Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You actually stop for those people? Just walk poast them dude. SGatr15 +1 I completely ignore the receipt checkers.  I have already paid for the goods, the transaction is complete.  They have no right, at all, to inspect my person or my cart. I don't know about your state but many states have a "shopkeeper's privilege" that allow them to do exactly that.

Not in MY state...and I sure would like to see which states do!


Sgatr15

Quoted: I don't know about your state but many states have a "shopkeeper's privilege" that allow them to do exactly that.

The "shopkeeper's privilege" is usually understood to be a merchant's privilege to detain (actually to arrest) a thief without being subject to a false arrest claim, provided there is probable cause to believe that a theft has occurred. Walking out the door with merchandise isn't PC for anything. I doubt very seriously that there is a law anywhere in the US giving merchants the right to detain and search people without probable cause, simply as part of their loss-prevention protocol.

Florida has a statute that essentially says that if the door beeper goes off, there is probable cause to detain for investigation, and the merchant is immune from suit for the detention. I wonder what will happen (or did happen) the first time somebody is detained because of a defective system or a cashier's negligent failure to deactivate the device in a customer's purchase.

Quoted: Isn't the REAL reason to keep you from putting your stuff in the car, walking back in with the receipt, and walking out with another one?

I'd agree - but why not just have the cashier highlight it them?  It even saves you the cost of an employee.

Alright, so I work at a range(rifle/shotgun/archery)  at a Boy Scout Summer Camp, one night some of my buddy's and I ran out to a certain large retailer of various goods.... to get supplies for all the program areas, we had rock salt, a lot of sporting goods stuff, general food items, paint, matches, knives, just a ton of things(some cd's and games too) we were dressed in our work clothes and we separated the items for program and the other items and paid for them separately, because we used the tax exempt card for the program supplies. No problem, smiles all around, didn't ID us for some of the sporting goods, the spray paint, or the lighters(it's a policy to ID for lighters I guess?) We got the have a nice day sir kinda thing, it was rather late at night(around 11:30).  About two weeks later, we make a similar close to midnight run for a plethora of supplies. We get a lot of the same things, this time we are wearing "civies" and probably looked like a bunch of punks. We all got ID'd for EVERYTHING, and they gave my out of state co-worker a really hard time about his(lighters, paint, sporting goods stuff, etc). They asked us why some of it was tax-exempt and the rest wasn't, we told them, they said they needed to take all of our contact information(they hadn't found the need the first time).  They then tried to tell us that we couldn't purchase spray paint, coleman fuel, lighters, and ammunition at the same time. I laughed at them and said they were wrong. We acted the same way both times, very polite, and we weren't goofing off at all. We all wear our hair short, I have some well kept facial hair, as well as others. All over 18, mostly around 20. We got through the hassle of the purchase, we were asked if we required an escort to our vehicles?????? We declined, and as we were just about to the merch detectors(the shoplifting deterant), This lady comes screaming at us, "HEY! YOU BOYS STOP RIGHT THERE DO NOT GO ANY FURTHER! So we stopped. I hoped maybe we forgot a bag, and she was trying to be nice and get it to us. But no, she said that our tax ID number didn't work, and that they had never heard of our organization(The Boy Scouts? Welcome to Earth bitch). They had no record of our particular camp after I pointed out on her computer that Boy Scouts of America were the same as Boy Scouts, go figure. So she said we would have to stay until the police arrived for trying to use a false tax exemption status(Honestly, tax exemption saved us.... $7!), and I set down my bag, told my friends to stay by the carts, pulled her to the side, and said, "Look Ma'am, you don't want to do this, this would be the worst mistake you ever made, think of the headlines... 'Store manager detains Boy Scouts for no reason, or Youth Camp Counselors questioned for false charges', it wouldn't look good, here(I pull out my wallet and show her the reciept from the last time), proof that we've used this tax id number before and that you had no problem then, I'd hate to have everyone think that you are making the accusation to us that we have tried to fool your company or the US Government, is that slander? It might be..." Her eyes lit up like road flares and she gave me the reciept back and said "you have a nice day Sir, I appologize for the trouble" Owned you dumb cunt.

Maybe this little storey will help -

A blonde decides to try horseback riding, even though she has had no prior lessons or experience. She mounts the horse, unassisted, and the horse immediately springs into motion. It gallops along at a steady and rhythmic pace, but the blonde begins to slip from the saddle. In terror, she grabs for the horse’s mane, but cannot seem to get a firm grip. She tries to throw her arms around the horse’s neck, but slides down the side of the horse anyway. The horse gallops along, seemingly impervious to its slipping rider. Finally, giving up her frail grip, the blonde attempts to leap away from the horse and throw herself to safety. Unfortunately, her foot becomes entangled in the stirrup; she is now at the mercy of the horse’s pounding hooves as her head is struck against the ground over and over. As her head is battered against the ground, she is mere moments away from unconsciousness when, to her great fortune...Bill, the WalMart greeter, sees her and unplugs the horse.




Here's how my wife left the last guy that wanted to look in her bag.

Quoted: Every time I shop some where big I need to show my receipt to make sure I didn't steal their shit. What fucking horse shit. It really starts to piss me off. You can go spend $700 and then be treated as if your not supporting their business instead stealing from them. Worst time, at one store I was flat out asked if I had stole any thing, my response "go fuck your self" than walked out.

olyarms,

Don't take it personal.  Shoplifting is a huge problem in many areas.  In fact, you and I pay for it with increased sales prices on merchandise.  Many stores are just trying to decrease shoplifting.  Don't feel like they're mistreating you.  In fact, if they can reduce shoplifting, they can reduce prices a little (a function of competition).  So they're really helping you, though you're inconvenienced for 10 seconds.

Their inability to control shoplifting in their store does not give them the right to illegal search and detention.  If they really think I'm going to pick something up to shoplift between the registers and the doors they should move the registers closer to the fucking doors, or remove merchandise from the area beyond the registers.  If they believe I snuck through the checkout line with unpaid merchandise, they need to better train their cashiers.  If they believe cashiers are shortringing their friends, they need a better hiring prescreen.  

In any case, their lack of attention to detail to any of the things mentioned above will not result in their accusing me of theft and searching my property.  As soon as I cross the register line, I am only on their property.  They can ask me to leave and it ends there.  Some snotnosed security kid grabs me, and he will pay the price, either through the return of escalation to physical force, or through an assault lawsuit.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How are you dressed and groomed? Walk in looking like a dirbag, expect to be treated like a dirtbag. Walk in looking like a million bucks, and you COULD steal stuff and nobody would look twice at you. CJ good point. Anyone out there own a suit and want to help me steal a canoe from Wallyworld? I'm in VA, wanna meet in MD and see if we can get two canoe's and a TV?

haha, my friend who lives about 1 minute from me went to walmart, put a computer in his cart (huge box of course) and fucking walked right out, no one asked him a thing, nor stopped him.  I think this was around 11-12 at night.  He still has the computer too.

Tagged.

Yes, this procedure annoys me.  And that does not mean I don't understand why it exists.

I've ben to the Wal-Mart in South Philly a few times, and you have to wait in line for 45 minutes usually, and then you have to wait in another line to show your receipt to the door guy right after you just waited for 45 minutes in the cashier line.  My cousin calls that store the "house of primates".

Quoted: The "shopkeeper's privilege" is usually understood to be a merchant's privilege to detain (actually to arrest) a thief without being subject to a false arrest claim, provided there is probable cause to believe that a theft has occurred. Walking out the door with merchandise isn't PC for anything. I doubt very seriously that there is a law anywhere in the US giving merchants the right to detain and search people without probable cause, simply as part of their loss-prevention protocol.

I would venture that a customer walking out while ignoring a request to see a receipt for merchandise equates to probable cause.  I think the court/jury is going to be much more sympathetic to a store than to a belligerent customer in this circumstance.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work at Costco where they famously check the receipts at the door. The store does this because we are not equipped with any of the fancy tagged items that alert alarms at the door. Checking the receipt is the only way to tell if someone leaving has paid for their items or are simply stealing them. Why don't we have the fancy alarms that sound if you're stealing?  To keep costs LOW. I can't speak for Wally World and Target but for those of you who "walk past" the checkers at Sam's or Costco, just remember my explanation. I fully understand WHY it's being done.  It's just that I don't care. No offense to you. +1.  Your store's problem is NOT my problem.  Find some other way of dealing with it.

The root of this argument is inconvenience.  Some of you would not want to pause for 30 seconds at the most for your receipt to be checked.  As a result, you would be willing to pay more per item for store surveillance as well as make a complete ass of yourself by becoming belligerent and vulgar with someone who is simply doing their job?

This really seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Quoted: Quoted: The "shopkeeper's privilege" is usually understood to be a merchant's privilege to detain (actually to arrest) a thief without being subject to a false arrest claim, provided there is probable cause to believe that a theft has occurred. Walking out the door with merchandise isn't PC for anything. I doubt very seriously that there is a law anywhere in the US giving merchants the right to detain and search people without probable cause, simply as part of their loss-prevention protocol. I would venture that a customer walking out while ignoring a request to see a receipt for merchandise equates to probable cause.

And you would be wrong.

Do your research, instead of guessing.

Quoted: Quoted: Isn't the REAL reason to keep you from putting your stuff in the car, walking back in with the receipt, and walking out with another one? I'd agree - but why not just have the cashier highlight it them?  It even saves you the cost of an employee.

This is the most sensible post yet.
The checker/cashier has already supposedly verified the contents and that I paid for it. This person is employed to do this. I am not employed to do this.
If they want me to verify my own purchases on my own time, they need to pay me.

Force me to stand around, without paying me, and they WILL be paying me.

Ignore those dipshits with the markers. And if they assault you take appropriate action.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How are you dressed and groomed? Walk in looking like a dirbag, expect to be treated like a dirtbag. Walk in looking like a million bucks, and you COULD steal stuff and nobody would look twice at you. CJ good point. Anyone out there own a suit and want to help me steal a canoe from Wallyworld? I'm in VA, wanna meet in MD and see if we can get two canoe's and a TV? haha, my friend who lives about 1 minute from me went to walmart, put a computer in his cart (huge box of course) and fucking walked right out, no one asked him a thing, nor stopped him.  I think this was around 11-12 at night.  He still has the computer too.

Goddam people like you and your "friend" are the reason for all the actions taken by the retailers mentioned on this thread.

Civilians...I just 'tin' my way in and out of life.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work at Costco where they famously check the receipts at the door. The store does this because we are not equipped with any of the fancy tagged items that alert alarms at the door. Checking the receipt is the only way to tell if someone leaving has paid for their items or are simply stealing them. Why don't we have the fancy alarms that sound if you're stealing?  To keep costs LOW. I can't speak for Wally World and Target but for those of you who "walk past" the checkers at Sam's or Costco, just remember my explanation. I fully understand WHY it's being done.  It's just that I don't care. No offense to you. +1.  Your store's problem is NOT my problem.  Find some other way of dealing with it. The root of this argument is inconvenience.  Some of you would not want to pause for 30 seconds at the most for your receipt to be checked.  As a result, you would be willing to pay more per item for store surveillance as well as make a complete ass of yourself by becoming belligerent and vulgar with someone who is simply doing their job? This really seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Quit already with the bullshit line that these actions keep prices low.  I've been around corporate America long enough to know that cost savings go STRAIGHT to the profit line, not my wallet.

I will not cede my right to be free from intrusion, no matter how "inconvenient" it may appear.

I will also not cede my superiority by becoming belligerent, regardless of how hard it is to remain calm.  

Knowing the facts of law are on my side, I can easily afford some extra time ONE TIME to own any asshole clerk/checker/security stooge/manager that wants to challenge me.

You are a sheeple: go along to get along.

Quoted: Civilians...I just 'tin' my way in and out of life.

There are places where your badge won't help you.

I think the next time I get a black receipt checker I'm going to yell out "are you stopping me because I'm white!"

I had one store (a Home Depot) try not to take a return because the receipt didn't have a check mark on it.  If you're going to ignore them and need to return something, at least mark the receipt somehow before you go back.

Quoted: And you would be wrong. Do your research, instead of guessing.

I sense you like to give out homework.  Frustrated teacher complex?

Try this at the airport.....keyboard commandoes....

Quoted: Their inability to control shoplifting in their store does not give them the right to illegal search and detention.  If they really think I'm going to pick something up to shoplift between the registers and the doors they should move the registers closer to the fucking doors, or remove merchandise from the area beyond the registers.  If they believe I snuck through the checkout line with unpaid merchandise, they need to better train their cashiers.  If they believe cashiers are shortringing their friends, they need a better hiring prescreen.   In any case, their lack of attention to detail to any of the things mentioned above will not result in their accusing me of theft and searching my property.  As soon as I cross the register line, I am only on their property.  They can ask me to leave and it ends there.  Some snotnosed security kid grabs me, and he will pay the price, either through the return of escalation to physical force, or through an assault lawsuit.

Fast351,

What is illegal about an employee asking to see a receipt?  Why be such a prick about it?  They aren't infringing on your rights.  They're running a business, and whether you like it or not, asking to see a receipt as you leave is a valid and legal business practice.  Is it illegal for businesses to insert that little strip that sets off alarms?  Why is it illegal then for them to ask for a receipt?

A few days ago I bought the Star Wars trilogy from Walmart.  As I was leaving the package set off an alarm, and a lady asked to see my receipt for it.  No big deal.  I show the receipt, she takes a quick look, and I'm on my way.  It only cost a few seconds of my time.  There was no invasion of privacy or seizure.  Otherwise, how on earth would the law ever prosecute shoplifters if every time the business checked on a likely suspect was illegal search and seizure?  Oh brother.

them:
"Can I see your reciept sir?"

me:
"Sure, right after you eat the peanuts out of my shit"

Quoted: Quoted: And you would be wrong. Do your research, instead of guessing. I sense you like to give out homework.  Frustrated teacher complex?

Ad hominems come out when you have nothing left to say.

POWN3D!

Quoted: Try this at the airport.....keyboard commandoes....

Are you unable to distinguish situations where your right and expectation of privacy is reduced by law?

It's a hassel, so I keep my reciept handy and let them look all they want.

One time at Wally World an exit door lady checked my bag and then told me that she wanted to check the "bulge" under my shirt. I told her no, that I was not going to show what I had. She started making noise about it, so I offered to go to the corner away from everyone at the checkout counters. She refused, so lifted up my shirt so she (and everyone else in line) could see my Glock 23 and the spare magazine.
She freaked and started to sputter nonsense. By this time a manager showed up, I told him what happened, what I offered to do.
He apologized to me and told me that he would take care of it.
I now make it a point to make sure that I see her as I exit the store if she is working.

Local Wal-Mart never bugs me. Nobody even says anything when I buy ammo at the sporting goods counter and walk right past the cashiers with it (in a Wal-Mart bag).

I was at Home Despot yesterday buying a new front door, bunch of tools and other stuff. I was going out the door when the alarm went off. The white girl in dreadlocks just told me to "go ahead.The alarm does that"

Quoted: Quoted: Their inability to control shoplifting in their store does not give them the right to illegal search and detention.  If they really think I'm going to pick something up to shoplift between the registers and the doors they should move the registers closer to the fucking doors, or remove merchandise from the area beyond the registers.  If they believe I snuck through the checkout line with unpaid merchandise, they need to better train their cashiers.  If they believe cashiers are shortringing their friends, they need a better hiring prescreen.   In any case, their lack of attention to detail to any of the things mentioned above will not result in their accusing me of theft and searching my property.  As soon as I cross the register line, I am only on their property.  They can ask me to leave and it ends there.  Some snotnosed security kid grabs me, and he will pay the price, either through the return of escalation to physical force, or through an assault lawsuit. Fast351, What is illegal about an employee asking to see a receipt?  Why be such a prick about it?  They aren't infringing on your rights.  They're running a business, and whether you like it or not, asking to see a receipt as you leave is a valid and legal business practice.  Is it illegal for businesses to insert that little strip that sets off alarms?  Why is it illegal then for them to ask for a receipt? A few days ago I bought the Star Wars trilogy from Walmart.  As I was leaving the package set off an alarm, and a lady asked to see my receipt for it.  No big deal.  I show the receipt, she takes a quick look, and I'm on my way.  It only cost a few seconds of my time.  There was no invasion of privacy or seizure.  Otherwise, how on earth would the law ever prosecute shoplifters if every time the business checked on a likely suspect was illegal search and seizure?  Oh brother.

It's rather quite simple.  Businesses have NO legal standing to FORCE you to comply with their request to see your receipt as you walk out the door.

The ONLY execption is if PROBABLE CAUSE of shoplifting exists.  There are six criteria that are virtually universal for that PC to exist, and they have been explained here already.  On top of that, in SOME states (FL being one) the tag alarm is also considered PC.

Again, compliance to a request to show a receipt is voluntary.  If PC for shoplifiting existed, you wouldn't be asked for the receipt like everyone else.  A security employee would be approaching you with a very specific request.

I will continue to refuse to comply.  

Quoted: Try this at the airport.....keyboard commandoes....

WTF?


Talking about comparing apples to oranges!

DAMN!

Sgtar15

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work at Costco where they famously check the receipts at the door. The store does this because we are not equipped with any of the fancy tagged items that alert alarms at the door. Checking the receipt is the only way to tell if someone leaving has paid for their items or are simply stealing them. Why don't we have the fancy alarms that sound if you're stealing?  To keep costs LOW. I can't speak for Wally World and Target but for those of you who "walk past" the checkers at Sam's or Costco, just remember my explanation. I fully understand WHY it's being done.  It's just that I don't care. No offense to you. +1.  Your store's problem is NOT my problem.  Find some other way of dealing with it. The root of this argument is inconvenience.  Some of you would not want to pause for 30 seconds at the most for your receipt to be checked.  As a result, you would be willing to pay more per item for store surveillance as well as make a complete ass of yourself by becoming belligerent and vulgar with someone who is simply doing their job? This really seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Its MY right - I don't have to do a damn thing to convenience the store.  If that (wishful) 30 seconds turns into more time because I'm exercising my personal freedoms - well then that's fine. I won't give in and it doesn't take belligerency to react.  If you've been paying attention to this thread you'd notice that it's the STORE employees becoming belligerent first.

I am basing my views on my own personal experiences when I am assigned to check receipts.

To those who would say large ($300) orders cannot be thoroughly checked; you're right.  Only if I had x-ray eyes could I do that.  In lieu of x-ray specs, I simply spot check for a few items to see if the receipt matches the order.  This takes all of 10 seconds, including greetings and goodbyes.

In the case of Costco, we mark the receipt so that it cannot be used again.  Otherwise, someone COULD return the same day with the same receipt on a TV for example and get a "TWO-FER".  When people steal, it raises prices for EVERYONE.

Ironically, the checking of the receipts is not an indictment of the customer as a criminal.  More often than not, we look for mistakes on the part of cashier who is more likely to have "Double-scanned" something.  The people stopped at the door with such mistakes made are glad that it was remedied on the spot.

I agree that a customer shopping at a store is in no way obliged to "convenience" the store.  In a civilized society, however, there are reasonable restirctions placed on the consumer.  

We ask that you enter through the door marked ENTRANCE.

We ask that you exit through the door marked EXIT.

We ask that you wear a shirt and shoes.

And finally, we ask that you simply present the receipt for items purchased.  I have thoroughly evaluated this perspective and can see that this in most cases is the easiest and simplest way to deter theft and keeps costs low.

If any of you guys can think of a way that can mutually benefit both the store and the customer, I will be glad to hear it.  Hell, I'll even pass it on to my store's corporate offices.  

there are reasonable restirctions placed on the consumer.

And the more you put on the customer the more customers you will lose.

Norstroms doesn't do this do they?


Sgatr15

Quoted: In a civilized society, however, there are reasonable restirctions placed on the consumer.   We ask that you enter through the door marked ENTRANCE. We ask that you exit through the door marked EXIT. We ask that you wear a shirt and shoes. And finally, we ask that you simply present the receipt for items purchased.  I have thoroughly evaluated this perspective and can see that this in most cases is the easiest and simplest way to deter theft and keeps costs low.

You can ask all you want.  You can even keep someone out if they don't comply with your dress code or other "restrictions" because the law gives you that ability.

But until the law gives you the ability to make me comply with your request to prove that my merchandise belongs to me WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE OF A CRIME, your request will remain ignored.

That is all.

In God we trust.
All others we monitor.

Anybody want to give me a constitutional legal reason why it is different?

Quoted: Anybody want to give me a constitutional legal reason why it is different?

The law specifies when a detention can be legally made, both by law enforcement officers and by those who are not.

Right now it does not say: you may detain a person for failing to provide a sale receipt on demand without probable cause.

That clear enough?

Does it say you can feel up my girlfriend without reasonable cause?
"The law says" you can't walk a duck on a leash in downtown KC, does that make it right?
I am amazed at the chest beating of someone objecting when asked to see a receipt and then agreeing with virtual strip searches.

If you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't object to being searched.
There is nothing to see here, move along.
Officer friendly is here to protect you.
Pay no attention to then man behind the curtain.
Move along.......
move along......
And there goes just a bit more of your personal freedoms and another step into everyday regulation of your life.
I think I will start saying no a bit more often now.

Lmao, how did one of my rants make it this far

I guess I AM NOT THE ONLY PISSED off customer

Quoted: Does it say you can feel up my girlfriend without reasonable cause? "The law says" you can't walk a duck on a leash in downtown KC, does that make it right? I am amazed at the chest beating of someone objecting when asked to see a receipt and then agreeing with virtual strip searches.

You can submit to whatever you want to.  I don't think I need to explain myself any further.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I work at Costco where they famously check the receipts at the door. The store does this because we are not equipped with any of the fancy tagged items that alert alarms at the door. Checking the receipt is the only way to tell if someone leaving has paid for their items or are simply stealing them. Why don't we have the fancy alarms that sound if you're stealing?  To keep costs LOW. I can't speak for Wally World and Target but for those of you who "walk past" the checkers at Sam's or Costco, just remember my explanation. I fully understand WHY it's being done.  It's just that I don't care. No offense to you. +1.  Your store's problem is NOT my problem.  Find some other way of dealing with it. The root of this argument is inconvenience.  Some of you would not want to pause for 30 seconds at the most for your receipt to be checked.  As a result, you would be willing to pay more per item for store surveillance as well as make a complete ass of yourself by becoming belligerent and vulgar with someone who is simply doing their job? This really seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It is very easy just to pull out the receipt.  Why make a big deal about it?

Quoted: there are reasonable restirctions placed on the consumer. And the more you put on the customer the more customers you will lose. Norstroms doesn't do this do they? Sgatr15

Damn Sarge, I bet you wear a "FREE WINONA" shirt and love paying those NORDSTROMS prices while they watch you with hi-res cameras so you're privacy is not infringed !

Quoted: Don't take it personal.  Shoplifting is a huge problem in many areas.  In fact, you and I pay for it with increased sales prices on merchandise.  Many stores are just trying to decrease shoplifting.  Don't feel like they're mistreating you.  In fact, if they can reduce shoplifting, they can reduce prices a little (a function of competition).  So they're really helping you, though you're inconvenienced for 10 seconds.

Pffffffft!  Someone other than me is stealing from. That is not my problem, not to the tune of 10 seconds, or even one second. Why is it that I never see storewide X% discounts after they have a month of light shrinkage? They are protecting their profits, not my wallet, and my obligation to protect their profits begins and ends with paying for what I want from them.

Quoted: Ad hominems come out when you have nothing left to say. POWN3D!

Or when you are confronted by Everyman of the Internet who thinks he knows everything.

Why don't you take a look at NY General Business Law section 218 and the related casenotes and think about it again in light of what I said.

crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm

crimedoctor.com/shoplifting2.htm