Quoted: Given the choice, I would LOVE to be able to buy the trucks and especially the Land Cruisers that the rest of the world gets. The Tacomas with the diesel and solid axle are tough trucks. The land cruisers are the real deal, not the pussyfied country club wagons they sell here.

You mean like this pussified LC100?



or this one?



Neither in th US btw, wonder why they didnt go 70 series

Not sure why some folx think the 100/105 series is pussified

Luck
Alac

Toyota hands down over chevy. 90k on my 93 suburban and 6 trans, 3 radiators, 2 a/c compressors, 8 batteries and on and on.

Bought 03 Toyota for wife moving out of her 83 volvo and she loves it. 8 cyl kicks butt on the road.

No experience with 4wd aspect, but sad to say, will never own another chevy and probably never another american car/truck.

DMOS

had i remembered to put it in 4 low, i wouldnt have had that problem. damn hangovers.

you were literally spinning your wheels and you know it!!!!!  

beer money already being saved for when you get down here.................by then i should have several new, evil ARs

rock on with the beer hording!! going to range now.

Quoted: Reliability and ruggedness offroad? TOYOTA They're small and they're not great haulers.. but nothing else comes close in reliability and ruggedness. Watch this video of a Car and driver type TV show trying to kill an old toyota hilux through abuse. www.funpedia.net/clips/165.zip It's a pretty cool video.  They submerge it in the ocean, drop it, crash it, and everything else and it still runs.

Great video!!

My vote goes to Toyota.  I have a '85 pickup with 228k miles, and an 95 tacoma with 120k miles.  Both have 32" tires. I use them on the fire roads up here, i work as a forester, so they are offroad everyday. Very few problems with both of them, I can't think of anything other than normal replacement, brakes, tires, shocks, etc. oh, a alternator and a starter on the '85

Quoted: Quoted: Reliability and ruggedness offroad? TOYOTA They're small and they're not great haulers.. but nothing else comes close in reliability and ruggedness. Watch this video of a Car and driver type TV show trying to kill an old toyota hilux through abuse. www.funpedia.net/clips/165.zip It's a pretty cool video.  They submerge it in the ocean, drop it, crash it, and everything else and it still runs.   Great video!!

Thanks.  

I love torture tests!  

Quoted: Toyota wins. No need for further discussion.

Amen.

Don't even bother with LandRover. Biggest POS on the planet.

ETA: Isuzu's are good, too...

Quoted: Quoted: Given the choice, I would LOVE to be able to buy the trucks and especially the Land Cruisers that the rest of the world gets. The Tacomas with the diesel and solid axle are tough trucks. The land cruisers are the real deal, not the pussyfied country club wagons they sell here. You mean like this pussified LC100? www.brian894x4.com/LC100desertpatrol2.jpg or this one? www.arctictrucks.is/ArcticTrucks/uploads/imageGallery/Images/Jeppabreytingar/38%20lc100% Neither in th US btw, wonder why they didnt go 70 series Not sure why some folx think the 100/105 series is pussified Luck Alac

Well, yes actually.
I know it looks good all painted and armed up and all,  but out of the many I see regularly only two get some actual off road use and both have had major issues with the new IFS front end.
The solid axle versions don't have these issues.  The ONLY reason they use IFS on production 4x4s is to soften the ride for candy assed American soccer moms.
My biggest complaint with the Land Cruisers is price. Since the late 80s and early 90s they have been marketing them to the upscale yuppy types and raising the price accordingly.   I just PDIed a new one last week and the sticker was $67,000.
LCs used to be the tough, affordable off road vehicle and in the rest of the world, especially Australia, it still is.

  Damn !  Sounds like a bunch of Ex-Rover owners.    I still love my Rover.  You got to be an enthusiast though.  These "POS'" are purpose built for off road.  They pretty much suck at everything else you would expect from a grocery getter.     All the nice little electronics and comfort features will fail.  If these are the things that are important to you, by all means, stay away.   Maintenance is expensive too if you're the type that runs to the dealership to change your oil.    They are very simple to work on.    Parts can be found cheap.   If you fear the wrench, stick with the Toyota.   Jeeps ? Please.   All the problems of the Rovers without the off road ability or the uniqueness.

An I aint no stinkin pussy English sportman preppy !  

What exactly was the issue with the IFS and how would the solid axle have solved it?

Absolutely right about the reasoning, but go take a look at Fords, GM etc. Its the marketplace. Even Rover is going IFS. Most 70 series Models in OZ cost more than top line Discos. Not what I would call cheap. All the 78s are more expensive than the lower tier 100s in OZ - and in the ballpark of the GXL V8.  The 78s cost a bit less than a base GX470 costs here - $40ish  - that doesnt seem like a bargain. Tough yep, affordable - not by your standards.

I just priced a LC (bought a GX470) and you're about $7k off on MSRP in the Midwest, pretty well equipped. Could have bought an '04 for $52k. You never see many newer vehicles wheeling - trail trucks are to an extent disposable, and why abuse a new truck?.

Huh I thought the issue with the price was the rising yen. Why Toyota has a new engine plant in WVA and are locating what production they can here, they are trying to lessen the impact of currency fluctuations. Then again maybe they are just arbitrarily trying to screw Americans.

Id prefer some $25k diesel troops, or even a MWB truck, but its not possible, anywhere. The 100s are very capable offroad even with the IFS. My first choice offroad? No - even a LFA 105 -mostly because of size. But certainly not pussified when compared to most vehicles.

Luck
Alac

Wow - you guys have owned them all?  I have mostly owned Fords.  I am very happy with the F-150.

Quoted: I can't speak for all land rovers, but the Discover that we have is a POS. The window mechanism has broken in both of the front windows, it's had transmission problems, brake problems, is currently having AC problems, has a shitty suspension, and drives like a yacht. All the electric work at least used to be done by Lucas, often referred to as Lucifer for their poor quality, but I don't know if they've improved or gotten worse since they were bought by Ford.

I have an 89 RR and an 03 Disco SE7, both of which have seen thier fair share of mud, snow, rocks and dirt and I agree with the Prince of Darkness comments for the RR. The Disco, on the other hand, has had no quality problems other than ABS sensor hiccups (finally fixed under warranty and recall). Granted, they aren't set up to do the ultimate rock bash, but I would put either of them up against any of the rabble that was listed for 4x4 outings.

BTW, I used to own a couple of FJ-40s in the Sierra Nevada foothills (you know, Rubicon?) so I think I'm somewhat qualified to pass judgement.

CW

Quoted: What exactly was the issue with the IFS and how would the solid axle have solved it? Absolutely right about the reasoning, but go take a look at Fords, GM etc. Its the marketplace. Even Rover is going IFS. Most 70 series Models in OZ cost more than top line Discos. Not what I would call cheap. All the 78s are more expensive than the lower tier 100s in OZ - and in the ballpark of the GXL V8.  The 78s cost a bit less than a base GX470 costs here - $40ish  - that doesnt seem like a bargain. Tough yep, affordable - not by your standards. I just priced a LC (bought a GX470) and you're about $7k off on MSRP in the Midwest, pretty well equipped. Could have bought an '04 for $52k. You never see many newer vehicles wheeling - trail trucks are to an extent disposable, and why abuse a new truck?. Huh I thought the issue with the price was the rising yen. Why Toyota has a new engine plant in WVA and are locating what production they can here, they are trying to lessen the impact of currency fluctuations. Then again maybe they are just arbitrarily trying to screw Americans. Id prefer some $25k diesel troops, or even a MWB truck, but its not possible, anywhere. The 100s are very capable offroad even with the IFS. My first choice offroad? No - even a LFA 105 -mostly because of size. But certainly not pussified when compared to most vehicles. Luck Alac

The issues with the IFS are ground clearance and durability of the parts.
The two guys that use them as 4x4s are both geologists and spend a lot of time in the rocky desert terrain and mountains in southern AZ.  Both of them are long time cuiser owners and both are seriously considering buying a 96/97 FJ-80 and rebuilding whatever is needed.
I have replaced lower A-arms, ball joints, axles and on one, a front carrier assy.  All with less than 30k miles.  Also have had trans issues and "creature comfort" issues with the sensetive electrical systems that don't hold up well being bounced around off road.
I can't recall ever having these issues with the solid axle LCs unless abuse or wrecks were involved.
As for IFS in general, I was not singling out Toyota, my thoughts are the same regarding domestics as well.  Thats why I still have my 1990 suburban.
IFS is just fine for the majority of people.
I have a friend who goes to Australia often, another geologist, and he brings back 4x4 magazines from there and I drool all over them.  
My wife wants a 97 FJ-80 bad and when the first kid goes to college she might just get it.
I'm going to buld up my old 81 FJ-40.  One of the few that were sold in the U.S> that year. Factory P.S., AC etc...
Having access to Toyota assets doesn't hurt either.
One tidbit for you, there is "talk" that since Jeep will be using a diesel soon that we MIGHT see the Toyota diesels in some models soon.

Stuff wasnt covered under warranty? Might be cheaper for them to convert to 105 - its a live front axle 100- the axles arent hard to get and its fairly straight forward. Personally I dont think it would be worth it. FWIW Christo Slee and quite a few other guys who run 100/LX470s dont seem to have these issues. You may have your friends get in touch with Christo at Slee Offroad.

For the money they spent on the LC100s they could have had BCB offroad build them a frame up new, Cummins powered, dual dana 60, NV4500 coil converted Series Land Rover. They'd have cash left over and never an issue again. Since its a professional cost, might be worth it.

Unless there are some changes in particulate regs, diesels in general are not going to fly. Even the Mercedes urea solution and particle traps dont seem promising. Currently diesels cant clear emissions in 5 states. Once low sulphur is available, Mercedes and others hope to meet the more stringent requirements going into effect. Hope is not a strategy, but I hope they can.

Luck
Alac

Quoted:   Damn !  Sounds like a bunch of Ex-Rover owners.    I still love my Rover.  You got to be an enthusiast though.  These "POS'" are purpose built for off road.  They pretty much suck at everything else you would expect from a grocery getter.     All the nice little electronics and comfort features will fail.  If these are the things that are important to you, by all means, stay away.   Maintenance is expensive too if you're the type that runs to the dealership to change your oil.    They are very simple to work on.    Parts can be found cheap.   If you fear the wrench, stick with the Toyota.   Jeeps ? Please.   All the problems of the Rovers without the off road ability or the uniqueness. An I aint no stinkin pussy English sportman preppy !

+1
I have a 95 Discovery and would not trade it for anything. Before the disco. I was driving a lifted 82 toyota. The rover WILL GO PLACES WHERE THAT TOY WOULD NOT. I live in Oregon and offroad all the time.
And the guy having probs with his disco. Go to discoweb.org lots of info there. And some cool Moab videos.

Quoted: Stuff wasnt covered under warranty? Might be cheaper for them to convert to 105 - its a live front axle 100- the axles arent hard to get and its fairly straight forward. Personally I dont think it would be worth it. FWIW Christo Slee and quite a few other guys who run 100/LX470s dont seem to have these issues. You may have your friends get in touch with Christo at Slee Offroad.

Yes, it was warranty.  One of them has looked into the conversion but really just doesn't want the hassle. They both like buying off the lot and not messing with them.  That may change though.

For the money they spent on the LC100s they could have had BCB offroad build them a frame up new, Cummins powered, dual dana 60, NV4500 coil converted Series Land Rover. They'd have cash left over and never an issue again. Since its a professional cost, might be worth it.

Again, for now, they are not heavy into major mods. They were used to just buying it and driving it.  One had discussed building the FJ-80 up but he really wasn't to happy with the notion.  I'm not sure about them writing it off as an expense but then I havn't discussed that with them.
That rig you described sounds great but not on my salary.

Unless there are some changes in particulate regs, diesels in general are not going to fly. Even the Mercedes urea solution and particle traps dont seem promising. Currently diesels cant clear emissions in 5 states. Once low sulphur is available, Mercedes and others hope to meet the more stringent requirements going into effect. Hope is not a strategy, but I hope they can. Luck Alac

Agreed on the diesels but there's always hope.
As for the 100 series mods, I really havn't looked into those either because I havn't had anyone asking for them.  I think I'll check out Slee and see what is available.

Toyota then Nissan then Land Rover then the American brands.

9 out of 10 people take a Toyota into the Aussie Outback.  Then its usually Nissan Patrols followed by Land Rovers.

The Aussie Outback is fuckin harsh, plus if your car fucks up and you arent in a convoy, there is a high chance you will die so reliability is DAMN important.