Quoted: There was a frog journalist there that day that said he never assaulted those people.

His name is Eric Boyer.

He worked for Gamma Press (or Gamma something) and was here in the U.S. doing a piece regarding America's gun culture.  He went to a rattlesmake roundup somewhere before going to Sutton's range.

The first firearm he ever shot in his life was mine.  The grin on his face was incredible.

If and when his piece is ever published, my interview will be in there.  In exchange for the interview, he bought me dinner at Texas Land and Cattle.

After the alleged beating happened, he literally hauled ass back to France.  I've searched every so often for the piece, but haven't found it.  He also said he would contact me when it is published.  But I'm thinking all things considered, he rather forget about his visit here.

I have a copy somewhere of Eric's pencil written, notebook paper 'statement.'  I'll keep my thoughts on the validity to my self.

I'll tell you though.  I can't prove it - I wasn't there.

But 2 friends were.  They were shown small puddles of blood on the ground, and Foote and Nethercott claimed this was from people they had beat.

Then, when other RR members starting expressing outrage, those same puddles were attributed to the killing of a snake, then later the killing of a coyote.

Call Dees - SPLC.  Ask to get the depositions of those RR members who were subpeonead.

It's all in there.

One of the reasons the jury was hung?  Because the male and female witnesses had slightly different stories.

www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA061704.1B.pistolwhiptrial.ab94ff7.html Pistol-whip case ends in mistrial Web Posted: 06/17/2004 12:00 AM CDT Jesse Bogan Express-News Border Bureau SNIP Flores, 47, a high school agriculture teacher, was one of two men and three women who voted not guilty — partly, he said, because of inconsistencies in testimony between the immigrant who said he had been assaulted and that of his traveling companion.

I know you're probably leaping before looking as I assume you don't have all the facts - which is understandable considering illegal aliens were awarded a ranch.

But be careful before you EVER defend ANYTHING Foote and Nethercott do.

Here - wanna hear something funny?  Get the court transcripts from the trail in June of 2004 in Hebbronville.

Long story short:

Nethercott's attorney had just grilled a guy about his mil career, and the guy said that Nethercott's weapon was a 'poorly maintained POS, and he couldn't shoot for shit.'

His attorney said something along the lines of 'you mean to tell me the first Ranger off the boat during the Grenada invasion couldn't hit a snake?"

Guy said, "Correct."

Get this:

Nethercott was 36 or 37 at the time (can't remember exactly)

The Grenada invasion was in 1983.

That would've made him 16 or so years old, and a Ranger.  He was called out on it.

I laughed, right then and there.

Google is your friend - but folks would appreciate not seeing their names.

tagged for reading after work

Backstop not saying it didn't happen, I only know what I was told by some folks who were at the time working with RR.

What I do know is this, he was aquitted of the assault, so therefore, in the eyes of the law, it didn;t happen. So how then can ones property be taken for basicly a crime they did not commit. Like you said the reason he was aquitted was becuase the two suposed victims had differing stories about what happened. If they can't even get their stories straight then there is an issue.

If in the eyes of the law he did not commit the crime, then taking the ranch is bullshit. If you are found not guilty or aquitted of a crime, you should not be able to be sued, thats just how I feel about it. I feel O.J got shafted on that as well. I feel anyone that ever shot someone or took a life in self defense and then got sued into the ground by the POS's family for wrongfull death got screwed.

No matter what "really" happened out there, the courts said he didn't do it and thats were I have issues with the taking of the ranch.

Quoted: Backstop not saying it didn't happen, I only know what I was told by some folks who were at the time working with RR. What I do know is this, he was aquitted of the assault, so therefore, in the eyes of the law, it didn;t happen. So how then can ones property be taken for basicly a crime they did not commit.

First of all criminal court doesnt ever proove someone didnt do something. All a not guilty verdict means is the jury decided the prosecution did not prove theirr case beyond a reasonable doubt.  they will even aquitt a defended they believe to be guilty idf the DA doesnt meet that standard. Plus their verdict must be unanamous.

If civil court the burdon of proof is much lower. Its not beyond a reasonable doubt.

Quoted: Quoted: Backstop not saying it didn't happen, I only know what I was told by some folks who were at the time working with RR. What I do know is this, he was aquitted of the assault, so therefore, in the eyes of the law, it didn;t happen. So how then can ones property be taken for basicly a crime they did not commit. First of all criminal court doesnt ever proove someone didnt do something. All a not guilty verdict means is the jury decided the prosecution did not prove theirr case beyond a reasonable doubt.  they will even aquitt a defended they believe to be guilty idf the DA doesnt meet that standard. Plus their verdict must be unanamous. If civil court the burdon of proof is much lower. Its not beyond a reasonable doubt.

No shit and thats part of the problem, if the DA can't prove beyond a resonable doubt that you commited the crime, then you didn't in the eyes of the law commit the crime. You didn't do it till the jury(or judge in some cases) comes back and says GUILTY. If yer not guilty or aquitted because they could not prove you actually commited the crime beyond a resonable doubt, then no matter what you should not be able to be pulled into a civil court either.

Quoted: Backstop not saying it didn't happen, I only know what I was told by some folks who were at the time working with RR.

The guy I referred to in my above post - the one who was grilled about his mil career - that was me.

I'm curious who you talked to.

Who are your sources?   I know everyone that was at the ranch when the alleged assault happened, and all those there the weekend before, and those there just after the alleged assault happened.  Other than Foote and Nethercott, I still communicate with them - including the landowner and his wife.  

From the landowner, I know exactly what happened - and it's a matter of record.

I was on the ranch the weekend before the alleged beatings, then I was invited back by the landowner about 3 weeks after.  

Did you know there was another lawsuit that was dropped because the witness disappeared?

The guy was beaten so bad, the landowner called an ambulance for him.  He spent close to a week in a coma.

We all sit around and say 'shoot the MF'ers crossing the border.'  Well, people don't deserve what happened to that guy.  Round 'em up and deport them.  Beating them up is just wrong.

Did your sources show - or tell you about - the videos of the other illegals caught on the ranch? The ones that were given food/water/shelter as the weather was pretty nasty?

Remember hearing that Nethercott was put in solitary and denied food while in jail?  He WAS put in solitary for his own safety; he was telling the other prisoners he was a retired US Marshall.  His food were never withheld.

I was scheduled to meet Robert K. Brown from SOF magazine, and escort him to the ranch as he wanted to see WTF was going on.  When the alleged beatings happened, we talked.  I won't put words in the man's mouth, but the impression I got from him was that he thought I was FOS when I told him what I knew.  Mr. Brown cancelled his trip.


My FR post from 28 November 2003:

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1029488/posts?q=1&&page=51 To: raggedwarrior; PRND21; et al Greetings. As it seems my deposition is the topic of discussion, I thought it a good time to register and jump in. If you ever get over to AR15.com, I'm "Backstop" there. Stop in and say "Hi!" Ragged- they sure beat you up on AR15.com, eh? Some folks there will not listen to the truth. Especially if it rains on their parade. Brings back memories, huh? You and Libertylass have some tough feelings; I'm staying out of it. The facts: 1. I am the "DS" that libertylass revered to in her post. 2. I am a former Ranch Rescue member. 3. I was subpoenaed by Morris Dees. My deposition was 3 hours long. He told me I deviantly would be called to testify at the trail. 4. Morris Dees had copies of every Ranch Rescue(RR) chat. He also had copies of some of my emails. One email in particular was sent to only one person, and Dees had a copy. He also had a copy of a few of the RR Yahoo Group emails. He also had a copy of my resignation letter. 5. Two ATF agents came to my house and interviewed me. I was told by them on another accession that someone in RR had access to everyone in RR computers (hack). So there was a mole- or so it seems. 6. I spent many weekends on the landowner's property, even after the alleged beatings. I was not there during the alleged beatings. After the arrest of Nethercott and Connor, I continued to work on the ranch, at the landowner's request, until mid May. I was in contact with the sheriff and the Border Patrol in Hebbronville each weekend. The last weekend or so that I was there, the sheriff suggested that we devise a plan to catch the coyote- the guy transporting the illegals. It never came to fruitions as the lawsuits soon appeared. Frankly, I'm intimately familiar with the illegal traffic on the landowner's property. And there's a bunch! 7. Morris Dees called me on Friday 28 Nov and said that Nethercott was in custody. 8. Dees sent a copy of my deposition to Ragged Warrior. Dees sent me a copy of the note he sent to Ragged Warrior. 9. Liberylass, myself and another individual started forming a new group, "Paladin Group." There were various reasons it failed. On my part, I had a disagreement with this individual (not Libertylass) and quit. There are some things I will not tolerate. Libertylass quit shortly thereafter, and the group folded. 10. Ragged- as far as the International Coord for RR goes, Libertylass told him some items in confidence. He agreed not to repeat them. He broke that confidence by relating those items to you. When you and I spoke on the phone, you at least had the integrity to admit this. I emailed the Int'l Coord, and called him out on his failure to abide by his word. He has never responded. Before he went back on his word, he wanted me to serve Jack Foote with legal papers for him, and help him find Foote's house. I declined, of course. 11. As far as Foote outnumbering those men in black pj's 3-1, that is incorrect. They actually outnumbered us. I believe we only had 6 men in the immediate vicinity. I was the one who sat in the door blind all night, and first spotted them. There were 7-12 of them. Not the 25 that Foote has reported in numerous places. After seeing them and relaying by radio their direction of travel to Foote, I ran about 1/4 mile, and positioned myself so that I could see two lanes of sender's. I figured I couldn't catch them, but at least I could radio which one of two avenues of travel they were going. Meanwhile, Foote was trying to organize his, uh, men. It was a complete tactical failure. He started beating the brush approx 1/2 mile too far west of where I was. I radioed and told him he needed to hurry farther east, but to no avail. It's a long story, but you get the picture. Foote appears to be a textbook field man, with limited experience, and with no ability to improvise quickly. 12. Eric Boye, a French journalist, interviewed me in Feb, I believe. He has since dropped off the face of the planet, and will not answer my emails. 13. Ken Jarecke, of US News and World Report, (along with Boye) were out at the landowner's ranch when I was. Jarecke has since published an article. Jarecke took numerous photos of me while I was wearing a sleeve and working Nethercott's Rottweiler. I've called Jarecke numerous times, but he doesn't return my calls. I'd like a few of those copies. Ken, if you're out there, get back with me, eh? :] 14. Fotte and Nethercott have borrowed money and equipment from numerous people with the promise of return. They have not lived up to the promises. I understand a small amount of money has been paid back, but the amount of debt should warrant limited travel/operations on the part of RR until these debts are paid. The Int'l Coord stated he was filing a claim against them. At this point, I wouldn't believe him. 15. There is so much more, but you get the picture. I would advise everyone thinking of joining his group to think again. The initial premise of RR is great, but the practical application is terrible. 16. Everything stated above is a matter of public record, so I haven't related any "secrets." 17. My circle of trusted friends in this area of activism has dwindled, so now Libertylass is the last one. Anyway, hope I cleared the air on some items. Heck, I'd even answer some questions for those who are still interested in joining RR. Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!! 63 posted on 11/29/2003 6:33:09 AM PST by Backstop73

Another FR post by another former RR member (same thread as above):

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1029488/posts?q=1&&page=51 To: PRND21 Currently I'm not involved in any activism, but will pick up later. Ragged Warrior (or is this his wife that I'm actually responding to here) has a twisted time line for events. Several items in this piece are completely inaccurate. But, this is classic Ragged Warrior attack mode to anything he does not agree with. Please check out his post on AR15 and see how he was treated there. 1) My losing control? Even Ragged Warrior's wife could not understand why he pulled me out of an AOL chat between Coordinator's when we were confronting Jack. Other members were instant messaging me with their questions as to why I was removed from the chat. R.W. then childishly left the chat unmoderated to sulk offline. Jack DID NOT want to be in that chat at all....he used whatever was available to make a quick get-away. If YOU look back at that chat you'll see that D.S. was also aggressively questioning J.Foote in tandem with me. Why? Because we had the most information. However, you chose to remove me. Your call, I guess. But you continue to use this as your reason for Jack's leaving the chat. Ridiculous. D.S. had to call Jack just to get him to join the chat in the first place. The last thing he wanted was to be confronted with questions he had no intention of answering. You know that as well as I. I could go into a completely disgusting example of your temper raging, but won't engage in your type of posting. By the way, I have the same chats printed out. 2) The reason I was thrust into the spotlight in the first place was because I was the only person Casey called from jail for a full month. I was Jack Foote's closest coordinator at the time and Casey was our California member. I was eagerly sought out for details by you, your wife, and all the other R.R. Coordinator's. Later, two other members became the focus of information. Now you continue to chastise me for "wanting the spotlight." Typical. We have seen your postings on other sites and have kept our collective mouth's shut. I did not step in until I see horrendous statements such as the ones you initially posted here. No one knows the details of what happened more than I and a few others. You know of many of these details from me. Does this make me more important? Of course not. It just is......if you remember R.W. I was so exhausted during Casey's incarceration that I was driven to tears. You and your wife supported me during that period just so I could get through the difficulties of finding him legal help. Now you label me the "media seeker." RW states here that I was all over the internet "telling all." Innacuracies again. The only way D.S. and I got on Stadmiller's show was by giving a false name. I'd bet my life that Jack gave Stadmiller a head's up about who not to let on the show. My lack of control, as you call it, was my trying to get a word in edgewise. It was a one shot deal. Once I identified who I really was, Stadtmiller was angry and used it to discredit me instead of listening to the facts. But, I wouldn't have gotten on if I had use my real name. Jack never did realize it was D.S. who confronted him before I got on. At least we tried. I'm not sure you tried at all. I would do it again too. I had been communicating for months with the former International Coordinator in an effort to get back monies owed us from Jack Foote. I told him about a particular person being deposed because he asked and I trusted him. The person being deposed was aware that this Coordinator was being given this information by me! BUT! This International Coordinator then contacted others without permission from myself or the deposed party. He contacted you Ragged Warrior, and another deposed person. It was not I, get your facts straight! By the way, we have not heard a word from the former Int'l. Coordinator since he was confronted about running around with this private information. He knows he screwed up! Your timeline is just plain wrong again and your assessment of me "trying to be in the spotlight" is another foot in your mouth. My posts on other sites, that you state is my attempt to be in the "spotlight", only solidifies your need to feel important. I don't post anything about R.R. unless I'm responding to your posts. And that's only lately! This is to make sure you stay accurate. The group I had planned to organized after leaving R.R. was being set up by myself, and two other former members. We invited anyone from R.R. to join us except for a few more militant types. I was not interested in having some of the coordinator's because they found it difficult to abandon Jack and took their leaving way too slowly. We agreed to only allow the most integral to join the new group. The reason the group didn't go forward was because I was in the process of a large personal move from my home. I'm still working on this project, hence my inactivity in the immigration reform arena, except with my local groups. My group not forming had nothing to do with my "lack of control." Quite the contrary. If nothing else, I have disappeared into the horizon, with little or no contact with anyone from R.R. except for the Int'l. Coordinator that I no longer hear from. By the way....I find it interesting that you ran with my idea to go public with your services. These ideas were generated by B.C., D.S. and myself and when we sent an e-mail inviting folks to join our new group (including you) it was stated that we planned to offer public services. Good idea. Glad we thought of it. David: I knew Casey missed his 10/30 court date and received calls from G.M., D.S., among others. I appreciate efforts to protect my children and I, but don't want you using your attempts to help me as a feather in your cap after twisting truths about me. Anyway,I took precautions at this end. L.B. and I are dear friends, and he checks on me periodically anyway. Like you, I want people to know that R.R. is a group to stay away from. I guess my telling folks that Chris has been aligned with Jack in the past is not something you want people to know. R.R. learned about Joe Sutton needing help this past Spring from Chris Simcox. I'm telling folks that I don't consider his group one that I would align myself with. Glenn Spencer's is the only group that is not exercising Federally inspected activities. I have no particularly negative information on Chris' group, but one to watch for if he continues to work with Jack Foote. You know, in closing, your defensiveness about everyone attacking you gets old. Poor Ragged Warrior. Your last paragraph stating that "I sound like Jack", that my group got "killed" before it got started, and that I'm attacking you, is pitiful. You don't like me because I'm honest to a fault, and call you on your behavior. You do not like women telling you anything. You have a nasty temper and hold grudges forever. Your last sentence: "You are attacking me because I told you that you were wrong in your actions." I have NO idea what you have proven here, since I've just clarified more of your inconsistencies. Your information is always a bit skewed and off balance. I think the reader can "feel" the difference in temperment here. I know they have on AR15. NewRomeTacitus: You're right. This is why the group splintered. But, I had to take the time to defend the truth, again it seems. I'm done. :-) 58 posted on 11/28/2003 10:40:45 AM PST by libertylass

----------------------------------------

That above sounds kinda harsh...not intended.

Nethercott and Foote are two of the biggest assholes on the planet.  There are still some of their cronies about, and they continually try to skew the facts in an attempt to vindicate those two.

They fucked over a bunch of people.  Bad.

All the other ex-RR folks won't speak up for reasons of...well...personal safety.

Assholes are assholes, and wrong is wrong.  And I'll call people on it everyday of the week.

And people want to threaten me?

I say, "Bring it.  You know what happened last time."

Quoted: Documents granting the 70-acre ranch once owned by Casey Nethercott to Fatima del Socorro Leiva Medina and Edwin Alfredo Mancia Gonzales were signed Monday by a Cochise County judge.

THAT'S why this shit will go on forever!

Fucking judges!!!!

I'd like to take EVERYTHING from that fucking judges family and see how they like it!!

isn't this the legal case where the defendant refused to respond to hte lawsuit, resulting in default judgment?

Quoted: Quoted: Documents granting the 70-acre ranch once owned by Casey Nethercott to Fatima del Socorro Leiva Medina and Edwin Alfredo Mancia Gonzales were signed Monday by a Cochise County judge. THAT'S why this shit will go on forever! Fucking judges!!!! I'd like to take EVERYTHING from that fucking judges family and see how they like it!!

It set a very dangerous precedent.

I'm sure the SPLC feels quite empowered by this.  I see more lawsuits - regardless their validity - on the horizon.

Quoted: isn't this the legal case where the defendant refused to respond to hte lawsuit, resulting in default judgment?

I don't have facts about that - just what I read in the papers.  

That so called "judge" needs to have his balls stretched a bit.  It's hard to believe that bullshit like this can happen in our country.

I don't condone what either of the posted articles say about each part involved.

I will say this in mild defense of the citizens from the US involved and the things they are accused of doing and/or saying. People get fed up, especially when what the other side is doing is illegal and an invasion... All the while the government that has sworn to enforce the law, serve and protect it's citizens, does jack shit about a problem that everyone knows about.

I'm still just fucking baffled by how the Mexicans, S&C Americans, and local pro-lation groups think it is there god given right to cross whatever border they want and it's racist or anti-human rights to say or enforce otherwise.

Fucker's are as crazy and the bozos running Iran.

The problem and its resulting responsiblity first and foremost lies with our government.

The law(s) are in place; they choose to not enforce them.

Next in the fault line is Mexico.

Quoted: I'm still just fucking baffled by how the Mexicans, S&C Americans, and local pro-lation groups think it is there god given right to cross whatever border they want and it's racist or anti-human rights to say or enforce otherwise. Fucker's are as crazy and the bozos running Iran.

It's just classic disinformation tactics, the same as you'd see in any other war.

Mexico is trying to take over the US in whole or part. They think they can do it without a shot ever being fired.
They may be right, especially if we deal with this as a legal rather than military problem.

Quoted: isn't this the legal case where the defendant refused to respond to hte lawsuit, resulting in default judgment?

Never mind, I finally got through it.  I see the event was in TX.  It took a while for that to get through, I thought the incident was in AZ.  Now I see it's just the ranch.

That said.  How come the spl center is still standing?  How come the judge in AZ still has even underwear left?

Quoted: I may be slow, but I'm not understanding something here.  Maybe it's somewhere in the thread, which I admit I went through rather quickly.  The ranch is in Bisbee, correct?  That's in AZ, correct?  A texas judge signed an order.  How does this judge have jurisdiction?  If a suit was brought, how come not in AZ?  Since a judge in AZ ordered the ranch turned over, was there a suit in AZ?  I'm not getting the jurisdiction here.

They sued he lost, they were awarded the amount.  The property of the loser was in AZ, but it was still his property that got liquidated to fulfill the award.    Not all that uncopmmon.  Say I run over your kid in AZ and you live in TX and I and all my property are in CA.  If you sue me and I lose, I can't say stuff it, all my assets are in CA and you don't get none.  You get the judgement accepted and served via the CA Court System.  Once you have a award in one state you can have it recognized and enforced in other states almost all the time.

If it was me I'd have someone burn it to the ground.

Quoted: Quoted: I may be slow, but I'm not understanding something here.  Maybe it's somewhere in the thread, which I admit I went through rather quickly.  The ranch is in Bisbee, correct?  That's in AZ, correct?  A texas judge signed an order.  How does this judge have jurisdiction?  If a suit was brought, how come not in AZ?  Since a judge in AZ ordered the ranch turned over, was there a suit in AZ?  I'm not getting the jurisdiction here. They sued he lost, they were awarded the amount.  The property of the loser was in AZ, but it was still his property that got liquidated to fulfill the award.    Not all that uncopmmon.  Say I run over your kid in AZ and you live in TX and I and all my property are in CA.  If you sue me and I lose, I can't say stuff it, all my assets are in CA and you don't get none.  You get the judgement accepted and served via the CA Court System.  Once you have a award in one state you can have it recognized and enforced in other states almost all the time.

After reading it a few times I finally got it.  My original thought was that the incident occurred in AZ and somehow the suit took place in TX.  I now realize that the incident was in TX and the suit was brought (technically, properly) in TX, and the follow on would, of course, be exactly as you described.  BTW, that's probably the reason for a lot of home purchases in FL by foreigners and non-retirement, professional  types from other states - they can't take your home.  

That is the most fucked up thing I have yet to see with all our immigration problems.

Quoted: What I posted in the other thread on this story: A fool and his ranch are soon parted. I'm hardly one to defend an illegal alien, BUT.... in this particular case, what Casey did was not only criminal, it was downright STUPID. If a man is caught breaking into your home and you catch him and he surrenders to you without a fight. Do you then have the right to pistol-whip him or do whatever you want with him? Of course not! Would he have cause to sue you if you did? Damn straight. That's the way I see it. A fucking criminal lowlife scumbag was caught by a homeowner, but the homeowner went way overboard and used it as an excuse to beat the shit out of him. And then there's the issue of Casey being a felon in possession of firearms. Hell man, what the fuck was he thinking to PISTOL-whip him!? Though I am completely sickened by illegal aliens to start with, and especially sickened by having one win a court case here - I still have no sympathy for the idiot who brought it all on himself. This was a lose-lose situation.

I agree 100%