each year in American military aid."
—Jack Katzenell, Associated Press


14 July 2000
"The Israeli Government has suspended the sale of the Phalcon airborne early-warning system to Beijing and now expects compensation from the USA.  US officials and congressional leaders said they will not agree to compensation for the suspension of the deal, which Israeli officials calculate could have amounted to $1.5 billion.  Instead, the US officials say, the Clinton Administration and Congress will seek to increase defence funding to Israel as part of any Middle East peace settlement.
—Steve Rodan and Bryan Bender, Janes Defence Weekly


14 January 2000
"Lockheed Martin received a contract today to produce 50 F-16 aircraft for the government of Israel.

"The contract awarded by the U.S. Department of Defense completes negotiations that began after Israel's July selection of the advanced F-16 as its new fighter, and follows a letter of acceptance signed between the two countries in September.

"The total program, including the aircraft, mission equipment and a support package, is worth about $2.5 billion to Lockheed Martin, various suppliers and U.S. government agencies.

"The agreement provides Israel an option to purchase 60 additional aircraft that would bring the total program value to $4.5 billion, if exercised for the full 110 aircraft."
—Lockeed Martin press release


5 January 2000
"Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak has asked the US for Cruise missiles as part of a US $17 billion security package, in return for withdrawing from the Golan Heights, the Ha'aretz daily reported Tuesday.  Tomahawk missiles would give Israel long-range capabilities against threats from distant countries, the paper added, presumably referring to the hard-line anti-Israel states of Iraq, Iran and Libya.

". . .The request also includes 2 squadrons of Apache helicopters, Blackhawk helicopters, Hercules planes, 3 AWACS planes, refueling planes, a ground station for collecting real-time information from US satellites and funding for the completion of missile defense systems, including the laser-based Nautilus system for downing Katyusha rockets, Ha'aretz said."
—Bridge News

As you can see, with or without confirmation of the 1.5B requirement, Israel does spend quite a lot of money in the US.

I do not wish to quibble about the 'morality' of the situation.  Israel receives quite a bit of money from the US, as do many other countries.  Most people don't howl quite as loudly when the subject is not Israel.

Didn't know about the F-22 Raptor.
I don't believe this plane should be either given or sold to any foreign country excepting Canada and Great Britain.

If the Israelis are going to get this plane then the Egyptians and Saudis will also eventually get the plane.

Not good news.

Maybe, but remember...

Israel hasn't lost a war to either of these two nations in at least the last several thousand years.

Since Israel knows that both these nations are bitter enemies, I don't think they would sell this technology either.

I just don't think that it would fall into the wrong hands all that easily.

It is NOT my standard. Its His. its in the Bible you like quote IF the Bible happens to support your pre-determined position.

Torf,
I didn't mean the Israelis would sell the plane I meant we, the United States will sell/give the Raptor to Egypt and the Saudis if we sell/give the plane to Israel.

At least in the past that has been our pattern.

Post from 5subslr5 -

I figured you would be heading South from OK.

[b]DonR[/b] will be crushed to read that! Shame on you, now that you've achieved stardom you would jettison the one that brought you so far!

Eric The(PressAgentToTheOKStars)Hun[>]:)]

Well, I am not in favor of THAT policy.

I don't believe in fairness enough to think that our enemies need to have the same weapons as us.

Post from garandman -

I quote the Bible because it supports all of my positions, as a matter of fact if it can be shown from the Bible that one of my positions is wrong, that position will be changed at once!

I don't just cherry-pick the verses to believe in.

Find me a place where I say otherwise.

Eric The(Pro-Zionist)Hun[>]:)]

I'm with libertyof76, garandman, el al.

Personally I'm sick of of how the US is in bed with Israel. I say they should stop giving Israel and Pakistan money and pull out. Yes you could say I'm a non-interventionalist. :)

I'm not an anti-semite, but supporting a country like this is bullcrap, pure and simple. Sure, Israel has to purchase 1.5B of defense contracts,  ok...where does the other 2.5B go to?

Robby

Well said A-o-T.

I might disagree on the Scriptural piece, but we can discuss that another time.

My problem is with the part-time conservatives / occasional socialists as I described above (to include ETH) and those who use their religion as a cloak for their politics, or their politics as a cloak for their religion (not necessarily ETH)

Post from Am-O-Tramp

Then, in the words of one far more intelligent that I:

'For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, the labourer is worthy of his reward.' 1 TIM Chapter 5:18

Paul was citing Deuteronomy, Chapter 25:4

So if little Israel is working in the Lord's plans, why muzzle it?

Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]

"I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."

--John the Baptist (Matthew 3:9, Luke 3:8)

Post from garandman -

I wouldn't feel so compelled to answer these threads if my name didn't crop up so often!

I am a full-time conservative. Period. And if the military authorities in this here United States want to spend $600.00 for a special toilet seat for their B-2 bomber, then go ahead and buy it, sez I.

It will be some young airman's butt hanging over that seat in the stratosphere, not the Hun's. Oh, most definitely, not the Hun's.

And I, for one, will not covet that seat nor envy him in the amount of money that is spent to make certain his 'business' is taken care of in such a glorious manner.

Why? Because the very folks that are sending his young butt into harm's way tell me that it is necessary for it to spend $600.00 for that part.

I keep my mouth shut, because if I can't believe that the $600.00 seat is critical to the young airman's performance of the mission, then how can I ever believe that the mission on which he's being sent is critical to our country.

If the military would lie to me about the one (the toilet seat) then what keeps them from lying to me about the other (the mission)?

Well, these same military folks tell us that Israel performs a vital service for the United States in the Middle East.

I have posted on these threads on many prior occasions, the times in which Israel has given the United States assistance in the past. In the Gulf War, before and after, as well.

So if the informed opinion of the military is that Israel is deserving of the military aid, and that their receipt of such aid is congruent with the security of the United States, then I'm all for it.

Don't worry, [b]garandman[/b], there will most likely come a day in the future when the United States [b]will[/b] turn its back on little old Israel, and the people who think the way you do will have a field day on that occasion.

Not me, and not Him, but you may.

Eric The(WeWillBeInMourning)Hun[>]:)]

I've heard of shyttehouse lawyers before, but you've coined a whole new term with this twisted rendering of scripture - shyttehouse exegete. [}:D]

Pharoah was also working out God's plans. AS was Potiphar's wife, the Amalekites, the Philistines, the Amorites, Peruzzites, Jebusites et al.

So, if we be paying Israel $4 bil annually  to "tread the corn" IMAGINE how much we owe all these OTHER peoples, who are also "working out God's plan!!!!!!'

Even at a nominal rate of interest, that money will make reparations to the Negroes in this country look like chump change.  [rolleyes]

BTW - do you know where we'll send a check, payable to the order of the Philitines????? We'd like to retain your services to track them down - and then you checkbook to settle the debt. Just the way you STEAL money from my checkbook to pay the Israelis.

Stick with politics and quotations of the israeli websites  Eric. Scriptural exegesis is WAY out of your area of expertise. Not necessarily mine, but DEFINITELY not yours.

Post from BostonTeaParty -

But God didn't have to, now did He? The children of Abraham did just what was expected of them.

Eric The(YouSee?)Hun[>]:)]

Well hallelujah!!! An accurate useage of scripture.

Not that the political Israel lovers will care to hear that.

Neither will they care to hear that in ALL cases, accoring to the covenants, obedience to God PRECEEDED possession of the land by Israel, PROVING that what is going on in Israel to day is NOT of God.

But I'm a wondering....

...could God use Rolling Stones to make children of Abraham, or just regulalr field stones?????

[}:D]

No, I'm not sure what your point is.

My point was that God will accomplish his purposes in his time whether we support him or try to stand in the way.  He doesn't need our "support".  A lot of people seem to think that by supporting Israel they will speed the second coming of Christ.  That makes no sense to me.  No more sense than saying that because Jesus said that at his coming it will be like the days of Noah that we should try to create the days of Noah to speed his coming.

"I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please."  Isaiah 46:10

"The Lord Almighty has sworn, 'Surely, as I have planned, so it will be, and as I have purposed, so it will stand.'...For the Lord Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?"  Isaiah 14:24,27

Eric -



The WHOLE PURPOSE of John's statement was to knock the underpinnings out from those who were boasting that Abraham was their biological father.

John was saying God could take stones and raise biological descendants of Abraham - i.e. that was of NO value.

Only obedience to God is of any merit to God. Not being a child of Abraham, in the flesh.

If the trading relationship is really worth (and dependent on) the money then those directly involved would (and should) pay the money out of their own pockets in the absence of US government aid.  I am making no claims about whether the trading relationship is worth it, but I suggest you consider whether those engaged in trade with Israel would pony up or move onto something else.

Post from garandman -

After hearing your marvelous dissertation on Zechariah, Chapter 12, I simply consider the source of this statement!

Your grasp of the Bible is as bizarre as any I have ever encountered, but pray continue.

Are you authorized to demand payments for any of these folks? I think they all been reimbursed by the Lord out of His own pocket.

Negroes?

Thanks, but no thanks, I believe the folks you say you represent have already received their just recompense for their actions.

Ooohhh, once again, a spurious charge against me! Shall I turn myself in to Texas or South Carolina authorities?

Well, you certainly haven't been auditioning very well for your role as [b]Religion Nazi[/b] on this Board, so I must decline to take your advice on this, or just about any other subject under the Sun. I suppose that Matthew Henry must likewise give up his position as a leading commentator in Christendom in order to make way for [b]garandman the magnificent[/b] [b][i]Exgete par excellence[/i][/b]?



You know, [b]garandman[/b], I have only heard the expression 'shyttehouse lawyers' once in my entire life. Strange that not once during my 23 years of legal practice, but only once, and that, too, was on this Board!

It occurred on September 27, 2001:

Nice try, Eric! The "shithouse lawyer"!

DaMan

View Quote

So tell me the truth, [b]garandman[/b], are you really [b]DaMan[/b]?

Well?

Eric The(Don'tLie,Now,Y'Hear?)Hun[>]:)]

As I posted a few days ago on another one of these threads, the amount Israel directly spends in the US is irrelevant.  No matter how or where Iraels spends US foreign aid money it is always $X billion of wealth leaving the country.

No.


Are you really Ariel Sharone?????

[}:D]

And if you are saving DaMan's 8 month old quotes, then you REALLY need to get out more!!!!

Or you building a database to track all us who couln't care less about glorious Israel???? [}:D]

Post from garandman -

No, he loves Israel even less than I do, and he's much more moderate in his views on handling the Palestinians.

I would have [u]flattened[/u] the Church of the Nativity by now.

But getting back to my question, I will take your answer as a truthful one.

I [u]know[/u] that you would not willfully lie to another Christian, irrespective of our divergent views on other subjects.

It just seems odd that I have now heard the phrase 'sh|thouse lawyer' from only two people in the world and they both hang out on AR15.com.

Eric The(Oh,Well!)Hun[>]:)]

Post from BostonTeaParty -

But He asks us for our support, does He not? He expects us to support His cause, does He not?

God doesn't 'need' our worship, our hymns, or our praises either, does He?

[b]But He commands them![/b]

He doesn't even need our prayers, but He taught us how to do them and tells us that they are effective.

[b]So what is [u]your[/u] point?[/b]

How do you know it won't. We are told that God is not slack concerning His promises, but that He is long-suffering and not willing that any should perish.

Doesn't that tell you that as soon as the [u]last[/u] soul is saved for Christ, that the stated reason for His delay in returning will be gone?  

Well, stop the presses! Where is it written that anything the Lord does has to make sense to any of us?

If He said it (and He did) then the day of His return will be just as the 'days of Noah.'

The unsaved will be blindsided, but you, my brethren, are not children of darkness, but children of light, and that [u]season[/u] will not come upon you without your knowledge.

Eric The(WeAreCommandedToWatchAndBePrepared)Hun[>]:)]

Post from garandman -

And John baptized many, the Good Book says.

Now, [b]garandman[/b], who were these many?

Were they not the hated, loathsome, perfidious Jews?

Of course, they were!

So tell me, [b]garandman[/b], in what year of the modern calendar did believing, obedient Jews begin to stop calling themselves 'children of Abraham'?

You see, [b]garandman[/b], you are forever equating the leaders of the Sanhedrin with the Jews.

Jews have believed upon Jesus since the very first day of His annunciation of His birth.

Mary, the Jewish mother of Christ, believed on Him. As did His earthly father. As did His cousin, John The Baptist, as did Anna and Simeon in the Temple at His presentation, as did 4,000 here and 5,000 there who were fed, as did His disciples, save one, as did certain rulers of the Sanhedrin such as Joseph and Nicodemus, as did the 3,000 at Pentecost, as did every person who followed Jesus until...when?

I'll remember that you said that. I believe it, too. As a matter of fact, I believe that any deviation from strict obedience to God will put you outside the veil, do you believe this, too?

Or is such strict obedience only for the Jews?

Eric The(TryingToBeObedient)Hun[>]:)]

Post from garandman -

I wouldn't save DaMan quotes as toilet tissue, but God has given me a very good memory, and I use it whenever I get the chance!

I get out quite a bit, don't you read my posts?

Nope, but I am certain that the Lord is still revising His invitation list for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. That's the only database I actually care about!

BTW, the feast will be [i][b]kosher[/b][/i], shall we explain to the Lord that you don't keep [i][b]kosher[/b][/i]?

I'm sure He can whip something up for you on very short notice! [:D]

And I suppose you will object to traveling to Jerusalem for the festivities? I'm not certain that there can be a lot of changes made to the itinerary at this late date.

BTW, do you know which of the Gates of the Holy City through which the King will arrive?

Let me give you a hint - it's the very one that the Jews, those damnable Jews, said that the Holy Shekinah fled when it abandoned the Temple! How utterly perfect that the King will return through the very same Gate!

Eric The(SeeYouThere!)Hun[>]:)]

True, but it's quite a stretch to lump supporting Israel in with praising God or praying.  There are other good reasons for supporting Israel, but this one doesn't ring true to me.  I can quote you a hundred scriptures where we are explicitly told to praise God.  I can quote you quite a few where we are explicitly told to ask God for things.  But I can't think of any where we are explicitly told to support the nation of Israel in the end times in order to speed Christ's return.



I'm loathe to even get involved in these Israeli-Palestinian threads, but the reason I responded to this is that I felt God's power and might was being denigrated.  God's ability to orchestrate human history is so far above our understanding.  He can do things like turning Pharoah's obstinacy and abuse into a great victory and a great demonstration of how he protects and cares for his people.  God will accomplish his restoration of Israel at the end despite or perhaps even through the opposition of men.  

You are right that it's far better to be on his side than against him.  But what peeved me is that Am-O-Tramp made it sound as if God's purposes would be defeated or delayed if we didn't support Israel as a nation.  Hardly!  God would turn that around into some great victory.  It seems to me that even you have lost sight in this whole discussion of how great God is and how much he is able to work on behalf of his people.  God is not constrained in the least by our failures.

I don't know that it won't, but it seems to me that if that was the key, he would have emphasized it more.  It seems instead that his focus is on spreading the message to the ends of the earth.  But I think that even the people who believe that getting the message to every last tribe is some sort of magic key to get Christ to come back are missing the point.  It makes it sound as if God is at our beck and call or is dependent on us.  It reminds me of the Jews who thought that the Messiah would free them from Roman rule.



It isn't, but I was referring to how people interpret the book of Revelation rather than anything God was doing.

People who think Geraldo is a good source of facts shouldn't be allowed to own firearms. Or breathe.

maelcum,
I posted the information from the program and the source.
The two guests were a former Israeli Ambassador and a spokesman for the Palestinians.  The two men mentioned knowing each other for a number of years.
The financial information on both the money given to Israel and the money given to the Palestinians was presented in the form of a table and the numbers were not challenged by either side.

I do not proffer Geraldo as a 'good' source or a bad source but simply the news program I was watching and thus where the information came from.

I own a good number of firearms and breathe on a regular basis and expect to continue to do both for the foreseeable future.

Post from BostonTeaParty -

Quite true, but only to the extent that God has put such a high premium on the prayers and praises of His people. It was said that the Lord 'inhabited' the praises of His people.

That is quite sufficient for me to set that commandment apart unto itself.

Nevertheless, [b]BostonTeaParty[/b], how do you read and understand Zechariah, Chapter 12, verses 1-10?

Do you think 'all nations' will include the US?Or will we even be a factor at this stage of human history?

Many, many good reasons there are to support the State of Israel. The fact that in the end of time it would be the Lord's special cause is, however, sufficient rationale for supporting it today.

To speed the Lord's return? Nope. If you want to speed the Lord's return then go and save the 'last soul' for Christ.  That should start the ball rolling, eh?

But I am anxious to hear your understanding of the Zechariah prophecy, if prophecy it truly is.

Emphasized helping Israel or winning souls? If it's winning souls for Christ then I believe that was adequately emphasized.

[red][b]Go ye unto all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...'[/b][/red]Mark 16:15,16.

No, they are simply following the commandment of their Lord. Thank God, I don't have to go where those folks have chosen to go for the sake of His gospel!

No, it sounds to me as if they believe that it is a good thing to do what the Master tells us to do!

But those Jews were mistaken, were they not? It escaped them that Isaiah, Chapter 53, might have told them something very different about the first coming of the Messiah.

Eric The(Believing)Hun[>]:)]

I have said before that I think no country is entitled to money from our treasury.  I think there are other ways to lend support.  Israel is right in their war.  They are capable as a people, and private donations are acceptable but I must agree that USA treasury funds are not the congress's to give.  Planerench out.

I don't like to read current events into the future "history" prophesied in the Bible.  It is a dangerous thing, much like it was dangerous for the Jews of Jesus' day to assume he would overthrow Roman rule because the Messiah was prophesied to be a liberator and conqueror.  A liberator and a conqueror he is, but not in the way they thought.  They were too tied up with the political current events of their day to understand God's purposes.

Having said that, Zechariah 12-14 is a prophecy of the end time.  God will restore Israel, and Israel will return to him.  Christ will return and lay claim to his kingship over the whole earth.

What is important to know about this?  Is it which nation in the prophecy is which nation in current events (if that nation even exists)?  Or is it that God will bring the Jews back to himself and that he has promised to return with power and bring judgement?



You're making an assumption that he is talking about a nation-state.  It is a plausible assumption but not the only reasonable explanation.  The nation-state did not exist when the prophecy was made.  Who can say if it will exist in the end time?

In addition, it does not follow that we should make it our cause to support Israel today because God will do that in the end.  God never commands us to do that.  That God does something does not necessarily mean he expects us to participate.  He will judge every man at the end.  Yet this does not mean he expects us to participate in that judgement and certainly doesn't mean he expects us to begin that judgement now.  In the end time, God will destroy those who oppose Israel.  That is a good reason not to oppose Israel in the end time.  Possibly that could even be construed as a reason not oppose them now.  But not opposing is not the same as supporting.  Nowhere are we commanded to actively support Israel in the end time.



Emphasized helping Israel.  It isn't emphasized at all.  (Unless you are talking about helping individuals of Israel by bringing them the good news.)



You misunderstood me.  I didn't say "the people who believe in getting the message to every last tribe are missing the point."  I said those who think that is a magic key to unlock the return of Christ are missing the point.  That has nothing to do with obeying the commandment.  It smacks of trying to control God.

maelcum,

after giving your post some thought you really must be an ignorant shit.

One takes information from virtually any source, processes the information and retains that which proves useful.  Admittedly this requires the ability to think and leaves you out.

I find it amazing that this thread garners so much interest.

I originally had a fairly lengthy thread on this topic, in which I tried to make a few points vis-a-vis the current situation.

I took it all out, because it doesn't matter.

Many of you feel that the $4 billion that we give Israel is a monster bit of change.  Not so.  It's a paltry, insignificant amount (compared to the big picture) as to defy any debate.  Take a look at what we give others.  Israel may be at the top of the list...so what?  How much are we giving Russia, China, and dozens of little places all around the world?  

Wouldn't it be nice if we just spent money here in the United States?  If taxes taken from the proceeds of our hard work was used here, and what was left was given back to us?  Wouldn't that be great?

The Industrial Revolution (and its effects thereafter) changed all of that. Forever. This nation can no longer sit by and take anything close to an isolationist stance.  Sorry to say, but those days are over, and aren't coming back.  Ever.  

We're a smaller world now than we were just 20 years ago.  Get used to it, as it's only getting smaller each and every day.  Doesn't matter if you're a Republican, or a Democrat.  Male or female.  Events are occurring at an blink of an eye now.  Everything's fast, fast, fast.  It's not going to get easier.  

We've accepted our position (right or wrong) to be the world's policeman...and we always will be.  How?  By decisions made by every politician we've elected over the last 50 years.

We're also the world's banker, farmer, best friend, and worst enemy.  So we'll keep doing KFOR/SFOR rotations to curtail the killings in the Balkans.  We'll send advisors to any of a dozen nations, along with massive amounts of aid to virtually anyone that asks for it.

Why? Because we can, that's why.

   

Yep.... a few billion here and there......it soon amounts to some SERIOUS MONEY!

DaMan

Amazing, isn't it?  Everytime we have a discussion centreing around Israel, it always seems to collapse into a theological debate.  Back on track now, lads...

How do I feel about Israeli "Aid?"  Not good.  Except for the fact that Israel is a de facto ally of the United States, I like it about as much as forgiving the debts of all the Turd World nations that we have propped up.  How come we can forgive debt to East Ougadouga, but no-one is willing to forgive our debts here?

Things that worry me most, in no partictular order...

Illogic of the IRS.  Why do you have to pay the taxes you owe when you file for an extension, when you are filing for the extension to figure out what you owe?

Allocation of tax dollars.  I am not paying taxes to prop up the welfare programme, or for my own money to be held out against the various states ("highway funds") to enforce compliance of laws I do not agree with.  Nor do I think I should be paying for laws I do not support, bureaucrats who are not doing work I approve of (and would actually fire if they were working for me!) or for programmes that are useless (think: Gun Buybacks.)

Legislation.  Why do we have 35,000,000 laws to enforce 10 Commandments?  I favour a modified version of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of law."  Temper with, "Your right to throw a punch ends where my nose begins."  Simpler form - do whatever you want PROVIDED you do not injure another - physically or materially.

"Refugee Aid" programmes for the Vietnamese.  Not to single you guys out, but the war was over in 1975.  Sorry, most of the people who were directly involved are either over here already or dead by now.  I don't think we need to keep paying out these grants...  Besides, I have seen the interest rates on some of those loans as well, and I can't get anything that good - and I'm a decorated vet!

Welfare.  It has its uses, but it's like a lift in your shoe - you don't always need it to walk straight.  The whole programme needs to be restructured to get people OFF the welfare rolls!  Why not "Welfare-to-Work?"  What are we waiting for?

The judicial system - a recent quote by Jeff Cooper comes to mind (tho a bit out of context,) "A military tribunal will try to find out what happened.  A civilian trial is usually a confrontation between technicians."  I may have misquoted, but the essence is there.  Law is less and less binding in the Legal profession - so-called "Tort Law" or "Case Law" is taking precendence.  I understand the need for precendents, but sometimes they must be overturned...  ETH, I would appreciate your comments on this one!  Chairborne, any other atorneys - yours as well.  Post here or email me direct, please ([email protected])

The IRS to begin with.  Read "Unbridled Power" sometime, if you can find it.  It's the tale of the one-and-only official historian the IRS ever deigned to hire.  I can provide ISBN and other info upon request.  Email above.  But, it's a whole batch of Federal Employees who are not strictly necessary.

Rescission of laws - why it ain't happenin' yet?  Perhaps there should be a requirement to rescind one or two old laws before a new one can be passed?  Note the 35,000,000/10 ratio I mentioned above.

Foreign Aid - we don't have things flying straight here yet, why are we trying to help everyone else?  Just wondering...

(TBC)

The United Nations - Going back to Dag Hammerskold (or earlier,) the UN has been pressing for a Socialist New World Order.  I don't have to explain Socialism here, I trust.  I especially like how they bitch at us for money when we provide all the manpower for their "operations," AND a Headquarters for them in NYC.  Frankly, I hoped it had been the UN Building hit on 9/11 and not the WTC, but terrorists are not known to do anything even tangentially useful...  Throw the rascals out!

Restoration of property rights.  You think you have property rights?  Let's look at a few things...

Eminent Domain
Property Tax
Luxury Tax
Income Tax
Registrations/Confiscations

What do these five things have in common?  They are all mechanisms whereby you can be relieved of your property.  Try not paying your property tax for a couple years, and tell the T-Man to get "good and bent" when he comes around to collect.  You'll be looking for new digs before long, and probably won't be able to find them (tax lien...)

Get the idea?  While the Israeli Aid matter is a problem, I just have larger things on my RADAR to deal with...  

FFZ

Post from BostonTeaParty -

But we are under [u]no[/u] such illusions as the Jews were in those days, are we, BTP? We know the precise sort of Messiah for whom we wait and hope.

[b]1 Thessalonians, Chapter 5:[/b]

1   But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2   For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3   For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4   [b]But ye, brethren, [u]are not in darkness[/u], that that day should overtake you as a thief.[/b]

5   Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6   Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

So we are commanded to watch and wait. If we are supposed to be watching, shouldn't we know for what or whom it is we are to be looking?
That means that current events must be studied and evaluated.

[b]Matthew, Chapter 16:[/b]

2   He answered and said unto them, [red][b]When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.[/b][/red]

3   [red][b]And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. [b]O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?[/b][/red]

So even the Lord commands us to be 'watching and waiting' for His reappearance! And I won't even get into the Lord's Olivet Discourse that gives very specific clues and warnings about the approaching end of human history.

So there is nothing wrong with looking for the fulfillment of prophecy, is there? Hmmm, I thought not!

I would think that the 'governors of Judah and Jerusalem' language would indicate that Israel is in control of their ancient lands at this point, don't you?

- continued -