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Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:39:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:


What the fuck are you talking about?

Illegal immigrants is the opposite of how the Turkish state views Kurds. They claim the Kurds don't fucking exist, they say that there is no such thing as the Kurdish people, that they are "mountain Turks", the Kurds are today in their historic homelands, which they have occupied since forever. Turkey has committed genocide against the Kurds, banned their language and political organizations for years, and tried to erase them as a people.

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Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
I know it's popular here to cheer on the Kurds, because let's face it: in Iraq and Syria they are the good guys, but to the Turks... They are a combination of illegal aliens and the free shit army. They take advantage of the Turks' system and constantly play the game of "we're victims so you have to let us do what we want."

The Turks want them out like we want the illegals out.

That said, we should have let Turkey "handle" this entire region a long time ago. Their president is basically an Obama so it might not have happened, but their military leadership is good people who have an interest in keeping shit calm around them.


What the fuck are you talking about?

Illegal immigrants is the opposite of how the Turkish state views Kurds. They claim the Kurds don't fucking exist, they say that there is no such thing as the Kurdish people, that they are "mountain Turks", the Kurds are today in their historic homelands, which they have occupied since forever. Turkey has committed genocide against the Kurds, banned their language and political organizations for years, and tried to erase them as a people.




Sucks to be a marginal people in the middle of a bunch of much bigger and better armed players.


Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:40:06 AM EDT
Fuck Turkey.



Let the them eat their young as far as I'm concerned.




I'm 100% with THIS guy....






Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:46:36 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
but their military leadership is good people who have an interest in keeping shit calm around them.
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IIRC their president had all of the pro-western generals fired or arrested
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:47:04 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tomislav:



Sucks to be a marginal people in the middle of a bunch of much bigger and better armed players.


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Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
I know it's popular here to cheer on the Kurds, because let's face it: in Iraq and Syria they are the good guys, but to the Turks... They are a combination of illegal aliens and the free shit army. They take advantage of the Turks' system and constantly play the game of "we're victims so you have to let us do what we want."

The Turks want them out like we want the illegals out.

That said, we should have let Turkey "handle" this entire region a long time ago. Their president is basically an Obama so it might not have happened, but their military leadership is good people who have an interest in keeping shit calm around them.


What the fuck are you talking about?

Illegal immigrants is the opposite of how the Turkish state views Kurds. They claim the Kurds don't fucking exist, they say that there is no such thing as the Kurdish people, that they are "mountain Turks", the Kurds are today in their historic homelands, which they have occupied since forever. Turkey has committed genocide against the Kurds, banned their language and political organizations for years, and tried to erase them as a people.




Sucks to be a marginal people in the middle of a bunch of much bigger and better armed players.




You don't have to tell me, my grandparents came here from Syria and Lebanon, both Christians.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:50:18 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BASooner:
Burn baby burn.
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This is bad.

Erdogan recently lost the elections by a big margin.  His people rejected him and his push to Islamic theocracy.  He is concerned about eliminating the Kurds.  The Kurds are probably the only people involved in this that have their shit together, are relatively pro-US and anti-ISIS and anti-Turkish.  They deserve US support for their own country (they are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own country!).

This will escalate and could have bad consequences.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:51:45 AM EDT
Fuck Turkey and fuck Syria.  Too bad about the Kurds though.

Gotta love GDers who bitch and complain about the size and power of govt but want us involved in literally every conflict everywhere.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:56:08 AM EDT
Leave us the fuck out of it.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:57:20 AM EDT
So, that's like, interesting.

What happens when/if it spills over to Israel?

What a fucking mess.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:58:51 AM EDT
IMO that is probably one of the best things that could happen.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:58:53 AM EDT
Hopefully this results in a lot of dead ISIS animals.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:59:09 AM EDT
That is gonna be messy.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:01:18 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By sawgunner73:


Just not the Kurds.....
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Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.


Just not the Kurds.....


this. they are the only people other than the Jews in that area that are worth a shit.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:07:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:


Should have booted Turkey from NATO a long time ago.
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Before the Berlin Wall debris was cleared away...

Fuck Turkey.  An independent and supported Kurdistan would have killed ISIS in the womb.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:13:23 AM EDT
We'll see..........talk is cheap.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:13:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

No, not the Kurds, I meant on the Turkish side and those daesch ISIS prick sides.
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.

Just not the Kurds.....

No, not the Kurds, I meant on the Turkish side and those daesch ISIS prick sides.

Toss is some effective Turkish airstrikes on Asad and it would be the fucktard trifecta: ISIS, Turkey and Asad all taking losses.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:17:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By tarfin:
Powder keg in 3...2...1....
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Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:19:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BangStick1:
I don't think the Russians are going to like that.
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Yesterday Putin doubled down on his support for Asad.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:25:36 AM EDT
How many US "trainers and advisers" are near the Kurdish Syrian front lines?  I'm assuming there's more than a few low profile and secret squirrel types bopping around.  I've noticed the goal posts for what exactly constitutes "boots on the ground" have been slipping lately, I could see the White House shining enough light on them and making them numerous enough to promote them to tripwire status - human shields preventing the Turks from going full retard on the Kurds.  It may be somebody's job to stand around in a Kurdish HQ and be publicly American enough to dissuade Turkish air strikes.  

It would probably be the most politically expedient thing for the administration to do, a relatively polite and easy (for the politicians, not the human shields) way to tell the Turks to go piss up a rope.

But that all assumes Obama wants the Kurds to continue being an effective ally....
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:26:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RDak:
We'll see..........talk is cheap.
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Agreed
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:26:35 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Just not the Kurds.....
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Originally Posted By sawgunner73:



Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.




Just not the Kurds.....
I like the Kurds WAY BETTER than I like Turkey.

 
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:26:56 AM EDT
Turkey's main opposition party leader warned on Tuesday any military intervention in Syria would spell disaster for Turkey and in comments clearly aimed at President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the country could not be "a plaything for your ambition".

Turkey
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:26:58 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:


How many US "trainers and advisers" are near the Kurdish Syrian front lines?  I'm assuming there's more than a few low profile and secret squirrel types bopping around.  I've noticed the goal posts for what exactly constitutes "boots on the ground" have been slipping lately, I could see the White House shining enough light on them and making them numerous enough to promote them to tripwire status - human shields preventing the Turks from going full retard on the Kurds.  It may be somebody's job to stand around in a Kurdish HQ and be publicly American enough to dissuade Turkish air strikes.  



It would probably be the most politically expedient thing for the administration to do, a relatively polite and easy (for the politicians, not the human shields) way to tell the Turks to go piss up a rope.



But that all assumes Obama wants the Kurds to continue being an effective ally....
View Quote




 
Interesting points.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:27:59 AM EDT
Yeah, this is all about the Kurds. Make no mistake about it.

Turkey is more concerned about the Kurds than anything else.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:28:51 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
I like the Kurds WAY BETTER than I like Turkey.  
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Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.


Just not the Kurds.....
I like the Kurds WAY BETTER than I like Turkey.  



We do about 30 billion a year in business with Turkey. And they border Russia, and they don't like Russians, and they have a fairly modern military.

Not saying its right or wrong, but we ain't deep-sixing our relationship with the Turks over Kurds.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:39:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2015 9:28:30 PM EDT by Paul]
[Personal attack removed and warning issued - Paul]
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:40:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
How many US "trainers and advisers" are near the Kurdish Syrian front lines?  I'm assuming there's more than a few low profile and secret squirrel types bopping around.  I've noticed the goal posts for what exactly constitutes "boots on the ground" have been slipping lately, I could see the White House shining enough light on them and making them numerous enough to promote them to tripwire status - human shields preventing the Turks from going full retard on the Kurds.  It may be somebody's job to stand around in a Kurdish HQ and be publicly American enough to dissuade Turkish air strikes.  

It would probably be the most politically expedient thing for the administration to do, a relatively polite and easy (for the politicians, not the human shields) way to tell the Turks to go piss up a rope.

But that all assumes Obama wants the Kurds to continue being an effective ally....
View Quote

Has this administration ever really been concerned/interested in the Kurds?

Erdogan was Obama's best buddy after Morsi went down, until he decided Tehran should have nukes.

I think the administration's priorities are a "nuclear deal" with Iran, anything else is just a potential road block to that train wreck.

Sadly, I think Iran is telling Obama/Jarrett/Rice what they want done - and they're doing it.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:45:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Warhawk:
What was Obama's golf score today?
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666

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:55:17 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Alex_F:


So, that's like, interesting.



What happens when/if it spills over to Israel?



What a fucking mess.



View Quote




Well, Turkey isn't going to make any meaningful moves into Syria, so its a moot point.  We'll have forgotten this thread in a week.  I'm so sure of this, I'll put my money where my mouth is.  If I'm wrong, I'll send you a 5 round AR mag that won't feed if you load it with more than 3 rounds.  You pay shipping.



 

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:02:58 AM EDT
The case for intervention in Syria sounds just like the case for intervention in Iraq.  

The invasion of Iraq turned out so well, so let's try it again in Syria!  What could possibly go wrong...
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:11:00 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RECONSIX:


666

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Originally Posted By RECONSIX:
Originally Posted By Warhawk:
What was Obama's golf score today?


666



Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:20:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
I know it's popular here to cheer on the Kurds, because let's face it: in Iraq and Syria they are the good guys, but to the Turks... They are a combination of illegal aliens and the free shit army. They take advantage of the Turks' system and constantly play the game of "we're victims so you have to let us do what we want."

The Turks want them out like we want the illegals out.

That said, we should have let Turkey "handle" this entire region a long time ago. Their president is basically an Obama so it might not have happened, but their military leadership is good people who have an interest in keeping shit calm around them.
View Quote




What the fuck are you talking about?
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:23:03 AM EDT
Turkey doesn't give a crap about ISIS. Hell, they've been actively supporting them.

This move is to cut off the Kurds and prevent an independent Kurdish state. Screw Erdogan, that ISIS loving scumbag
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:23:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SilentType:
Yeah, this is all about the Kurds. Make no mistake about it.

Turkey is more concerned about the Kurds than anything else.

View Quote


It is also about the regime, he hates Assad and wants to see a Muslim Brotherhood government in Syria. This is mainly cover for hitting regime targets.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 11:24:36 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tomislav:



We do about 30 billion a year in business with Turkey. And they border Russia, and they don't like Russians, and they have a fairly modern military.

Not saying its right or wrong, but we ain't deep-sixing our relationship with the Turks over Kurds.
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Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.


Just not the Kurds.....
I like the Kurds WAY BETTER than I like Turkey.  



We do about 30 billion a year in business with Turkey. And they border Russia, and they don't like Russians, and they have a fairly modern military.

Not saying its right or wrong, but we ain't deep-sixing our relationship with the Turks over Kurds.


Turkey & Russia are going to lay pipe together.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:22:17 PM EDT
I find this ironic because Turkey is the one who created ISIS in the first place.

Why?  Because they were trying to disrupt the Kurds so they don't get an independent state.

I say that at this point we recognize Kurdistan, all of it, including the Turkish part, as an independent country, it's not like the Turks are an ally anymore anyway.  Then give the Kurds, the only people in the region other than the Israelis who actually appreciate freedom and democracy and have balls, all the foreign aid, economic and military they need to establish their state and kick ISIS's and Turkey's ass.

Can we expell Turkey from NATO?

Everything I have heard to date says the Kurds are good people and pro American and the Peshmerga are brave fighters, the Turks?  Not so much.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:31:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By S_A_C:
I find this ironic because Turkey is the one who created ISIS in the first place.

Why?  Because they were trying to disrupt the Kurds so they don't get an independent state.

I say that at this point we recognize Kurdistan, all of it, including the Turkish part, as an independent country, it's not like the Turks are an ally anymore anyway.  Then give the Kurds, the only people in the region other than the Israelis who actually appreciate freedom and democracy and have balls, all the foreign aid, economic and military they need to establish their state and kick ISIS's and Turkey's ass.

Can we expell Turkey from NATO?

Everything I have heard to date says the Kurds are good people and pro American and the Peshmerga are brave fighters, the Turks?  Not so much.
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Yeah, fuck the Assyrians, right?

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:35:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:


Yeah, fuck the Assyrians, right?

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Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Originally Posted By S_A_C:
I find this ironic because Turkey is the one who created ISIS in the first place.

Why?  Because they were trying to disrupt the Kurds so they don't get an independent state.

I say that at this point we recognize Kurdistan, all of it, including the Turkish part, as an independent country, it's not like the Turks are an ally anymore anyway.  Then give the Kurds, the only people in the region other than the Israelis who actually appreciate freedom and democracy and have balls, all the foreign aid, economic and military they need to establish their state and kick ISIS's and Turkey's ass.

Can we expell Turkey from NATO?

Everything I have heard to date says the Kurds are good people and pro American and the Peshmerga are brave fighters, the Turks?  Not so much.


Yeah, fuck the Assyrians, right?



Dude, save yourself the headache. Some of these people didn't realize until a couple years ago that non-Arab non-Muslims lived in the Middle East. They are the descendants of the jackass Crusaders who slaughters thousands of Christians in Jerusalem thinking they were Saracens, because they looked funny and talked funny. Ignorance seems to be a genetic disorder.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:52:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967:


No, not the Kurds, I meant on the Turkish side and those daesch ISIS prick sides.
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.


Just not the Kurds.....


No, not the Kurds, I meant on the Turkish side and those daesch ISIS prick sides.


Erdogan is sympathetic to the ISIL cause. This is to screw with the Kurds and Assad. Erdogan is all down with the MB cause.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 12:59:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By nobodyg17:
So they are fighting to stop ISIL but they say this:

The aim is to establish a buffer zone for refugees and against Isil, but Mr Erdogan has also suggested that the main target of the intervention, if it goes ahead,

What's wrong with the Kurds?
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Originally Posted By nobodyg17:
So they are fighting to stop ISIL but they say this:

The aim is to establish a buffer zone for refugees and against Isil, but Mr Erdogan has also suggested that the main target of the intervention, if it goes ahead,
will be to prevent the emergence of a Kurdish state on Turkey’s doorstep.


What's wrong with the Kurds?


Ethnic identity group going way back. Kurds are a demographic that is at odds with the other regional players. Iranians don't like them. When Iraq existed as a larger country, they didn't like them. Erdogan/ Turkey doesn't like them. They don't want to see an independent Kurdish state. Saddam gassed them several times during the Iran-Iraq war and the 1st Iraq war.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:01:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AA717driver:


The terrorists would be repulsed then the State Police would be ordered in to disarm and arrest those who routed the terrorists.

Tell me I'm wrong.

TC
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Originally Posted By AA717driver:
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret:

How does this happen?

If a small group of decently equipped bit not well trained terrorists tried to take over a city of 60,000 in the USA, how would that end?


The terrorists would be repulsed then the State Police would be ordered in to disarm and arrest those who routed the terrorists.

Tell me I'm wrong.

TC


Domestic terrorism interfering with Progressivism (Obama style).
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:02:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By steinhab:


Dude, save yourself the headache. Some of these people didn't realize until a couple years ago that non-Arab non-Muslims lived in the Middle East. They are the descendants of the jackass Crusaders who slaughters thousands of Christians in Jerusalem thinking they were Saracens, because they looked funny and talked funny. Ignorance seems to be a genetic disorder.
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Originally Posted By steinhab:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Originally Posted By S_A_C:
I find this ironic because Turkey is the one who created ISIS in the first place.

Why?  Because they were trying to disrupt the Kurds so they don't get an independent state.

I say that at this point we recognize Kurdistan, all of it, including the Turkish part, as an independent country, it's not like the Turks are an ally anymore anyway.  Then give the Kurds, the only people in the region other than the Israelis who actually appreciate freedom and democracy and have balls, all the foreign aid, economic and military they need to establish their state and kick ISIS's and Turkey's ass.

Can we expell Turkey from NATO?

Everything I have heard to date says the Kurds are good people and pro American and the Peshmerga are brave fighters, the Turks?  Not so much.


Yeah, fuck the Assyrians, right?



Dude, save yourself the headache. Some of these people didn't realize until a couple years ago that non-Arab non-Muslims lived in the Middle East. They are the descendants of the jackass Crusaders who slaughters thousands of Christians in Jerusalem thinking they were Saracens, because they looked funny and talked funny. Ignorance seems to be a genetic disorder.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:06:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hellmann9655:



IIRC their president had all of the pro-western generals fired or arrested
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Originally Posted By hellmann9655:
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
but their military leadership is good people who have an interest in keeping shit calm around them.



IIRC their president had all of the pro-western generals fired or arrested



Erdogan is not a Secularist. He's big on the idea of a new Caliphate. Big time fan of Muslim Brotherhood. He gives MB fighters refuge in his country and supplies are run through Turkey to FSA/ ISIL factions. wants a return to the Ottoman Empire days.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:09:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By M4:

  Interesting points.
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Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
How many US "trainers and advisers" are near the Kurdish Syrian front lines?  I'm assuming there's more than a few low profile and secret squirrel types bopping around.  I've noticed the goal posts for what exactly constitutes "boots on the ground" have been slipping lately, I could see the White House shining enough light on them and making them numerous enough to promote them to tripwire status - human shields preventing the Turks from going full retard on the Kurds.  It may be somebody's job to stand around in a Kurdish HQ and be publicly American enough to dissuade Turkish air strikes.  

It would probably be the most politically expedient thing for the administration to do, a relatively polite and easy (for the politicians, not the human shields) way to tell the Turks to go piss up a rope.

But that all assumes Obama wants the Kurds to continue being an effective ally....

  Interesting points.



Erdogan and Obama are BFF.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:12:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
The case for intervention in Syria sounds just like the case for intervention in Iraq.  
The invasion of Iraq turned out so well, so let's try it again in Syria!  What could possibly go wrong...
View Quote


If Syria exists for three more months it will be a miracle.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:15:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BangStick1:
I don't think the Russians are going to like that.



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And they'll do what, exactly?
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:15:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Warhawk:
What was Obama's golf score today?
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Zero........
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:16:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Warhawk:
What was Obama's golf score today?
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You and Interstate 40 are the only good things to ever come out of Arkansas.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:16:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2015 1:46:04 PM EDT by Rustler]

I obviously don't understand the situation over there enough to comment.




I just want ISIS dead.  I hope the Kurds are okay though.







 
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:21:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Kind of sucks that their motivation is basically to fuck the Kurds.
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That's their sole reason. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 1:26:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tomislav:



We do about 30 billion a year in business with Turkey. And they border Russia, and they don't like Russians, and they have a fairly modern military.

Not saying its right or wrong, but we ain't deep-sixing our relationship with the Turks over Kurds.
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Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Here's hoping for massive casualties. On both sides.


Just not the Kurds.....
I like the Kurds WAY BETTER than I like Turkey.  



We do about 30 billion a year in business with Turkey. And they border Russia, and they don't like Russians, and they have a fairly modern military.

Not saying its right or wrong, but we ain't deep-sixing our relationship with the Turks over Kurds.


With the way O has been juicing on Iran & Putin, I wouldn't put it past him
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